Thai Troops Shot Italian Photographer: Police

AleG · July 25, 2012

...

I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ...

Change Vandergrift ring any bells?, that's the one I can think of the top of my head.

Then there was that RPG attack at a hotel that was being used by foreign journalists.

There was also a France 24 reporter attacked by Red Shirts... plus that little, insignificant political gesture when Red Shirts tried to burn down Channel 3 building... right there may not have been foreign journalists in the building at the time so never mind.

waza · July 25, 2012

Heres some more sources.................

A two weeks investigation by colleagues and friends of Fabio has cast some light on the circumstances of his killing. Fabio was killed by a bullet in an area where the Black Shirts were using mostly M 79 RPG – one of which severely wounded Canadian reporter Chandler Vandergrift – and M 16 assault rifles. On 19 May, these Black Shirts were occupying the Rajdamri Skytrain station, roughly 425 meters from the place where Fabio was hit. http://asiapacific.a...fabio-polenghi/

The pics are cited here..............

This might explain the missing bullet............

Cox said Polenghi followed a few steps behind. While running down the road, Cox felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Polenghi sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him.........

"My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same bullet," said Cox, adding that he didn't hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Polenghi. http://www.cpj.org/k...io-polenghi.php

The redshirts were targeting pro-government media and journalists...........

Reporters Without Borders condemns the violence against journalists by Red Shirt demonstrators and the government’s continual violation of the right to information. Thailand has rarely experienced the level of violence that was reached today, just hours after the army staged its assault on the Bangkok district occupied by former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s supporters. http://en.rsf.org/a-...2010,37509.html

This post reminds me of your fictional urban dictionary definitions...

Here is the rest of the quote that you left out, replacing it instead with "The redshirts were targeting pro-government media and journalists..........."

About 15 minutes later, Cox said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Cox said Polenghi followed a few steps behind. While running down the road, Cox felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Polenghi sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him. Polenghi was wearing a blue helmet with the word "Press" written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

"My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same bullet," said Cox, adding that he didn't hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Polenghi. "I don't know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. ... Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody."

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Get ya hand off your patongo Tom, it doesnt matter what nationality the reporters were if they were pro government they were in the sights of the redshirt mob. Dont forget the peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors set fire to the Channel 3 building trapping 100 people inside, if it wasnt for a daring helicopter rescue then you could add another 100 to the death toll.

9.10am:

Thailand's Channel 3 TV station is seeking police protection from redshirt protesters, according to a tweet from a reporter from the Nation.

9.24am:

Ben has confirmed that report about the TV station being under siege.

"Fleeing redshirts are torching Bangkok as they leave. Thai TV station Channel 3 is under attack from angry reds, and the Thai Stock Exchange building, a few kilometres from the protest site, has been set ablaze............

9.31am:

Staff at the Bangkok Post have been forced to flee their offices.

Bangkok Post being evacuated

, says its website.

The evacuation came after protesters have reportedly set fire on buildings around the Rama IV intersection.

Reporters are heading to Wat Klong Toey Nai

.

Thailand's Channel 3 has gone off air. AP reports: "Staff at the Thai local TV station Channel 3 say their building has been attacked by redshirt protesters. One staffer said cars parked outside the building were set on fire and protesters then entered the Channel 3 building."

There are reports that some

staff are trapped inside the building

.

9.43am:

The dead Italian journalist has been named as Fabio Polenghi. He was a 48-year-old freelance photojournalist, according to Newsolio.

10.44am:

Thaksin Shinawatra's lawyer Robert Amsterdam tweets:

The decision of #redshirt leaders to sacrifice themselves to prevent violence stands in stark contrast to a govt willing to murder its own.

10.55am:

A Bangkok fire service official just told the BBC that up to 100 staff are trapped in the Channel 3 building. There also unconfirmed reports that the fire at station's offices has been put out.

11.09am:

A helicopter has been photographed over Channel 3's building, in what is being seen as an attempt to evacuate staff.

http://www.guardian....kdown-redshirts

Edited July 25, 2012 by waza

tlansford · July 25, 2012

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Ton, you write "I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists" and quote "media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators".

Do you read yourself what you post here, or do you think the quote ONLY refers to Thai media people (like in the Channel3 torching and BP being evacuated) and that makes it more acceptable? Mind you a few foreign reporters felt intimidated walking through the red camp and certainly when interviewing 'guards'. vanderGrift being hit by grenades was just collateral damage of course, he shouldn't have wandered along with the army that day What was he thinking?

I have read many times that the red shirts are not friendly to thai journalists at the view them as biased against them. I have read reports of them threatening Thai press. I have never (not so far) heard of reports of the red shirts attacking foreign press - which is what I wrote. The quote from the article talked about the red shirts targeting the press in general - that includes Thai press. From the article it was clear that press from the Thai media did not feel safe.

And to respond to your question on acceptability - I never said it was acceptable, so, no, that does not make it more acceptable.

But the clearly selective posting from waza could perhaps be construed to be as fictional as his definition of patongo - which was the point I was making.

tlansford · July 25, 2012

- deleted for quote limits -

This post reminds me of your fictional urban dictionary definitions...

Here is the rest of the quote that you left out, replacing it instead with "The redshirts were targeting pro-government media and journalists..........."

About 15 minutes later, Cox said, sensing a lull in the shooting, he moved away from a barricade controlled by the UDD and into a nearly empty road to investigate a commotion among protesters approximately 30 to 40 meters away. Cox said Polenghi followed a few steps behind. While running down the road, Cox felt a sudden, sharp pain in the side of his leg. It turned out that a bullet had grazed his knee, causing minor injury. When he turned to look back in the direction of the troops, he saw Polenghi sprawled on the ground about two or three meters behind him. Polenghi was wearing a blue helmet with the word "Press" written across the front and back, and a green armband indicating that he was a working journalist.

"My feeling at the time was that we were shot at the exact same time, perhaps even with the same bullet," said Cox, adding that he didn't hear the gunshot or shots that hit him or Polenghi. "I don't know who shot me or Fabio, but if the military was trying to shoot red shirts, there was no one around us. ... Soldiers were firing at anything or anybody."

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Get ya hand off your patongo Tom, it doesnt matter what nationality the reporters were if they were pro government they were in the sights of the redshirt mob. Dont forget the peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors set fire to the Channel 3 building trapping 100 people inside, if it wasnt for a daring helicopter rescue then you could add another 100 to the death toll.

your definition of patongo and your fairy-tale about the shooting are both fictional.

Why do you even selectively quote from an article which so clearly states the opposite of the point you are trying to propose?

mistitikimikis · July 25, 2012

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Ton, you write "I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists" and quote "media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators".

Do you read yourself what you post here, or do you think the quote ONLY refers to Thai media people (like in the Channel3 torching and BP being evacuated) and that makes it more acceptable? Mind you a few foreign reporters felt intimidated walking through the red camp and certainly when interviewing 'guards'. vanderGrift being hit by grenades was just collateral damage of course, he shouldn't have wandered along with the army that day What was he thinking?

Might be I'm too old in the mean time but cannot remember this phrase: "I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists" and quote "media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators".

Would you be so kind to give me the link?

Furthermore, although I have, might be, more "inside info", I want to leave the info to the media and to some "well-informed" / well minded posters as I like to keep certain things for myself and like to refer to the site Fabiopolenghi.org which has been organized for that, informing more then I can / want to do.

Reasonableman · July 25, 2012

http://en.rsf.org/a-...2010,37509.html

Reporters Without Borders condemns the violence against journalists by Red Shirt demonstrators and the government’s continual violation of the right to information. Thailand has rarely experienced the level of violence that was reached today, just hours after the army staged its assault on the Bangkok district occupied by former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra’s supporters.

The press freedom organisation is also every worried by the fact that the activities of journalists in Thailand have been brought to a virtual standstill.

“The right to information is more important than ever when a country is in crisis, as Thailand is at the moment,” Reporters Without Borders said. “International law clearly states that journalists cannot be military targets. We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Edited July 25, 2012 by Reasonableman

waza · July 25, 2012

Dont get your patongo in a twist Tom, my quotes are cited yours are the anonymous ones and therefore can be construed as fictional. Get it right Tom and stop misleading the posters with you perverted recollections of a good and just redshirt movement, they are violent thugs.

PS: In addition as with the the reasonable mans quote above the information is contained in the first line, the information post that is an expansion of that piont. I edit out the ad nausea but make it clear I have done this with the ............ This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion.

Edited July 25, 2012 by waza

tlansford · July 25, 2012

Dont get your patongo in a twist Tom, my quotes are cited yours are the anonymous ones and therefore can be construed as fictional. Get it right Tom and stop misleading the posters with you perverted recollections of a good and just redshirt movement, they are violent thugs.

PS: In addition as with the the reasonable mans quote above the information is contained in the first line, the information post that is an expansion of that piont. I edit out the ad nausea but make it clear I have done this with the ............ This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion.

"This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion."

come on, ... you just happened to cut short the quote where he said that the army was shooting at everyone and anything and there were no red shirts around them, and you want me (or anyone else) to believe that this was for clarity??

waza · July 25, 2012

Dont get your patongo in a twist Tom, my quotes are cited yours are the anonymous ones and therefore can be construed as fictional. Get it right Tom and stop misleading the posters with you perverted recollections of a good and just redshirt movement, they are violent thugs.

PS: In addition as with the the reasonable mans quote above the information is contained in the first line, the information post that is an expansion of that piont. I edit out the ad nausea but make it clear I have done this with the ............ This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion.

"This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion."

come on, ... you just happened to cut short the quote where he said that the army was shooting at everyone and anything and there were no red shirts around them, and you want me (or anyone else) to believe that this was for clarity??

tlansford · July 25, 2012

Dont get your patongo in a twist Tom, my quotes are cited yours are the anonymous ones and therefore can be construed as fictional. Get it right Tom and stop misleading the posters with you perverted recollections of a good and just redshirt movement, they are violent thugs.

PS: In addition as with the the reasonable mans quote above the information is contained in the first line, the information post that is an expansion of that piont. I edit out the ad nausea but make it clear I have done this with the ............ This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion.

"This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion."

come on, ... you just happened to cut short the quote where he said that the army was shooting at everyone and anything and there were no red shirts around them, and you want me (or anyone else) to believe that this was for clarity??

Waza, here is my opinion.

you purposely cut short the quoted article to justify your position that the red shirts were possibly targeting the italian journalist.

The article clearly states the exact opposite.

IMO mis-quoting or mis-representing a source purposefully is purposefully lying.

That is my opinion. It also is my opinion that it is not interesting to "discuss" with liars.

AleG · July 25, 2012

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Ton, you write "I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists" and quote "media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators".

Do you read yourself what you post here, or do you think the quote ONLY refers to Thai media people (like in the Channel3 torching and BP being evacuated) and that makes it more acceptable? Mind you a few foreign reporters felt intimidated walking through the red camp and certainly when interviewing 'guards'. vanderGrift being hit by grenades was just collateral damage of course, he shouldn't have wandered along with the army that day What was he thinking?

You beat me to it...

Poor Chance serves to show the duplicity of the UDD apologists.

In his case, contrary to Fabio's, there is very solid evidence that his serious injuries (I'm not sure if he has recovered yet) were caused by Red Shirts, yet not one tenth (more like zero) of the vitriol directed at the army is directed at them.

Why aren't those frothing at the mouth over the army allegedly killing Fabio say not a word about Chance being fragged by "peaceful protestors"?

The conclusion I arrive is that it's not about people being shot and killed, is about how shoots and kills and how to make facts conform to the narrative of the Red Shirts as a peaceful protest group brutally and unjustifiably oppressed.

As a disclaimer I should point out my position again, that Fabio was probably killed by a stray bullet in the cross fire by a soldier. Which is far, far different than, as some people have been arguing here, that he was targeted as a journalist.

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

http://www.guardian....kdown-redshirts

I've deleted all the selectively altered quotes and BS in your post and just left this link you provided as a clear indication to all just how deliberately you are twisting every source. These are directly quoted from the source you kindly provided a link to and are 1st hand witness accounts as to the events...

An AP reporter who followed the troops into the protest camp saw the bodies of two men sprawled on the ground, one with a head wound and other apparently shot in the upper body. They were the first known casualties in the assault that began before dawn on a 1km square stretch of downtown Bangkok that protesters have occupied.

Troops fired M-16 rifles at fleeing protesters and shouted: "Come out and surrender or we'll kill you."

An AP photographer saw three foreign journalists shot. One was an Italian photographer shot in the chest. His eyes were rolled back and he showed no signs of life. A Dutch journalist walked into the hospital with a bullet wound in his shoulder. The third journalist was a 53-year-old American documentary film-maker who was treated for a shot in the leg

Outnumbered and lacking firepower, however, the protesters suffered serious casualties. As the fighting intensified, shot demonstrators were being rushed to waiting ambulances.

I saw a Thai man shot as he crouched behind an ambulance which came to rescue him. After coming under fire the ambulance retreated leaving the man stranded in the street.

"Troops are moving into the redshirts central city protest camp firing indiscriminately, as they seek to take back control of the capital's streets.

I wonder why you carefully edited out these snippets from your quotes???

Your own explanation - "This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion" is quite clearly total BS and I suggest a more accurate response would be along these lines... this is to reduce the information in my post so that I can give a purely one sided and biased impression of the events, preventing anyone reading my post from having an informed opinion...

You are insulting to your own intelligence let alone that of others and those directly involved in the events of 2010.

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

The Nation and the BKK Post sent their reporters home fearing for their safety, and I have seen if often reported that the red shirts were not friendly to any Thai journalists. I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists, ... which is what you apparently would like to imply here.

It was very sad that journalists were targeted - whether purposefully or due to negligence - and it doesn't matter who they were reporting for or who was targeting them - that should never have happened.

BTW, from your second link, your selective quoting missed this one.

We are outraged to see the media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators. We urge the Thai government to restore order without delay and to lift the media censorship.”

Please don't choke on your patongo...

Ton, you write "I have never read any reports of the red shirts attacking foreign journalists" and quote "media being repeatedly targeted by both the army and demonstrators".

Do you read yourself what you post here, or do you think the quote ONLY refers to Thai media people (like in the Channel3 torching and BP being evacuated) and that makes it more acceptable? Mind you a few foreign reporters felt intimidated walking through the red camp and certainly when interviewing 'guards'. vanderGrift being hit by grenades was just collateral damage of course, he shouldn't have wandered along with the army that day What was he thinking?

You beat me to it...

Poor Chance serves to show the duplicity of the UDD apologists.

In his case, contrary to Fabio's, there is very solid evidence that his serious injuries (I'm not sure if he has recovered yet) were caused by Red Shirts, yet not one tenth (more like zero) of the vitriol directed at the army is directed at them.

Why aren't those frothing at the mouth over the army allegedly killing Fabio say not a word about Chance being fragged by "peaceful protestors"?

The conclusion I arrive is that it's not about people being shot and killed, is about how shoots and kills and how to make facts conform to the narrative of the Red Shirts as a peaceful protest group brutally and unjustifiably oppressed.

As a disclaimer I should point out my position again, that Fabio was probably killed by a stray bullet in the cross fire by a soldier. Which is far, far different than, as some people have been arguing here, that he was targeted as a journalist.

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

AleG · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

transam · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

How does a bullet ''stray'' ? The shooter makes the decision, and l would doubt that anyone was on auto.

waza · July 25, 2012

To Tom and Ferangled I challenge you both to provide evidence that I am suggesting that the Redshirts deliberately targeted Fabio, if you cant I expect an apology.

I did infact state quite clearly that, "It obvious that he was killed by the Thai military who may have mistaken him for a blackshirt given that he was running with the redshirts dressed in black paramilitary gear." in post #26, and revised it in post #29 due to further research to, " Hmmm obviously is the wrong word, I think its possible that he was killed by the RTA, its possible he was shot for his camera or its contents too." .

The other comments I made were on the topic of the stolen camera's and the fact that the, as the Ansterdamites termed "peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors" were infact violently targeting journalists.

I know you are upset Tom, about my suggestion that you choked on a penis joke but thats no reason to fabricate lies about my posts.

Edited July 25, 2012 by waza

AleG · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

"Chance's unfortunate demise..." I'll just point out that he didn't die. Learn what you spout about before, well, spouting. Furthermore I didn't say that Chance was specifically targeted. He happened to be in the place were a grenade launched from the Red Shirt side landed.

The rest of the drivel is not worth addressing.

waza · July 25, 2012

http://www.guardian....kdown-redshirts

I've deleted all the selectively altered quotes and BS in your post and just left this link you provided as a clear indication to all just how deliberately you are twisting every source. These are directly quoted from the source you kindly provided a link to and are 1st hand witness accounts as to the events...

An AP reporter who followed the troops into the protest camp saw the bodies of two men sprawled on the ground, one with a head wound and other apparently shot in the upper body. They were the first known casualties in the assault that began before dawn on a 1km square stretch of downtown Bangkok that protesters have occupied.

Troops fired M-16 rifles at fleeing protesters and shouted: "Come out and surrender or we'll kill you."

An AP photographer saw three foreign journalists shot. One was an Italian photographer shot in the chest. His eyes were rolled back and he showed no signs of life. A Dutch journalist walked into the hospital with a bullet wound in his shoulder. The third journalist was a 53-year-old American documentary film-maker who was treated for a shot in the leg

Outnumbered and lacking firepower, however, the protesters suffered serious casualties. As the fighting intensified, shot demonstrators were being rushed to waiting ambulances.

I saw a Thai man shot as he crouched behind an ambulance which came to rescue him. After coming under fire the ambulance retreated leaving the man stranded in the street.

"Troops are moving into the redshirts central city protest camp firing indiscriminately, as they seek to take back control of the capital's streets.

I wonder why you carefully edited out these snippets from your quotes???

Your own explanation - "This is to reduce the size of my post a to make room for as much information I as I can fit in without over loading the reader but allowing them an informed opinion" is quite clearly total BS and I suggest a more accurate response would be along these lines... this is to reduce the information in my post so that I can give a purely one sided and biased impression of the events, preventing anyone reading my post from having an informed opinion...

You are insulting to your own intelligence let alone that of others and those directly involved in the events of 2010.

Wow very damming evidence, I better hang my head in shame. How did omitting the paragraphs have any impact on my post about redshirts targeting journalist?????

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

How does a bullet ''stray'' ? The shooter makes the decision, and l would doubt that anyone was on auto.

Exactly

Tanaka · July 25, 2012

The situation with this case is that the reporter's widow is aligned with Robert Amsterdam and a Red shirt lawyer. Thaksin's brother in law is the chief of police and Amsterdam also represents Thaksin.

How much more conflict of interest could there be?

How many of the 47 are red shirts?

How many actually saw the reporter at the moment he was shot and can recall which direction he was in relation to the armed forces?

Unfortunately this case now stinks politically.

It says 47 witnesses and experts. Does not say who is what. How many of those are experts and what is their expertise and what is that expertise connecting to in this case?

waza · July 25, 2012

To Tom and Ferangled I challenge you both to provide evidence that I am suggesting that the Redshirts deliberately targeted Fabio, if you cant I expect an apology.

I did infact state quite clearly that, "It obvious that he was killed by the Thai military who may have mistaken him for a blackshirt given that he was running with the redshirts dressed in black paramilitary gear." in post #26, and revised it in post #29 due to further research to, " Hmmm obviously is the wrong word, I think its possible that he was killed by the RTA, its possible he was shot for his camera or its contents too." .

The other comments I made were on the topic of the stolen camera's and the fact that the, as the Ansterdamites termed "peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors" were infact violently targeting journalists.

I know you are upset Tom, about my suggestion that you choked on a penis joke but thats no reason to fabricate lies about my posts.

Hmmm no response?

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

Yes it was probably a stray bullet and the theft of his camera was actually in an effort to protect any evidence it may contain of Red Shirt violence..... errr... which never came to light because....errr.. because the military are simply trying to put this sorry affair behind them and.... um, gee this is hard to swing..... errr... don't want to drag up the events in respect to those that lost their lives... eh? How does that sound, convincing stuff eh?!

And that bullet was obviously a rubber one.... err... possibly swapped over deliberately by a red, no black shirt, in an effort to get the military to fire live rounds mistakenly...er.... so that at a later date... er sorry, I can't seem to spin this one convincingly...

Ale, remembers not to drag himself to this level.

Nevermind...

Why stop now, you've been doing such a great job previously, using pointedly obvious bias in your posts then claiming neutrality... For one that does actually try to remain neutral and open minded your post read as complete drivel.

Chance's unfortunate demise becoming a deliberate frag attack by the Red shirts while Polenghi's death was obviously a tragic mistake, a stray bullet from the well meaning military... give me a break, neutral my @rse, could you stoop any lower? You are deliberately and obviously twisting events and selectively ignoring evidence and statements that we all have access to, even if much of it is censored on here. Please cease with your amateur dramatics, not the time or the place.

"Chance's unfortunate demise..." I'll just point out that he didn't die. Learn what you spout about before, well, spouting. Furthermore I didn't say that Chance was specifically targeted. He happened to be in the place were a grenade launched from the Red Shirt side landed.

The rest of the drivel is not worth addressing.

I'd just like to point out that demise does not mean death exclusively, it equally refers to a halting of proceedings, actions etc eg the demise of accurate journalism due to fear triggered by the military targeting of journalists, but I appreciate your literary comment.

More distraction and a pointed absence of relevant comment, how refreshing!

Ferangled · July 25, 2012

To Tom and Ferangled I challenge you both to provide evidence that I am suggesting that the Redshirts deliberately targeted Fabio, if you cant I expect an apology.

I did infact state quite clearly that, "It obvious that he was killed by the Thai military who may have mistaken him for a blackshirt given that he was running with the redshirts dressed in black paramilitary gear." in post #26, and revised it in post #29 due to further research to, " Hmmm obviously is the wrong word, I think its possible that he was killed by the RTA, its possible he was shot for his camera or its contents too." .

The other comments I made were on the topic of the stolen camera's and the fact that the, as the Ansterdamites termed "peacefull unarmed redshirt protestors" were infact violently targeting journalists.

I know you are upset Tom, about my suggestion that you choked on a penis joke but thats no reason to fabricate lies about my posts.

Hmmm no response?

Jeez mate, if you are waiting for an apology you'll be waiting a long time. Read what you wrote then read my response and try to sit down somewhere quiet and think about it. Your deliberate and selective quotes were obvious to the point of idiocy as was your ridiculous explanation. For convenience I'll copy and paste my response for you...