Thai Airways International Unfazed By Airbus A380-800 High Costs

[webfact]

THAI unfazed by superjumbo's high costs

Achara Pongvutitham

The Nation

Hong Kong

BANGKOK: -- Despite its quieter takeoffs and landings, higher passenger capacity, lower carbon-dioxide emissions and other advantages over other aircraft, Thai Airways International accepts that its new Airbus A380-800, the largest plane in its fleet, has higher maintenance costs.

For example, a single wheel costs Bt3 million. The company changed two wheels a few weeks ago after 100 flights. Maintaining the digital operating system is also expensive.

However, these expenses will be compensated for by the superjumbo's ability to carry more passengers than any other aircraft, THAI believes.

Captain Peerasak Nopananchai, chief pilot of the A380, said that as it is the largest airliner in the world, costs for parts and services are also higher. In addition, its operating system ensures safety during takeoff, landing and flying.

"It is impossible to have an unmanned plane for commercial flight, as security is still the most important, but the number of pilots needed to control it could be reduced in the future," Peerasak said.

He said the greater size of the aircraft obliged the company to increase the size of the cabin crew and related factors. The number of flight attendants has been increased to 24 to ensure services on the A380-800, compared with 18 attendants on the Boeing 747-400.

The company's first A380-800 had its first commercial flight on October 6 to Hong Kong and Singapore. Its maximum capacity is 507 passengers, compared with 389 for the Boeing 747-400.

With such a large passenger capacity, it may create longer queues than normal at immigration counters after landing. But the upside is higher efficiency and lower impact on the environment per passenger.

Nonthakorn Trakulpa, THAI general manager for Hong Kong and Macau, said the airline's cabin factor reached 85 per cent in October but would drop to 73 per cent this month and 66 per cent next month, according to bookings. This is because passengers make decisions two weeks prior booking ticket so that the capacity rate rises closer to the date of takeoff.

The company operates five return flights per day on the Bangkok-Hong Kong route. The A380's high passenger capacity has resulted in higher costs for cleaning between flights because it is restricted to one hour in the parking bay in Hong Kong. If it is parked longer, the airline is hit with an extra charge.

"We are considering ways to reduce costs and cope with the time restriction, as we have to make a decision whether to cease using the A380 on this flight or extend it to April, when passenger numbers rise during the long holiday," Nonthakorn said. THAI also plans to use the superjumbo to service other destinations, she added.

The airline has purchased six A380-800s. The second aircraft will arrive in Thailand this month, the third in December, the fourth in February, the fifth next October and the final one in November next year. The superjumbo fleet will be operated on intercontinental routes.

Upon delivery of the second aircraft, the two A380s will operate on the Bangkok-Frankfurt and Bangkok-Hong Kong routes approximately through to the middle of next month. The third aircraft will be utilised on flights to and from Narita. The fourth is expected to operate between Bangkok and Paris.

Peerasak said the company had to prepare 120 pilots and co-pilots to serve the new superjumbo fleet. They are trained for one year by Airbus in Toulouse, France, and will be specially licensed to fly a digitally equipped aircraft. They will have to be audited after flying for 10 sectors.

-- The Nation 2012-11-05

[Thai at Heart]

Glad to see they did their homework before they bought it.

Never particularly reassuring to hear an airline moaning about maintenance.

[Ricardo]

But maintaining the existing fleet of elderly aircraft, and upgrading the cabins to modern-era standards, costs even more doesn't it ? And having been in-service with other airlines for some years now, the A380's running-costs should be well-known, and fully-expected.

Thai Airways should be focused on keeping all its fleet in-the-air, and earning revenue, no plane makes a profit standing on the ground so utlilisation is key, then look at cutting overheads where it doesn't degrade the passenger-experience, finally on eliminating all those pesky free-tickets ... Oops, just spotted the flaw in my strategy.

[Payboy]

"It is impossible to have an unmanned plane for commercial flight, as security is still the most important, but the number of pilots needed to control it could be reduced in the future," Peerasak said.

At least the managed to do that with the inflight service ages ago.

[WilliaminBKK]

The costs are high now because they are on low yield short hop training flights, hurry up and get them on the long run high yield routes to FRA/CDG/SYD & hopefully LHR. The article doesn't mention fuel savings a 747 & A380 both consume almost 1000 barrels of fuel to London the obvious benefit for the A380 is long haul.

[Dork]

The whole article is incoherent and inaccurate. Ignore it.

[lomatopo]

The costs are high now because they are on low yield short hop training flights, hurry up and get them on the long run high yield routes to FRA/CDG/SYD & hopefully LHR. The article doesn't mention fuel savings a 747 & A380 both consume almost 1000 barrels of fuel to London the obvious benefit for the A380 is long haul.

You need two (2) aircraft to offer daily service for one of those city-pairs - not sure about the timings on SYD/OZ routes. TG currently have but one, I think the idea is to both showcase the new bird on regional, daily-turn sectors, and shake it out, so to speak.

The whole article is incoherent and inaccurate. Ignore it.

Agreed.

[asiawatcher]

I recall the release of 767's was hailed as the best most fuel efficient aircraft at the time and in some instances, still is. Twin engine and the plane is lauded at being able to fly on one engine in the event of emergencies. I think working on capital costs and maintenance costs, amortised over time and against projected occupancy, most accountants would agree, the 380's may not be any good for a lot they have claimed to be. Thai thinks multiple short haul is the way to go (if the aircraft is full) which may well work but long haul, the amount of fuel required to be carried is argued at making the 380's expensive to run (additional weight). Mix that with ever increasing bad service, late departures and arrivals and pricing that makes Thai non-competitive, I would think it all adds up to a recipe for another financial disaster.

[whybother]

Thai is flying to Hong Kong and apparently Singapore for bedding down/training purposes. When they get their second plane, they will drop Hong Kong & Singapore and fly to Frankfurt. Later they will fly to Tokyo, Paris, Osaka and Sydney and then maybe to London.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/thai-s-airbus-a380-routes-hk-singapore-frankfurt-tokyo-osaka-paris-sydney-london

[chiang mai]

Years ago when China switched from maintaining a mostly Russian fleet of planes they purchased a number of Boeings along with a maintenance contract. After some time they decided that the maintenance contract was too expensive and anyway, they'd learned how to copy most of the replacements parts! I think it took about three years and several spectacular crashes before the maintenace contract was reinstated. I like to think it's impossible that any other government could possibly go down that same route.

[OzMick]

Not knowing the difference between a tyre and a wheel does wonders for one's credibility (assuming the aircraft wasn't sold with faulty wheels!)

Given that, I take it that k. Achara is repeating a press handout, and it should be read with that in mind.

[dddave]

I flew it to Biz class to HKG last week...nice but nothing special really. Once you're inside it's just like any other plane. The main inconvenience was the departure area was overcrowded before boarding but there seemed to be no tidal wave at HKG immigration.

[Dork]

Thai is flying to Hong Kong and apparently Singapore for bedding down/training purposes. When they get their second plane, they will drop Hong Kong & Singapore and fly to Frankfurt. Later they will fly to Tokyo, Paris, Osaka and Sydney and then maybe to London.

http://www.ausbt.com...s-sydney-london

As Lomatopo said, one aircraft is not enough for a daily European service. And two is too many so there will always be some regional daytime flights like HKG or SIN. Just the same as the 747/777 fleet presently.

I think you are right about training too but it's not the primary reason. There is still an Airbus pilot in the cockpit of every TG 380 flight.

[noitom]

The article is preposterous.

[whybother]

Thai is flying to Hong Kong and apparently Singapore for bedding down/training purposes. When they get their second plane, they will drop Hong Kong & Singapore and fly to Frankfurt. Later they will fly to Tokyo, Paris, Osaka and Sydney and then maybe to London.

http://www.ausbt.com...s-sydney-london

As Lomatopo said, one aircraft is not enough for a daily European service. And two is too many so there will always be some regional daytime flights like HKG or SIN. Just the same as the 747/777 fleet presently.

I think you are right about training too but it's not the primary reason. There is still an Airbus pilot in the cockpit of every TG 380 flight.

According to the schedules and several articles, the training is the main reason, along with the fact that they need two planes to fly daily to Frankfurt. The schedules say that Thai are going back to smaller planes for HK and Singapore. The Narita and Osaka legs will probably be used for the shorter fill in slots.

[Bagwan]

There ae so many holes in this article that I don't know where to start with some very pertinenent questions that I would like to have answered. So I won't.

[Fozfromoz]

Much ado about nothing really.

Servicing a BMW costs more than a Vigo. Bloke with the BMW knows that when he buys it.

Of course costs to operate an aircraft this size are more than a smaller one. This would have been factored in long ago, prior to commitment to purchase. Airlines don't go and buy something like this because it looks nice.

There would be all of the analysis factored in to keep it flying, break even points per flight, including maintenance, continual training of flight, engineering and ground handling crews, all the way to ticketing.

The aircraft is being shaken down, and being exposed to the market, and yes training for the pilots and cabin crews,so that they have the sufficient qualified people to handle the impending future introductions into service.

[Dork]

Mix that with ever increasing bad service, late departures and arrivals and pricing that makes Thai non-competitive, I would think it all adds up to a recipe for another financial disaster.

Certainly Thai Airways has some issues but why do these same urban legends keep coming up.

According to Flightstats statistics on Asian carriers, in 2012 TG came 9th out of 38 in on time performance. Out of the national carriers, only Japan Airlines beat them. See http://www.flightsta...formance-Report

Financial disasters? TG has lost money in one out of close to 50 years. How many national carriers compare favourably to that?

As for bad service, I think it would be fair to say that it has deteriorated from it's glory days and won't compare well against say CX or SQ but they are arguably the best in the world. Compared with practically any American or European carrier it will still win hands down.

[geriatrickid]

I flew it to Biz class to HKG last week...nice but nothing special really. Once you're inside it's just like any other plane. The main inconvenience was the departure area was overcrowded before boarding but there seemed to be no tidal wave at HKG immigration.

I would not expect there to be any problems in HKG. It is one of the world's top rated airports for a reason: One of them is teamwork. Immigration & Customs have planning meetings with the airlines so that they can schedule the right number of personnel to be on hand when a few jumbos land within minutes of each other. It seems to be a different approach in Bangkok, where the AoT and Immigration do not appear to read the schedules of the airlines.

[Dork]

Thai is flying to Hong Kong and apparently Singapore for bedding down/training purposes. When they get their second plane, they will drop Hong Kong & Singapore and fly to Frankfurt. Later they will fly to Tokyo, Paris, Osaka and Sydney and then maybe to London.

http://www.ausbt.com...s-sydney-london

As Lomatopo said, one aircraft is not enough for a daily European service. And two is too many so there will always be some regional daytime flights like HKG or SIN. Just the same as the 747/777 fleet presently.

I think you are right about training too but it's not the primary reason. There is still an Airbus pilot in the cockpit of every TG 380 flight.

According to the schedules and several articles, the training is the main reason, along with the fact that they need two planes to fly daily to Frankfurt. The schedules say that Thai are going back to smaller planes for HK and Singapore. The Narita and Osaka legs will probably be used for the shorter fill in slots.

Well you can argue which is the main reason but since one aircraft makes it impossible to offer a daily service then it is a mute point.

[bigbamboo]

THAI will do what they always do when they get into a financial pickle.

Raise their fares.

[Fozfromoz]

"It is impossible to have an unmanned plane for commercial flight, as security is still the most important, but the number of pilots needed to control it could be reduced in the future," Peerasak said.

I hear the next generation aircraft, will have a crew of 1 pilot, and 1 dog, who's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything.

Apologies to those pilots here, just an attempt at daily humour :-)

[lomatopo]

The challenge is always to maintain loads, but you cannot give up slots. So, even with two dailies you can't consolidate those to a single flight, and with three or more dailies you cannot give up the slot. Then you have to worry about connections. So, ultimately, you have to wait for demand to catch up with supply, or retire older aircraft assuming operating characteristics are equal/better with the new birds.

I'm not that familiar with TGs routes but maybe they'll consolidate the two red-eyes BKK-NRT first? Or use the 380 on seasonally impacted sectors.

[Dork]

Thai is flying to Hong Kong and apparently Singapore for bedding down/training purposes. When they get their second plane, they will drop Hong Kong & Singapore and fly to Frankfurt. Later they will fly to Tokyo, Paris, Osaka and Sydney and then maybe to London.

http://www.ausbt.com...s-sydney-london

As Lomatopo said, one aircraft is not enough for a daily European service. And two is too many so there will always be some regional daytime flights like HKG or SIN. Just the same as the 747/777 fleet presently.

I think you are right about training too but it's not the primary reason. There is still an Airbus pilot in the cockpit of every TG 380 flight.

Sorry, meant to say "pilot from EADS" the manufacturer.

[ttnice30]

I flew it to Biz class to HKG last week...nice but nothing special really. Once you're inside it's just like any other plane. The main inconvenience was the departure area was overcrowded before boarding but there seemed to be no tidal wave at HKG immigration.

Absolutely. I rather fly Emirates A380 to HKG even though it's only one flight a day.

[pbeieio]

Why do they operate them on such a short route??

The plane is operated by other airlines on "long haul" flights eg. London-Singapore-Sydney and reverse.

[Hunter88]

Thai airways big problem has always been too many different types of aircraft. Resulting in additional pilot training costs and maintenance.

The result is that Thai charges higher fares than the competition. If not subsidized by the Thai government, Thai would be out of business.

[asiawatcher]

Mix that with ever increasing bad service, late departures and arrivals and pricing that makes Thai non-competitive, I would think it all adds up to a recipe for another financial disaster.

Certainly Thai Airways has some issues but why do these same urban legends keep coming up.

According to Flightstats statistics on Asian carriers, in 2012 TG came 9th out of 38 in on time performance. Out of the national carriers, only Japan Airlines beat them. See http://www.flightsta...formance-Report

Financial disasters? TG has lost money in one out of close to 50 years. How many national carriers compare favourably to that?

As for bad service, I think it would be fair to say that it has deteriorated from it's glory days and won't compare well against say CX or SQ but they are arguably the best in the world. Compared with practically any American or European carrier it will still win hands down.

Beg to differ - 2008 they lost 21+ billion, 2011 they lost 10+ billion, and 2011 they also had a single loss factor due to their mail carriers at 2.1 billion - since been changed. http://buswk.co/TtJZ0h

Bad service is a matter of perception from everything to do with check in to arrival. CX I find worse than Thai. But correct, compared to US airlines (shockers) it would be better.

Similarly Flight Stats data is quite often inaccurate if you compare it to actual. I do my own assessments but I also use flight stats when tracking clients arrivals.

Edited November 5, 2012 by asiawatcher

[chainarong]

I don't get the impression that anyone at Thai are moaning about anything , the questions were asked, the reply given, costs are all apart of the business, they know that, they are not dumb, matter of fact as far as airlines go, they're right up there with the best of them, That's my view , plenty will disagree ,it's called democracy.

[cosmont]

But maintaining the existing fleet of elderly aircraft, and upgrading the cabins to modern-era standards, costs even more doesn't it ? And having been in-service with other airlines for some years now, the A380's running-costs should be well-known, and fully-expected.

Thai Airways should be focused on keeping all its fleet in-the-air, and earning revenue, no plane makes a profit standing on the ground so utlilisation is key, then look at cutting overheads where it doesn't degrade the passenger-experience, finally on eliminating all those pesky free-tickets ... Oops, just spotted the flaw in my strategy.

BKK - Hong Kong flight is not suitable for A380, they are just training the pilots on a short flight I guess.

This Aircraft is mainly use for intercontinental main routes like Europe, Australia,USA by Japan to bring a lot of tourists.

I guess the maintenance cost on a old 747-400 and fuel is quite more expensive than an A380 and who still want to fly on this old aircraft ? not me at all.