ลุงจะไปไหน

[wasabi]

In Courage Thai software this phrase is listed as Where are you going

ลุงจะไปไหน

And this is listed as Yes I can! Will you go by bus

ได้ค่ะ ลุงจะไปรถเมล์หรือคะ

I thought ลุง meant uncle?

[BambinA]

I thought ลุง meant uncle?

loong = uncle (older than mom or dad)

mother's younger brother = naa น้า

father's younger bother = ar อา

[p_brownstone]

In Courage Thai software this phrase is listed as Where are you going

ลุงจะไปไหน

And this is listed as Yes I can! Will you go by bus

ได้ค่ะ ลุงจะไปรถเมล์หรือคะ

I thought ลุง meant uncle?

ลุง ("Loong") specifically means "uncle" but is also used as a respectful, if rather familiar term of address to an older man from a younger person - not necessarily a relative, but someone with quite close connections.

Personally - approaching 60 - I usually insist on being adressed as "Khun Loong" but if the only other alternative is "Khun Poo" (which directly translates as "Grandfather" but again is not always used to address a blood relative) then simply "Loong" is acceptable!

(Incidentally I would never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap".)

Patrick

[Johpa]

(Incidentally I would never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap".)

Patrick

Ai Pat, methinks perhaps it is time to take an extended holiday away from the Kingdom and come back to your senses

[p_brownstone]

(Incidentally I would never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap".)

Patrick

Ai Pat, methinks perhaps it is time to take an extended holiday away from the Kingdom and come back to your senses

Once again demonstrating your preference and propensity for crude language over refinement I see.

Keep up the excellent work – I am sure the Thais in the society in which you mix are suitably impressed.

Patrick

[wasabi]

By the way, the software does include the word kha at the end of this phrase, however my question was directly related to the word ลุง which apparently is a term of respect for elders beyond just meaning uncle.

[meadish_sweetball]

'Loong' is only used for male elders who are not old enough to be your grandfather, but too old to be your older brother.

For women, the equivalent term is ป้า pbâa. However, make sure you get the intial sound right.

If you substitute it for a 'b', it means crazy. If you pronounce it like an English 'p' it means 'cloth', 'fabric'.

Also please note that all kinship words (nawng, phii, lung, bpaa, dtaa, yaay) can be used to mean both 'I', 'you', 'he' and 'she' in conversation. You have to suss out what is intended from the surrounding context.

[Tywais]

Also please note that all kinship words (nawng, phii, lung, bpaa, dtaa, yaay) can be used to mean both 'I', 'you', 'he' and 'she' in conversation. You have to suss out what is intended from the surrounding context.

I also find that they will use their name in place of "me" or "I". Never quite figured that out. For example: My wife may say something like "Lek hue cow" = "Lek's hungry" instead of "Chan hue cow".

[p_brownstone]

I also find that they will use their name in place of "me" or "I". Never quite figured that out. For example: My wife may say something like "Lek hue cow" = "Lek's hungry" instead of "Chan hue cow".

I would translate "Lek hue cow" (name - and transliteration - changed as you wish) as a somewhat plaintive "please feed me".

"Chan hue cow" is a simple, and more assertive, "I'm hungry, let's eat".

Patrick

[Johpa]

(Incidentally I would never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap".)

Patrick

Ai Pat, methinks perhaps it is time to take an extended holiday away from the Kingdom and come back to your senses

Once again demonstrating your preference and propensity for crude language over refinement I see.

Keep up the excellent work – I am sure the Thais in the society in which you mix are suitably impressed.

Patrick

Crude language? Pardon me if I used the Kham Muang vernacular form to address an older male as I had no intent to be rude. I sometimes forget that my Thai Central Thai is sprinkled with usages not common to the Bangkok area. So let me rephrase my comment whilst offering my apology.

Khun Pat, methinks perhaps it is time to take an extended holiday away from the Kingdom and come back to your senses.

As for the Thais I spend the bulk of my time with, apart from the local children when addressing adults, one rarely hears the polite particles in everyday speech as village life remains a tad more egalitarian than life in the larger towns and cities. And although I can be as aware as you to the subtleties and nuances of the Thai social strata and its reflection in the language via the pronouns and the particle system, I would never ride so high up on me horse as to "never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap"." And if I saw a fellow ex-pat engage in such haughty behavior I would offer my apologies to the Thai whose existence was not being acknowledged.

[p_brownstone]

I would never ride so high up on me horse as to "never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap"." And if I saw a fellow ex-pat engage in such haughty behavior I would offer my apologies to the Thai whose existence was not being acknowledged.

It would be most amusing to observe you attempt to correct and reprimand a Thai who reacted in a similar fashion when addressed disrespectfully by a stranger.

I began to learn Thai when I arrived in Thailand over 30 years ago; at that time most Farang in the Country were relatively well educated and understood instinctively that a properly constructed phrase, containing polite vocabulary, was equally acceptable whether talking with a Bangkok socialite or an up-country farmer.

Today of course Thailand has been “discovered” by the West and has attracted a large number of - shall we say - less well educated Farang, many of whom learn only Regional or even more localised Thai in an attempt to integrate with the communities in which they live. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that of course, however many of these people have neither the wit nor intelligence to understand that what is common parlance in “Ban Nork” is not acceptable elsewhere (try addressing a Bangkokian as “Ai …….” and I doubt you would have the time to manufacture an apology).

Patrick

[Misplaced]

I would never ride so high up on me horse as to "never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap"." And if I saw a fellow ex-pat engage in such haughty behavior I would offer my apologies to the Thai whose existence was not being acknowledged.

It would be most amusing to observe you attempt to correct and reprimand a Thai who reacted in a similar fashion when addressed disrespectfully by a stranger.

I began to learn Thai when I arrived in Thailand over 30 years ago; at that time most Farang in the Country were relatively well educated and understood instinctively that a properly constructed phrase, containing polite vocabulary, was equally acceptable whether talking with a Bangkok socialite or an up-country farmer.

Today of course Thailand has been “discovered” by the West and has attracted a large number of - shall we say - less well educated Farang, many of whom learn only Regional or even more localised Thai in an attempt to integrate with the communities in which they live. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that of course, however many of these people have neither the wit nor intelligence to understand that what is common parlance in “Ban Nork” is not acceptable elsewhere (try addressing a Bangkokian as “Ai …….” and I doubt you would have the time to manufacture an apology).

Patrick

Indeed you are 100% correct. IMO, When used the word "Ai" it shows complete disrespect and the lowclass mentality.

Good for you PB, for taking the time to learn and applied your knowledge. Most do not.

[Johpa]

I would never ride so high up on me horse as to "never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap"." And if I saw a fellow ex-pat engage in such haughty behavior I would offer my apologies to the Thai whose existence was not being acknowledged.

It would be most amusing to observe you attempt to correct and reprimand a Thai who reacted in a similar fashion when addressed disrespectfully by a stranger.

I began to learn Thai when I arrived in Thailand over 30 years ago; at that time most Farang in the Country were relatively well educated and understood instinctively that a properly constructed phrase, containing polite vocabulary, was equally acceptable whether talking with a Bangkok socialite or an up-country farmer.

Today of course Thailand has been “discovered” by the West and has attracted a large number of - shall we say - less well educated Farang, many of whom learn only Regional or even more localised Thai in an attempt to integrate with the communities in which they live. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that of course, however many of these people have neither the wit nor intelligence to understand that what is common parlance in “Ban Nork” is not acceptable elsewhere (try addressing a Bangkokian as “Ai …….” and I doubt you would have the time to manufacture an apology).

Patrick

Please, I would rarely think to reprimand any Thai for any behavior related to their interacting with another Thai. In this case, I am interacting with another Farang in an informal setting that is, for all intents and purposes, a Farang forum. And I did offer my apology for the unintended linguistic miscommunication.

You may continue to assume that I am a recent arrival, that I am a "less well educated Farang" and that I have only learned a "regional" version of the Thai language. I shall now assume that you are one arrogant Farang who I find to be an embarassment to the ex-pat community. But rest assured Ai Pat, that my meagre 25 years association with Thailand has taught me not to use the Kham Muang familiar particle Ai whilst addressing strangers when in Bangkok.

I must confess that I am not much of a fan of "Bangkokians" as they are "khon thii kop kan yaak" so to speak. And I find particularly troublesome those same Bangkokians who assume that folks from "baan nork" have "neither .. wit nor intelligence." But those are relatively polite disparagements compared to what the Bangkokians have to say about my Thai neighbors and family who do not speak Kham Muang or any other Tai language as a mother tongue.

I am most certainly impressed with your rather unique ability to assimilate towards the typical Bangkokian's rather feudal culture. But your fanclub is truely misplaced.

[meadish_sweetball]

I would never ride so high up on me horse as to "never even acknowledge someone who asked "ลุงจะไปไหน" unless they concluded the sentence with "Ka" or "Khrap"." And if I saw a fellow ex-pat engage in such haughty behavior I would offer my apologies to the Thai whose existence was not being acknowledged.

It would be most amusing to observe you attempt to correct and reprimand a Thai who reacted in a similar fashion when addressed disrespectfully by a stranger.

I began to learn Thai when I arrived in Thailand over 30 years ago; at that time most Farang in the Country were relatively well educated and understood instinctively that a properly constructed phrase, containing polite vocabulary, was equally acceptable whether talking with a Bangkok socialite or an up-country farmer.

Today of course Thailand has been “discovered” by the West and has attracted a large number of - shall we say - less well educated Farang, many of whom learn only Regional or even more localised Thai in an attempt to integrate with the communities in which they live. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that of course, however many of these people have neither the wit nor intelligence to understand that what is common parlance in “Ban Nork” is not acceptable elsewhere (try addressing a Bangkokian as “Ai …….” and I doubt you would have the time to manufacture an apology).

Patrick

Indeed you are 100% correct. IMO, When used the word "Ai" it shows complete disrespect and the lowclass mentality.

Good for you PB, for taking the time to learn and applied your knowledge. Most do not.

As you may or may not know, the noun suffix which you now label as 'lowclass' is an original Thai word, which was used before the arrival of Indian influence and religion to South East Asia ('khun' is not an originally Thai word, it is a loan, whereas 'ai' and 'ee' are forms of address from a time most likely predating Brahmanism and Buddhism).

Is it really so 'low class' as you claim, to use words that were used at the beginnings of Thai civilization?

I assume you would never use the pronoun 'khaek' to refer to people of Indic origin then, as you use words borrowed from their language when you want to be sufficiently 'high class'.

I also assume you hold Khmer people and culture in high regard and esteem... as Khmer vocabulary forms the basis for other more formal terms in Thai?

Now what is high and what is low?

[p_brownstone]

“Ai” and “Ee”, “Goo” and “Meung” are all old Thai terms commonly used many years ago – and all are still used today among close acquaintances at every level of Society, even in Bangkok, without causing the least offence.

However you will most certainly cause offence if you use them with people you do not know well, and if used habitually - rather than the “modern” terms - a Thai will immediately know that you associate with levels of society where such words are all that are used and classify you accordingly.

At the basic level society has decided what terms are acceptable in what situations – one may object, or even revolt and continue to use the “old” terms to all and sundry, but the end result is not that one would be admired for still using those old terms of address – quite the reverse.

Language is a living thing and develops with the society – surely you would not advocate using Shakespearean English in London today for example!

Patrick

[meadish_sweetball]

Just putting the whole thing into context. It does not hurt to reflect about these things. In general I think you are correct about usage - certainly so for learners of Thai. It is always better to err on the side of politeness than the opposite - but once you have been there, done that, you may want to explore the other possibilities and what you can do with the remaining nuances...

Most Thais I meet are surprised at how 'suphaab' I am (except for my girlfriend, who has to suffer me trying out all the new rude vocabulary I learn, to see what effect it may have).

[jdinasia]

I've been here longer than you have .... neener neener neener!(or is that my ___ is longer?)

Basically, in my experience, most BKK Thais will chuckle when a foriegner uses "Ai" or "Ee" assuming that said foriegner hangs out with people from Isaan. They won't, however, be horrified or offended.

Geneally speaking again ... and this is based upon only my experience ... if you are trying to be polite you'll be treated well ...

Personally I stick with slightly more common bangkok terms and only use Ai or Ee with close friends. (or when upcountry)

Cheers to all tht participate in the forum.