4 Feb Anti-thaksin Demonstration Thread

[sriracha john]

PM Thaksin: No more rally at the Royal Plaza

Thaksin to prohibit the use of Royal Plaza for next rally

Published on Feb 06 , 2006

Chiang Mai - Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Monday the government will not allow media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul to hold another anti-government rally at the Royal Plaza.

"Enough! They can no longer use the Royal Plaza because it is part of the royal compound and public area. They cannot obstruct traffic flows. Democracy activities have to be carried out within the limit [of the laws]," Thaksin said.

He said if Sondhi wanted to hold more rallies, he would have to use other areas.

- The Nation

[Heng]

if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

Any speculation about what the His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is or is not thinking or any actions He does or does not take is grossly inappropriate and has no place in this discussion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sondhi's parting words give hope to anti-Thaksin protestors

“I call him ‘Thaksin,’ not ‘Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin,’ because that title is given by the king and he has offended the king too many times [to hold such a title],” said Sondhi.

speech continues here:

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

"You also notice I call him Thaksin and not "Dr. Thaksin," because that title is given by an institute of higher education and he has offended common intelligence too many times [to hold such a title]," Sondhi continued.

Agree wholeheartedly. Of course, it's just as grossly inappropriate for Sondhi to do so as well. That's one thing keeping the Sondhi ranks relatively thin for this 'wishful thinking revolution.'

[tettyan]

I don't appreciate your condescending attitutde towards me. I may be just a rice farmer in the north but I am aware of alot of what happens. Let me give you a brief overview about what life is like in a rural Thai village. People here have access to Thai newspapers. Most people here are not interested in keeping up on political news. Most people here know about corruption in the gov't because it pervades gov't at all levels....even at the level that we villagers deal with....we know who gets the contracts for build the pavement in our village and we know who they know and why they got the contract. We know why a political party will pay us to go to big events....We know why they will offer 10 times the amount for 'diesel money' for bringing your pickup full of friends to the rally.....We know why people run for Parliament...its to make money....we know that making money is the reason to go into politics and we know how much an MP's salary is and we know that after a few years they are rich and we know where the money comes from....these are not secrets. We know that all the politicians are corrupt and we know that includes Toxin......we have never experienced any other kind of gov't and we know that this is the Thai way for politics and we know that Thai ways are best so we don't really care that Toxin is corrupt because so is everyone else from Toxin right on down to the falang who pays the traffic cop for an infraction just like all sensible Thai people do.

Now I will repeat what I said in my previous post. It is very simple. The poster I was replying to tried to make it sound like newspapers are not avilable in most of Thailand outside Bangkok and I want to repeat that this is total rubbish...total and utter rubbish. Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see....so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources.

This is what I see around me.....maybe it is not representative of every village in every region of Thailand...maybe I'm deluded....maybe not.

Chownah

PS Did I forget to say the the notion that newspapers are not available everywhere in Thailand is total and utter rubbish?....well it is.

Chownah

Dear Khun Chownah,

It was not my intention to be condescending - the format of my post was to lay out the facts as I see them. Of course, you know better than I about what goes on in your village, since I don't live there. And it's perfectly fair for you to discuss anecdotal examples based on your experiences where you live.

While I appreciate reading about the situation in your village, on the other hand, I wanted to discuss the bigger picture. And the fact is is that the overwhelming majority of Thais rely on government-controlled media outlets for their information. Did I see either you or Khun Heng try to directly refute the points that I presented in my post? I would have welcomed a point-by-point rebuttal of the issues that I raised. But instead, I hear you accusing me of having a "condescending attitude." Look, I'm happy to discuss any subject witn anyone, even with people who disagree, but let's stick to the substance. We're not here to discuss each other.

Regards,

Tettyan

Edited February 6, 2006 by tettyan

[sriracha john]

if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

Any speculation about what the His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is or is not thinking or any actions He does or does not take is grossly inappropriate and has no place in this discussion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sondhi's parting words give hope to anti-Thaksin protestors

“I call him ‘Thaksin,’ not ‘Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin,’ because that title is given by the king and he has offended the king too many times [to hold such a title],” said Sondhi.

speech continues here:

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

"You also notice I call him Thaksin and not "Dr. Thaksin," because that title is given by an institute of higher education and he has offended common intelligence too many times [to hold such a title]," Sondhi continued.

Agree wholeheartedly. Of course, it's just as grossly inappropriate for Sondhi to do so as well.

The same goes for Thaksin as well with his numerous inappropriate comments. However, until either of them apply for membership with thaivisa, there's not much we can do about it. All that we can really address are the inappropriate comments from posters that are members.

Thank you for your agreement.

Edited February 6, 2006 by sriracha john

[Heng]

if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

Any speculation about what the His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is or is not thinking or any actions He does or does not take is grossly inappropriate and has no place in this discussion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Sondhi's parting words give hope to anti-Thaksin protestors

“I call him ‘Thaksin,’ not ‘Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin,’ because that title is given by the king and he has offended the king too many times [to hold such a title],” said Sondhi.

speech continues here:

Bangkok Herald-Examiner

"You also notice I call him Thaksin and not "Dr. Thaksin," because that title is given by an institute of higher education and he has offended common intelligence too many times [to hold such a title]," Sondhi continued.

Agree wholeheartedly. Of course, it's just as grossly inappropriate for Sondhi to do so as well.

The same goes for Thaksin as well with his numerous inappropriate comments. However, until either of them apply for membership with thaivisa, there's not much we can do about it. All that we can really address are the inappropriate comments from posters that are members.

Thank you for your agreement.

Sure there is. One can not openly quote those who make inappropriate statements regarding the monarchy without mentioning that quoting such statements are just as inappropriate. Not my forum, so it's not my call if it's within limits or not. If it were, I'd say it's already out of bounds.

[sriracha john]

Thanks for the input, but I believe that there remains a large difference between a member voicing speculation and an non-member... but nevermind, I appreciate the pointer and I'll remember it next time I log onto hengvisa.com/forum

[Heng]

Thanks for the input, but I believe that there remains a large difference between a member voicing speculation and an non-member... but nevermind, I appreciate the pointer and I'll remember it next time I log onto hengvisa.com/forum

[sriracha john]

More in-party in-fighting:

THAI RAK THAI: Snoh 'checks numbers for censure move'

Published on February 07, 2006

Faction head wants a list of ruling party MPs who'll vote against the PM: source

Wang Nam Yen faction leader Snoh Thienthong yesterday ordered a ruling party MP to gather a list of Thai Rak Thai members to launch a no-confidence debate against the prime minister, a source said.

TRT party-list MP Pramuan Ruchanaseree was told to get the signatures of other faction members who want to censure Thaksin. The Wang Nam Yen faction consists of more than 30 MPs, the source said.

"Snoh believes that his group can gain the upper hand if they move against the government from within the parliamentary system rather than holding a public rally to oust Thaksin," the source said.

If Thai Rak Thai expels the faction, then the Wang Nam Yen faction could file complaints with the Constitution Court, saying that any political manoeuvring against the government was just part of their duty as MPs.

Snoh challenged Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday to expel all of his faction members following the resignation from the Cabinet of two ministers who belong to the faction.

Snoh moved after Information Technology and Communication Minister Sora-at Klinpratoom and Culture Minister Uraiwan Thienthong, his wife, stepped down last week.

Snoh denied reports that Sora-at resigned in return for favours he owed to Snoh. Sora-at had stood down for ideological reasons, he said. "Everyone volunteers to work for the country and should return the gratitude to the land and the people by sticking to the righteous course."

Snoh said that in his long years in politics he had never known a situation when a respected national figure who bestows degrees at major universities would ask a "particular man" to quit. He was referring to a meeting at the PM's house last week when the premier was allegedly advised to stand down.

Thaksin insisted on Saturday he would resign only if His Majesty the King asked him to do so.

Snoh said that if Thakin expelled him, he would make all Wang Nam Yen faction members resign with him, then seek justice with the Constitution Court.

He refused to say how many MPs would follow him. He said he would join with the Wang Nam Yom faction to call for a change to the Constitution.

He added that Thaksin had no right to ban government critic Sondhi Limthongkul from using the Royal Plaza to organise another rally to oust the government.

The PM said he had no idea whether he would talk with Snoh. "Today, the situation has changed a lot," he said.

Asked what Thai Rak Thai would do after Wang Nam Yen said it would quit the party, Thaksin said: "There will be only the Thai Rak Thai Party and no Wang Nam Yen Party."

=========================================================

Are there any comparative numbers available from Thaivisa? Were Saturday/Sunday numbers high?

Surfers flock to Net for news of rally

Published on February 07, 2006

Saturday's February 4 'Liberation Rally' was credited for driving a record number of Thai Internet users to media websites as they sought out real-time updates of the situation.

The Net surfers turned in droves to the high-technology medium, abandoning free-to-air television broadcasts that gave them only brief news stories at hourly intervals.

Viewers of the website www.nationmultimedia.com, counted by unique internet protocol (unique IP), reached 11,070 people on Saturday. That was a marked increase from e number increased from the day earlier, when 8,968 people viewed the website.

The websites of The Nation's sister newspapers also drew more viewers. www.komchadluek.com drew 33,934 viewers on Saturday, while 31,867 people visited the website on Friday. The average is 24,000 a day.

At www.bangkokbiznews.com, 18,488 people visited, nearly 4.500 above the average. The page views of the website reached 150,000 on Friday and 110,000 on Saturday, setting a record. It is usually visited 80,000 to 90,000 times a day.

Nation Channel's website gained 1,578 viewers on Friday and 7,632 on Saturday. The website of Manager Media Group reported the most viewers at 167,887 on Saturday, up 32,003 from Friday’s 135,884.

The Daily News website reported 45,175 viewers on Friday and 43,328 viewers on Saturday, while its average is 40,000 visitors per day.

The websites of newspapers like Thai Rath, Matichon, Khao Sod, Thai Post, the Bangkok Post, and Naew Na also reported increased viewers on the day.

The popular www.pantip.com had 69,386 viewers on the day, before dropping to 68,119 on Sunday. The website said the average number of viewers was around 60,000 per day.

- The Nation

Edited February 6, 2006 by sriracha john

[mogoso]

Why do I get the feeling that the vast amount of euros want a gov't changed into what they feel is right for the Thai people.

The Thai people have made it clear in the past they when they felt wronged, and I get the impression, despite the PM families and friends profiteering, that they feel finacially better than they were under the democrats. The financial crash in the 1990s was under a corrupt democratic gov't.

Maybe I don't agree with everything or even much what the present gov't is doing, but it's not ever going to be in my power to change it. I doubt I'll ever vote in a Thai election, but when I live under their laws I'll follow them, no matter who is in power. And if I don't like it, I'll move back to the states or Vietnam or Chili, or where ever I feel, what I have to offer a society, be it financial or whatever is welcomed.

[chownah]

. How do you think people find out the winning lottery numbers!!!

I forgot to tell you. They all crowd around the local village TV set and watch the draw on television. Takes hours, and they have endless fun Nothing else to do as no newspaers to read.

(The Kaman down theroad gets the results off his ipStar satellite connection - a free gift from his beloved leader.)

A free gift from his beloved leader.....EXACTLY!!!! Finally you understand. People see Toxin benefitting them. They can now get the lottery results from a satellite orbiting in space....it makes them proud to be part of the 21st century!!! They don't need no stinking newspapers...they've got ipStar!!!! This is EXACTLY why the Thai people by and large have no problem with Toxin....the corruption filters down to them in ways that never happened before...I think they love it...but I could be wrong. If people liked Toxin they would vote for him in large numbers....

[sriracha john]

EGAT Chief Chai-anan's resignation turns up the heat on PM

Egat chief cites worry of sell-off to foreigners

POST REPORTERS

The resignation of Chai-anan Samudavanija as president of Egat Plc yesterday tightened the screws on beleaguered Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, with anti-privatisation groups promptly calling on cabinet ministers to join them in forcing Mr. Thaksin from office. The Democrat party also called for some government MPs to sign its motion to censure the prime minister.

Mr. Chai-anan, who is also director of Vajiravudh College, tendered his resignation letter to Finance Minister Thanong Bidaya yesterday, citing his concern that the government could sell Egat off to foreigners in the future after the prime minister's family sold Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore on Jan 23.

Previously, Mr. Chai-anan had believed that the government would limit the foreign shareholding in Egat and use the privatisation process to improve its operations and transparency.

Prommin Lertsuridej, the prime minister's secretary-general, dismissed Mr. Chai-anan's fears, saying the planned sale of Egat shares through the Stock Exchange of Thailand would be limited to 25% and it was unlikely that the state would sell the shares to foreigners.

Rosana Tositrakul, director of the Confederation of Consumer Organisations, welcomed Mr. Chai-anan's decision, saying his resignation was significant because he was a recognised academic who had previously supported Mr. Thaksin's state enterprise privatisation policy.

''Mr. Chai-anan's resignation confirms doubts about the government held by consumer groups and the public over its policies, especially the Egat privatisation,'' she said.

His action would likely add fuel to calls for political change because he was among those people who had signed their names to a letter demanding Mr. Thaksin's resignation, she said.

Miss Rosana also urged cabinet ministers, especially those who had joined the Oct 14, 1973 uprising, to resign to force the replacement of the prime minister in accordance with the constitution.

Opposition and Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva asked government MPs to join opposition parties in supporting a censure motion against Mr. Thaksin.

The motion needs at least two-fifths of the 500-seat Lower House. The opposition has 124 MPs _ the Democrats have 95, Chart Thai has 26 and Mahachon has three. It still needs 76 more votes to meet the required 200 to grill the premier.

The censure motion will target Mr. Thaksin's legitimacy to be leader of the government after the sale of Shin Corp by the Shinawatra and Damapong families and his role in connection with his family's businesses over the past five years.

Mr. Abhisit said he expects to file the motion before the next House session begins on March 4.

Sanoh Thienthong, leader of the dissident Wang Nam Yen faction in the prime minister's Thai Rak Thai party, told over 30 MPs in his faction to sign the censure motion.

His nephew Thanis Thienthong, an MP for Sa Kaeo, said he would sign the motion if the opposition had sound evidence and reasons to censure Mr. Thaksin.

Another faction member Nirun Namuangrak, an MP for Roi-et, said he would no longer bow to orders to ignore what was wrong and that he had been uneasy with such orders in the past.

Sources said Mr. Sanoh would file a petition with the Constitution Court if the Thai Rak Thai party ousted Wang Nam Yen MPs for signing the motion.

A civic group led by graft buster Veera Somkwamkid yesterday demanded that the National Corruption Counter Commission (NCCC) look into Mr. Thaksin's wealth.

In its petition, the People's Rights and Freedom Protection Group zeroed in on share transfers via Ample Rich Investments between Mr. Thaksin and his children, Panthongtae and Pinthongta.

According to the group, Mr. Panthongtae failed to produce proof that he had paid his father for the shares. Ms Pinthongta failed to do the same following the transfer of shares to her by her brother.

Given his background of transferring shares to nominees, including a chauffeur and maid, the group claimed that Mr. Thaksin had exploited legal loopholes to conceal his wealth.

The group also asked the NCCC to investigate if Mr. Thaksin fulfilled asset disclosure requirements after the transfer of shares in Ample Rich to Mr. Panthongtae in 2000.

Ample Rich was set up by the prime minister in 1999 with the hope of using the company, registered in the British Virgin Islands, to sell shares on the NASDAQ, the US technology stock market.

Mr. Thaksin transferred the Ample Rich shares to his son a year later. In 2005, Mr. Panthongtae sold off some of his stake in Ample Rich to Ms Pinthongta.

[chownah]

I don't appreciate your condescending attitutde towards me. I may be just a rice farmer in the north but I am aware of alot of what happens. Let me give you a brief overview about what life is like in a rural Thai village. People here have access to Thai newspapers. Most people here are not interested in keeping up on political news. Most people here know about corruption in the gov't because it pervades gov't at all levels....even at the level that we villagers deal with....we know who gets the contracts for build the pavement in our village and we know who they know and why they got the contract. We know why a political party will pay us to go to big events....We know why they will offer 10 times the amount for 'diesel money' for bringing your pickup full of friends to the rally.....We know why people run for Parliament...its to make money....we know that making money is the reason to go into politics and we know how much an MP's salary is and we know that after a few years they are rich and we know where the money comes from....these are not secrets. We know that all the politicians are corrupt and we know that includes Toxin......we have never experienced any other kind of gov't and we know that this is the Thai way for politics and we know that Thai ways are best so we don't really care that Toxin is corrupt because so is everyone else from Toxin right on down to the falang who pays the traffic cop for an infraction just like all sensible Thai people do.

Now I will repeat what I said in my previous post. It is very simple. The poster I was replying to tried to make it sound like newspapers are not avilable in most of Thailand outside Bangkok and I want to repeat that this is total rubbish...total and utter rubbish. Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see....so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources.

This is what I see around me.....maybe it is not representative of every village in every region of Thailand...maybe I'm deluded....maybe not.

Chownah

PS Did I forget to say the the notion that newspapers are not available everywhere in Thailand is total and utter rubbish?....well it is.

Chownah

Dear Khun Chownah,

It was not my intention to be condescending - the format of my post was to lay out the facts as I see them. Of course, you know better than I about what goes on in your village, since I don't live there. And it's perfectly fair for you to discuss anecdotal examples based on your experiences where you live.

While I appreciate reading about the situation in your village, on the other hand, I wanted to discuss the bigger picture. And the fact is is that the overwhelming majority of Thais rely on government-controlled media outlets for their information. Did I see either you or Khun Heng try to directly refute the points that I presented in my post? I would have welcomed a point-by-point rebuttal of the issues that I raised. But instead, I hear you accusing me of having a "condescending attitude." Look, I'm happy to discuss any subject witn anyone, even with people who disagree, but let's stick to the substance. We're not here to discuss each other.

Regards,

Tettyan

I thought that the point of disagreement was clear but I guess not. You seem to believe that Thai people don't know what's going on because of the lack of media to inform them. You expressed this opinion as a reply to my stating clearly that newspapers are available to everyone in Thailand. That post of mine was a direct reply to someone who indicated that it was their opinion that newspapers were not readily available outside Thailand. Before I go on I want to be sure that people know that this is total and utter rubbish. All newspapers area available virtually everywhere in Thailand.

To be sure that you understand how I disagree with your statements I will post a bit of your post below and then discuss. You posted:

"

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

"

I do recognize the pattern here but I'm thinking that you don't. It is the same pattern as found in the USA. It is typical in the US that quite often when I mention things that political figures have been accused of doing the people are clueless....and these people are very well educated with university degrees.....can you see the pattern? Would you say the Americans cannot easily access independent sources of news? Perhaps you would say that...I don't know. Many people do say that....but...for some reason my friends who ARE knowledgeable about political goings on have not difficulty finding access to independent sources of news......do you see the pattern? People who want to know find out....the rest don't bother...and people who think that the politically passive people should get involved blame it on the lack of available information...it is rubbish....those who know find out and those who don't know don't care enough to put out the small amount of effort needed to find out. I'm not saying that it is good that the bulk of Thais are apathetic...but don't blame it on lack of media.

Chownah

[sriracha john]

Forget hubs and crackdowns, the new buzz word in Thailand is "watchlist". Here's hoping they don't meet the same fate as the 2,500+ murdered in 2003-2004 on a different kind of "watchlist":

Police put Sondhi, 73 other activists on special watchlist

Bangkok Post

Auditor-general Khunying Jaruvan Maintaka, Sondhi Limthongkul and 72 others taking part in last Saturday's anti-Thaksin rally have been put on a "special watchlist", a police source said yesterday.

The 72 others, either Mr Sondhi's allies or fans of his Muang Thai Rai Sapda (Thailand Weekly) talk show, are mostly activists, academics and politicians.

They include teacher leaders Auaychai Wata and Chingchai Mongkoltham, consumer rights activist Rosana Tositrakul, labour leader Wilaiwan sae Tia, monk Phra Suwit Thammachiro of Wat Om Noi in Nakhon Pathom.

Politicians on the list include Democrat MP Kobsak Sabhavasu, Senator Nirun Phitakwatchara, and ex-senator Pol Gen Pratin Santiprapop.

Others joining the list are former graft fighter Klanarong Chanthik, academics Sungsidh Piriyarangsan, Varakorn Samkoses and Banthorn On-dam, retired army general Kittisak Ratthaprasert, pro-democracy activist Pibhop Dhongchai and social critic Sulak Sivaraksa.

A source close to the police Special Branch has admitted that the list exists but said it is just a simple watchlist, not a blacklist.

ahhhh.... the semantics makes a big difference...

Edited February 7, 2006 by sriracha john

[Jai Dee]

Army commander: the rally last weekend did not create harmonious feelings among Thai people.

Army commander General Sondhi Boonyaratglin (สนธิ บุญยรัตกลิน) said he is worried about the rally last weekend, as he believes it did not create harmonious feelings among Thai people.

General Sondhi said that the demonstrators used inappropriate language, adding that it was not related to calling for legitimacy in the democratic system. He asked the demonstrators not to mention the Royal Institution as it leads to nothing good and will cause more problems for the speakers. He also asked the people to live together in peace, and help develop the country, if they are really patriotic, adding that they should deliberate the news they receive carefully, as rumors are usually released to create confusion.

The Army general also commented on Mr. Sondhi Limthorngkul’s (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) submitting of a petition to His Majesty the King that it is a strategy to draw more people’s power. However, he said that the military will remain neutral, adding that they will not interfere with politics.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 Febuary 2006

[penzman]

A closer look at the Thai Rak Thai party under a scanning electron microscope is clearly showing hairline cracks all over it. This thing's been flying too long and put under too much stress by doing too many acrobatics.

[Jai Dee]

The government said that the rally planned this Saturday should be organized at other venues, instead of Royal Plaza.

The government expressed disagreement on another rally planned on February 11th, if the rally is aimed only at pressuring the government.

Government spokesperson Surapong Suebwonglee (สุรพงษ์ สืบวงศ์ลี) commented on a rally planned on this Saturday by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul (สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) that it is inappropriate if the demonstration has no clear objective, but to put pressure on the government. Since the demonstrators have submitted a petition to His Majesty the King on February 4th, he said they should wait for His Majesty’s response. He said, besides, that if the rally is to take place, it should not be held at the Royal Plaza, as it is considered Royal Residential grounds, adding that the venue should be elsewhere.

The government spokesperson added that the government will invite various parties for a discussion on February 9th, to formulate development schemes during the next three years. He said that if ideas on constitutional amendments are floated, the government is ready to give its support. However, he said that the amendments should consider the whole picture, and not particular issues.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 Febuary 2006

[sriracha john]

A closer look at the Thai Rak Thai party under a scanning electron microscope is clearly showing hairline cracks all over it. This thing's been flying too long and put under too much stress by doing too many acrobatics.

As more stress is placed upon it, the TRT Party crack seems to be getting so much larger that it is now visible with the naked eye. It appears to reflect that it is quite unsound, structurally:

Sanoh-Thaksin still far apart

Chances of birthday reconciliation wane

POST REPORTERS

A planned reconciliation meeting between Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and Thai Rak Thai dissident Sanoh Thienthong looked doomed to failure yesterday.

The two became entangled in a new row, this time over the resignation from the cabinet of a second member of Mr Sanoh's Wang Nam Yen faction.

The prime minister admitted he had second thoughts about the talks, set for Mr Sanoh's birthday on April 1, to patch up their differences.

"I am not sure now because there are many changes in the current political situation," he said in Chiang Mai where a cabinet meeting will be held today.

The talks were proposed by the prime minister in December last year, days after the veteran politician and faction leader again accused Mr Thaksin of using the premiership for personal gain.

The two traded more verbal barbs after the prime minister expressed sympathy for Information and Communications Technology Minister Sora-at Klinprathum.

He said the minister had telephoned him to apologise for his resignation, saying he had wanted to pay off all his debts of gratitude to Mr Sanoh once and for all.

Mr Thaksin's statement was countered by Mr Sanoh who strongly denied the minister had been pressured to step down from his cabinet post on Saturday.

"What the prime minister said about Mr Sora-at having to pay back a debt of gratitude was untrue," Mr Sanoh said at his home in Nonthaburi.

The minister decided to resign his portfolio because he still had a political conscience, Mr Sanoh said. He had not put any pressure on Mr Sora-at, who had been in contact with him all along before he decided to step down.

Mr Sora-at left the cabinet on Saturday, one day after the resignation of Culture Minister Uraiwan Thienthong, Mr Sanoh's wife, who said her political ethics left her no choice.

Mr Sora-at could not be reached for comment after letting a faction member announce his decision to resign.

Mr Sanoh also apologised to the public for having asked them to cast their votes for Mr Thaksin as prime minister.

Mr Sanoh campaigned strongly on Mr Thaksin's behalf during the last two general elections, which saw Thai Rak Thak swept to power.

But the prime minister insisted the departure of two of his ministers from the cabinet within two days did not send any political message to the government, since everyone knew why the two had resigned and it had nothing to do with politics.

Quite right, Mr. PM:

Uraiwan told reporters. "A politician must have morals."

Mr Thaksin said replacements for the two ministers would not be based on party-faction quotas but on individual qualifications.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai is overseeing Culture and Deputy Prime Minister Suchai Charoenratanakul is handling the ICT Ministry.

Edited February 7, 2006 by sriracha john

[tettyan]

I thought that the point of disagreement was clear but I guess not. You seem to believe that Thai people don't know what's going on because of the lack of media to inform them. You expressed this opinion as a reply to my stating clearly that newspapers are available to everyone in Thailand. That post of mine was a direct reply to someone who indicated that it was their opinion that newspapers were not readily available outside Thailand. Before I go on I want to be sure that people know that this is total and utter rubbish. All newspapers area available virtually everywhere in Thailand.

To be sure that you understand how I disagree with your statements I will post a bit of your post below and then discuss. You posted:

"

So do you recognize a pattern here? Most Thais upcountry (unless they have internet access) cannot easily access independent sources of news or information. A friend says that anytime she mentions stuff that Thaksin has been accused of to her family (who read Thai Rath and don't get CATV) are completely clueless. And that family is pretty well-educated; I'd hate to see what those with less education might be aware (or not aware) of.

"

I do recognize the pattern here but I'm thinking that you don't. It is the same pattern as found in the USA. It is typical in the US that quite often when I mention things that political figures have been accused of doing the people are clueless....and these people are very well educated with university degrees.....can you see the pattern? Would you say the Americans cannot easily access independent sources of news? Perhaps you would say that...I don't know. Many people do say that....but...for some reason my friends who ARE knowledgeable about political goings on have not difficulty finding access to independent sources of news......do you see the pattern? People who want to know find out....the rest don't bother...and people who think that the politically passive people should get involved blame it on the lack of available information...it is rubbish....those who know find out and those who don't know don't care enough to put out the small amount of effort needed to find out. I'm not saying that it is good that the bulk of Thais are apathetic...but don't blame it on lack of media.

Chownah

I'm not sure you understood exactly what I meant by "pattern." It's borne out by statistics - namely, that the majority of newspapers circulated in Thailand are read in Bangkok (source: Duncan McCargo's 1998 book on the Thai media). I don't have to repeat again what I said about radio and television. And while it may be true that there is a wide availability of print media sources in your village, given the stats, it certainly cannot be true of most villages. It certainly isn't true of the villages I've visited.

Newspapers are available almost everywhere. Every soi in every village has little stores selling stuff to the neighborhood and many of them carry newspaper.....and if people wanted them to carry the Bangkok Post or the Nation then they would get them....but they don't care....they don't want them.....they have no problem with this gov't as far as I can see....so why would they want to waste their time an money dealing with something that is not a problem (their point of view as I see it) when they have plenty of things in their lives that are problems which is where they try to focus their resources.

That sounds like a pretty interesting village, with sois and little kiosks? May I ask what kind of village is it? Is it in an amphoe muang or is it within an amphoe municipality (thesaban)? And which newspaper titles are available there? I'd be curious to know.

Regards,

Tettyan

Edited February 7, 2006 by tettyan

[Plus]

Total circulation of Thai newspapers is around 6 mil, I remember this number. I'm too lazy to google in out, or even serach Nation's archives.

[thedude]

if HM really wanted to get rid of the PM, don't you think he would have made Prem present to receive the petition? the 1.40 a.m. delivery to the army general was definitely not the original plan and was a last resort face-saving solution. read between the lines people.

the monarchy has placed importance on the setting up of a democratic constitution. the drafting of the present constitution was chaired by Khun Anand after the 92 coup attempt. it is a balanced and well-drafted document. i don't think HM would want to intervene and reverse so much progress unless the government is really shooting people in the streets.

Any speculation about what the His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej is or is not thinking or any actions He does or does not take is grossly inappropriate and has no place in this discussion.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Thanks for pointing that out SJ.

I have the greatest respect for HM and have no intention to speculate on his thoughts or actions.

I reacted angrily at Sondhi's presumptiousness in invoking HM as part of his weekend political show, and realise i am implicated for the same for observing that Sondhi's actions have failed to draw the response he sought.

More importantly (and perhaps i explained it the wrong way), i was trying to point out what a solemn piece of work the constitution is and how it involved the highest deliberations not so long ago. I observed that it would not be easy to contravene the democratic processes enschrined by it.

Total circulation of Thai newspapers is around 6 mil, I remember this number. I'm too lazy to google in out, or even serach Nation's archives.

You are probably not far off in your estimation Plus.

A friend of mine in the Bangkok Post recently pointed out to my surprise that every copy of the paper goes through something like 6 to 8 pairs of hands, which means that actual circulation is higher. Apparently this is a common phenomenon in developing countries.

Edited February 7, 2006 by thedude

[sriracha john]

Thanks for pointing that out SJ.

I have the greatest respect for HM and have no intention to speculate on his thoughts or actions.

< - Further speculation snipped - >

Sometimes, the shorter response is the better response....

[dan10400]

You are probably not far off in your estimation Plus.

A friend of mine in the Bangkok Post recently pointed out to my surprise that every copy of the paper goes through something like 6 to 8 pairs of hands, which means that actual circulation is higher. Apparently this is a common phenomenon in developing countries.

6-8 pairs of hands on average would be a stretch. that would pretty much infer that 80%

of the population reads the paper on a daily basis. maybe this is a statistic for the bangkok

post? even that is doubtful.

i have to concur with K. tettyan regarding newspaper readership outside of bangkok.

can't even recall seeing anybody selling a newspaper in any of the many villages i have

seen. news is primarily derived from the TV, and that is only when there isn't an

interesting 'drama' on any of the channels for the most part.

that being said, there is awareness of "tax-free taksin" episode in the wifes' village and

it ain't going done so well. however, not sure they are aware of recent protests in

bangkok.

regards,

--dan

[thedude]

You are probably not far off in your estimation Plus.

A friend of mine in the Bangkok Post recently pointed out to my surprise that every copy of the paper goes through something like 6 to 8 pairs of hands, which means that actual circulation is higher. Apparently this is a common phenomenon in developing countries.

6-8 pairs of hands on average would be a stretch. that would pretty much infer that 80%

of the population reads the paper on a daily basis. maybe this is a statistic for the bangkok

post? even that is doubtful.

i have to concur with K. tettyan regarding newspaper readership outside of bangkok.

can't even recall seeing anybody selling a newspaper in any of the many villages i have

seen. news is primarily derived from the TV, and that is only when there isn't an

interesting 'drama' on any of the channels for the most part.

that being said, there is awareness of "tax-free taksin" episode in the wifes' village and

it ain't going done so well. however, not sure they are aware of recent protests in

bangkok.

regards,

--dan

that is the number i was told and like i said, i was surprised. maybe its just for the Bangkok Post which i often see in office reception areas, hotel lobbies, cafes and eateries, and etc. i don't read thai newspapers but i often see them on the back seat of a cab, being passed around in noodle stalls, lying around shop fronts, etc.

i realise also that i read the papers quite often, but i don't actually subscribe to any, and i suppose there are many people like me. suppose on a national level, an average of 3 people read each paper, that would still be 18 million based on your 6 million estimate. the point is, a not insubstantial proportion of the population do read the papers.

[Plus]

Do they read them? I rarely see them going past the front page, and that usually contains only blood and half naked bodies, and sometimes they read headlines.

Newspapers suck up to Taksin anyway - they all need advertising from AIS, CP, and the governement itself.

[tettyan]

You are probably not far off in your estimation Plus.

A friend of mine in the Bangkok Post recently pointed out to my surprise that every copy of the paper goes through something like 6 to 8 pairs of hands, which means that actual circulation is higher. Apparently this is a common phenomenon in developing countries.

6-8 pairs of hands on average would be a stretch. that would pretty much infer that 80%

of the population reads the paper on a daily basis. maybe this is a statistic for the bangkok

post? even that is doubtful.

i have to concur with K. tettyan regarding newspaper readership outside of bangkok.

can't even recall seeing anybody selling a newspaper in any of the many villages i have

seen. news is primarily derived from the TV, and that is only when there isn't an

interesting 'drama' on any of the channels for the most part.

that being said, there is awareness of "tax-free taksin" episode in the wifes' village and

it ain't going done so well. however, not sure they are aware of recent protests in

bangkok.

regards,

--dan

that is the number i was told and like i said, i was surprised. maybe its just for the Bangkok Post which i often see in office reception areas, hotel lobbies, cafes and eateries, and etc. i don't read thai newspapers but i often see them on the back seat of a cab, being passed around in noodle stalls, lying around shop fronts, etc.

i realise also that i read the papers quite often, but i don't actually subscribe to any, and i suppose there are many people like me. suppose on a national level, an average of 3 people read each paper, that would still be 18 million based on your 6 million estimate. the point is, a not insubstantial proportion of the population do read the papers.

It's difficult to determine precise circulation figures (# of copies sold) since newspapers often inflate their circulation figures (to impress advertisers) and aside from The BKK Post, none have their circulation numbers audited.

McCargo in his book written 8 years ago estimated that total circulation of newspapers in Thailand was around 2 million a day. My guess today would be somewhere in the range of 3-4 million. Those who mentioned that the avg newspaper copy is read by 6-8 readers are probably not far off the mark. Many Thais read the paper at the workplace instead of buying their own copies. Many also are exposed to papers while waiting in lounges for appointments or what not. In those villages lucky enough to have public "reading rooms", a single copy can go through many more sets of hands.

Edited February 7, 2006 by tettyan

[sierra01]

I've no idea how many papers are sold or how many people read them, what I do know is that often I have to fight my way past the freeloaders just to buy my copy!

[chownah]

If I get some spare time I'll go see which newspapers are available locally. But in the mean time I'd like to say that if your hypothesis is correct and it is the unavailability of newpapers that is causing Toxin's popularity then all you anti-Toxin people have a simple blueprint for unseating your nemesis....just buy up newspapers and distribute them free to all the villages. If you are right the people will worship you as messengers sent from above and once they see the value in reading these papers filled with the already well known fact that politicians are corrupt they will gladly start buying them since Thai newspapers are really cheap and most children waste more money in a week than the newspapers would cost.....also, once these people see the value and start buying newspapers you will get rich in the newspaper distributing business.....what a deal....enlightening the Thai people, making Thailand into a real democracy, and getting rich all at once..........nice dream but I think the underlying assumption is wrong.

[Jai Dee]

PM Thaksin reiterates no immediate cabinet reshuffle following the resignation of two ministers

Government spokesperson Surapong Suebwonglee (สุรพงษ์ สืบวงศ์ลี) revealed that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has referred to the protest led by media tycoon Sondhi Limthongkul(สนธิ ลิ้มทองกุล) on February the 4th at the Royal Plaza that all parties can expressed their opinion but will have to remain under Democratic laws where the protest has to proceed in peace and without any weapons.

According Dr. Surapong, the premier has assigned Deputy Prime Minister Suchai Charoenratanakul(สุชัย เจริญรัตนกุล) to supervise the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology (ICT), whereas, Deputy Prime Minister Surakiart Sathirathai (สุรเกียรติ์ เสถียรไทย) will be taking care of the Culture Ministry.

The premier has confirmed there will be no cabinet reshuffle as of now and it is scheduled to take place after the next election of House of Representatives.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 Febuary 2006

[tettyan]

If I get some spare time I'll go see which newspapers are available locally. But in the mean time I'd like to say that if your hypothesis is correct and it is the unavailability of newpapers that is causing Toxin's popularity then all you anti-Toxin people have a simple blueprint for unseating your nemesis....just buy up newspapers and distribute them free to all the villages. If you are right the people will worship you as messengers sent from above and once they see the value in reading these papers filled with the already well known fact that politicians are corrupt they will gladly start buying them since Thai newspapers are really cheap and most children waste more money in a week than the newspapers would cost.....also, once these people see the value and start buying newspapers you will get rich in the newspaper distributing business.....what a deal....enlightening the Thai people, making Thailand into a real democracy, and getting rich all at once..........nice dream but I think the underlying assumption is wrong.

Well, my friend's grandfather who lives an hour from CM is always appreciative when his daugter comes in from the city every couple of weeks to drop off old newspapers. Of course, I could go on, but let me just make a final point. I think that as long as the government keeps its virtual monopoly on TV and radio broadcasting, it would be difficult to say that Thailand has a truly "free" press. I mean, what would you say about American democracy if you were given your choice of newspapers, but then the government gives Fox News a monopoly on TV news reportiing?

Edited February 7, 2006 by tettyan

[Jai Dee]

Mr. Yongyuth believes there are supporters behind every protest

Thai Rak Thai party executive member Yongyuth Tiyapairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช) referred to the protests that he has reiterated all the time for the demonstrations to remain under laws and regulations due to criminal justice process.

He added that it’s normal for the demonstrations to take place and the protestors often attack the opposition by relating the matter to corruption practices.

However, Mr. Yongyuth revealed that the most worrying issues are that the protestors are trying to refer to His Majesty the King and religion.

He commented on the verbal used to attack Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, saying they were considered to be impolite and has urged every party to be rational.

Mr. Yongyuth also says that every party needs to be prepared for the protest since there are sponsors for food and vehicle for people from other provinces to join the protest.

Finally, he has asked all parties that will join the protest to respect the laws and regulations and not to set up roadblocks and hold the demonstration at unsuitable venue.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 07 Febuary 2006