Help With Financial Side For A Spouse Visa To England

[AngryParent]

@VisaPLUS OK, I have now looked into your post with a magnifying glass. I was a bit enthusiastic with the last post.

Unfortunately, this JR issue is not at the stage to warrant what I had hoped for in my previous post.

However, there is an issue here:

Under 1: 1 Declare that appendix FM and HC 194 of the immigration rules are not sufficient to satisfy the requirements of article 8 ECHR.

This is at an early stage where the initial request is to enable what I would call "opening the door". Much potential.

Under 2: It does have effect under primary legislastion - and this will fail.

Under 3: Under this, the government just needs to give a declartion of incompatiblity under XYZ grounds. Which they did. Let's see if this is discounted.

[KarenBlackwell]

Nothing stopping him from applying now; but he would need to convince the ECO that he has a valid reason for needing to visit the UK again so soon after a 5 month visit. As his reason is to be with you while you are working, I doubt this would be acceptable.

He was in the UK for 5 months and will presumably want to spend the full 6 months next time. So to avoid possibly falling foul of the 'no more than 6 months out of any 12' convention I'd suggest 6 months after he left the UK, i.e. 1st March 2013. He can submit his application up to 3 months before this and ask for the visa to start on 1st March.

Remember that if he does apply earlier than this and the ECO does grant him a visa, for example because he says he only wants to stay a month or less, that he could still be refused entry when he arrives in the UK if immigration feel that, on the balance of probabilities, he will be spending more than 6 months out of 12 in the UK as a visitor.

7 by 7 could you give me a link on where it says i can apply 3 months earlier,,,for a visit visa,,thankyou

[7by7]

Guide to visa processing times

You can apply for your visa within three months of your intended date of travel. We are only able to post-date visas by a maximum of three months from the date of the decision on your visa application. You can enter the UK anytime after your visa issue date but not before.

Note that the visa issue date is the date it starts from, not the date it is issued. So if he asks for it to be postdated and his visa is issued before the requested date, he wont be able to use it until the date he asked for.

[chris9111]

Guide to visa processing times

You can apply for your visa within three months of your intended date of travel. We are only able to post-date visas by a maximum of three months from the date of the decision on your visa application. You can enter the UK anytime after your visa issue date but not before.

Note that the visa issue date is the date it starts from, not the date it is issued. So if he asks for it to be postdated and his visa is issued before the requested date, he wont be able to use it until the date he asked for.

more advise, if i put in my explanation letter all the reasons why i want him to come with me in jan, but then say i understand you like it to be 6 months for each visit so i,ll leave it up to you,, do oyu think this is good or do they want specific

[7by7]

I think it very odd that in the topic you started you ask about extending your wife's visa; but in the post above you say 'him.'

You also say above that you want 'him' to come with you in Jan, but in that other topic you say that you and your wife are in the UK now.

[chris9111]

I think it very odd that in the topic you started you ask about extending your wife's visa; but in the post above you say 'him.'

You also say above that you want 'him' to come with you in Jan, but in that other topic you say that you and your wife are in the UK now.

sorry different story my son has put his helps on here but not logged out of mine

[7by7]

update on myself is im waiting in thailand until i,ve submitted another visitor visa,

So your son is in the UK, you are in Thailand but you are using the same computer?

[chris9111]

update on myself is im waiting in thailand until i,ve submitted another visitor visa,

So your son is in the UK, you are in Thailand but you are using the same computer?

no lol he dosnet no what to say so were commuting

[hotwinter]

Firstly 7x7's comment - I don't see anywhere that it is the net figure that counts in rental income. Looking at it logically, that would have to apply to the 18,600 income requirement too, and only the gross figure is required to qualify.

Poor terminology on my part, I meant the profit made on the rental income, i.e. rent recieved minus the mortgage payments.

Although it doesn't say this in the IDIs, it would make sense. Income from self employment is based on taxable income, i.e. profit, and deductions and allowances which are not taxed are not counted; so income from property should be treated the same, should it not?.

A moot point anyway, Karen, as even if the whole rent is counted it is not enough, unless, as VisasPlus said before, your lowest monthly income during the 6 months prior to the application, earned, from this rent and from any other source, multiplied by 12 comes to at least £18600.

I agree that it this new requirement is poorly thought out and unfair to people in your position; but I don't make the rules; Parliament does.

do they do this with all applications? my wages are very up and down, one month i only earnt 1200 but another i earn about 4000. im at about 12-13000 for the 5 months i just worked. but they will take my lowest month and work it out from there? thats seriously messed up!

i was intending to apply next month :/

[VisasPlus]

Firstly 7x7's comment - I don't see anywhere that it is the net figure that counts in rental income. Looking at it logically, that would have to apply to the 18,600 income requirement too, and only the gross figure is required to qualify.

Poor terminology on my part, I meant the profit made on the rental income, i.e. rent recieved minus the mortgage payments.

Although it doesn't say this in the IDIs, it would make sense. Income from self employment is based on taxable income, i.e. profit, and deductions and allowances which are not taxed are not counted; so income from property should be treated the same, should it not?.

A moot point anyway, Karen, as even if the whole rent is counted it is not enough, unless, as VisasPlus said before, your lowest monthly income during the 6 months prior to the application, earned, from this rent and from any other source, multiplied by 12 comes to at least £18600.

I agree that it this new requirement is poorly thought out and unfair to people in your position; but I don't make the rules; Parliament does.

do they do this with all applications? my wages are very up and down, one month i only earnt 1200 but another i earn about 4000. im at about 12-13000 for the 5 months i just worked. but they will take my lowest month and work it out from there? thats seriously messed up!

i was intending to apply next month :/

If you have been with the same employer for at least 6 months, then they will take the lowest salary ( from your 6 months of wage slips) earned in the last 6 months, and multiply it by 12. If that calculation doesn't reach 18,600 then you will not meet the requirement. If you earned 1,200 GBP gross in one of the last 6 months, then your "annual gross salary" will be 14,400 GBP, and you will not qualify. If the 1,200 is a net figure, then your gross annual salary will be higher. They only talk about gross salary, not net.

[hotwinter]

Firstly 7x7's comment - I don't see anywhere that it is the net figure that counts in rental income. Looking at it logically, that would have to apply to the 18,600 income requirement too, and only the gross figure is required to qualify.

Poor terminology on my part, I meant the profit made on the rental income, i.e. rent recieved minus the mortgage payments.

Although it doesn't say this in the IDIs, it would make sense. Income from self employment is based on taxable income, i.e. profit, and deductions and allowances which are not taxed are not counted; so income from property should be treated the same, should it not?.

A moot point anyway, Karen, as even if the whole rent is counted it is not enough, unless, as VisasPlus said before, your lowest monthly income during the 6 months prior to the application, earned, from this rent and from any other source, multiplied by 12 comes to at least £18600.

I agree that it this new requirement is poorly thought out and unfair to people in your position; but I don't make the rules; Parliament does.

do they do this with all applications? my wages are very up and down, one month i only earnt 1200 but another i earn about 4000. im at about 12-13000 for the 5 months i just worked. but they will take my lowest month and work it out from there? thats seriously messed up!

i was intending to apply next month :/

If you have been with the same employer for at least 6 months, then they will take the lowest salary ( from your 6 months of wage slips) earned in the last 6 months, and multiply it by 12. If that calculation doesn't reach 18,600 then you will not meet the requirement. If you earned 1,200 GBP gross in one of the last 6 months, then your "annual gross salary" will be 14,400 GBP, and you will not qualify. If the 1,200 is a net figure, then your gross annual salary will be higher. They only talk about gross salary, not net.

thats madness, across the year i earn well over 18600 but atleast 2 months of the year (may and december) i earn under the required amount making it impossible for me to ever get my wife a settlement visa!

what a completely stupid way to work in someones income! will they not look at it at different way if i explain that i have two slack months in the year?

[7by7]

I'm afraid that in this instance 'rules are rules' as under the new requirement all discretion on the part of the ECO has been removed; they have no choice.

[hotwinter]

but it says i have to earn a annual income of 18600, not a minimum of £XXXX per month. surely they are going against the requirements being set?

monthly income is not annual income so how can they work it out like that? like i say that is not annual income as they state is required. is there a number for the UKBA i can ring to ask them about this?

[VisasPlus]

hotwinter, all good questions. But, first, you do seem to have 6 months pf the required salary - June to November - so you can meet the requirement.

On the question of whether "they" will look a it a different way, especially if your annual income shows more than the required 18,600, then I agree that they should. I have even asked UKBA in Bangkok questions along similar lines. These are some of the responses I have had :

"It will be the Entry Clearance Officer’s call to decide whether the documents submitted meet the requirements of the immigration rules"

"Applicants are required to evidence that they meet the immigration rules. Whether or not you consider them to be fair the rules and guidance are available on the UK Border Agency website and it will be down to the applicant (along with their agent if they choose to use one) to decide whether they can meet these requirements before submitting their applications."

"............................... the Immigration rules and guidance are set in the UK and whilst we can feed back any difficulties applicants are experiencing in interpreting the requirements, we have a responsibility to ensure that visas are only issued to applicants who can evidence that they meet the rules."

I think the UKBA's stance is pretty clear ? You are welcome to make an application, but the cost is 826 GBP, which is a lot to lose if the application is refused. I have asked UKBA in Bangkok if they are willing to hold a meeting to discuss the problems of these new requirements, but they have declined to do so. They seem to have no interest in the problems being experienced by applicants and sponsors, and this is another response from them :

"Staff at VFS and the UK Border Agency are unable to provide advice on individual cases."

Compare this to the service provided by,say, the Australian Embassy, where applicants and sponsors can attend open meetings one afternoon a week to discuss any problems with their settlement application with a visa officer. It seems obvious where the UKBA's interests lay, and it's not with settlement visa applicants.

Edited November 11, 2012 by VisasPlus

[hotwinter]

so they say you have to meet the requirements, but then they arent actually telling you the requirements (worked out monthly). nowhere on the UKBA website or in the guide to supporting documents does it state that the income will be worked out on a monthly basis. it says annual in every single sentence, box or however they have chosen to show it.

so they arent showing people the real rules and expecting them to meet them?

you might be right about me hitting the requirements with june to november, i was basing mine on 26 weeks wage slips. i will have to go threw them all and work it out. i'll be fine for this month, i earn 3 quarters the required amount per month in last week! june might be a bit itght but i wil take a look

whole thing is madness

[VisasPlus]

The requirements are actually published. Here:

Appendix FM Specified Evidence Sept 2012.docx

[hotwinter]

thanks for the document, i read it and yes im screwed. ive looked at my last 5 month and one of the months lands just under and so i cant meet the requirements based on how they work them out.

i cant move to thailand, she cant move here! :/ relationship is over. even tho i earn way more than needed! what a joke

[VisasPlus]

thanks for the document, i read it and yes im screwed. ive looked at my last 5 month and one of the months lands just under and so i cant meet the requirements based on how they work them out.

i cant move to thailand, she cant move here! :/ relationship is over. even tho i earn way more than needed! what a joke

Obviously we don't know your salary arrangements, but why can't you earn the required salary for the full 6 months ? Why are two months of every year below the threshold ?

If you are caught in this trap, then you should bring it to the attention of your MP. If people don't question or complain, then nothing will change.

[hotwinter]

thanks for the document, i read it and yes im screwed. ive looked at my last 5 month and one of the months lands just under and so i cant meet the requirements based on how they work them out.

i cant move to thailand, she cant move here! :/ relationship is over. even tho i earn way more than needed! what a joke

Obviously we don't know your salary arrangements, but why can't you earn the required salary for the full 6 months ? Why are two months of every year below the threshold ?

If you are caught in this trap, then you should bring it to the attention of your MP. If people don't question or complain, then nothing will change.

i work in on a order basis. i can go to work one day and earn £200 i can go the next and there will be nothin, so they give me a days pay at minimum wage for hanging around for an hour in the morning.

i dont have a set wage, i can earn anywhere from £6.19 to £50 an hour

Edited November 11, 2012 by hotwinter

[7by7]

If you are caught in this trap, then you should bring it to the attention of your MP. If people don't question or complain, then nothing will change.

Indeed.

Remember, that whilst the rules were written by the UKBA, they did so on the instruction of the government and to meet the government's requirements. The rules were then approved by Parliament before coming into force.

Only Parliament can change them.

I know exactly how you feel, hotwinter. The hours I work, and therefore my income, depends on the requirements of my boss's clients. The nature of our work means that during the school holidays, summer holidays in particular, we have very little work. I do have a guaranteed minimum income, but if I had to rely on that then I, too, would not meet the requirement and were these rules in place when my wife applied, she would not be here now.

[hotwinter]

the month in question is under by roughly £20 :/

i have no idea how to bring this to the attention of a MP? never been in a situation when ive needed to!

[7by7]

The first step would be to write to him/her.

Outline your situation

Explain how despite you earning well in excess of the required amount over a 12 month period, the way the rules require income be calculated means you'll never meet the requirement. Refer to the Appendix FM linked to by VisasPlus above.

Ask for his/her advice on how to proceed.

See Contacting your MP.

This may have no effect; remember MP's cannot instruct the UKBA to break the rules. But if no one complains about the injustice of this new system, nothing will be done.

[VisasPlus]

the month in question is under by roughly £20 :/

i have no idea how to bring this to the attention of a MP? never been in a situation when ive needed to!

If you have savings then you might be able to meet the requirement with a combination of savings and your income ( if the gross annual income is less than 18,600 GBP). If you tell me what your gross annual income is ( based on the last 6 months wage slips ie. 12 times the lowest monthly wage) I will tell you how much you need to have held in savings for the past 6 months.

To bring it to the attention of your MP you only have to write to him.

[hotwinter]

the month in question is under by roughly £20 :/

i have no idea how to bring this to the attention of a MP? never been in a situation when ive needed to!

If you have savings then you might be able to meet the requirement with a combination of savings and your income ( if the gross annual income is less than 18,600 GBP). If you tell me what your gross annual income is ( based on the last 6 months wage slips ie. 12 times the lowest monthly wage) I will tell you how much you need to have held in savings for the past 6 months.

To bring it to the attention of your MP you only have to write to him.

the lowest is £1405 in july but i get 8% taken out for a savings account, this doesnt show up on my wage slips. going to ask the accoutant do my wage slips showing i get 8% taken out making it £1527.

so its either going to be £16860 (without the 8%) or £18324 with the 8%

if i wait till the end of jan and make sure the months meet the requirements, they wouldnt need to know about july?

[VisasPlus]

the month in question is under by roughly £20 :/

i have no idea how to bring this to the attention of a MP? never been in a situation when ive needed to!

If you have savings then you might be able to meet the requirement with a combination of savings and your income ( if the gross annual income is less than 18,600 GBP). If you tell me what your gross annual income is ( based on the last 6 months wage slips ie. 12 times the lowest monthly wage) I will tell you how much you need to have held in savings for the past 6 months.

To bring it to the attention of your MP you only have to write to him.

the lowest is £1405 in july but i get 8% taken out for a savings account, this doesnt show up on my wage slips. going to ask the accoutant do my wage slips showing i get 8% taken out making it £1527.

so its either going to be £16860 (without the 8%) or £18324 with the 8%

if i wait till the end of jan and make sure the months meet the requirements, they wouldnt need to know about july?

For an income of 16,860 you need 20,350 in savings.

For an income of 18,324 you need savings of 16,690

The savings must have been in your bank, or under your control in a financial institution for 6 months.

[hotwinter]

i dont have saving like that in the bank sadly.

im at a loss, i will contact a MP on the issue but thisisnt going to make no difference for me right now. unless i magic up a high paid job tomorrow, it looks like im gonna have to part ways with the misses for good.

goverment has me over good and proper

[7by7]

it looks like im gonna have to part ways with the misses for good.

Bit extreme, isn't it?

Whilst a long distance relationship, with you visiting her when you can and vice versa, isn't ideal; it's better than ending the relationship, surely?

Particularly as at some time in the not so distant future you may find that your earnings over the preceding 6 months are enough to satisfy the requirement.

[hotwinter]

yer that was me getting frustrated! been years of travelling back and forth, we was hoping not to do it anymore

im going to talk to the accountant and my boss tomorrow, im hoping he can put me on a fixed income until i have the 6 months wage slips i need. fingers crossed anyway, 99% of the time my boss is useless!

[englishinsiam]

thanks for the document, i read it and yes im screwed. ive looked at my last 5 month and one of the months lands just under and so i cant meet the requirements based on how they work them out.

i cant move to thailand, she cant move here! :/ relationship is over. even tho i earn way more than needed! what a joke

Obviously we don't know your salary arrangements, but why can't you earn the required salary for the full 6 months ? Why are two months of every year below the threshold ?

If you are caught in this trap, then you should bring it to the attention of your MP. If people don't question or complain, then nothing will change.

i work in on a order basis. i can go to work one day and earn £200 i can go the next and there will be nothin, so they give me a days pay at minimum wage for hanging around for an hour in the morning.

i dont have a set wage, i can earn anywhere from £6.19 to £50 an hour

So the government set the minimum wage as something you can live on but not allow you to use that for your spouse thus increasing the earning potential.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[manxninja]

wow i didnt know the visa rules have changed so much in seven years.

I didnt even have a job when i got my wifes settlement visa and had 3.5k in the bank.

Even then it went straight through in amonth.

Times change i feel the pain i remember the wait inbetwee applying and getting the visa.

Good luck to all those going through it , tbh i wouldnt fancy doing it now.