Visa For Us? Retirement, Business, Investor

[kdf]

Hello gang,

I have read much and learned much on this forum. Thanks. However, my particulars are somewhat different from what I have found here. My wife , not Thai, and I are moving to LOS. We are both over 50 and have the funds needed for the retirement visas. We also have the funds for the 3 million baht investment visa. However, we are not yet knowledgeable enough to make this investment. We do not know what kinds of investments are OK, even after reading about it at LA consul site. Also owning a small business has appeal to us, bar/restaurant. We will want to travel around SE Asia some and leaving every 90 days does not (now) seem to be to big a bother. I have asked these questions of Sunbelt Asia SEVERAL times, without the curtesy of a response. They finally responded with what appeared a canned reponse of their available sevices. Disapointing.

What kind of visa would you o'knowledgeable ones suggest?

Can my wife qualify for a spouse visa, or will she need her own?

We do have belongings we would like to take with us, but not right away. Which visa type is most helpfull for this?

What about a car, motorcycle, and electronics, buy there or bring?

My current plan, based on readings here, is too seek non immigrant business visas and change later to the most approprite visa. Some time back on this forum it was suggested that a letter to Houston or Denver's consulates with the reason "looking for investment and /or retirement possibilities in Thailand" would be sufficient to gain this visa. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

kdf

[Sunbelt Asia]

Dear KDF,

I have asked these questions of Sunbelt Asia SEVERAL times, without the curtesy of a response. They finally responded with what appeared a canned reponse of their available sevices. Disapointing.

I as the Managing Director apologize. We take client service VERY important here. We literally answer hundreds of e-mails a days and not sure who dropped the ball on this. We did have problems with the ISP last week and a number of e-mails went into a "black hole" Once again sorry and will do my utmost to make sure your needs are served. Could you tell me what e-mail you sent this response to?

What kind of visa would you o'knowledgeable ones suggest?

Here are the pros and cons to each.

Extension of Stay based on Retirement. This would be easy to obtain with you being over 50. However you could not apply for a work permit.

Extension of stay based on Investment. This would also be easy to obtain as long as you have 3 million Baht as a fixed deposit in a Government bank or a condo from a developer. You can get a work permit as well on this extension of stay.

Extension of Stay based on Business. If you acquire a company and employ 4 Thais per work permit with a minimum salary of 5.430 Baht per month ( Bangkok). You can obtain an extension of stay permit based on business. You will not need to leave the country.

Multiple Entry Visa. Sunbelt can sponsor you for this type of visa. You then can change this later to a retirement, investment or even an extension of stay based on business. You also could continue using this visa if you acquire a business and you will not be employing 4 Thais, you still can obtain a work permit and utilize this one year multiple entry visa. ( This will require traveling outside Thailand every 90 days)

I would recommend a One Year Multiple Entry Visa. Take your time decide what you want to do and then its easy to change to whatever visa you like here.

Can my wife qualify for a spouse visa, or will she need her own?

She can obtain a dependent visa once you obtain your extension of stay permit.

We do have belongings we would like to take with us, but not right away. Which visa type is most helpfull for this?

A retirement visa does not allow your personal items to be brought in duty free. Any of the other extension of stay permits will work. Even the One year multiple entry visa with a one year work permit.

What about a car, motorcycle, and electronics, buy there or bring?

I would recommend buying here because the voltage is different.

You'll need a one year work permit as a secondhand car/motorcycle is considered restricted goods. Customs will still have duty tax on a car or motorcycle depending on the horsepower, cubic centimeters of the engine and how old the car/motorcycle is.

Under 2000 cc. and 220 horse power, the tax rate is 188% of the estimated value.

Over 2000 cc. and 220 horse power, the tax rate is 236% of the estimated value.

My current plan, based on readings here, is too seek non immigrant business visas and change later to the most appropriate visa. Some time back on this forum it was suggested that a letter to Houston or Denver's consulates with the reason "looking for investment and /or retirement possibilities in Thailand" would be sufficient to gain this visa. Any suggestions?

These Consulates are known to be more liberal than other Embassies/ Consulates in most cases. However my understanding is they still need a Thai company to sponsor you for the reason of investment. I know this has happen in a number of cases but of course it always is the discretion of the Consulate.

Theoretically you could own a bar/restaurant being US citizen but could not work there as such work is restricted to Thai nationals. Yes you will see farangs working in bars everywhere but they are doing so illegally.

This is a misunderstanding by this poster. I guarantee that we have easily over 20 clients that own Bars or are employees of bars and are foreigners and they have work permits to do so. Good news...a work permit can be obtained if you are in the bar business.

www.lawyer th.com

Please e-mail me directly at [email protected] My staff and I look forward to helping you.

[lopburi3]

Just to add that I would agree with Sunbelt and not because they are a sponsor; but because they presented the facts. If you give the reason looking for investment or retirement possibilities believe you will obtain a non immigrant O visa rather than the B type at most US Consulates.

[kdf]

Thanks for such a quick response!! Ole'Irish, I have further questions below.

And thank you sunbelt asia for your addition. FYI, I made 4 emails to the email address from your website starting 12/26. I also attempted 4-5 times to chat with your online representatives. With literally hours of waiting I kept getting the we are busy but will be here as soon as we can response. I understand being busy, I did not understand the lack of email response. I am willing to pay for services and information. I am a man of some means and honor with a belief that those two states are related. A letter stating that I am looking for investments/retirement in Thailand would be true. I understand that your opinion and that of Lopburi are that this would not be sufficient. Is that correct? I understand playing by the rules and easing the machinations of government, but I am a poor dissembler. Of what nature is your letter in support of a business visa?

A few further bits. From these responses, I gather that it should (TITS) not be too difficult to change from retirement to investor or business. Correct?

If my wife is on my visa/extension of stay is she restricted and privileged in the same fashion?

My car is not easily replaced, a 30+ year old classic Lotus, my bike Ducati. I am willing to give them up, but am interested in learning more as to what it might take to bring them. My audio/video gear is very high end and expensive to replace.

Having owned a bar/restaurant or two, I cannot imagine how one can own one without working at it. Is this a semantic, paperwork issue?

I am not familiar with the Amity treaty company status, but would not likely own a business with any partners. I can only trust my interests to myself or a friend and friends, in my experience, make better friends than partners. Therefore this Amity Treaty issue is of interest to me.

Sunbelt, your repsose regarding owning a company with 4 Thai employees was somewhat confusing. You say that I could make an extension without 4 employees, I think. Which is it? I would not initially need 4 employees, but an assistant/interpreter is high on my list. Also I am confused as to the type of visa for which you sponsor folks. At one point you seem to say it is for a business visa, multiple entry, later you say "However my understanding is they still need a Thai company to sponsor you for the reason of investment. " I need a Thai company to sponsor an investment visa? I may be confused on the visa versus extension of stay terms. To get there I need a visa, to stay I need an extension of stay and in some cases a yearly visa renewal, right?

I appreciate all help offered and hope that these issues are of value to others.

thanks

KDF

[Sunbelt Asia]

FYI, I made 4 emails to the email address from your website starting 12/26. I also attempted 4-5 times to chat with your online representatives. With literally hours of waiting I kept getting the we are busy but will be here as soon as we can response.

I understand as the fault lies with me then as I was on Holidays till Jan 8th and the online rep was filling in for my meetings as well. This main rep did have a full slate filling in for me and of course even though we have 45 staff, around 7 other people were on Holiday as well. I also for the first time in 5 years, took a true Holiday with no e-mail contact. I sincerely apologize that your questions were not answer in a more timely fashion.

letter stating that I am looking for investments/retirement in Thailand would be true. I understand that your opinion and that of Lopburi are that this would not be sufficient. Is that correct? I understand playing by the rules and easing the machinations of government, but I am a poor dissembler. Of what nature is your letter in support of a business visa?

Our letter would state that you are exploring the idea of investing in a business in Thailand. As for this letter being required or not, it depends with the Consulate/Embassy. In most all cases a letter and supporting documents are required to obtain a non immigrant business visa. Some exceptions and it lies with the discretion of the officer. There are no black and white rules. Below one of your questions, I list the rules but once again the officer has been known to be more liberal on a case-by-case basis.

A few further bits. From these responses, I gather that it should (TITS) not be too difficult to change from retirement to investor or business. Correct?

Correct as long as you have a visa to begin with and you meet that criteria to apply for the extension of stay for that class of permit. That criterion applies for the change of visa as well.

If my wife is on my visa/extension of stay is she restricted and privileged in the same fashion?

yes

My car is not easily replaced, a 30+ year old classic Lotus, my bike Ducati. I am willing to give them up, but am interested in learning more as to what it might take to bring them. My audio/video gear is very high end and expensive to replace.

A non immigrant visa with a work permit are required for you to import the car and bike. You will need to pay the duty tax.

As for the audio/video gear, in case where the household effects are electrical appliances, only ONE unit each of such items is eligible for tax and duty free allowance. However, if it is the family change of residence, TWO units each of the items will be allowed to bring in tax and duty free. Any excess unit shall be subject to regular taxes and duties, and Customs will place the items that have the lowest rate of duty under tax and duty exemption.

Having owned a bar/restaurant or two, I cannot imagine how one can own one without working at it. Is this a semantic, paperwork issue

If you are working in the bar/restaurant. You must have a work permit. In refrence to a work permit in a bar or restaurant, every client that we ever applied for, has gotten a work permit.

I am not familiar with the Amity treaty company status, but would not likely own a business with any partners. I can only trust my interests to myself or a friend and friends, in my experience, make better friends than partners. Therefore this Amity Treaty issue is of interest to me.

The Amity treaty is on hold. No definitive time that the window will be reopen, if ever. It hinges on the FTA agreement between Thailand and the USA and how these negotiations go.

However their are Amity treaty companies for sale that you can acquire and be 100% owner of.

Their are also various strategies employed where if you were a minor shareholder you still would have control over the company and you can protect your interest.

Sunbelt, your repsose regarding owning a company with 4 Thai employees was somewhat confusing. You say that I could make an extension without 4 employees, I think.

I stated...

Extension of Stay based on Business. If you acquire a company and employ 4 Thais per work permit with a minimum salary of 5.430 Baht per month ( Bangkok). You can obtain an extension of stay permit based on business. You will not need to leave the country.

I also stated

Multiple Entry Visa. Sunbelt can sponsor you for this type of visa. You then can change this later to a retirement, investment or even an extension of stay based on business. You also could continue using this visa if you acquire a business and you will not be employing 4 Thais, you still can obtain a work permit and utilize this one year multiple entry visa. ( This will require traveling outside Thailand every 90 days)

So let me try to say it again in another matter...

Extension of stay based on business and in the food/bar industry will require 4 Thai employees per work permit with a minimum salary of 5,430 Baht per month. This permit allows you to stay and no need to travel every 90 days.

One Year multiple entry visa ... does not require any Thai staff when you obtain a work permit. It does require you to leave every 90 days.

I would not initially need 4 employees, but an assistant/interpreter is high on my list..

If you employed one Thai employee and your company objective was " Consultant" Then only 1 Thai employee is required per work permit for an extension of stay based on business. If you wanted to qualify with this objective. You can change it later when you start up/acquire a restaurant bar, add the " selling food and drink" objective and hire three more Thai staff. On the otherhand the One year multiple visa is an option with no Thai staff required.

Also I am confused as to the type of visa for which you sponsor folks. At one point you seem to say it is for a business visa, multiple entry, later you say "However my understanding is they still need a Thai company to sponsor you for the reason of investment.

A sponsoring letter we give folks is that they are considering investing in a business in Thailand. The Consulate at their discretion on a case-by-case basis will stamp the passport with a "B" visa ( B stands for business.)

I need a Thai company to sponsor an investment visa?

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

Click on Consular Services

Then Click on Visa

NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (May required the approval from the Ministry Concerns from Thailand in case by case and required invitation letter from Thailand)

Purpose of visit: BUSINESS and CONFERENCE (requiring the business letter with letter-head explains purpose of visit, also included name of company, organization or mission and address in Thailand)

From

http://www.thai-la.net/visa/visa-non-im-b1.htm

Required documents

For the purpose of conducting business and conference (Type “B”) [not including employment]

Your actual Passport or Travel Document.

(Passport or Travel Document must not expire within 6 months and contain at least ONE completely empty visa page).

1 copy of Passport or Travel Document

(Picture page)

1 application form |Download|

(completed and signed by the applicant.)

2 photos

(Passport-type photo, 2” x 2”, color, front-view, taken within 6 months, and write your name and last name on the back of each photo).

An original letter of invitation on company letterhead from the business host in Thailand stating the objective of the visit to Thailand.

A letter from the company stating the objective of the visit to Thailand.

A copy of the host’s Business Registration and Business license which is issued by the Department of Commercial Registration and certified by the Department not less than 3 months

A copy of company’s profile of the business host in Thailand.

A copy of list of shareholders from the business host in Thailand.

Document showing correspondence with trading partners in Thailand.

I may be confused on the visa versus extension of stay terms. To get there I need a visa, to stay I need an extension of stay and in some cases a yearly visa renewal, right?

To stay longer than 90 days( this means no need to travel) you need a extension of stay.

In all extension of stay permit cases, you would need to renew the extension of stay on an annual basis until you became a permanent resident.

I hope these answers have shed some light on your questions. If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

I will also be hosting "Legal Eagle" on http://www.radiobangkok.net next week. Many of these topics will be covered as well. Feel free to listen to the program.

www.lawyer.th.com

[Mobi]

A retirement visa does not allow your personal items to be brought in duty free. Any of the other extension of stay permits will work. Even the One year multiple entry visa with a one year work permit.

Hi Sunbelt,

I hate to disagree with you, as you're clearly the expert and know far more than I could ever know on these matters. HOWEVER, I have a very good friend in the shipping and forwarding business in Bangkok, and a couple of years ago I asked him about shipping in some personal effects on a retirement visa. Like you, he said I would need a work permit to get it in duty free. He then went to some convention of freight clearers and customs officials and asked about clearing with a retirement visa. They told him that a reirement visa was acceptable. I made the shipment (quite large) and he asked for a copy of my passport with visa - re-checked with customs and they reconfirmed, no problem. Shipment arrived; sent my passport to customs to clear the shipment. Shipment cleared - NO DUTY, NO BACK HANDERS. If you don't believe me I can give you the name of the man and his shipping company and you can check for yourself. I think it is pretty important that you get this advice correct, don't you?

[Sunbelt Asia]

A retirement visa does not allow your personal items to be brought in duty free. Any of the other extension of stay permits will work. Even the One year multiple entry visa with a one year work permit.

Hi Sunbelt,

I hate to disagree with you, as you're clearly the expert and know far more than I could ever know on these matters. HOWEVER, I have a very good friend in the shipping and forwarding business in Bangkok, and a couple of years ago I asked him about shipping in some personal effects on a retirement visa. Like you, he said I would need a work permit to get it in duty free. He then went to some convention of freight clearers and customs officials and asked about clearing with a retirement visa. They told him that a reirement visa was acceptable. I made the shipment (quite large) and he asked for a copy of my passport with visa - re-checked with customs and they reconfirmed, no problem. Shipment arrived; sent my passport to customs to clear the shipment. Shipment cleared - NO DUTY, NO BACK HANDERS. If you don't believe me I can give you the name of the man and his shipping company and you can check for yourself. I think it is pretty important that you get this advice correct, don't you?

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/House...nuNme=HouseHold

On the official government website they state in red

Note : Nonresidents entering into the Kingdom with a non-immigrant visa "code O" who wish to retire in Thailand or accompany spouses of Thai residents are not qualified for (1)

But always remember this is Thailand. :-)

www.lawyer.th.com

[kdf]

Thanks to all for the info. I will have to review these data rich posts to get it all. Forums like this are invaluable.

Sunbelt, good on you for taking a real vacation. I am inclined to follow your advise and after some looking around at your site, I see that your company has MUCH to offer of interested to me. (Off topic alert) Your executive desk program looks interesting. Can mail and/or call forwarding services also be purchased? I now believe that a business visa, multiple entry will serve us best. It can easily be changed to fit our situation as it develops. I must review your massive post, but I assume that the multiple entry b visa can be extended only with Thai employees. Does a consultancy business need to make money or just pay taxes?

When reasonably informed and experienced people disagree on facts, I surmise that the "facts" are fluid and dependent on interpretation. When these same folks differ on opinion (retirement vs business visa), it is usually because there is not that great a gap between them.

Again I appreciate all this input.

KDF

[lopburi3]

A retirement visa does not allow your personal items to be brought in duty free. Any of the other extension of stay permits will work. Even the One year multiple entry visa with a one year work permit.

Hi Sunbelt,

I hate to disagree with you, as you're clearly the expert and know far more than I could ever know on these matters. HOWEVER, I have a very good friend in the shipping and forwarding business in Bangkok, and a couple of years ago I asked him about shipping in some personal effects on a retirement visa. Like you, he said I would need a work permit to get it in duty free. He then went to some convention of freight clearers and customs officials and asked about clearing with a retirement visa. They told him that a reirement visa was acceptable. I made the shipment (quite large) and he asked for a copy of my passport with visa - re-checked with customs and they reconfirmed, no problem. Shipment arrived; sent my passport to customs to clear the shipment. Shipment cleared - NO DUTY, NO BACK HANDERS. If you don't believe me I can give you the name of the man and his shipping company and you can check for yourself. I think it is pretty important that you get this advice correct, don't you?

That was then - the red ink posted by Sunbelt is now. That paragraph just appeared within the last year or so.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Your executive desk program looks interesting.Can mail and/or call forwarding services also be purchased?

It is included free in the price for the Executive Desk.

I must review your massive post, but I assume that the multiple entry b visa can be extended only with Thai employees.

Correct

Does a consultancy business need to make money or just pay taxes?

On a personal level as an Employer/Employee you must pay personal tax. On a corporate level, the company must to file audited financials every year. The third year is when the Thai Labor Dept looks more closely at the business to determine if this business is just a hobby. If you pay any corporate tax at all, then normally it is not considered a hobby and your work permit is easily renewed.

That was then - the red ink posted by Sunbelt is now. That paragraph just appeared within the last year or so.

www.lawyer.th.com