Depressed Woman 'fed Herself To Crocodiles' At Popular Thai Tourist Attraction

[TwoDogz]

Bit in the Thai press about it:

http://www.thairath....ewspaper/289022

http://www.thairath....ewspaper/289009

I'm not opening those as there's probably graphic pictures of crocs eating people... just in case we cannot imagine what such a scene would look like.

nothing gory there....dammit

[spidermike007]

The mystery has deepened because the Crocodile Farm have reportedly denied the incident took place.

Does it sometimes feel like the Thai people would not be able to engage in honesty, if their lives depended upon it? Why is it such a first instinct to lie here? Why is there no connection between their spiritual beliefs, and the daily behavior? Why is telling a lie considered OK, and acceptable behavior? Why is there not more emphasis on honesty? I do not care about the ridiculous concept of "face". We all know that is simply an excuse for avoiding any inner work or introspection. There is no reality to face, it is merely a huge excuse to behave improperly. It is getting to the point, where I find it nearly impossible to believe anything that most Thai people say. There are some exceptions. I do know some honorable Thai people. But, the percentage of people who possess little honor, when it comes to honesty, is shocking. Why is that? Does anyone have a good explanation for this?

Mmm - 'face' - such a big important topic, and a lot more nuanced than it having 'no reality', since its purpose is exactly the opposite, to maintain a certain way of 'doing' reality. (Since 'reality' is mostly a social construct in every culture.) As for lying - well, people all over the world do that routinely to maintain some level of order - hence the old joke about honesty being the worst policy for a long marriage ! I completely agree though about it being virtually impossible to get interested in and trust what most Thais say - its just that 'lying' for them doesn't carry the same connotation of 'wrong-doing' as it does in most 'western' cultures. For anyone really interested, this a great short essay on 'face' in different cultures around the world ::: http://www.transitio..._in_china.shtml

One of the crucial differences between 'face' in the west, and 'face' in the east, is that 'orientals' will strive to save another's face as much as they try to save their own. In the 'west' face-saving is more often - though not always - a self-interested exercise. See the example in the essay of the son with the PhD not wanting to impact on his father's reduced status in the world due to unemployment. One thing's for sure - the tensions that occur due to the eastern obsession with 'face' can cause huge trouble for 'east-west' relations and relationships - in fact it can destroy the latter if not handled deftly.

Interesting observations. Thanks for that. When I say that face is a non-reality, what I meant is that most of the time it seems to be an excuse for a lack of self examination, resolution, analysis, and introspection. If you lean on the concept too much it prevents you from growing, and evolving as a soul. I believe that "face" is an non-spiritual a belief as there is in this world. In the West, many of us just do not care. I for one could give a rat's ass what people think of me. It is what I think of myself that is of importance. In Asia, it seems to be the opposite, and it feels like there is a tremendous amount of low self esteem in this region, for some reason. Am I way off on this?

[maidu]

Not ridiculous. You ask 'what does this have to do with euthenasia?' It does relate to euthenasia. For anyone to consider throwing themselves in a croc pit is sad indeed, for several reasons. If the sad woman had an option for euthenesia, then at least she would have a dignified, painless way to go. Rather than be ripped apart by beasts, which might take between two and twenty minutes to die in excrutiating agony. What if the crocs had just been fed? Crocs in the wild eat every few days or weeks. She might get partially ripped apart, and then left to suffer for hours, lying in croc dung.

Personally, I think the dramatic suicide story is a crock of bull. Thais have been known to do very odd things in order to fake death, and avoid paying debts.

....and now, what about copy-cats?

It has absolutely nothing to do with assisted suicide in this case,..... euthenasia relates to people who are terminally ill/in capciated in some way and make rational/sound minded decision to choose the time and place of their death with some dignity, this woman by virtue of the fact that she may or may not have decided to swim with crocodiles suggests she is not of sound mind, would be unable to make a rational decision in this regard, therefore none of the advocates of euthenasia would even support her, never mind even consider helping her

We don't agree. My point is, if she was suicidal, and if euthanasia was legal, she'd have the option to get counseling in that regard. Because euthenasia is illegal, she didn't have that option. It sounds like you're letting your emotions get ahead of rational thinking.

[maidu]

Perhaps too off topic, but here's a true story of a Thai man who, wanting to avoid debts, and also wanting to leave his surviving family as much money as possible, chose an alarming way to commit suicide. He was a pilot of a passenger plane. First he took out the biggest insurance policy on himself as possible. Then, on a flight from Vietnam to Thailand, he intentionally crashed the plane, killing all on board.

Mentioned that, to illustrate some of the weird ways Thais have dealt with avoiding debts.

a personal note: a woman in my village tricked me out of a lump of money. She lied to me and lied to several Thai associates who I asked to act as intermediaries at the time - in a biz deal. When I caught up with her, and demanded my money back, she ran off down the street. A couple years later, I heard she had gone far away to Surin, changed her name and got a sex-change operation to become male-like.

Edited September 7, 2012 by maidu

[sunshine51]

The word depression here masks a different reality, the reality is that this poor lady made a move towards a complete breakdown in reasonable order and thought, quite frankly she went mad.

Any reasonable person reading this story will be saddened and horrified at the chosen mode of suicide, and we will be wondering what went through her mind as she made her way towards the crocodile farm. These are beasts that are among the most terrifying on earth ( in of their own way ) and we are taught at an early age to fear, and least respect, them.

This only lends credence to the fact that the poor lady suffered effectively a nervous breakdown before dying.

This is a mental health issue, sometimes in matters of mental health no one is to blame, sometimes more could have been done. In this case we just don't have a clue and it's not up to us to second guess the circumstances and state of mind that led to this.

All we can do is draw lessons from these tragedies, I would imagine many people reading this topic have knowledge, possibly close knowledge of people that committed suicide, I know I have. I do take an attitude that suicide is a selfish act, as it has reverberations throughout the lifetime of the family and friends around the victim, in fact suicides can still haunt the memory decades later.

It's up to us of sound mental character to look out for the signs of distress in people close to us, and ask if things are okay. It's up to people who are feeling that they are under pressure to take steps to help themselves, while they still have the capacity to do so. It's all part of being a community, of being a family, of being friends.

In as much as I believe suicide to be a selfish act, as it is the living that bear the consequences, I do understand that a complete breakdown in reason can cause it too. In this case due to the circumstances, the chances are it was a complete breakdown in reason.

I hope this lady went quickly, I hope wherever she is her suffering is over.

For the rest of us it's to take the lesson on board, that mental health issues affect many people, and they should be taken seriously. It's too easy to mock, and far too easy to dismiss the depressed as being weak.

It's not weakness, it's an illness, and it's up to the rest of us to adjust our attitudes to mental health problems and help these people get through their illness. It's as simple as that.

Well said Blether...well said. I'm more horrified at her chosen method of death than

sad about it although I am sad she has departed the living. I hope she's in peace

now and the demons that haunted her have been nulled.

When you stated "It's up to us of sound mental character to look out for the signs

of distress in people close to us, and ask if things are okay."...I'd just like to add that

perhaps...we who know of somebody suffering from even a "minor" mental illness

...perhaps we should make some time from our otherwise hurried schedule to

spend some quality time with this friend doing friend things and having fun. It could

just save a life.

[theblether]

Not ridiculous. You ask 'what does this have to do with euthenasia?' It does relate to euthenasia. For anyone to consider throwing themselves in a croc pit is sad indeed, for several reasons. If the sad woman had an option for euthenesia, then at least she would have a dignified, painless way to go. Rather than be ripped apart by beasts, which might take between two and twenty minutes to die in excrutiating agony. What if the crocs had just been fed? Crocs in the wild eat every few days or weeks. She might get partially ripped apart, and then left to suffer for hours, lying in croc dung.

Personally, I think the dramatic suicide story is a crock of bull. Thais have been known to do very odd things in order to fake death, and avoid paying debts.

....and now, what about copy-cats?

It has absolutely nothing to do with assisted suicide in this case,..... euthenasia relates to people who are terminally ill/in capciated in some way and make rational/sound minded decision to choose the time and place of their death with some dignity, this woman by virtue of the fact that she may or may not have decided to swim with crocodiles suggests she is not of sound mind, would be unable to make a rational decision in this regard, therefore none of the advocates of euthenasia would even support her, never mind even consider helping her

We don't agree. My point is, if she was suicidal, and if euthanasia was legal, she'd have the option to get counseling in that regard. Because euthenasia is illegal, she didn't have that option. It sounds like you're letting your emotions get ahead of rational thinking.

Quite frankly nonsense.......this topic is not about euthanasia, it's about suicide.

I have sympathy with the euthanasia argument for people who are suffering extreme and chronic pain, or degenerative disease. Many of these people cannot be helped or saved.....and in many cases it's medical science that's keeping them alive and prolonging the torture.

I have no truck with the argument that suicidally depressed people should be directed to organizations such as Hemlock or Dignitas. We have seen plenty of examples of people being goaded into suicide by psychopathic internet trolls, never mind those other poor souls who have taken their lives due to pressure in their personal lives.

Your view that people with suicidal feelings should be sent to end of life clinics is extreme, off the scale, and trust me.....it's the road to extermination camps.

It's up to us of sound mind to fight tooth and nail for the sanctity of life, and not to allow a step by step devaluation of life. Directing suicidally depressed people end of life clinics is a sick joke.......and a psychopaths charter.

Protect the weak Sir, protect the weak.

[TwoDogz]

psychopaths need employment also to feel good about themselves.

[rpm8]

The settlement is basically so that the husband doesn't cause any problems with tourists warning them not to go to the zoo as it will be damaging for the company. Also it is a sign of respect for the zoo owner to make a cash settlement to the family of the deceased to help replace the income lost tothere house hold now she has past and he is of some right because it was on his land. no one would be liable because things don't work like that here if you piss some one off you don't get taken to court you get a bullet in your head!!

A strange way to go...

(But why would the husband even make a comment of filing charges against the owners of the crocodile farm, they would not be liable for anything if she intentionally put herself in harms way and knowing this why would the owners make a "settlement" offer in the first place ?

)

I am impressed..did you just make all this up on your own...

Its just life out here!! or death even!!! RIP

[tonglen]

@tonglen

You've just done it again......do yourself a favour boss and walk away from this topic, you're making yourself look stupid.

More trite, mind-numbing, ad hominem remarks, devoid of any relative substance or cogent thought. Seems to be your modus operandi.

[tonglen]

Not ridiculous. You ask 'what does this have to do with euthenasia?' It does relate to euthenasia. For anyone to consider throwing themselves in a croc pit is sad indeed, for several reasons. If the sad woman had an option for euthenesia, then at least she would have a dignified, painless way to go. Rather than be ripped apart by beasts, which might take between two and twenty minutes to die in excrutiating agony. What if the crocs had just been fed? Crocs in the wild eat every few days or weeks. She might get partially ripped apart, and then left to suffer for hours, lying in croc dung.

Personally, I think the dramatic suicide story is a crock of bull. Thais have been known to do very odd things in order to fake death, and avoid paying debts.

....and now, what about copy-cats?

It has absolutely nothing to do with assisted suicide in this case,..... euthenasia relates to people who are terminally ill/in capciated in some way and make rational/sound minded decision to choose the time and place of their death with some dignity, this woman by virtue of the fact that she may or may not have decided to swim with crocodiles suggests she is not of sound mind, would be unable to make a rational decision in this regard, therefore none of the advocates of euthenasia would even support her, never mind even consider helping her

We don't agree. My point is, if she was suicidal, and if euthanasia was legal, she'd have the option to get counseling in that regard. Because euthenasia is illegal, she didn't have that option. It sounds like you're letting your emotions get ahead of rational thinking.

Quite frankly nonsense.......this topic is not about euthanasia, it's about suicide.

I have sympathy with the euthanasia argument for people who are suffering extreme and chronic pain, or degenerative disease. Many of these people cannot be helped or saved.....and in many cases it's medical science that's keeping them alive and prolonging the torture.

I have no truck with the argument that suicidally depressed people should be directed to organizations such as Hemlock or Dignitas. We have seen plenty of examples of people being goaded into suicide by psychopathic internet trolls, never mind those other poor souls who have taken their lives due to pressure in their personal lives.

Your view that people with suicidal feelings should be sent to end of life clinics is extreme, off the scale, and trust me.....it's the road to extermination camps.

It's up to us of sound mind to fight tooth and nail for the sanctity of life, and not to allow a step by step devaluation of life. Directing suicidally depressed people end of life clinics is a sick joke.......and a psychopaths charter.

Protect the weak Sir, protect the weak.

It's not up to you 'fight tooth and nail for the sanctity of life' for someone's else's life. Its their life to live or end. Period.

Fight for your OWN sanctity of life, leave mine well enough alone.

As far as your definition of Euthanasia, you'd better do some more research. "EU" means good in GREEK. "THANATOS" means death....good death.

It encompasses a much broader scope of end-of-life decisions other than those you've so narrowly espoused.

"And you might have noticed something else. The sanctity

of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it?

You rarely see a bumper sticker that says "Save the

tumors.". Or "I brake for advanced melanoma.". No,

viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, E. Coli

bacteria, the crabs. Nothing sacred about those things.

So at best the sanctity of life is kind of a selective

thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are

sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal,

huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole <deleted>

thing up!

-George Carlin

[maidu]

There are people, are there not, who counsel others who are suicide-prone. Rather than look at counseling as a completely downward slippery slope, it could be viewed as a means to gain a positive outlook. Dr. Kervorkian (a.k.a. Dr. Death) turned many people away, as unsuited for his services.

It almost sounds like what some here are advocating, is the suicidal woman not seek counseling, as such counseling might reinforce her suicidal tendancies. Therefore better to let things take their course, and crocs get an early Christmas treat.

Edited September 7, 2012 by maidu

[TwoDogz]

She recycled.

Selfless act.

Well done.

[Ron19]

The mystery has deepened because the Crocodile Farm have reportedly denied the incident took place.

Does it sometimes feel like the Thai people would not be able to engage in honesty, if their lives depended upon it? Why is it such a first instinct to lie here? Why is there no connection between their spiritual beliefs, and the daily behavior? Why is telling a lie considered OK, and acceptable behavior? Why is there not more emphasis on honesty? I do not care about the ridiculous concept of "face". We all know that is simply an excuse for avoiding any inner work or introspection. There is no reality to face, it is merely a huge excuse to behave improperly. It is getting to the point, where I find it nearly impossible to believe anything that most Thai people say. There are some exceptions. I do know some honorable Thai people. But, the percentage of people who possess little While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'honor, when it comes to honesty, is shocking. Why is that? Does anyone have a good explanation for this?

I don't have an explanation for this but if you read "Private Dancer" you may get an insight into the way many thai people think and thank goodness it is not all of them.

Yep, a work of fiction, written by a foreigner, about a thai bargirl... excellent source for insights on a nation's culture. While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'.

Brilliant deduction you win 1st prize and yes it is fiction but researched over a number of years by the author.

http://www.chickynet.com/thailand/blogs/1/110/expat-interview-stephen-leathe

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/interview/interview1.html

I don't know what your situation is and I'm not really bothered but I 1st came to Thailand in 1986 and later met my now wife after being introduced by a mutual friend. After communicating by mail I came again to Thailand with our mutual friend and her husband to meet her face to face.She then came to Australia and we married in 1992 and have now been together for over 20 years.Have since retired and we have now been living in Thailand for 5 Years.

So you see that I have been around this country long enough to have an idea how many thai people think, and no my wife was not a bargirl and never has

been.While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'.I'll leave the last paragraph up to you as you seem to be weell up on that sort of thing.

[blade63]

i dont buy this...but police are still investigating and 'traces' should be found if this is true

[TwoDogz]

Maybe she was just looking for her handbag.

[Thongkorn]

When My wife worked at the crocodile farm/zoo,She can remember two cases. One a Young man jumped in to the water and was taken by the crocodiles. and the other was again a young man with girlfriend problems who did not want to live, he jumped in the crocodile pit but missed the water. he then changed his mind and climbed a tree. the staff had to distract the crocs with chickens so they could get the man out, He was spoken to by the Thai police, photographed and barred from entering the Zoo again. But The zoo would keep the incident quiet because it would deter customers. as they have done in the past. The crocs are always hungry so it is possible that in theory it could have happened.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Thongkorn

[johna]

Not ridiculous. You ask 'what does this have to do with euthenasia?' It does relate to euthenasia. For anyone to consider throwing themselves in a croc pit is sad indeed, for several reasons. If the sad woman had an option for euthenesia, then at least she would have a dignified, painless way to go. Rather than be ripped apart by beasts, which might take between two and twenty minutes to die in excrutiating agony. What if the crocs had just been fed? Crocs in the wild eat every few days or weeks. She might get partially ripped apart, and then left to suffer for hours, lying in croc dung.

Personally, I think the dramatic suicide story is a crock of bull. Thais have been known to do very odd things in order to fake death, and avoid paying debts.

....and now, what about copy-cats?

It has absolutely nothing to do with assisted suicide in this case,..... euthenasia relates to people who are terminally ill/in capciated in some way and make rational/sound minded decision to choose the time and place of their death with some dignity, this woman by virtue of the fact that she may or may not have decided to swim with crocodiles suggests she is not of sound mind, would be unable to make a rational decision in this regard, therefore none of the advocates of euthenasia would even support her, never mind even consider helping her

We don't agree. My point is, if she was suicidal, and if euthanasia was legal, she'd have the option to get counseling in that regard. Because euthenasia is illegal, she didn't have that option. It sounds like you're letting your emotions get ahead of rational thinking.

Quite frankly nonsense.......this topic is not about euthanasia, it's about suicide.

I have sympathy with the euthanasia argument for people who are suffering extreme and chronic pain, or degenerative disease. Many of these people cannot be helped or saved.....and in many cases it's medical science that's keeping them alive and prolonging the torture.

I have no truck with the argument that suicidally depressed people should be directed to organizations such as Hemlock or Dignitas. We have seen plenty of examples of people being goaded into suicide by psychopathic internet trolls, never mind those other poor souls who have taken their lives due to pressure in their personal lives.

Your view that people with suicidal feelings should be sent to end of life clinics is extreme, off the scale, and trust me.....it's the road to extermination camps.

It's up to us of sound mind to fight tooth and nail for the sanctity of life, and not to allow a step by step devaluation of life. Directing suicidally depressed people end of life clinics is a sick joke.......and a psychopaths charter.

Protect the weak Sir, protect the weak.

Thanks for the heads up on Hemlock and Dignitas + now we all know a great place to dump the bodies.

[Docno]

The mystery has deepened because the Crocodile Farm have reportedly denied the incident took place.

Does it sometimes feel like the Thai people would not be able to engage in honesty, if their lives depended upon it? Why is it such a first instinct to lie here? Why is there no connection between their spiritual beliefs, and the daily behavior? Why is telling a lie considered OK, and acceptable behavior? Why is there not more emphasis on honesty? I do not care about the ridiculous concept of "face". We all know that is simply an excuse for avoiding any inner work or introspection. There is no reality to face, it is merely a huge excuse to behave improperly. It is getting to the point, where I find it nearly impossible to believe anything that most Thai people say. There are some exceptions. I do know some honorable Thai people. But, the percentage of people who possess little While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'honor, when it comes to honesty, is shocking. Why is that? Does anyone have a good explanation for this?

I don't have an explanation for this but if you read "Private Dancer" you may get an insight into the way many thai people think and thank goodness it is not all of them.

Yep, a work of fiction, written by a foreigner, about a thai bargirl... excellent source for insights on a nation's culture. While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'.

Brilliant deduction you win 1st prize and yes it is fiction but researched over a number of years by the author.

http://www.chickynet...-stephen-leathe

http://www.stickmanb...interview1.html

I don't know what your situation is and I'm not really bothered but I 1st came to Thailand in 1986 and later met my now wife after being introduced by a mutual friend. After communicating by mail I came again to Thailand with our mutual friend and her husband to meet her face to face.She then came to Australia and we married in 1992 and have now been together for over 20 years.Have since retired and we have now been living in Thailand for 5 Years.

So you see that I have been around this country long enough to have an idea how many thai people think, and no my wife was not a bargirl and never has

been.While you're at it, feel free to learn about Japan from 'Memories of a Geisha' and Hong Kong from 'The World of Suzie Wong'.I'll leave the last paragraph up to you as you seem to be weell up on that sort of thing.

Think you're not getting it. Doesn't matter much that the author 'researched' his novel over a number of years (whatever that 'research' constitutes). It's a novel... about a bargirl... how you would presume to extrapolate from that to form an understanding of an entire culture or the specific situation under discussion is beyond me (I haven't seen any suggestions that the woman in question here may have been a bargirl at some point). I'm sure most Thais would also find it quite insulting.

And I'm not sure what you meant when you said that I "seem to be well up on that sort of thing" in relation to the stories I mentioned. On the off chance you haven't heard of them, their film adaptations were nominated or won Golden Globes and Oscars and they were both based on well-respected 'literature' (one a play and one a novel). [Hard to make the same claim about Private Dancer]. And despite this, I would never seriously suggest that either work could give us deep insights about most people in Japan or HongKong/China.

That said, I'm glad you have made a good life for yourself with a Thai lady in Thailand... it's commendable and I respect it. I'm not one the cynics around here who question whether such things are possible. Unfortunately, we're more likely to hear negative stories around here, most of which are followed by a littany of complaints (and even insults) about Thailand and its people.

[Ron19]

In reply to Docno in post #138

Thankyou for your answer but I think you are reading something into my original post that isn't there.First of all,if you haven't go back and read the links I posted then decide whether there is or isn't an element of truth in what he has written.I know the book is based around bargirls but forget about that because a lot of things he brings up are present in broader society,things like not accepting responsibility for your own actions.After you have done that, go back and read the post by spidermike007 that I answered in post #35 and then read my answer again.In particular "you may get an insight into the way many thai people think( "and thank goodness it is not all of them" )".

[khaowong1]

A strange way to go...

But why would the husband even make a comment of filing charges against the owners of the crocodile farm, they would not be liable for anything if she intentionally put herself in harms way and knowing this why would the owners make a "settlement" offer in the first place ?

This is Thailand... who knows why they do this stuff. I don't think even The Shadow knows..