Settlement In Uk , Questions About New Financial Requirements Savings Level ?

[DanielUK]

It is complicated. Basically, you can meet the financial requirement by income from salaried employment or from self employment, or from savings. If you have no income at all, then you require 62,500 GBP in savings ( to sponsor a spouse). In some cases, for example salaried employment, you can combine the minimum salary requirement with savings, but you cannot do this if you are self employed.

The amount of savings required is worked out by a formula. Basically, it is the 16,000 you mention plus the difference between your income and the financial requirement of 18,600 multiplied by 2.5. So, if you had no income at all, the difference between your income and the 18,600 minimum income is the full 18,600. Multiply this by 2.5, equals 46,500. Then add the government's assessed minimum savings of 16,000, and that equals the 62,500. For one child to be added the minimum financial requirement goes up to 22,400, and the same calculation formula is used, giving the 72,000 saving requirement.

If the child is yours ( you are shown on the birth certificate as the father ), and you are a British citizen, then the child is probably entitled to a British passport. No need for a visa, and no need to be added into the financial calculation.

Hi All,

I joined this forum just so I could write a reply to this topic and ask for help in understanding the new financial requirement. I'm devastated to learn and read the above quote from VisasPlus. I have spent 2 years trying to get my wife back to the UK and we thought we had jumped the last hurdle but this news changes everything. My wife and I paid good money to a solicitor to get us through the visa process. After going though the process once already and doing silly amounts of reading, I learned that the solicitors we paid had no idea what they were talking about and before I could try getting our money back they went bankrupt.

I thought I had understood the financial requirement but reading VisasPlus's post it seems i got it completely wrong.

We were going to use the savings option only, as i decided to live with my wife rather then returning to the UK and therefore have only been working self employed. I had thought the 16k was all we needed to have in the bank for 6 months, learning and understanding the above quote, there is no way we could get to 62.5k in the bank. So it looks like sadly i'm going to have to fly back to the UK without her and get back into full time employment.

My question is do i just need to earn more then 18,600 to meet the financial requirement, or do i still need the 16k savings in the bank?

My last 3 roles in the UK, I have had a basic salary higher then 30k, based on the calculations above as long as my basic salary is more then 25k does that mean we meet the financial requirement without the savings? (I'm aware i need to hold the job for 6 months prior to applying for the visa)

[VisasPlus]

It is complicated. Basically, you can meet the financial requirement by income from salaried employment or from self employment, or from savings. If you have no income at all, then you require 62,500 GBP in savings ( to sponsor a spouse). In some cases, for example salaried employment, you can combine the minimum salary requirement with savings, but you cannot do this if you are self employed.

The amount of savings required is worked out by a formula. Basically, it is the 16,000 you mention plus the difference between your income and the financial requirement of 18,600 multiplied by 2.5. So, if you had no income at all, the difference between your income and the 18,600 minimum income is the full 18,600. Multiply this by 2.5, equals 46,500. Then add the government's assessed minimum savings of 16,000, and that equals the 62,500. For one child to be added the minimum financial requirement goes up to 22,400, and the same calculation formula is used, giving the 72,000 saving requirement.

If the child is yours ( you are shown on the birth certificate as the father ), and you are a British citizen, then the child is probably entitled to a British passport. No need for a visa, and no need to be added into the financial calculation.

Hi All,

I joined this forum just so I could write a reply to this topic and ask for help in understanding the new financial requirement. I'm devastated to learn and read the above quote from VisasPlus. I have spent 2 years trying to get my wife back to the UK and we thought we had jumped the last hurdle but this news changes everything. My wife and I paid good money to a solicitor to get us through the visa process. After going though the process once already and doing silly amounts of reading, I learned that the solicitors we paid had no idea what they were talking about and before I could try getting our money back they went bankrupt.

I thought I had understood the financial requirement but reading VisasPlus's post it seems i got it completely wrong.

We were going to use the savings option only, as i decided to live with my wife rather then returning to the UK and therefore have only been working self employed. I had thought the 16k was all we needed to have in the bank for 6 months, learning and understanding the above quote, there is no way we could get to 62.5k in the bank. So it looks like sadly i'm going to have to fly back to the UK without her and get back into full time employment.

My question is do i just need to earn more then 18,600 to meet the financial requirement, or do i still need the 16k savings in the bank?

My last 3 roles in the UK, I have had a basic salary higher then 30k, based on the calculations above as long as my basic salary is more then 25k does that mean we meet the financial requirement without the savings? (I'm aware i need to hold the job for 6 months prior to applying for the visa)

The financial requirement is met if you can show annual income of 18,600 GBP, with, as you say, a minimum of 6 months with the same employer. To get a gross annual salary from your 6 months employment the ECO will take the lowest monthly salary in the 6 months of employment, and multiply it by 12. If you meet this requirement, then you don't need to show any savings.

I fully understand your feelings on this, and it's the sort of thing that British sponsors should be bringing to their MP's attention. Nothing will be changed if the situation is accepted.

Edited September 14, 2012 by VisasPlus

[matsky13]

I wonder though if i was to let my current home out and took out a new mortgage for a new house for me and the family to live in I could use that income towards my vissa application financial requirements . Or as i pointed out in my earlier post selling my current home using some as a deposit for new place and the rest sits in the bank for 5 years .

Looks as though letting out your current home is a good idea but how about renting a 2 bed flat until the flr is obtained? That would obviate the need for finding a considerable amount of money to buy another property and raise a mortgage therefore leaving your savings virtually intact and providing an income probably greater than the rental cost of the flat.

Thanks for your reply .Yes its a good idea and i love the word "obviate" I dont ever remember hearing it before . then again i am almost illiterate .I had to look it up !

Yes lots of options and ways to get past the new rules , all of them leave me in a more fragile ecenomic state than i was in before . Making a mockery of the reason behind the rules.

I have avoided being on the benefit system all my life , i have no intention of putting myself in a position where tht is a posible.

[ToHugh]

Hi

I am self employed and have been for 27 years in the service industry. Recently though in the last two years I have suffered in the recession but things are now starting to pick up. My last financial year showed income of under £13000, and a very small private pension.

I have been selling some of my assets which include pictures, antiques and the like to support my Thai wife and our two children who are British.

Previous to the last two years my turnover was in excess of the financial requirement of £18600.

I own my house and have been letting a room for which I receive Housing benefit.

Its not clear in any of the Fnancial Requirement Form or Notes whether this is a "permitted benefit" or not .

Please help as only seems to mention Maternity and Bereavement benefits.

So am hoping I can use earnings from self employment, non-employement income and permitted benefits to make the financial requirement.

Have been watching these blogs for ages and its the only way to get any sense of things.

Excellent. Please help.

[VisasPlus]

Hi

I am self employed and have been for 27 years in the service industry. Recently though in the last two years I have suffered in the recession but things are now starting to pick up. My last financial year showed income of under £13000, and a very small private pension.

I have been selling some of my assets which include pictures, antiques and the like to support my Thai wife and our two children who are British.

Previous to the last two years my turnover was in excess of the financial requirement of £18600.

I own my house and have been letting a room for which I receive Housing benefit.

Its not clear in any of the Fnancial Requirement Form or Notes whether this is a "permitted benefit" or not .

Please help as only seems to mention Maternity and Bereavement benefits.

So am hoping I can use earnings from self employment, non-employement income and permitted benefits to make the financial requirement.

Have been watching these blogs for ages and its the only way to get any sense of things.

Excellent. Please help.

I think you may be getting a little confused. If I read you correctly, the income you receive is not from housing benefit ( you don't receive the housing benefit ), but from rental income from someone who does receive housing benefit. Is that right ?

If you are only renting out a room in your house to this person, then the income cannot be counted as rental income. Paragraph 20© of the Appendix FM-SE states:

20© Any rental income from property, in the UK or overseas, must be from a property that is:

(i) owned by the person;

(ii) not their main residence; and

(iii) if ownership of the property is shared with a third party, only income received from their share of the property can be counted.

I think you would probably fail, as it is your main residence ?

Unfortunately, if I have got the facts right, I don't think you will meet the financial requirement.

[7by7]

I think you would probably fail, as it is your main residence ?

Indeed, From the IDI, Annex FM Section 1.7

5.4.3. In respect of non-employment sorces of income

Property rental income:

The property, in the UK or overseas, must be owned by the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both jointly, and must not be their main residence (and therefore income from a lodger in that residence cannot be counted).................

[ToHugh]

Hi

Many thanks Visasplus its definitely looking that way now.... gonna have to wait another year at least.

Certainly got to get another job in the mean time to bring my income up to and over the £18600.

Worst two years of my life. Thats got to be good timing. Recessions who needs them.

Thanks 7by7 that was the link I read for the first time last night ... and been searching high and low for.

The Annex FM17 says everything. Is it me or have I missed something but the links on the UKBA website do

not explain everything? The content is listed in mid text format and sometimes the links do not work.

There`s no referral to the Appendix 2 (VAF 4A) and vice versa. Its a bit vague.

No point applying for Settlement Visa to get an obvious refusal.

Thanks again for help and advice.

[Kiggs]

No way they can keep this system, its just not fair at all. I'm 30+ earn 30k but have a massive mortgage and credit cards car and all the rest of the crap and qualify. But Mr X who is 50+ nothing to pay each mth and owns a 300k house but earns 15k a year gets the knock back. Someone will take this to court soon I'm sure.

[matsky13]

Hi

I am self employed and have been for 27 years in the service industry. Recently though in the last two years I have suffered in the recession but things are now starting to pick up. My last financial year showed income of under £13000, and a very small private pension.

I have been selling some of my assets which include pictures, antiques and the like to support my Thai wife and our two children who are British.

.

I own my house and have been letting a room for which I receive Housing benefit.

Its not clear in any of the Fnancial Requirement Form or Notes whether this is a "permitted benefit" or not .

Please help as only seems to mention Maternity and Bereavement benefits.

So am hoping I can use earnings from self employment, non-employement income and permitted benefits to make the financial requirement.

Have been watching these blogs for ages and its the only way to get any sense of things.

Excellent. Please help.

Hi ToHugh, I agree the ukba website is terrible ,anyone would think they dont want foreigners to enter the country the way its set out . I had to laugh (through gritted teeth )when i was applying for the visitor visa for my fiancee before the olympics , the hoops you have to jump through just to holliday in the uk its a joke . and they where spending billions to get more people to visit the UK .

They need to sort that website out .

I dont know if you just miss typed your reply above ,"Previous to the last two years my turnover was in excess of the financial requirement of £18600" but as a self employed person i understand they are not interested in your turnover , only your net profit !!! .

Its a stupid way to decide things I agree , we have to get it to the attention of the powers that be , how long it will take before they change it i dont know . I cant understand why they cannot just say anyone is welcome to come to uk if you can support yourself and dont want to rely on public funds.Tthe first time you do , you will have to come in for a chat , and a decision made as to weather you are likely to continue to be a drain on public funds or not , if so , sorry but back to your original country .if its jusa tempory ilness a bit of bad luck or whatever ,maybe come back in a few months and a new decision will be made .

Maybe thats a bit symplistic buit I would love to here everyone elses opinion ! maybe i am off topic , I am not so sure about the forum rules .

This is certainly on topic , What happens to anyone going through the 5 year probation period who finds themselves ill or loooses there job , do they instantly seperate you from your loved ones and deport them ??. and would you then have to start the whole proccess again ?

[bobrussell]

Turnover is irrelevent - profit and income are the only things they are concerned with. You can have a turnover of millions and a profit of £10000 and it won't do (officially)!

The government made it clear that they are not interested in your budget but are keen to make sure that you cannot make any benefits claims! The way things stand it seems the non-EU partner would be expected to leave the country. I assume that this government is not expecting to be in power when this happens as it is clearly going to be a big mess!

[7by7]

Its a stupid way to decide things I agree , we have to get it to the attention of the powers that be , how long it will take before they change it i dont know .

The 'powers that be' being the government? They don't need it brought to their attention as it was them that brought in these new rules and set these limits! They'll change it only when a human rights case has reached the European Court and then only if the court tells them to change it.

Don't expect a change of government to alter anything; this whole process of making family migration more expensive and more difficult was started by Labour; the coalition is only following where Labour led.

I cant understand why they cannot just say anyone is welcome to come to uk if you can support yourself and dont want to rely on public funds

Prior to 9th July, this was basically the requirement; you simply had to show that you could support and accommodate yourselves without recourse to public funds. No need for any 'chat' if you claimed any, because any such claim by a person subject to immigration control and excluded from public funds would have been refused. Still will.

What happens to anyone going through the 5 year probation period who finds themselves ill or loooses there job , do they instantly seperate you from your loved ones and deport them ??. and would you then have to start the whole proccess again ?

A good question. The financial requirement has to be met at every application stage; the initial visa, the 30 month extension and the ILR application after 5 years. No one can predict what may happen over 5 years; although for the in UK applications the applicant's earnings can be taken into account.

Remember, though, that the required figure is going to increase each year by a figure determined by the government; will earnings increase by as much? Not if the rate both the previous and this government have increased visa fees by each year is any indication; that's always been above inflation!

This has, despite the public consultation last year and the similar plans mooted by the previous government, been rushed and not been properly thought through. The only people who are going to benefit will be the human rights lawyers. large amounts of cash coming their way soon, I suspect.

[matsky13]

Some good points 7 by 7 .Lawyers getting rich now thats a surprise .

I am very Nieve , It wasnt until speaking about this at the weekend ,i realised .foreign visitors have the option of throwing there pasport away and refusing to tell the authorities where they are from , or claiming asylum for some bogus reason !. So my simplistic view above is irelevent anyway .

You seem very knowledgable about all this stuff, Could you point me in the direction of some information regarding the Labour government starting this ball rolling , As i hope to visit my local MP (Labour) ,and set out my case , But I am sure they will blame the current government ,so it wiould be nice to be able to hit back with some print outs of there guilt !.

I dont expect my moaning to my MP to make any difference for my case , but its all i can do to make my voice heard !

I will find a way around my situation .It may be messy and take longer than i would like , But i will be succsesfull. (posetive thinking here !!)

But i am in a much better situation than lots of others I am sure ,dont get me wrong it will be bloody difficult. but i will get there. I just hope as the goal post seem to change I can continue to qualify ,

[malct]

This is one of the reasons why i have never voted in years, it doesn't matter what party you support, They will all screw your lives up one way or another.

Its going to be like selling your parents house to pay for Hospital care in their latter years, People will find themselves selling there homes in order to get money in the bank to show savings in order for them to live with their wifes and all this costs money too.

Maybe a lot of people giving up on the UK and moving to their wifes country

Edited September 28, 2012 by malct

[crazydrummerpauly]

One possible problem is that the Savings amount is a kind of 'fall-back' facility in the government's thinking, since if you have NO income, you cannot spend it to live anyway - well, not all of it - since you will still need £62,500 at the 'Further Leave to Remain' stage, and £34,600 at the 'Indefinite Leave to Remain' stage if that's the goal.

[crazydrummerpauly]

UK is by no means the only country to have a financial requirement for spouse and partners. It is, however the second highest in its requirement, surpassed only by Norway. You might find this interesting :

Approximate income required for sponsors to reunite with spouse/partner (as annual income)

Norway NOK 232,400 (£24,850)

UK £18,600, level generally below income-related benefits

Netherlands ¤18,872 (£15,168), excludes certain benefits

Belgium ¤15,084 (£12,123), excludes certain benefits

Denmark No fixed threshold, excludes certain benefits, plus bond of DEK50,000 (£5,405)

Germany No fixed threshold, excludes certain benefits

Switzerland Discretionary, depends canton-by-canton

Ireland Discretionary

USA $18,912 (£12,079)

France ¤12,840 (£10,320), excludes certain benefits

Finland ¤10,800 (£8,681)

Austria ¤9,521 (£7,652), excludes certain benefits

Spain ¤6,384 (£5,131)

Sweden SEK52,488 (£4,829)

Italy ¤5,350 (£4,300)

Portugal ¤5,064 (£4,070)

Poland ¤1,440 (£1,157)

Canada None, only for parents or other adults, generally CAN$22,229 (£14,003)

New Zealand None, only for parents or other adults, NZD$27,203 (£13,960)

Australia None, only for parents or other adults, AUD$10,000 (£6,561)

For once, i'm speechless. But thanks for the data :-(

[crazydrummerpauly]

Just when it couldn't look worse, for those who just might sneak past the new financial hurdles via a Carer's Allowance or Attendance Allowance - type exemption, this last paragraph announces yet more benefit changes in 2013 which could pull the rug from that route -

"The basis for and operation of the new financial requirement will be reviewed in line with the

implementation of the Government’s welfare reforms. These include the introduction of

Personal Independence Payment from April 2013 and the roll-out of Universal Credit from

October 2013. In particular, before April 2013 the Government will review the treatment

under the financial requirement of disabled people and carers, with a view to ensuring that

the basis for and operation of the financial requirement properly reflects the Government’s

welfare reforms. Any changes will be announced in due course, but an applicant –

sponsored by a person in receipt of a specified disability-related benefit or Carer’s

Allowance – who will be exempt from the financial requirement from 9 July 2012 cannot

expect that they will necessarily remain exempt from April 2013."

( Bold added )

[crazydrummerpauly]

THIS is the full monte, Home Office document, and the best of British luck in understanding / getting to the end without a migraine ! --->

STATEMENT OF INTENT:

FAMILY MIGRATION

June 2012.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf