Our Kids' I Q Is Down? It's The Education, Stupid!: Thai Talk

[atyclb]

Low IQ's and EQ's in Thailand !! Wow, shocking to read about. I would have NEVER even had a nano suspicion of such an issue in society.

Seriously, the new here is circular in nature as are the issues and resolutions, not leaving the circle.

[h5kaf]

The initial conclusion is that the factor contributing to lower IQ is diet. The survey found that children fed with their mother's milk for six months had higher IQs than those breastfed for only three months. Other factors include consumption of iodine and iron.

Ah yes, the diet excuse.

Perhaps the children breast fed for 6 months have a higher IQ because their parents, or at least the mother, have more time to spend with them, thus developing a stronger "EQ" on the child.

Reminds me of a conversation a friend overheard, on the taxi the driver was on the phone talking with his wife, he was upset their child failed some exam, he didn't understand how because they had been giving the kid that chicken extract drink that promotes itself as a genius elixir.

The development of intelligence requires an intellectually stimulating environment for the children, starting from their birth. No amount of chicken soup is going to compensate for that.

Ha! Ha! very funny - the chicken soup solution to all your educational needs!!!!

On a more serious note, I am of the opinion that "Intelligence" is innate and the result of genetic endowment. However the result of intelligence tests which measure IQ are, in my opinion, more affected by social and developmental factors than anything else. The IQ tests can be manipulated by children learning to answer the type of questions asked. Not all students have an equal "intellectual" ability as some are more gifted in art and crafts than the more abstract subjects. But this does not in any way reflect on their "intelligence".

I have met many Thai adults who are very poorly educated and who could never complete an intelligence test. However they were all very 'street smart' and able to act decisively and with considerable flair in their business dealings. I would view this as a more compelling example of intelligence than the much talked of IQ tests. My Thai girlfriend left school at 14 and in no way would she get a good score on an IQ test; but if she had been brought up in the UK or say Australia she would surely have gone to university and got a decent degree. She is bright. Not sure she was brought up on chicken soup though.

[fareastguy]

You don't need to educate farmers or cannon fodder:

farmers need to stay up to their necks in muck & cannon fodder needs to stay up to it's neck in muck & bullets !

Save the best for the elite to inherit the nation.

This is like old world Siam, the big man shouts "jump" & the country trembles!

[Thailion]

The 'kid' in the front on the picture (sitting on the table legs) looks like he's had to repeat a 'few' times!!!

Wonder what is IQ is....better get him a tablet!

[MaxLee]

The political or high status elite just want their children to get "the good grades on paper", and the rest is up to their feudal corrupt ancestors to "shield them away from criticsm and loss of face of the family clan"....

In other words, high status can buy education and protection money for the sake of saving face, so the rich and their children and the children's children are always right, and never be questioned....

[jerrysteve]

There I.Q.s may be down comparably speaking but they dam sure know about money..

and thats irrespecitive and mutually exclusive of being able to read, write, and speak English.

The only ones who's I.Q, is down and who;s perceptability is lacking is the Ministry of Education..

You cannot make learn anything including chicken soup from chicken poop.

They definetly know how to use an electionic calculator and maybe thats all they really ever need to know;

with the exception of learning to count change back if the batteries go out on their hand held electronic calculators.

[jerrysteve]

With 50 to 60 students in a government school, even the very best teachers with the very best skills get lost along the way, and so do the students. Edited October 18, 2012 by jerrysteve

[MaxLee]

With 50 to 60 students in a government school, even the very best teachers with the very best skills get lost along the way, and so do the students.

I second that, because I once took such a position after my Bachelors in International College.... I mean it wasn't exactly 50-7- students, but it was a primary kindergarten school, from kindergarten to Grade 6 level where I volunteerly taught... Let's say without any assistance, teaching was unpleasant, some teachers were nice enough to help me out in my sporadic lessons attempt, while some teachers didn't help me at all.

I mean the experience wasn't all that bad, but it wasn't always pleasant,... let me just say nobody can blame the children alopne for "behaving like children", and I alone cannot discipline a group of 30-40 max children. IMO playing around with them and teaching them casual things or keywords was better than, rote -teaching them... But some teachers there were so brutal they beat the children up so badly for being al noisy and playful with me....

You can't blame children for being children,... but teaching a group of 30-60 children in a classroom requires teamwork of 2 or in best cases 3 people, but schools do not want to just invest in that soret of money and blame it on the teachers.... as typical...

[ozyjon]

There are three main things that make students appear more stupid than they really are:

1. Exams

2. Status

3. Face

If the money hungry stubborn Elite parenthood and education ministries would focus on changing this culture first, we would encourage students to think outside if the box more instead of keeping them in the box.

Or spending 10 hours a day watching the box, the rest of the time eating and sleeping.

[maccaroni man]

lets be honest here when young children are placed in class rooms with 50 other children only the few will be able to concentrate enough to get "it" the 1st time around. too many students means too little time to answer questions and insure that the whole class has "it". When children produce a low mark on test at an older age they are streemed to votec rather than accademic learning. There are many older students in the thai schools system that are able to become accountants on an international standard, doctors on an international level along with engineers and architects the same as many before them. while the school sytem ois far from perfect the burden rest at home too, parents who do not believe in study will not push the children to do the work that is required in the thai system.

[gp2002]

I'm a teacher and I have ONE word to describe the kids of today............LAZY!! Plain and simple.

They expect everything to be done for them (because the parents do everything for them) and when it's not, they receive a passing grade anyway because we 're 'encouraged' to give the kids a passing grade.

That's the education system everywhere............not just in Thailand.

[Nacho]

I came across this article a while ago, and this topic reminded me of it. Maybe it would be a good idea for Thailand to look at some other countries education systems to try to improve their own. Or being the Thai way of not wanting outside help. look at their own private schools for help in improving the public system.

Education: Teach to the best

Today, Finland is regularly ranked as having one of the best-performing education systems in the world. The country's literacy rate is tops, its math proficiency second, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, an international trade group. Students from elementary through high school are among the world's best in test scores.

A generation ago, that wasn't the case. In the 1970s, Finland's schools were among the worst in the developed world.

What changed?

The problem was attacked on all sides, says Pasi Sahlberg, a former official in Finland's education ministry.

The country invested heavily in teacher education, requiring master's degree-based, five-year qualifications instead of three-year bachelor's degrees. Child poverty was addressed with meals, health care, dental care and counseling -- all free of charge for children. Finally, the system pursued what Sahlberg calls "intelligent accountability" that combines standardized testing with teacher assessment and school self-inspection -- with an emphasis on the teachers, not the tests.

Where did they get their ideas? Actually, they got a lot of them from the United States.

And yet Americans are forever lamenting the state of their schools. As Diane Ravitch, education historian and former assistant secretary of education to President George H.W. Bush, points out, we've been fretting about the American system and looking enviously over our shoulders for decades, whether it's to Germany, England, the former Soviet Union, Japan or China."Within your 15,000 districts and 100,000 schools you have probably all the educational innovation that anybody needs to build good schools or well-performing districts," he says. "The Finnish education system owes a lot to these American ideas."

"We have this narrative that we're failing, failing, failing. The rest of the world would like to be like us, and we're saying, 'What's wrong with us? We're so terrible.' It must be some kind of American inferiority complex," she says.

Yes, of course there are schools with problems. Some districts have been damaged by cheating scandals, others suffer from poor facilities. The battle to improve test scores, led by federal programs such as No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top, has provoked criticism (including Ravitch's). Some officials want to give more money to charter schools at the expense of the public system or offer "school choice" through vouchers.

Finland, which is small, homogenous and has less income inequality between rich and poor, managed to completely remake its structure. Is that possible in the polyglot, poverty-pocked United States?

It's already happening. West Virginia has instituted some of Finland's ideas -- some of which, of course, originated in the United States. Sahlberg believes they can work throughout the country, but they have to start with respect and training for the teacher.

"I think there is far too much loose rhetoric criticizing public school systems and blaming teachers in the U.S. that has no ground," he says. Finland has such respect for teachers that the job is now seen as being "on par with other academic positions, such as lawyers and doctors," he says. But it's because the country invested in the profession and continues to do so.

Ravitch adds that society has to join in. "There's a youth culture that's very disobedient, and the laws are such that it's very hard to maintain any kind of standard of discipline, and everybody blames the teachers," she says. "But it's kind of a vicious circle, because you have a lot of parents who are not particularly responsible either. The most common complaint at schools is if there's a parent night, there are many schools where nobody shows up."

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/02/us/american-exceptionalism-other-countries-lessons/index.html

[vijer]

Health Ministry's Mental Health Department[/color]' timestamp='1350516299' post='5762221']

The initial conclusion is that the factor contributing to lower IQ is diet. The survey found that children fed with their mother's milk for six months had higher IQs than those breastfed for only three months. Other factors include consumption of iodine and iron.

Beautiful, just give all the children breast milk and they will automatically have IQ's above 130!!

Dumb arse, the problem is with the old brown dudes protecting their jobs and tea money. That and just the plain ignorance of the Thai education system and the Thai peoples willingness to put up with crap without complaint. Every week the Thai students get to school by 7:30 so that some bureaucrat can spew noise at them for 30 minutes or more. There is zero, ZERO, benefit to anyone except the bureaucrat who feels important. The kids exhibit the classic symptoms of Pavlov's dog, they listen to some igit drone on and wait to hear the call for their class to be released to their home room. I would never send my kid to a Thai school and if I did my kid would be 40 minutes late every day.

Then you have the problem that you can't fail any kid so the kids don't care. And then all the interruptions with Sports Day and other nonsense. I could go on but why, only TV members are listening and even if someone in the education system is reading TV they are more likely to continue worrying about keeping their job and tea money flowing then improving the education system.

[jojodontyouknow]

I really feel for these kids. The other day at work, I was trying to explain basic math to my colleague, even using a calculator. Then I asked her what 2 x 4 was, and she answered "5"? She is in her 20's. Now I see why so many people are starting charity organizations to raise money to send Thai people to school.

[maoro2013]

Do you know what IQ is?

It is the norm for a given population.

If it is for Thailand only, then many of previous posts are adopting something not pertinant.

[spirit47]

Since a few months, I give basic english lessons, to a small group of children. They are aged between 8 and 16, and only one can speak English a little bit. I don't know, what they doing in the school, but they not stupid. But the most have problems to concentrate, the girls are better then the boys.

That there is no money, for more teacher and there education too, is here terrible, the corruption in all areas is worse.

So, I must say, that the Administration, what colour ever, is not interested to change this. The people match perfect with the system.

And I miss curiosity by the children, but I think, it is the worldwide culture of hard core capitalism. No ideals, no culture, no lifestyle, only money, sad generation.

Inasmuch as your writing indicates that you are not a native English speaker, I wonder what could possibly qualify you to give English lessons.

Versteh?

Looks like everyone's giving you an F on this forum, mate. I hope those basic lessons were free of charge...

Yes, you are right, I'am a german, and the lessons are free. But that is no problem, because we do basics and conversation. And for the pronunciation, I speaking clear English. What should I do, I'am the best English speaker in our area, and they want me to teach the children. But if anybody have a time on Saturday 1400, you invited to visit us, send me an PM.

[Bagwan]

You cannot teach a man anything. You can only help him to find it within himself. Galileo quote.

I am sure that the home environment and parental interest are major factors in a child's education. Casting my mind back to my primary and secondary education it was noticeable that the children who came from smaller families and a slighter higher standard of living received higher marks in the annual examinations. It is fair to say that they were better behaved at school also. There are shining exceptions to this and I claim to be one. I was born into a large family and have no idea where my love of learning was generated from; it certainly wasn't from any encouragement that my family bestowed upon me. My family's attitude was that it was alright for me as I was clever and could pass examinations whereas they were not and therefore could not. They have not succeeded in life - if earning power and status count for anything - because they beat themselves and did not heed the old adage that as soon as you say you cannot, then you never will. My younger brother is the most stupidest person I have ever known which confirms my contention in my first sentence.

I think that most Thai children do not receive the attention and interest from their parents and other relatives that they need to succeed or at least do better than they do. It seems to me that a distinct lack of ambition to build a better life for themselves is the norm and my observations show me that girls, bless them, show more commitment to bucking this trend. Further to this, most of the kids or their families do not have high expectations for themselves. I was fortunate in have a wonderful lady teacher from the age of 9 to 11 years. Having pased the Common Entrance examination I was scheduled to attend the local grammar school whilst my classmates would go to schools where their education would include subjects such as metalwork and carpentry. I suppose that I was destined to be groomed for the law, medicine or some other profession while they were condemned to be plumbers or some other craftsmen and if failing that, to be factory fodder. I decided that I would not take the opportunity open to me and elected to stay with my class mates rather than join up with 'a lot of posh kids'. My schoolmistress was obviously distressed by this and one afternoon, having finished an exercise I was gazing out of the window at a blue sky and wondering what was I doing sitting in a classroom twiddling my thumbs when I could be out in the sunshine playing cricket or football or some other pleasureable pasttime. She caught my eye and mouthed 'had I finished' and I nodded. She beckoned me out to her desk and asked me why I would not go to grammar school. She asked had I ever been to Sutton and I replied that of course I had, and had 'scrumped' in many of the extensive back gardens of the fine houses there. Wouldn't I like to live in a house like that she asked. I thought she had lost all common sense. She then asked what I wanted to be in life and of course i answered 'A footballer, Miss'. Wouldn't I like to be a doctor or a lawyer she then asked. I told her that that was not for the likes of me, indicating that I knew my place in society. I thought that she was completely off her rocker for even suggesting that I could reach such giddy heights. Then in a master (mistress?) stroke of psychology asked what I wanted most in the World. I contemplated and then answered, "I'd like a torch, Miss." She then said that she had a torch and she would take it to be refurbished and new batteries and a bulb inserted and would give it to me if I went to grammar school. Wow! What a bargain to my juvenile mind. I agreed to be bribed and to this day I bless her memory. If only Thai kids had teachers of her quality and commitment to their charges. Faint hopes I fear. If their teachers are stupid enough to get themselves into debt, what chance have the kids got? How many Thai kids dare dream of their elevation in society and act upon it?

I totally agree with the condemnation of the Thai education system that many here have written of, but as I told the schoolmistress of my 12 year old niece who I have schooled to handle algebra and geometry to the schoolies' consternation, positive people do not have problems, they just have opportunities to shine. In failing to overcome the difficulties that the system confronts her with, she is failing in her duties as a teacher and condemning her charges to a life where their preoccupation is survival. Abraham Lincoln lived in a log cabin and learned to read and write on the back of a shovel by the light of a fire.

[crazygreg44]

Thais average on 100 points in IQ ??? I always thought the IQ index starts at 30 points, giving them a chance to gain a handful of point on the scale upward . . .

[maidu]

Did any researchers look at how much MSG Thai kids ingest? .....compared to other kids which scored higher? Granted, it may just be one of many factors, but MSG has been shown to physically 'jangle' brain cells. It bad for adults, and worse for kids. I may be in a small minority, but any time I unwittingly ingest MSG, I wake up at night, with violent dreams. It affects different people different ways: Some get headaches (which I also get), others get rapid/weak pulse. Thais eat prodigious amounts of MSG. I don't care so much how it affects adults, though added wife-beatings are a drag. I care more for how it affects Thai children, their moods, their thinking abilities, and their brain development.

[Gweiloman]

Lets face some home truths..most of which have bubbled to the surface in previous posts.

1. The Thai education system is successful. It is successful because it fulfills the goals of those who govern and have power here, that being, to design a system which will keep the poor in their place.

2. Thais have for many years been fed a very slick propaganda model which is essentially a navel gazing retrospective of some mythical, glorious past.

3. Thai culture is change resistant (see point # 2).

4. Thais are particular and exact in their nature... an offshoot of their convoluted language???? and as a consequence seem to be mesmerised by figures. They love test scores.

So we have a system run by the elites for the elites designed to disenfranchise the poor. I have been an educator all my working life and have worked in hi so international schools here as well as bi - lingual schools. I know a little bit about how children best learn. As for this shameful story on IQ??? yes IQ is meant to test innate ability but it often doesn't. Once IQ tests start to be formatted as a verbal response, they tend to test linguistic ability. Even mathematics tests are often closely bound to verbal comprehension. I have worked in Thai schools where yes ...'everybody wins a prize folks' and 85% is the magic number. I have witnessed the concerned Thai mother doing her child's homework on the skytrain, I have seen Thai toddlers barely able to pull their 'suitcase' of homework behind them.....more is better. IQ will not tell you all that much about a child's education; note I said education as opposed to knowledge, two quite different things. It may give some indication of the child's potential, that's all. My very real fear is that Thai character is such that they will not buck the feudal system which is at the rotten core of so much that is holding this country back. Things will continue as they always have. Hi So's will send their kids offshore, middle classes will struggle to send their kids to a Thai uni and get a worthless piece of paper and the rural and poor will continue to provide the elite with babies, who will grow up to work in their factories etc., etc. for, if they are lucky 200 Baht a day. All is well in the universe and Thailand in particular and things are as they are meant to be.

Well said and I fully agree with you. I have a 1 yr old son and am wondering how to get him properly educated when the time comes.

On another note, I wonder how many farangs could / would want to stay in Thailand if the whole society was more educated and therefore more 'western'?

[driedmango]

I would wonder what the IQ of the westerners over there is ? LOL

[endure]

On another note, I wonder how many farangs could / would want to stay in Thailand if the whole society was more educated and therefore more 'western'?

Why do you think that a better education would make them more 'western'?

[driedmango]

On another note, I wonder how many farangs could / would want to stay in Thailand if the whole society was more educated and therefore more 'western'?

Why do you think that a better education would make them more 'western'?

Some of the stupidest people I have ever met have high levels of education.

[Thaddeus]

On another note, I wonder how many farangs could / would want to stay in Thailand if the whole society was more educated and therefore more 'western'?

Why do you think that a better education would make them more 'western'?

Some of the stupidest people I have ever met have high levels of education.

If they play their cards right, some can end up as non-elected politicians.

[jshorts]

I'm a teacher and I have ONE word to describe the kids of today............LAZY!! Plain and simple.

They expect everything to be done for them (because the parents do everything for them) and when it's not, they receive a passing grade anyway because we 're 'encouraged' to give the kids a passing grade.

That's the education system everywhere............not just in Thailand.

I believe you are mistaken. That is not the education system everywhere. Japan is a prime example.

[jshorts]

I really feel for these kids. The other day at work, I was trying to explain basic math to my colleague, even using a calculator. Then I asked her what 2 x 4 was, and she answered "5"? She is in her 20's. Now I see why so many people are starting charity organizations to raise money to send Thai people to school.

I would like to contribute to one of these organizations. Would you please provide a link? Thanks!

[jshorts]

Since a few months, I give basic english lessons, to a small group of children. They are aged between 8 and 16, and only one can speak English a little bit. I don't know, what they doing in the school, but they not stupid. But the most have problems to concentrate, the girls are better then the boys.

That there is no money, for more teacher and there education too, is here terrible, the corruption in all areas is worse.

So, I must say, that the Administration, what colour ever, is not interested to change this. The people match perfect with the system.

And I miss curiosity by the children, but I think, it is the worldwide culture of hard core capitalism. No ideals, no culture, no lifestyle, only money, sad generation.

Inasmuch as your writing indicates that you are not a native English speaker, I wonder what could possibly qualify you to give English lessons.

Versteh?

Looks like everyone's giving you an F on this forum, mate. I hope those basic lessons were free of charge...

Yes, you are right, I'am a german, and the lessons are free. But that is no problem, because we do basics and conversation. And for the pronunciation, I speaking clear English. What should I do, I'am the best English speaker in our area, and they want me to teach the children. But if anybody have a time on Saturday 1400, you invited to visit us, send me an PM.

I am surprised that you didn't ask me how I knew that you are German.

I would be more than slightly surprised if you spoke "clear English." I have read two of your posts and they are filled with errors, typical errors that Germans make on a regular and ongoing basis.

If you would like specific examples, you can send me a private message.

Are you trying to tell me that a bad English teacher is somehow better than no English teacher at all? You do the same (if not worse) disservice to the Thai children as the poorly trained Thai teachers do.

BTW, where are you located? I would be interested in assisting at your 2 p.m. classes.

[jshorts]

On another note, I wonder how many farangs could / would want to stay in Thailand if the whole society was more educated and therefore more 'western'?

Why do you think that a better education would make them more 'western'?

Some of the stupidest people I have ever met have high levels of education.

All right, let's just dive right into this stupid thing. Recently, a professional athlete was quoted in an article as saying I made the stupidest mistake. The athlete was talking about his personal life-his VERY personal life. (It's hard to keep track these days, isn't it?) The superlative form of stupid is most stupid, as in I made the most stupid mistake, not stupidest. Stupidest can be heard and seen everywhere, but it's wrong. (Please don't ask me to roll out my entire exposition on why finding a word in a modern dictionary doesn't make it legitimate, standard English. Paul and I have already paddled across that ocean several times.)Stupid is just like lucid (same -id ending). The comparative form is more lucid, and the superlative form is most lucid. Likewise, the comparative form of stupid is more stupid, and the superlative form is most stupid. In fact, in general, -id words use more and most instead of -er and -est. (The water was more tepid, he was the most lucid, they could have been more candid, his reflexes have grown more torpid, the milk was the most rancid, his tongue had grown more acrid. No one would even think to say tepidest, lucidest, candidest, torpidest, rancidest, or acridest.) Oddly enough, as many times as I've heard the word stupidest (and believe me, if I sold my soul to the devil in order to have eternal life, that wouldn't be long enough for me to count the number of times that I've heard it over the past few years), I'm not sure that I've ever heard anyone use the word stupider (even though it is now given as an alternative form in some modern dictionaries!). Maybe that's because people know how stupid the word stupider sounds and that the correct form is more stupid. Then why don't they know how stupid stupidest sounds and that the correct form is most stupid? Regardless, the aforementioned athlete may have made the most stupid mistake in his personal life, but he also made a mistake when he used the word stupidest. I hope that we can now lay this stupid grammar error to rest. == ==http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_stupidest_a_word Edited October 18, 2012 by jshorts

[endure]

I think you'll find that grammar Nazis aren't particularly welcome round here...

[metisdead]

Continued off topic grammar police posts have been removed.

Misspellings and grammatical errors can make posts difficult to understand. However English is not always the first language of our members so don't waste space correcting other members' grammar and spelling where it isn't necessary.