Not All Follow Thammasat University Lead On Cross-Dressing Grads

[webfact]

Not all follow TU's lead on cross-dressing grads

Chanikarn Phumhirun,

Chuleeporn Aramnet

The Nation

THE NATION: -- Not all male graduates with "women's hearts" will be able to dress as females at their commencement ceremonies, as long-held traditions and rules remain firmly in place at Chulalongkorn University (CU) and likely elsewhere.

Much public excitement followed this week's confirmation by Thammasat University that it would allow some male graduates to don female clothing during commencement ceremonies.

Some people saw it as progress towards true equality for people who do not conform to traditional ideas about gender.

CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul, however, said yesterday that his university still did not allow male graduates to wear female clothing.

He said the CU graduation gowns and emblem were royally granted and considered sacred.

"We have never received a request from any male graduate wishing to dress as a woman at the commencement ceremony," he said. "If we receive one, we will talk to the graduate and explain CU's history to them."

According to Pirom, the University Presidents Council of Thailand (UPCT) issued a resolution in 2009 requiring that graduates wear clothing appropriate to their gender.

"This resolution is flexible depending on each institute's context," he said.

Although Pirom emphasised the need to respect and understand people with what he referred to as gender-identity problems, he said one should also respect the history and tradition of each institute.

"By law, transgender people still cannot change their title name.

"At the CU commencement ceremonies, deans read out the title name of each graduate in front of a royal who presides over the event. We can't ignore this fact," Pirom said.

Suranaree University of Technology president Professor Dr Prasart Suebka plans to raise the issue of the dress code for graduates with gender-identity disorders at the UPCT meeting on August 26, Pirom said.

TU vice rector Udom Rathamarit said his university had allowed male graduates to dress as women at commencement ceremonies since 2010.

"Back then, we received requests from pending graduates and decided to consult palace officials who inspected the campus around that time," he said.

Udom said the palace officials advised that the attire should be proper and polite.

"We requested to see certificates issued by doctors about gender-identity disorders before allowing male graduates to wear female graduation gowns," he said.

At the TU commencement ceremonies, no title name is announced.

Assistant Professor Prinya Thaewanarumitkul, who is TU's vice rector for student affairs, said the title name was left out because of time constraints during the ceremony.

Prinya said he understood that male graduates allowed to dress as women hoped that the decision would have a wider impact.

"I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," he said.

Prinya said Thammasat University would consider requests submitted by female graduates who wished to dress as men at the commencement ceremonies.

"We will consider each request and grant approval on a case-by-case basis," he said.

-- The Nation 2012-08-18

[Zpete]

If females are allowed to wear male style clothing, slacks and shirts etc, there is no logical reason for males to be denied the option of wearing female attire.

[maidu]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

[chinook]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Your avatar speaks volumes.

[geriatrickid]

I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul said.

Ahh, so not only is it a gender disorder, but it is a disability too.

Seriously, and this guy is supposed to be educated? It speaks volumes as to how backward the gentleman is, even if he is well meaning.

Many gender orientations are not disorders but are quite natural. As for it being a disability on the same level as a physical disability, I really do have to wonder. Sexual orientation is not a physical impediment. Not a big thinker, is he?

[PaullyW]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Do you know where I can get info on these girls?

I'm quite serious. I'd love to meat a few.

Edited August 18, 2012 by PaullyW

[djjamie]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Can't agree more. Call me old fashioned as well. Thats why I have taken my boy out of Thailand now he is at school age. I definitely do not want him growing up as a "woman"

[djjamie]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Can't agree more. Call me old fashioned as well. Thats why I have taken my boy out of Thailand now he is at school age. I definitely do not want him growing up as a "woman"

Even if it is only a 1% chance he does.

[Minnehaha]

actually he quoted society's respect and responsibility to serve all of society. In that sense... it makes sense. And in that sense... he could not have chosen a better analogy.

I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul said.

Ahh, so not only is it a gender disorder, but it is a disability too.

Seriously, and this guy is supposed to be educated? It speaks volumes as to how backward the gentleman is, even if he is well meaning.

Many gender orientations are not disorders but are quite natural. As for it being a disability on the same level as a physical disability, I really do have to wonder. Sexual orientation is not a physical impediment. Not a big thinker, is he?

[kiniyow]

This is a very tough subject...Ladyboys seem to be totally accepted all over the Kingdom..Nearly Every TV show has them and commercials...Everywhere you Look you see them..Airlines are now hiring them as Stewards...Nearly all business hires them including Tesco and Big C as well as 7-11....

There here to stay and Thailand apparently has accepted this...

[PaulHamon]

I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

If 15% of the population world wide is estimated to be gay then I think you're numbers are great, maybe this is the first place on earth public torrenance nearly matches actual figures.

[PaulHamon]

It's just a peice of paper, why do you have to get dress up to get it at all...

The country should be thanking the people/population for getting educated, they should not have to thank the instituation for 'giving' it to them.

The whole ceremony is ass-backwards if you ask me.

[BigSkip]

It's just a peice of paper, why do you have to get dress up to get it at all...

The country should be thanking the people/population for getting educated, they should not have to thank the instituation for 'giving' it to them.

The whole ceremony is ass-backwards if you ask me.

Not is the whole ceremony is ass-backwards, what other country does not allow you watch your own child or spouse receive it in person, if your lucky maybe on some t.v. screen in another room.

[KhunNene]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

It is very saddening to read you. That gorilla in your avatar is quite more human than you are.

[KhunNene]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Can't agree more. Call me old fashioned as well. Thats why I have taken my boy out of Thailand now he is at school age. I definitely do not want him growing up as a "woman"

Even if it is only a 1% chance he does.

Another sad post. I hope your son does not grow as you did, at all.

[royscruton]

I suggest that the only "gender-identity problems" and "gender-identity disorders" that exist are those caused by institutionalized intolerance.

[mrjohndub]

Jokes aside, this is bigotry. If you're going to justify something in the 'royal' name, you ought to take into consideration the tolerance supposedly espoused by the royal family. And I think they (the royals) would not stand in the way. Why wouldn't they? Aren't they Buddhist?

[h90]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

such problems arise when the level is too low. As well the shootings......

From my experience: I would lift the complete dress code and uniforms at the universities. As well make it complete free when you come or go.

No entrance exams, but you can't make something of the second year without complete most of the first year.

Than tighten the screw on the drop out rate. in my opinion 50 % is a good value for a university.

I recall an exam where a student complained that these questions were never lectured. The Professor answered that he know that, but this is a University not a school and it is in many books. Someone interested in the topic would know about it.

that is the way.....quality not how people dress and what sex they would like to have. If I come naked but can answer every question than I am qualified. If I am very neat and nice but an idiot than not.

If too many problems happen than increase the drop out rate till no one has time for nonsense.

[hellodolly]

I suggest that the only "gender-identity problems" and "gender-identity disorders" that exist are those caused by institutionalized intolerance.

Agreed.

It is kind of like freedom of speech

It is a world wide happening. Only in Thailand is it allowed to be shown openly. In the western world where I lived I was told that it was not uncommon for many women to go through a stage where they were attracted to women. Where I came from there were many people with "gender-identity problems". They were not allowed to show them in public so they became a sort of underground society with loneliness being a big problem. I pity the one's who must live in hiding because of the intolerance the public has against them. I have known a few in my life time and found them to be good people. We just had different sexual or if you like dress ideas. I know there are bad ones in that world the same as there are in the world of heterosexual. It just happens to be a fact of life. If you are white how would you like the world to judge you on Hitler or Stalin they were white. Think about it

I am not asking you to embrace them or even condone them. Just don't be so critical of them.

I am asking them to honor traditions in institutions they choose to join.

Having said all that I would like to say that when they attend a institution they should try to adhere to custom.

[KhunMoo]

Christ....if they wan't to wear skirts, then for gods sake let them? What is the big fuss? The rest of Thai society seems to accept them, befriend and employ them, <deleted> can¨t they wear a skirt, when they get their diploma?

I think one of the good things about this country, is that they seem to be more gay/transvestite friendly - what puzzles me though, is that the "rate" of gayness is rather high in Thailand. I think my wife has like 25% gay staff. That is quite hard to find, where i come from (Scandinavia).....

Also a lot of my male Thai friends, that are hetrosexual, dresses more and more...well....to say it like it is: gay....

It seems to be fashionable is some way - From TV add's and TV-shows the Koreans, seems to be, the ones to blame (The skinny jeans, too long shoes, big hair look and wearing a male purse.)

Dosen't bother me though, it leaves more females to us straight guys, and makes us look more masculine

[cougar]

There is like a massive cross-dressing community in most Western societies. It just isn't accepted. Here it is and it is visible. I often hear Farangs say Thais are an effeminate race. It just isn't true. They have a choice as a child, go lady or go boy. We don't. The result is you get very masculine women, very effeminate women, very masculine boys, and very effeminate boys. Most tourists see the very female women and the very female boys. But there's a whole other thing going on in the background. A very masculine woman might cut your throat if you insult her, and a very masculine guy might shoot you. Just to complicate matters a masculine woman might go wiv an effeminate girl, and a masculine man might go wiv an effeminate boy. I wouldn't say Thais are an effeminate race, they just let out things other people keep hidden. I certainly am not going to call one of my local minivan drivers gay, they'd probably kick my arse, given their performance in the impromptu takraw competitions they give every now and then. No I think the difference between Farangs and Thais is they choose their sexuality, we have it forced upon us.

[geriatrickid]

actually he quoted society's respect and responsibility to serve all of society. In that sense... it makes sense. And in that sense... he could not have chosen a better analogy.

I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul said.

Ahh, so not only is it a gender disorder, but it is a disability too.

Seriously, and this guy is supposed to be educated? It speaks volumes as to how backward the gentleman is, even if he is well meaning.

Many gender orientations are not disorders but are quite natural. As for it being a disability on the same level as a physical disability, I really do have to wonder. Sexual orientation is not a physical impediment. Not a big thinker, is he?

Then he should have said that. It is not an appropriate analogy to compare a gender identification, to a physical restriction. A gender identification is not a physical impairment. The barriers to these people are attitudes and behaviours. The barriers for the physically impaired are physical, particularly in respect to accessibility such as sidewalks, or entries or toilets.. The only thing that the two conditions have in common is that it is the attitudes and behaviours of others that causes them hardship. I doubt this university has much to be proud about when it comes to accomodating the physically impaired anyway. A more appropriate statement would have been to say, we believe that it is appropriate to accept people who have sarisfied the academic qualifications to gaduate and that are attired properly for the ceremony. Gender has no bearing on the issue.

[geriatrickid]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Can't agree more. Call me old fashioned as well. Thats why I have taken my boy out of Thailand now he is at school age. I definitely do not want him growing up as a "woman"

Why so glum? He might meet an older foreigner and find everlasting happiness.

The gentleman could be a surrogate father and provide the unconditional love that he did not have as a child.

[harrry]

actually he quoted society's respect and responsibility to serve all of society. In that sense... it makes sense. And in that sense... he could not have chosen a better analogy.

I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul said.

Ahh, so not only is it a gender disorder, but it is a disability too.

Seriously, and this guy is supposed to be educated? It speaks volumes as to how backward the gentleman is, even if he is well meaning.

Many gender orientations are not disorders but are quite natural. As for it being a disability on the same level as a physical disability, I really do have to wonder. Sexual orientation is not a physical impediment. Not a big thinker, is he?

Then he should have said that. It is not an appropriate analogy to compare a gender identification, to a physical restriction. A gender identification is not a physical impairment. The barriers to these people are attitudes and behaviours. The barriers for the physically impaired are physical, particularly in respect to accessibility such as sidewalks, or entries or toilets.. The only thing that the two conditions have in common is that it is the attitudes and behaviours of others that causes them hardship. I doubt this university has much to be proud about when it comes to accomodating the physically impaired anyway. A more appropriate statement would have been to say, we believe that it is appropriate to accept people who have sarisfied the academic qualifications to gaduate and that are attired properly for the ceremony. Gender has no bearing on the issue.

The biggest handicap to those in wheelchairs is the attitude of others. If attitudes are OK the physical environment follows.

[maidu]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Your avatar speaks volumes.

It is very saddening to read you. That gorilla in your avatar is quite more human than you are.

What's sad? That I tell it as I see it? That I articulate, including %'s what I observe? That I don't bend over backwards to try to act nice to everyone?

If you've got a beef with what I mention, then articulate it. Don't just pick on the picture of a gorilla head that I chose my avatar.

Here's something else I've observed about cross-gender: They're often thin-skinned, and because they're so quick to get offended (even when they mis-interpret something) they're just as quick to anger and vengence. If you want a soceity with 10 to 20% of citizens who are not only troubled by their sexual identity, but who also take immense offense at the slightest perceived mention of it - and who are quick to anger - then that's your choice. In that sense, It's good I don't reside in parts of Thaland which are over-run by aggressive katoy (who can beat people up, and the cops can't touch 'em). You know the places.

[Farangdam]

we will never understand what... forever..... los ways

[PaullyW]

I taught at a Thai U for several months. In each of my seven classes, there was at least one katoy, some classes had two, one had three. I see an increasing number of young 'boys' being influenced by older kids / pee chai / TV shows, etc, and becoming effeminate. Thailand must certainly be the 'hub of effeminate men.' I'd estimate over 10% of school boys are headed that direction. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think it's a good trend, or even liberating.

Maybe just coincidence; but every Thai college gal who screws around for extra income, has a katoy acting as an agent. Actually, it's not coincidence, but rather a natural role for effeminate men to fill.

Do you know where I can get info on these girls?

I'm quite serious. I'd love to meat a few.

Hi there. Just following up on this. Any info is most appreciated.

Kind regards,

[Thai at Heart]

Has anyone ever read such disturbing nonsense, and uttered by a supposedly educated man. Disorders, disabilities? Is he really saying that these people are deficient?

Now you can say many things about this type of behavior, but to insinuate what he is saying is outrageous. And he never actually answered the question why a guy can't wear a shirt or a girl wear trousers.

[SOEYCHANLOY]

Not all follow TU's lead on cross-dressing grads

Chanikarn Phumhirun,

Chuleeporn Aramnet

The Nation

THE NATION: -- Not all male graduates with "women's hearts" will be able to dress as females at their commencement ceremonies, as long-held traditions and rules remain firmly in place at Chulalongkorn University (CU) and likely elsewhere.

Much public excitement followed this week's confirmation by Thammasat University that it would allow some male graduates to don female clothing during commencement ceremonies.

Some people saw it as progress towards true equality for people who do not conform to traditional ideas about gender.

CU president Professor Pirom Kamolratanakul, however, said yesterday that his university still did not allow male graduates to wear female clothing.

He said the CU graduation gowns and emblem were royally granted and considered sacred.

"We have never received a request from any male graduate wishing to dress as a woman at the commencement ceremony," he said. "If we receive one, we will talk to the graduate and explain CU's history to them."

According to Pirom, the University Presidents Council of Thailand (UPCT) issued a resolution in 2009 requiring that graduates wear clothing appropriate to their gender.

"This resolution is flexible depending on each institute's context," he said.

Although Pirom emphasised the need to respect and understand people with what he referred to as gender-identity problems, he said one should also respect the history and tradition of each institute.

"By law, transgender people still cannot change their title name.

"At the CU commencement ceremonies, deans read out the title name of each graduate in front of a royal who presides over the event. We can't ignore this fact," Pirom said.

Suranaree University of Technology president Professor Dr Prasart Suebka plans to raise the issue of the dress code for graduates with gender-identity disorders at the UPCT meeting on August 26, Pirom said.

TU vice rector Udom Rathamarit said his university had allowed male graduates to dress as women at commencement ceremonies since 2010.

"Back then, we received requests from pending graduates and decided to consult palace officials who inspected the campus around that time," he said.

Udom said the palace officials advised that the attire should be proper and polite.

"We requested to see certificates issued by doctors about gender-identity disorders before allowing male graduates to wear female graduation gowns," he said.

At the TU commencement ceremonies, no title name is announced.

Assistant Professor Prinya Thaewanarumitkul, who is TU's vice rector for student affairs, said the title name was left out because of time constraints during the ceremony.

Prinya said he understood that male graduates allowed to dress as women hoped that the decision would have a wider impact.

"I hope society will consider this issue. If a wheelchair-bound graduate is provided special arrangements during a commencement ceremony, graduates with gender-identity disorders should get them, too," he said.

Prinya said Thammasat University would consider requests submitted by female graduates who wished to dress as men at the commencement ceremonies.

"We will consider each request and grant approval on a case-by-case basis," he said.

-- The Nation 2012-08-18

Infested by gays! !

Sent from my GT-S5830T using Thaivisa Connect App

[jerrysteve]

Not Dressing at all, and going Naked to Graduation would work!