Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

[chotthee]

This is truly a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I do not believe there is a SINGLE Thai politician who could withstand a full investigative back ground check into either their qualification to hold the job, or why how they accumulated millions / billions of baht on a modest civil servant salary. So to have any Thai politician stand up and act self righteous by pointing an accusatory finger at some one else is truly moving into the theater of the absurd . I will assume there is someone behind this , as I am sure people at the Defence Ministry would just as soon drink coffee and decided what new tanks to buy, instead of trying to undermine a major political figure. Would be curious to know who that person is.....

Regarding this case who knows what really happened. This is the land of fake documents and political back stabbing, so I would not pin too much credibility into this affair. And as long as backgrounds are being checked, how about looking into PM Yingluck's " English degree" ?? I have met bar girls that never set foot in America or a university that speak better English than Yingluck.....

So Samak removed from PM for moonlighting as a cook is justified.

But Mark falsification of govt doc to get a job, we should close one eye.

Thank you.

Edited July 21, 2012 by chotthee

[nurofiend]

can you explain what that statemtent means please, i'm not so sure.

cheers.

If I misunderstood you when you said "it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics.", can you explain?

I understand that you consider him "the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics". I hope we're speaking English here.

we are, but my tongue was in my cheek.

i don't think that about abhisit for a second.

most people got it i reckon...

Sorry. As I said earlier I'm open to possibilities and one such possibility is someone not being smart enough to understand his own words...

obviously you mean you?

because i understood my own words very clearly... just because you couldn't understand it, don't try and put that on me.

maybe i'll just write a big massive sarcasm disclaimer especially for you, so you can be crystal clear and you won't have to put any thought process into what someone might actually mean when they post.

sound good? cool, because this is just petty and sad and arguing for the sake of it.

pm me next time if you are having difficulties understanding contexts, it will save thread space.

maybe you are just dependent on smileys to be sure of the point someone is getting at....

Edited July 21, 2012 by nurofiend

[carra]

so no opinion, not a shred of a negative response towards this... just divert, divert, divert.

is there a point in anyone on this forum trying to discuss anything political with you?

have you ever acknowledged any meaningful wrongdoing on your side?

i'm surprised people still interact in debates with you on here tbh, but that's just imho....

It is sort of ironic you spamming the word "divert", given that this 'Smear Abhisit' campaign is a diversionary tactic to avert the public's eyes away from the crimes of PTP themselves.

PTP crimes which are not only much more serious than draft-dodging, but are current 2012 crimes that have occured this year and are still occuring. Them throwing this 'diversion' 1986 non-story to their lapdogs and their baying hounds, is I'm sure enough diversion for simple minded loyal canines but it doesn't interest most educated human beings at all.

Good dog. Have a biscuit.

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Carra, despite you not wanting other people to bring up a red herring, you've brought up the yellow shirts, the sexual conduct of the PM and Samak. There's another thread on this subject which explicitly mentions that the Red Shirt-leader Jatuporn is trying to use this as a smear campaign. If you were to watch AsiaUpdate you'd understand. Even the defamation case against Abhisit, Jatuporn initiated it.

I ask again, how is this a smear campaign? someone has rightly raised an issue regarding the honesty of the former PM, and I believe falsifying the documents is a criminal offence, that is not a smear campaign, this is factual and the complainant has every right to raise this issue,

[Yunla]

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Giving this much attention to a minor issue is infact a diversionary tactic by PTP to take people's eyes away from the serious PTP crimes being committed on a regular basis this last year.

A 1986 paper on a draft dodge is not an important issue relating to the problems facing Thailand in 2012.

Its an issue, but not an important issue. Please refer to my first post to see what defines an "important issue" in the minds of Thailand reformists. Please notice that PTP have avoided tackling all of those important issues in favour of an obsessive 'absolve-Thaksin' policy, and now this draft dodge non-story that is only of interest to the most pettyminded.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yunla

[chotthee]

]

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Because it is not an important issue. I listed the important issues in my first post in the thread.

A 1986 paper on a draft doger is not an important issue. Its an issue, but not an important issue. Please refer to my first post to see what defines an "important issue" in the minds of Thailand reformists. Please notice that PTP have avoided tackling all of those important issues in favour of an obsessive 'absolve-Thaksin' policy, and now this draft dodge non-story that is only of interest to petty-minded keyboard wizards.

Please read my first post you might learn something.

So the law is not an important issue?

The law say farang cannot be PM. If we found a smart Farang (verey unlikely), he/she produce a fake citizen paper, we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

The law say all govt official need to go to army or have a Sor Dor 9 examption, he/she produce a fake Sor Dor 9 (which incidentally he managed to lost it twice, the real and the copy version), we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

[shunima]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Thought No.1: "That's all they could find in a year?"

Thought No.2 "How does skipping military services makes you a corrupted/dishonest/ person?"

I did (fooled them when I had to "join" them), and I have my reasons and I stand to them. The real problem here is that Thais have established a society unfit to admit failings/mistakes publicly. Now the talks and excuses and the blowing hot air will begin instead of him coming out, telling how it was followed by an apology if necessary.

[Payboy]

he/she produce a fake Sor Dor 9 (which incidentally he managed to lost it twice, the real and the copy version)

Not surprising, considering other things he's he lost at least twice?

[Yunla]

So the law is not an important issue?

The law say farang cannot be PM. If we found a smart Farang (verey unlikely), he/she produce a fake citizen paper, we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

The law say all govt official need to go to army or have a Sor Dor 9 examption, he/she produce a fake Sor Dor 9 (which incidentally he managed to lost it twice, the real and the copy version), we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

I said if he broke a minor draft law then it is an issue. But it is not an important issue. Because it is not.

What interests me more is the way these jack-in-a-box posts suddenly appear by magic when DP make any small infraction and yet they are never here to post on the majority of days when PTP are breaking privacy laws, UDHR agreements, conflict of interests, treason, etc. These far more serious PTP crimes which people do not pop up to comment on.

My point was not actually crime related, but government energies related. When the country is run by petty vindictive nobodies who do not work on infrastructure because they are more interested in twenty year old draft papers, then there is something very wrong.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yunla

[chotthee]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Thought No.1: "That's all they could find in a year?"

Thought No.2 "How does skipping military services makes you a corrupted/dishonest/ person?"

I did (fooled them when I had to "join" them), and I have my reasons and I stand to them. The real problem here is that Thais have established a society unfit to admit failings/mistakes publicly. Now the talks and excuses and the blowing hot air will begin instead of him coming out, telling how it was followed by an apology if necessary.

Skipping military services does NOT makes you a corrupted/dishonest/ person.

Producing FAKE DOCUMENT do.

Please don't change the subject.

It is like saying a PM do cooking show so what? But Samak is sack from his position by the THAI COURT right?

[AleG]

I'm just picturing a sad, withered piece of straw firmly gripped by an industrial vise...

[JurgenG]

This story is like starting a fight on the Titanic because somebody spilled your drink. It is missing the bigger iceberg-shaped picture.

The governments energies would be better spent on cross-spectrum infrastructure policies including water management and education, road safety, rice policy reform, custodial reform, anti corruption initiatives in the police, human rights work, equal rights work, health reform, fake medicines purge, human-trafficking crackdown, food standards agency reform, control of dangerous chemicals reform, etc.

But if you think the governments energies are better spent on smearing other politicans over a minor issue like a conscription form, then knock yourself out.

What it really shows is that Abhisit is a spoiled brat who gained his way in life by deception and by turning a blind eyes to illegal and dishonest practices, first to dodge the graft and to get his first job then a few years later to get the PM job he couldn't get by democratic means.

Even in his own party people have serious doubts about his real abilities and more than a few democrat blame him for the string of electoral defeat since he got his job as party leader.

For a functioning democracy, we need two strong party. PT is playing its part, now it's more that time for the democrats to look for a real leader to come back at their top.

Edited July 21, 2012 by JurgenG

[BirdsandBooze]

I think most of us already know and acknowledge that Thai politics doesn't' contain just a few bad apples but a whole rotting orchard.

[chotthee]

So the law is not an important issue?

The law say farang cannot be PM. If we found a smart Farang (verey unlikely), he/she produce a fake citizen paper, we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

The law say all govt official need to go to army or have a Sor Dor 9 examption, he/she produce a fake Sor Dor 9 (which incidentally he managed to lost it twice, the real and the copy version), we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

I said if he broke a minor draft law then it is an issue. But it is not an important issue. Because it is not.

What interests me more is the way these jack-in-a-box posts suddenly appear by magic when DP make any small infraction and yet they are never here to post on the majority of days when PTP are breaking privacy laws, UDHR agreements, conflict of interests, treason, etc. These far more serious PTP crimes which people do not pop up to comment on.

My point was not actually crime related, but government energies related. When the country is run by petty vindictive nobodies who do not work on infrastructure because they are more interested in twenty year old draft papers, then there is something very wrong.

I agree with you.

He broke a minor draft law then it is an issue. But it is not an important issue. Because it is not.

I agree with you.

Just like Clinton have sex with a student (above 18), it is not an issue.

But Clinton lie. he have to admit it at last, and people forgive him.

Mark should learn from Clinton, stop his lie, own up, and people will forgive him.

In fact I will love him more.

[Yunla]

For a functioning democracy, we need two strong party. PT is playing its part, now it's more that time for the democrats to look for a real leader to come back at their top.

PT is playing Thaksin's part. Who he is working for is another matter, but it certainly isn't the Thai people.

[shunima]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Thought No.1: "That's all they could find in a year?"

Thought No.2 "How does skipping military services makes you a corrupted/dishonest/ person?"

I did (fooled them when I had to "join" them), and I have my reasons and I stand to them. The real problem here is that Thais have established a society unfit to admit failings/mistakes publicly. Now the talks and excuses and the blowing hot air will begin instead of him coming out, telling how it was followed by an apology if necessary.

Skipping military services does NOT makes you a corrupted/dishonest/ person.

Producing FAKE DOCUMENT do.

Please don't change the subject.

It is like saying a PM do cooking show so what? But Samak is sack from his position by the THAI COURT right?

Did you sit next to him when he produced / printed it back then. These things usually come from the same sources that produce the originals and the game is called corruption. You pay that somebody is doing you a favour. That is not correct and as I said... the only problem is that most Thais don't have the guts to stand to their decisions made, especially the wrong ones. The incident is minor, the reaction from a former PM is a problem.

[chotthee]

This story is like starting a fight on the Titanic because somebody spilled your drink. It is missing the bigger iceberg-shaped picture.

The governments energies would be better spent on cross-spectrum infrastructure policies including water management and education, road safety, rice policy reform, custodial reform, anti corruption initiatives in the police, human rights work, equal rights work, health reform, fake medicines purge, human-trafficking crackdown, food standards agency reform, control of dangerous chemicals reform, etc.

But if you think the governments energies are better spent on smearing other politicans over a minor issue like a conscription form, then knock yourself out.

What it really shows is that Abhisit is a spoiled brat who gained his way in life by deception and by turning a blind eyes to illegal and dishonest practices, first to dodge the graft and to get his first job then a few years later to get the PM job he couldn't get by democratic means.

Even in his own party people have serious doubts about his real abilities and more than a few democrat blame him for the string of electoral defeat since he got his job as party leader.

For a functioning democracy, we need two strong party. PT is playing its part, now it's more that time for the democrats to look for a real leader to come back at their top.

Many of us bought the fake Sor Dor 9 forbetween 20,000 to 40,000 Baht.

This is common knowledge and practice.

Mark should stop this lie and own up that he, like million others, bought the fake cert.

he got away once when he was PM, as no one dare to investigate.

He is not getting away now, as no one would cover for him (being the opposition).

He should just come out straight and admit it.

(Like Clinton, about the sex with a student, or a US politician admit to smoking drug while a student)

Thai people understand the common practice, and will forgive him, as it is a minor issue.

However if one continue to lie, it will snow ball on you, and make the matter worst.

PS. i still love Clinton, forgave him.

[carra]

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Giving this much attention to a minor issue is infact a diversionary tactic by PTP to take people's eyes away from the serious PTP crimes being committed on a regular basis this last year.

A 1986 paper on a draft dodge is not an important issue relating to the problems facing Thailand in 2012.

Its an issue, but not an important issue. Please refer to my first post to see what defines an "important issue" in the minds of Thailand reformists. Please notice that PTP have avoided tackling all of those important issues in favour of an obsessive 'absolve-Thaksin' policy, and now this draft dodge non-story that is only of interest to the most pettyminded.

In your head it is a minor issue as it involves your beloved abhisit, I would have thought you would be more concerned that the leader of your favorite political party in thailand is getting found out more and more and the damage it can do to his own party, What will come out next?

But as long as he does not wear red anything he does is a minor issue, any complaint is an attempt to smear him, its the the citizenship issue all over again

On another issue, it seems whatever PTP do, the people still vote for them more than they vote for the dems

Edited July 21, 2012 by carra

[Yunla]

In your head it is a minor issue as it involves your beloved abhisit, I would have thought you would be more concerned that the leader of your favorite political party in thailand is getting found out more and more and the damage it can do to his own party, What will come out next?

But as long as he does not wear red anything he does is a minor issue, any complaint is an attempt to smear him, its the the citizenship issue all over again

I don't care what damage is done to Abhisit or to DP if it is legitimate damage for legitimate reasons.

I am more concerned with the damage done to Thailand itself by the PTP, a humanrights-abusing totalitarian crime-syndicate.

If you want to believe that a decades old draft-dodge is a threat to Thailand in 2012 go ahead. I'm more concerned with serious crimes and serious theats to Thailand, such as the despotic PTP fascist mafia government that is in power this year.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yunla

[punisher]

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Giving this much attention to a minor issue is infact a diversionary tactic by PTP to take people's eyes away from the serious PTP crimes being committed on a regular basis this last year.

A 1986 paper on a draft dodge is not an important issue relating to the problems facing Thailand in 2012.

Its an issue, but not an important issue. Please refer to my first post to see what defines an "important issue" in the minds of Thailand reformists. Please notice that PTP have avoided tackling all of those important issues in favour of an obsessive 'absolve-Thaksin' policy, and now this draft dodge non-story that is only of interest to the most pettyminded.

Yeah,and the cooking show of samak was a big security problem for Thailand,he should be happy he did not get the death sentence,what a bad guy,maipenrai faking a few documents to avoid military service is not that bad for a guy who was later PM of Thailand,Double standards?No way

[retarius]

Thaksin must've falsified Abhisit's record to make him look bad. It's the only explanation that fits the Democrat good/PTP bad axiom that we must adhere to. Thank you to the poster who brought up Samak's cooking show....just goes to show that PTP leaders do egregious things and then try to make light of them....he probably sent his 8000 baht stipend directly to his master, Thaksin...

[DP25]

Is the best they can do? Who cares, it is so minor as to be inconsequential. If certain others had done the same thing, it would be the least dodgy or immoral thing they had ever done in their political career.

I am more concerned with people who dodge billions of baht in taxes, who rape the treasury year after year and divert badly needed funds that should go to fund social programs, people who order the murder of thousands of 'drug dealers' without trial, sponsor terrorist attacks in the center of Bangkok in order to create a bloodbath for your own political benefit, and who fund a violent armed uprising against the state in order to get back the billions of baht you stole from the Thai people that was rightfully confiscated by the state. People who have funneled billions in to a propaganda campaign to cover up horrible corruption and human rights abuses and slander all those brave enough to stand up to such villainy. These are the real crimes that needs to be addressed in Thailand

[chotthee]

The buying of fake Sor Dor 9 is no top secret. Many half Thai and wealthy Chinese kids did it. I bough my for 20,000 but that was a long time ago. It is very similar to the one Mark has, i.e. it is a duplicated ("Copy" stamp is red on top, to indicate a re-issued one to replace the lost original) copy stating that I got BLACK (exemption) during the lucky draw.

The latest price I can find in TV is 40,000 baht posted here by farang (farang don't lie):

I send my kids to international school in Bangkok. He is attending Ror Dor now (20 days a year for 3 years), so he do not have to be enlisted for 2 years. But most of his Thai (and half Thai) friends couldn't be bordered. They will just buy the fake Sor Dor 9 cert when time come.

I believe that Mark also bought the fake Sor Dor 9 cert, just like me. Unlike his birth cert, he dare not post his copy on the internet, by claiming that he lost it. Losing twice in a row is very unlikely.

I urge him to be courageous, and own up. Million of Thai (especially the wealthy one) bought it. Me too. It is no shame. He is just one of us.

(If mark own up, I will post my fake copy in ThaiVisa for you people to have a look).

[Moruya]

Gosh, what a thread. All the gloating billy goats that were ever born have crawled out from their rocks.

The PTP had to trawl back 26 years and only manage to pull up this old chestnut.

Let's see what the outcome is for this massive sin. Good thing they are looking to scrap the death penalty.

[OzMick]

How is raising an important issue a 'smear campaign'?

if it is can we also agree the the sexual misconduct allegations against the elected pm also a smear campaign? i am just wondering what constitutes a smear campaign in your head, is it anything against your beloved abhisit is a smear campaign?

Giving this much attention to a minor issue is infact a diversionary tactic by PTP to take people's eyes away from the serious PTP crimes being committed on a regular basis this last year.

A 1986 paper on a draft dodge is not an important issue relating to the problems facing Thailand in 2012.

Its an issue, but not an important issue. Please refer to my first post to see what defines an "important issue" in the minds of Thailand reformists. Please notice that PTP have avoided tackling all of those important issues in favour of an obsessive 'absolve-Thaksin' policy, and now this draft dodge non-story that is only of interest to the most pettyminded.

Yeah,and the cooking show of samak was a big security problem for Thailand,he should be happy he did not get the death sentence,what a bad guy,maipenrai faking a few documents to avoid military service is not that bad for a guy who was later PM of Thailand,Double standards?No way

Samak perjured himself in court (a recurrent theme with one side of Thai politics) and was sacked for that. He could have been, wanted and expected to be re-instated, but his party rejected him, most likely on the orders the foreign majority share-holder.

[fareastguy]

Oooop's a little mistake on the CV, bet he's not the only one!

But hey ho if found guilty he can always abscond for 6 years then ask for a full pardon & his position back.

[Yunla]

Yeah,and the cooking show of samak was a big security problem for Thailand,he should be happy he did not get the death sentence,what a bad guy,maipenrai faking a few documents to avoid military service is not that bad for a guy who was later PM of Thailand,Double standards?No way

Yes it is true, talking about an old cooking-show news story is also not relevant to the problems facing Thailand in 2012.

We can go even further back and talk about events of a thousand years ago. I heard that somebody stole somebody elses pig.

Lets discuss that old pig-stealing crime, today in 2012. I'm sure it is really relevant somehow. Its not like theres any really pressing important infrastructure problems in Thailand that need to be dealt with urgently by the PTP "government".

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yunla

[mca]

If it had been a PTP MP in the same situation would the anti-government posters on here give him the same slack?

[punisher]

It is not important what happened after samak had to go.Point is democrat friends here in Thaivisa say document faking to avoid military service is a minor thing,or smear campagne,well it is not and if it was known before then i think Abisit would be still in UK,never got the chance to be PM of Thailand,of course only if u measure with one standard

[OzMick]

It is not important what happened after samak had to go.Point is democrat friends here in Thaivisa say document faking to avoid military service is a minor thing,or smear campagne,well it is not and if it was known before then i think Abisit would be still in UK,never got the chance to be PM of Thailand,of course only if u measure with one standard

Then why raise the subject? A bit sensitive about Perjury are we?

[Yunla]

It is not important what happened after samak had to go.Point is democrat friends here in Thaivisa say document faking to avoid military service is a minor thing,or smear campagne,well it is not and if it was known before then i think Abisit would be still in UK,never got the chance to be PM of Thailand,of course only if u measure with one standard

I think I bought some of that 'smear champagne' from Tesco's once.

Actually I said about a week ago that if Abhisit has broken any law relating to his draft, then he should be charged with it. Nobody is above the law, is what I said.

My point was that this story is a potential 'issue' but it is by no means an important issue in a developing nation that has a lot of deprivation and serious infrastructure problems.

PTP should be focusing on making Thailand a healthier and more equal society, instead of avoiding those issues all the time in favour of slimeing Abhisit non-stop or absolving Thaksin non-stop. It really is only PTP who make Thailand into a two-person manufactured personality pantomime.

I would prefer PTP to focus on their elected job of governing Thailand.

The other fact that dwarfs this minor 'draft dodge' issue is the fact is that if Thaksin was ever charged with the full list of crimes he is guilty of, the jailer would lock him up and throw away the key so far you'd never see it land.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Yunla