Boat Confiscation In Thailand

[chipchiptv]

I am in a dispute with a Thai marina over a bill. I do not believe that I am responsible for the charges, but the marina manager will not discus it. He only wants to discuss when I am coming in to pay the bill. I am a Western Expat living in Thailand. Some of my Expat friends have told me to pay the marina whether or not I owe the money, because the Thai owned marina can go to the Thai Authorites and get approval to confiscate my boat, blacklist the boat from any services or fuel at all Thai marinas, and prevent me from ever selling the boat, and also cause me problems with Immigration

Is this true? What defenses do I have?

Chip

[chipchiptv]

Additional Information: The boat is not in the marina.

Chip

[LivinginKata]

I think this might be better in the General forum ---> moving

[Pseudolus]

You're friends are most likely correct and the marina guy can slip some cash in the right places to cause you real grief in this regard. Depends how much he is asking for I guess. If it is a stupid amount, sell the boat in another country would be the simplest option after first trying to negotiate the amount down.

[submaniac]

umm...with all due respect, if you don't truly know an answer, then please don't throw disinformation out. I would hate to think someone would flee the country and sell his boat based upon someone else's guess.

OP: I am not an expert. I don't own a boat, never owned a boat, don't plan on owning a boat. The threats that you are worried about, I just don't see how they could happen. If the boat is in not in the Marina, how can they seize the boat? As far as I know, a boat could be registered in another country. I don't even know how the Thai police would go about seizing a boat as they wouldn't know where it is, there may or may not be a "title", all that other stuff. My best opinion is to either talk to a lawyer (not that expensive in Thailand) or wait for a Thaivisa sailor to come along and maybe answer your question.

[Pseudolus]

umm...with all due respect, if you don't truly know an answer, then please don't throw disinformation out. I would hate to think someone would flee the country and sell his boat based upon someone else's guess.

OP: I am not an expert. I don't own a boat, never owned a boat, don't plan on owning a boat. The threats that you are worried about, I just don't see how they could happen. If the boat is in not in the Marina, how can they seize the boat? As far as I know, a boat could be registered in another country. I don't even know how the Thai police would go about seizing a boat as they wouldn't know where it is, there may or may not be a "title", all that other stuff. My best opinion is to either talk to a lawyer (not that expensive in Thailand) or wait for a Thaivisa sailor to come along and maybe answer your question.

Suggest you take a little peep at the Thai vessel Act matey - they bloomin well can confiscate for any number of reasons. It would not be for the money owed to the marina; that is a civil matter. However, this is Thailand, and unless the boat is registered in his wife's name, there are many ways indeed why they could confiscate it with relative ease. Would not be the first time the cops did a friend a favour where they end up splitting the proceeds of something they sell on. It the boat is not registered in Thailand, it can be confiscated until the moneys are paid to the marina; He should have signed an agreement for using the moorings in the first place. Have a read of it - the answer will be there.

Confiscation order on your boat will be enacted as soon as he pops into a marina / moorings.

So pay up or get rid of it abroad I reckon; after of course trying to negotiate the lowest price.

[submaniac]

arghh me matey, I have indeed read thar Thailand vessels act. It be here: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-vessel-act-translation-of-boating-and-ship-act-law.html

Thar be no seizing a vessel save for provision 62 which does not seem to apply. Arggggghhhh.

[Pseudolus]

arghh me matey, I have indeed read thar Thailand vessels act. It be here: http://www.samuifors...ip-act-law.html

Thar be no seizing a vessel save for provision 62 which does not seem to apply. Arggggghhhh.

Arrrgrgh me hearty - me thinks your eyepatch is covering your good eye.I

Section 54. Any vessel of a person under section 7 qualified for a Thai vessel registration under this Act but has not yet been registered, or has been registered as a Thai vessel but the registration has terminated by any cause as specified in section 22, shall not be entitled to any privilege to be vested to a Thai vessel under this Act. However, it shall be liable for a fee, to be confiscated and liable for any offence committed in the vessel or by the crew. The prosecution of the vessel shall be made in the same manner as doing with a registered Thai vessel.

I was not contending that for the fines the boat would be confiscated me landlubber you, but this beeee the kingdom of thailand, and in these waters, as with the land, people use the police and courts to fill their treasure chests with booty. If the ship be registered in Thailand, and a farang claims to own it, it can be done. A man with a Marina will know all about this kind of extortion and will have the connections to do it meee lover.

[Soutpeel]

I think both of you correct in certain respects, while the vessels is in Thai waters and remains in Thai waters this would be purely civil matter, however if the OP tried to do a bunk from Thai marina/ waters or even leavinga marina without paying what is due then, then yes the vessel could be siezed/impounded in terms of the Thai vessel act.

I suppose the question the OP how much money is involved here ?....if its small amount in dispute and you are making this stand on moral grounds I would suggest you pay up as the marina owner's could make real problems for you as be assured the owners of the marina will have contacts in the martime police etc, and even with the dispute aside, if they get involved they will find something to make your life hard.

If the amount is significant, then retain a Thai lawyer to fight/negotiate this for you

Edited September 4, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Pseudolus]

I think both of you correct in certain respects, while the vessels is in Thai waters and remains in Thai waters this would be purely civil matter, however if the OP tried to do a bunk from Thai marina/ waters without paying what is due then, then yes the vessel could be siezed/impounded in terms of the Thai vessel act.

I suppose the question the OP how much money is involved here ?....if its small amount in dispute and you are making this stand on moral grounds I would suggest you pay up as the marina owner's could make real problems for you as be assured the owners of the marina will have contacts in the martime police etc, and even with the dispute aside, if they get involved they will find something to make your life hard.

If the amount is significant, then retain a Thai lawyer to fight/negotiate this for you

Absolutely. However, it sounds as if the marina owner has not gone legal yet, so if it is a stupid amount that is being claimed (such as, he hit another boat causing 2m baht worth of damage) and the boat is not in this guys marina right now, the simplest action is to re register the boat get the boat out, legally, and sort it out in another country where the boat can not be confiscated.

[haybilly]

I do hope that someone can come along and give the OP some real, genuine information--best answer so far--consult a lawyer, and preferably a foreign owned company; it's many years since I was in Phuket, which is where I see you are based, but there used to be a guy called Sam who helped me a lot with contracts, leases etc... but I don't know if he is still working there.

Sorry--since I was writing my reply--I type slowly--there have been a couple of useful posts.

Oh more edits--I don't know where I got the thought that you were based in Phuket--must be the medication--sorry for my useless info.

Edited September 4, 2012 by haybilly

[ajarnpot]

suggest you take your boat out on open water since it is not in marina. Then find a ship and board it, shout slogans such as oo ar, and give us all your valuables,

this way you can raise funds and pay marina

win win situation

[David006]

don't know how much is involved as you care not to tell us but best solution is just to pay up and and ship out..you probably don't need the hassle and potential for who knows what in retaliation..you is Farang remember...had a friend in similar circumstances ....got less than subtle threats....he paid....

[Soutpeel]

suggest you take your boat out on open water since it is not in marina. Then find a ship and board it, shout slogans such as oo ar, and give us all your valuables,

this way you can raise funds and pay marina

win win situation

He could also considering hiring some Somalians to do this job for him, they are very good pirates by all accounts

[siampreggers]

Welcome to the joys of owning things in Thailand.

Pay what the Thai says or perhaps have a nice load of drugs put onto it and the police called when you fail to negotiate.

Thailand's for renting and having fun it, not buying serious things in.

[Pseudolus]

Welcome to the joys of owning things in Thailand.

Pay what the Thai says or perhaps have a nice load of drugs put onto it and the police called when you fail to negotiate.

Thailand's for renting and having fun it, not buying serious things in.

Absolutely

If it Flies, Floats of F#$ks, it's cheaper and easier to rent.

[Soutpeel]

Welcome to the joys of owning things in Thailand.

Pay what the Thai says or perhaps have a nice load of drugs put onto it and the police called when you fail to negotiate.

Thailand's for renting and having fun it, not buying serious things in.

So what you are suggesting is that in the UK/US or any other farangland country were someone hasnt paid a bill, or an amount is disputed no action is taken ie upto and including calling the Police ?

This dispute it appears has nothing to do with owning things in Thailand, the OP has been presented a bill, he disputes the bill and the marina owner will not talk to him...thats it, it appears the Marina owner hasnt even indicated he will go to the Police....

the police angle, confiscation, blacklisting has been suggested by the local "expert" farangs not the marina owner

[siampreggers]

^ I'm sure the Thai who is demanding the money will just let it go and forget about it rather than go out of his way to cause problems, possibly problems that will also make him a nice wedge of farang money.

It's in the Thai's (business) nature to forgive and forget. Especially when it comes to doing farangs over for money should they feel aggrieved or slighted and they can get a nice chunk of cash out of it.

Thais are smarter than the average Westerner when it comes to 'business' the Thai way, they will always win.

Rent, have fun and don't get involved. Thailand's so much nicer this way.

Edited September 4, 2012 by siampreggers

[Pseudolus]

^ I'm sure the Thai who is demanding the money will just let it go and forget about it rather than go out of his way to cause problems, possibly problems that will also make him some nice farang money.

It's in the Thai's nature, forgive and forget. Especially when it comes to farangs and money.

LOL - lovely use of sarcasm there. Masterful.

Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight.

[DLock]

What are the disputed amounts for?

Marina fees are marina fees - usually berth, fuel and utilities. What could a marina charge for that you feel is not your responsibility? Did you damage something?

Given the boat is not in the marina, he will have to file charges before a boat can be seized. He may be able to get a lien or an emergency injunction on the boat so you can't sell it, but you could always go to Langkawi and berth it there...but troubles will follow the boat if he is successful. He may be able to use connections to stop you getting fuel, but it's more a threat. Immigration problems are a long way off...but using connections to make your life stressful is the norm.

...but having said all that, unless you are very confident you can defend your case with clear proof, I'd pay it and sleep better.

Where is the boat registered? I assume Thailand.

[siampreggers]

I'd pay it and sleep better.

It's a tough one. Does being done without lube by another bloke make one sleep better.

Edited September 4, 2012 by siampreggers

[DLock]

I'd pay it and sleep better.

It's a tough one. Does being done without lube by another bloke make one sleep better.

You don't read so good.

I said "unless you are very confident you can defend your case with clear proof, I'd pay it and sleep better". If you had any knowledge of the Thai legal system and how it works, perhaps you would understand my statement.

What makes you think he doesn't owe the said money and that the marina owner is screwing him?

What's to say the OP just doesn't want to pay what he considers exorbitant fees?

You must be one of those forever "hard done by Thai's" guys that frequent this forum.

[chipchiptv]

The .boat is Thai registered.

Chip

[siampreggers]

I'd pay it and sleep better.

It's a tough one. Does being done without lube by another bloke make one sleep better.

You don't read so good.

I said "unless you are very confident you can defend your case with clear proof, I'd pay it and sleep better". If you had any knowledge of the Thai legal system and how it works, perhaps you would understand my statement.

What makes you think he doesn't owe the said money and that the marina owner is screwing him?

What's to say the OP just doesn't want to pay what he considers exorbitant fees?

You must be one of those forever "hard done by Thai's" guys that frequent this forum.

Seems you're one of the oh-serious-guys who cannot spot or handle some word play.

Thanks for all that effort though, it's quite amusing.

Edited September 4, 2012 by siampreggers

[Pacificperson]

I would suggest doing a Google search on "maritime liens" and see how they are handled. I don't know Thai law but it looks as if a boat can be confiscated for a debt without too big of a deal.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Pacificperson

[Soutpeel]

The .boat is Thai registered.

Chip

Ok but what exactly is the issue then

[siampreggers]

I would suggest doing a Google search on "maritime liens" and see how they are handled. I don't know Thai law but it looks as if a boat can be confiscated for a debt without too big of a deal.

I'm sure they can if the owner is a farang and there's a Thai who wants some money out of him.

[Soutpeel]

I would suggest doing a Google search on "maritime liens" and see how they are handled. I don't know Thai law but it looks as if a boat can be confiscated for a debt without too big of a deal.

I'm sure they can if the owner is a farang and there's a Thai who wants some money out of him.

Think there is more to this story...appears the OP might be thinking of doing a midnight bunk.. ...posted not 15 minutes ago

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/581892-sailing-thai-sailboat-to-another-country/

[DLock]

I'd pay it and sleep better.

It's a tough one. Does being done without lube by another bloke make one sleep better.

You don't read so good.

I said "unless you are very confident you can defend your case with clear proof, I'd pay it and sleep better". If you had any knowledge of the Thai legal system and how it works, perhaps you would understand my statement.

What makes you think he doesn't owe the said money and that the marina owner is screwing him?

What's to say the OP just doesn't want to pay what he considers exorbitant fees?

You must be one of those forever "hard done by Thai's" guys that frequent this forum.

Seems you're one of the oh-serious-guys who cannot spot or handle some word play.

Thanks for all that effort though, it's quite amusing.

My pleasure.

You word play must be over my head.

I just see a guy who was called out for being slow who was trying to be smart@ss and it failed.

[chipchiptv]

The boat is legally registered in Thailand. The Thailand Vessel Act authorizes confiscation under Section 54 for noncompliance in registering under Sec. 22, and confiscation under Section 68 for violations of Secs. 47 or 51. This boat and it's Farang owner are in full compliance of all of these sections, and to my knowledge, under full compliance with every Section of the Thailand Vessel Act.

This is a civil matter. A Police complaint should be for criminal matters.

I live here,and are familiar with the corruption of the authorities, especially involving a Thai national/company vs. a Farang individual. However, knowledge, including "local knowledge", is indispensable in order to make a decision.

Thank you to all who have responded to my inquiry.

Chip