97000 Baht For A Honda Click ?

[naboo]

Because of the price I'm guessing it is second hand. That works out to about 4.8% interest per month, way too much. It should be 2.2 - 3.0% per month at the most.

Should be 2.2 - 3.0% would make 2.7% considered acceptable, when it clearly is far too high.

[raro]

Faced the same in Pattaya. Had a big laugh at the shop and asked them how stupid they think I am. Told them also that by Thai law you cannot exceed 15%per annum. Only credit card companies are allowed to charge 18%. It didn't impress them.

Still, it seems to be common practice in the motorcycle business.

Run, don't walk.

sent from my Android phone

[pauljones]

When I met my wife she had a good job paying over 15,000 Bt a month

She had purchased a wave with 5000 down and every month paid "Easy Buy" 1400 Bt nearly 3 years later I asked what debit she had before we married and she said the motorbike. we checked the balance owed and it was 56,000 bt on the 36,000 wave she got. We paid in full and it was a lesson, In total nearly 3 times the price, All she thought about was she could easily make the 1400 a month payment and not the total. to be paid

Out in the country they also do this with Home items like TV washers and refrigerators

Yeah, I think a lot of Thais are just really weak in math. Like you said, they only think about whether or not they can afford the loan payment, not about how much interest they're going to pay.

The other side is that this probably also means that loan defaults are very common. Which in turn would increase the risk, and the rates...

Yes. I was told the teenagers will purchase a bike on credit, make a few payments, stop paying until the dealer comes and repossess the bike.

Then, they do it again.

I see a real opportunity for someone to provide financing at a realistic rate.

[rixalex]

It is daft actually. If you can afford 3k a month, why not just put 3k aside every month yourself, and after a year, buy something outright for 36k. Or wait 18 months and you'll have enough money for a new Click. Problem is people want things instantly, can't be bothered to wait, so they end up paying two, three times the amount. This sort of "must have it now" mentaliity is understandable with 5 year olds, but why adults behave in the same way, i really don't know. Still, great business for the credit companies and loan sharks.

Perhaps the 3k payments couldn't be put aside if they didn't have a vehicle and thus had to rely on public transport.

I thought that even a 5 year old could see that as a realistic possibilty.

If public transport exists, your argument about not being able to put aside 3k because of public transport expenses, falls down, because public transport is so cheap, and would be unlikely to cost much more than the amount of money they would be spending fueling the bike. The only situation where paying three times the amount for a bike rather than waiting and paying the value of the bike, makes any sort of sense, is when no public transport exists and not having a bike means not working. If that is the case, i fully understand. I just don't happen to think with the vast majority of these ridiculous purchases, that is the case.

[SumetCycle]

Because of the price I'm guessing it is second hand. That works out to about 4.8% interest per month, way too much. It should be 2.2 - 3.0% per month at the most.

Should be 2.2 - 3.0% would make 2.7% considered acceptable, when it clearly is far too high.

Well, that's a bit of a reach. It was a statement of fact. The going finance rate for second hand bikes in Thailand is 2.2 - 3.0%. This doesn't mean I personally think it is acceptable. I was being helpful and trying to help the OP. No need to turn it into an attack on a sponsor.

[SumetCycle]

Because of the price I'm guessing it is second hand. That works out to about 4.8% interest per month, way too much. It should be 2.2 - 3.0% per month at the most.

Should be 2.2 - 3.0% would make 2.7% considered acceptable, when it clearly is far too high.

Well, that's a bit of a reach. It was a statement of fact. The going finance rate for second hand bikes in Thailand is 2.2 - 3.0%. This doesn't mean I personally think it is acceptable. I was being helpful and trying to help the OP. No need to turn it into an attack on a sponsor.

Oh, and we never finance a bike for more than 3 years. 6 years is just ridiculous. I actually encourage customers that really want to finance to do it over a year to avoid the interest.

[robblok]

Because of the price I'm guessing it is second hand. That works out to about 4.8% interest per month, way too much. It should be 2.2 - 3.0% per month at the most.

Should be 2.2 - 3.0% would make 2.7% considered acceptable, when it clearly is far too high.

Well, that's a bit of a reach. It was a statement of fact. The going finance rate for second hand bikes in Thailand is 2.2 - 3.0%. This doesn't mean I personally think it is acceptable. I was being helpful and trying to help the OP. No need to turn it into an attack on a sponsor.

Don't worry about it people read in it what they want.

You are right these are common finance prices in Thailand, does not make it right.

You were just explaining it, i seen your customers they don't look like the poor.

[cbrer]

It is daft actually. If you can afford 3k a month, why not just put 3k aside every month yourself, and after a year, buy something outright for 36k. Or wait 18 months and you'll have enough money for a new Click. Problem is people want things instantly, can't be bothered to wait, so they end up paying two, three times the amount. This sort of "must have it now" mentaliity is understandable with 5 year olds, but why adults behave in the same way, i really don't know. Still, great business for the credit companies and loan sharks.

Perhaps the 3k payments couldn't be put aside if they didn't have a vehicle and thus had to rely on public transport.

I thought that even a 5 year old could see that as a realistic possibilty.

If public transport exists, your argument about not being able to put aside 3k because of public transport expenses, falls down, because public transport is so cheap, and would be unlikely to cost much more than the amount of money they would be spending fueling the bike. The only situation where paying three times the amount for a bike rather than waiting and paying the value of the bike, makes any sort of sense, is when no public transport exists and not having a bike means not working. If that is the case, i fully understand. I just don't happen to think with the vast majority of these ridiculous purchases, that is the case.

I'm afraid your attempted point is crap.

Consider two people living together that need to take a 50b motosai taxi to and from work each day, each. 200b per day times 6 times a week times 4 weeks a month.

Even a five year old can use their fingers and toes to work out that a 3000b a month lease for a Honda wave or whatever is the better option.

Some need to take, say two kids to and from school as well, other option 40b a day for a songtaew, then evening market runs etc.

A 100b p/d lease plus the minuscule amount of gas a scooter uses is no the doubt the better option.

[rixalex]

I'm afraid your attempted point is crap.

Consider two people living together that need to take a 50b motosai taxi to and from work each day, each. 200b per day times 6 times a week times 4 weeks a month.

Even a five year old can use their fingers and toes to work out that a 3000b a month lease for a Honda wave or whatever is the better option.

Some need to take, say two kids to and from school as well, other option 40b a day for a songtaew, then evening market runs etc.

A 100b p/d lease plus the minuscule amount of gas a scooter uses is no the doubt the better option.

My argument wasn't that a scooter wasn't the better option, my argument was that if you can afford 3k in repayments for donkey's years that will end up meaning you pay three times what the bike is worth, there is probably a more sensible option than involves paying a bit more in the short term on daily expenses by using public transport, and then when you have saved up 3k every month for however many years, buying something outright. If things are that tight, why buy a something like a Click in the first place? Why not buy a second hand Wave. Cost far less to run as well as far less to buy.

Edited September 30, 2012 by rixalex

[ignis]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

[rixalex]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

Indeed.

And I think a massive problem is that financing encourages people to spend way beyond their means. They get themselves n this circle of debt from which they may be trapped in for years and years. Having a shiny new Click might make one feel good for a couple of weeks, but living week in week out, just keeping your neck above water paying bills, can means years of misery.

[cbrer]

I'm afraid your attempted point is crap.

Consider two people living together that need to take a 50b motosai taxi to and from work each day, each. 200b per day times 6 times a week times 4 weeks a month.

Even a five year old can use their fingers and toes to work out that a 3000b a month lease for a Honda wave or whatever is the better option.

Some need to take, say two kids to and from school as well, other option 40b a day for a songtaew, then evening market runs etc.

A 100b p/d lease plus the minuscule amount of gas a scooter uses is no the doubt the better option.

My argument wasn't that a scooter wasn't the better option, my argument was that if you can afford 3k in repayments for donkey's years that will end up meaning you pay three times what the bike is worth, there is probably a more sensible option than involves paying a bit more in the short term on daily expenses by using public transport.

No, you're 'argument' was to snidely slate Thais as being less intelligent than five year olds, while creating a flawed, incorrect, unintelligent point.

If two people are spending more money on daily transport than it would cost for them to lease a new scooter, it doesn't take a five year old to work out the better option.

If it takes them 18 months of saving 3k to buy a 54k scooter, and while saving they're spending 4k p/m on transportation, (72,000b over the 18 month saving period), means that transportation and buying the scooter is going to cost a total of126k. This would also includes a loss in quality of life from being 3k worse off in their monthly finances, and the time lost and inconveniences of having to rely on other forms of transport for that period, just so they could spend an over all 126k on a 48k scooter and transport while saving to buy it.

Excuse me, but it doesn't seems like the Thais are the stupid ones in your posts.

Why not spend similar (or less) on leasing and not have to go through any of the inconveniences or loss to QoL from having tighter monthly finances, and unless they're paying more than 72,000 in interest alone they will be better off?

If things are that tight, why buy a something like a Click in the first place? Why not buy a second hand Wave. Cost far less to run as well as far less to buy.

Most who live here will understand that the used market in Thailand is atrocious with reference to value and prices, and the level of maintenance on the vehicles, particularly some cheap scooter is often less than a single oil change in five years.

Edited September 30, 2012 by cbrer

[rixalex]

No, you're 'argument' was to snidely slate Thais as being less intelligent than five year olds, while creating a flawed, incorrect, unintelligent point.

Get off your high horse and stop playing the race card. I wasn't only talking about Thais, i was talking about this day and age there being a mentality of "must have it now", that leads people - people all over the world - into silly financing that for the sake of having it now, and ends up costing three times what it otherwise would have cost. If you don't see that, if you believe that everyone who buys things on finance buys completely out of necessity with no other available more fiscal method of doing things that don't involve paying thousands to finance companies, so be it. I disagree.

Excuse me, but it doesn't seems like the Thais are the stupid ones in your posts.

I haven't called anyone stupid, not Thai people, not you.

Most who live here will understand that the used market in Thailand is atrocious with reference to value and prices, and the level of maintenance on the vehicles, particularly some cheap scooter is often less than a single oil change in five years.

True with cars but not so with motorbikes. Motorbikes depreciate faster and as for maintenance, there are shops that will do a full tune up for not much more than a few hundred baht.

[yoslim]

Thais are so lazy, I mean you see kids on mb taxi to do a trip that would take 20min max to walk.. They would even pay 10x the price of the mb if it means they won't have to walk ever again

[ignis]

Thais are so lazy, I mean you see kids on mb taxi to do a trip that would take 20min max to walk.

20min max to walk ? that is like to the end of the world. now there parents have to park outside where there going even if there are spaces to park there pickup a few spaces further on, double park never mind, long ques backing up to go around... If Dad cannot walk for 2 mins how on earth are the kids going to walk for 20 mins ?

Anyway what is the MB Taxi bike there for

[Sam Drucker]

Checked into this a few years ago for a (now ex) girlfriend, cause the numbers weren't making sense to me (this was when I didn't yet realize how much Thai consumers were getting scammed by banks, merchants, and finance companies.)

We went to the dealer, asked what the payoff amount was for her months-old Airblade. The dealer simply counted up the number of remainimg payments, multiplied by the payment amount. (In other words, pay the interest on the full loan term even if you pay it off early.)

If the general population never had consumer protections in the financial industry, they will not expect or seek it. And most of the population doesn't even seem to know the intricate workings of consumer loans, and how they can be taken advantage of.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[ignis]

this was when I didn't yet realize how much Thai consumers were getting scammed by banks, merchants, and finance companies

Why Thais ?

here buy a 2.5 million house and have a 1 million mortgage = interest only = 1 million, so you pay back total of 2 million...

So UK you need a 45,000 GBP mortgage, the interest on the same length is far more...

Both as I see it are the same, the 1st 9 - 10 years you are paying back the interest and still owe more or less the same amount as when you started.

[pattayadingo]

Checked into this a few years ago for a (now ex) girlfriend, cause the numbers weren't making sense to me (this was when I didn't yet realize how much Thai consumers were getting scammed by banks, merchants, and finance companies.)

We went to the dealer, asked what the payoff amount was for her months-old Airblade. The dealer simply counted up the number of remainimg payments, multiplied by the payment amount. (In other words, pay the interest on the full loan term even if you pay it off early.)

If the general population never had consumer protections in the financial industry, they will not expect or seek it. And most of the population doesn't even seem to know the intricate workings of consumer loans, and how they can be taken advantage of.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect App

I have known a few people buying bikes on credit over the years. Some paying 2K Baht a month. This is the first time I've actually asked how long the payments are over and when I worked it out it was a surprise.

Not really a big surprise to read what you have said about paying the bike off.

Yes the lenders do seem to have people over a barrel here and if the payments fail the lenders are on a win win situation.

[transam]

The lad just bought a bike. 67,000bht for cash. He bought it over three years.

With deposit, 105,000 bht.

[pattayadingo]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

Indeed.

And I think a massive problem is that financing encourages people to spend way beyond their means. They get themselves n this circle of debt from which they may be trapped in for years and years. Having a shiny new Click might make one feel good for a couple of weeks, but living week in week out, just keeping your neck above water paying bills, can means years of misery.

No wonder we see so many bikes being taken away several months after they have been delivered. The feel good factor of having a new shiny bike and then struggling to pay and then losing it in a few months, leading to a presumably bad credit rating and possibly higher interest rates in the future. This is no way to have to live / struggle.

[pattayadingo]

The lad just bought a bike. 67,000bht for cash. He bought it over three years.

With deposit, 105,000 bht.

Obviously from your post and others this is a relatively common occurrence here but not something I'd noticed before.

[transam]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

Indeed.

And I think a massive problem is that financing encourages people to spend way beyond their means. They get themselves n this circle of debt from which they may be trapped in for years and years. Having a shiny new Click might make one feel good for a couple of weeks, but living week in week out, just keeping your neck above water paying bills, can means years of misery.

No wonder we see so many bikes being taken away several months after they have been delivered. The feel good factor of having a new shiny bike and then struggling to pay and then losing it in a few months, leading to a presumably bad credit rating and possibly higher interest rates in the future. This is no way to have to live / struggle.

This happens cos of a very lax hire purchase system here. Anyone can virtually buy anything that they cannot afford.

[omnilangur]

So paying cash for a new honda is around 35,000 baht but paying over 2 years will turn that bike into 100 thousand.....

[pattayadingo]

It is daft actually. If you can afford 3k a month, why not just put 3k aside every month yourself, and after a year, buy something outright for 36k. Or wait 18 months and you'll have enough money for a new Click. Problem is people want things instantly, can't be bothered to wait, so they end up paying two, three times the amount. This sort of "must have it now" mentaliity is understandable with 5 year olds, but why adults behave in the same way, i really don't know. Still, great business for the credit companies and loan sharks.

Perhaps the 3k payments couldn't be put aside if they didn't have a vehicle and thus had to rely on public transport.

I thought that even a 5 year old could see that as a realistic possibilty.

If public transport exists, your argument about not being able to put aside 3k because of public transport expenses, falls down, because public transport is so cheap, and would be unlikely to cost much more than the amount of money they would be spending fueling the bike. The only situation where paying three times the amount for a bike rather than waiting and paying the value of the bike, makes any sort of sense, is when no public transport exists and not having a bike means not working. If that is the case, i fully understand. I just don't happen to think with the vast majority of these ridiculous purchases, that is the case.

I'm afraid your attempted point is crap.

Consider two people living together that need to take a 50b motosai taxi to and from work each day, each. 200b per day times 6 times a week times 4 weeks a month.

Even a five year old can use their fingers and toes to work out that a 3000b a month lease for a Honda wave or whatever is the better option.

Some need to take, say two kids to and from school as well, other option 40b a day for a songtaew, then evening market runs etc.

A 100b p/d lease plus the minuscule amount of gas a scooter uses is no the doubt the better option.

And for those that live out in the country who do not have access to any forms of public transport need some means of getting to and fro. I used to see the relatives and neighbours children getting around to school and back on bicycles. Was the only way they could get to school when their parents were off to work too early to take them.

[taninthai]

So this is quite concening my misses borrowed 400 k over 2years total to repay 480k i actually didnt think this was too bad not great but not bad,opinions good or bad

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[rixalex]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

Indeed.

And I think a massive problem is that financing encourages people to spend way beyond their means. They get themselves n this circle of debt from which they may be trapped in for years and years. Having a shiny new Click might make one feel good for a couple of weeks, but living week in week out, just keeping your neck above water paying bills, can means years of misery.

No wonder we see so many bikes being taken away several months after they have been delivered. The feel good factor of having a new shiny bike and then struggling to pay and then losing it in a few months, leading to a presumably bad credit rating and possibly higher interest rates in the future. This is no way to have to live / struggle.

Indeed.

Comes down to basic personal money management, and i'm afraid, that is something that doesn't tend to get taught in schools and so unless parents really push home to their kids about self sufficiency and about spending within means, it is all to easy to do what it seems everyone else is doing, and go out and have yourself the newest phone or the latest motorbike or a new car, and end up up your neck in debt. I've met people who take on repayments that are up to 80 to 90% of their monthly salary. This is just crazy.

[transam]

Lots of adverts stating clearly Interest 4% up to 5.4%....... No down and only X,XXX per month for 36 months, likewise cars and Trucks No Down and only X,XXX for 60 months...... + on something that can be 10 - 20 years old.

Many that buy this way cannot meet the terms of Honda main dealer [from 0.79%], so must pay much more Interest as there classed as high risk.. No history, Bad history.

Indeed.

And I think a massive problem is that financing encourages people to spend way beyond their means. They get themselves n this circle of debt from which they may be trapped in for years and years. Having a shiny new Click might make one feel good for a couple of weeks, but living week in week out, just keeping your neck above water paying bills, can means years of misery.

No wonder we see so many bikes being taken away several months after they have been delivered. The feel good factor of having a new shiny bike and then struggling to pay and then losing it in a few months, leading to a presumably bad credit rating and possibly higher interest rates in the future. This is no way to have to live / struggle.

Indeed.

Comes down to basic personal money management, and i'm afraid, that is something that doesn't tend to get taught in schools and so unless parents really push home to their kids about self sufficiency and about spending within means, it is all to easy to do what it seems everyone else is doing, and go out and have yourself the newest phone or the latest motorbike or a new car, and end up up your neck in debt. I've met people who take on repayments that are up to 80 to 90% of their monthly salary. This is just crazy.

Like l said, it is toooooooooo easy, and grand ma and pa put their land on the line.

[rixalex]

And for those that live out in the country who do not have access to any forms of public transport need some means of getting to and fro. I used to see the relatives and neighbours children getting around to school and back on bicycles. Was the only way they could get to school when their parents were off to work too early to take them.

As i have already said, i fully accept that those who have journeys to make in getting to work for which there is no public transport, i understand why they might end up taking on finance. I would still question however the sense in buying something like a new Click. It's very expensive to buy and to run. Waves use much less fuel and are much more reliable. They go on forever, and are cheap and easy to maintain. If things are that tight, just buy a used Wave. 15k will get you a decent one. Surely has to make more sense than ending up spending close to 100k on something that will break down more often and drink almost twice as much fuel.

[cbrer]

The lad just bought a bike. 67,000bht for cash. He bought it over three years.

With deposit, 105,000 bht.

And over that 3 years would he have spent 38k (say 1000b p/m) on transport?

If so, he made the intelligent decision.

[transam]

The lad just bought a bike. 67,000bht for cash. He bought it over three years.

With deposit, 105,000 bht.

And over that 3 years would he have spent 38k (say 1000b p/m) on transport?

If so, he made the intelligent decision.

Noooooooooooooo, his mum/me would take car of his ride.