Talk Of Joining International Criminal Court Won't Affect 2010 Probes: Thailand

[webfact]

Talk of joining ICC 'won't affect 2010 probes'

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Ongoing inquiries into deaths during the 2010 red-shirt protests by the National Anti-Corruption Commission would not be affected if the government decided to join the International Criminal Court (ICC), commissioner Wicha Mahakun said yesterday.

The ICC has authority on crimes against humanity or genocide, but the anti-graft body is examining if there was any official misconduct in the suppression of the red-shirt protests, Wicha said. "These are different issues and we will continue our work over the case," he said.

Asked if it was suitable for Thailand to be a member of the ICC and allow it jurisdiction over such matters, Wicha said opinions should be sought from all parties.

Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul met with ICC officials last Thursday to assess if world court, based in The Hague, may have jurisdiction to look into or rule on deaths during the 2010 protests in Bangkok, as well as the Thaksin Shinawatra government's "War on Drugs" in 2003. Surapong said he would hold a press conference on the matter tomorrow. However, he thought the 2,500 or so deaths during Thaksin's "War on Drugs" would not qualify for ICC jurisdiction.

The foreign minister said the ICC accepts cases involving genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes. It will also consider crimes of aggression from 2017.

Some 121 states have joined the court, but Thai governments have declined previous approaches to join. The ICC has reviewed seven matters in Africa since it opened in 2002, but never a case in Asia.

In a related move, Pol Major Sa-ngiam Samranrat, a "red" leader in Chumpon, submitted a letter to the Speaker calling for an inquiry into claims by red-shirt chairperson Thida Thavornseth and husband Pheu Thai MP Weng Tojirakarn that the ICC would consider 98 deaths in mid-2010. He accused Thida and Weng of giving reds false hope as the case could not be forwarded to the ICC.

-- The Nation 2012-11-06

[Skywalker69]

. However, he thought the 2,500 or so deaths during Thaksin's "War on Drugs" would not qualify for ICC jurisdiction.

<deleted>?????

[otherstuff1957]

Apparently non-members of the ICC can ask them to look into specific incidents. Obviously, the current government isn't going to ask them to look into anything that would embarrass Thaksin.

Remember, one of Thaksin's lawyers was that Dutch fellow who specialized in genocide & was involved in the Rwanda trials. He must think that they can divert the ICC's Judges away from any scrutiny of the Black Shirts.

[asiawatcher]

Maybe if the Govt DID join, they could get Thaksin committed for his crimes including the 2,500 deaths or at worse, have him charged and extradited, but we already know bringing him here will result in civil war. Oh what short selective memories Thai's have...

[patjem]

Looking into "98 deaths in 2010"..... let's think now, for certain the blame for a good %age of them could be laid against red shirts/ black shirts. Shooting oneself in the foot.

[bunuel]

I have covered the ICC in Africa, where there have been several major cases against human rights violators in recent years, and there seem to be some misconceptions in this thread about how the ICC works. First of all, a country must be a signatory to the ICC convention. If the country is not a signatory, the ICC will not investigate cases in that country. However, once a country is a signatory, the ICC reserves the right to pursue whatever legal actions the ICZc deems appropriate, regardless of political fall out. There is no such thing as ICC justice on demand, as the Thai Foreign Minister implies here. Joining the ICC opens the door for international investigation and potential international prosecutions which may be both embarassing and unpleasant. The recent ICC investigations into the electoral violence in Kenya a few years ago are a good example.. Government ministers and other high-ranking officials were indicted, and asked to appear in The Hague before the ICC Tribunal, and this case remains unresolved. Sudan's President Bashir Al Assad is an ICC indicted war criminal who has refused to appear in the Hague, and is now the target of an international arrest warrant which greatly limits his travels. Contrary to popular myth, the ICC is completely independent of the Security Council and the UN, and the Chief Prosecutor, now Fatima Bensouda from the Gambia, officially operates free from any political interference. A note: ICC investigations are notoriously slow and arduous,so they tend to focus on the big fish!

[Pimay1]

now Fatima Bensouda from the Gambia, officially operates free from any political interference

Interesting to say the least. When I was in Afghanistan my guard dog was named Fatima. She could smell a Taliban a mile away.

[Buchholz]

I have covered the ICC in Africa, where there have been several major cases against human rights violators in recent years, and there seem to be some misconceptions in this thread about how the ICC works. First of all, a country must be a signatory to the ICC convention. If the country is not a signatory, the ICC will not investigate cases in that country. However, once a country is a signatory, the ICC reserves the right to pursue whatever legal actions the ICC deems appropriate, regardless of political fall out. There is no such thing as ICC justice on demand, as the Thai Foreign Minister implies here.

The Cousin Foreign Minister being wrong about a foreign ministry issue is not surprising in the least.

Prior to his appointment to his cousin's Cabinet, he had zero experience in the vocation of which he was placed in charge.

His only successful action in over a year at the helm was an illegal one, re-issuing a new passport to his other cousin, a convicted fugitive.

.

.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Buchholz

[Nickymaster]

Thailand either becomes a signotory or keep quiet Surapong. No need to keep on misleading the reds.

[khunken]

I have covered the ICC in Africa, where there have been several major cases against human rights violators in recent years, and there seem to be some misconceptions in this thread about how the ICC works. First of all, a country must be a signatory to the ICC convention. If the country is not a signatory, the ICC will not investigate cases in that country. However, once a country is a signatory, the ICC reserves the right to pursue whatever legal actions the ICZc deems appropriate, regardless of political fall out. There is no such thing as ICC justice on demand, as the Thai Foreign Minister implies here. Joining the ICC opens the door for international investigation and potential international prosecutions which may be both embarassing and unpleasant. The recent ICC investigations into the electoral violence in Kenya a few years ago are a good example.. Government ministers and other high-ranking officials were indicted, and asked to appear in The Hague before the ICC Tribunal, and this case remains unresolved. Sudan's President Bashir Al Assad is an ICC indicted war criminal who has refused to appear in the Hague, and is now the target of an international arrest warrant which greatly limits his travels. Contrary to popular myth, the ICC is completely independent of the Security Council and the UN, and the Chief Prosecutor, now Fatima Bensouda from the Gambia, officially operates free from any political interference. A note: ICC investigations are notoriously slow and arduous,so they tend to focus on the big fish!

I agree with the above but, unfortunately, the ICC has lost its way from what it was set up to be. The original idea was to have a court to try those cases that governments were incapable of or unwilling to take on. Again, unfortunately, too many rather important countries refused to sign or ratify the agreement.

The ICC is now being used - too often by western countries outside the ICC membership - to arrest & try African leaders of one shape or another. In other words, it has become a political tool (& Bashir Al Assad is a prime example of that). I don't know how many calls there were to get the Gadaffi family to court during the Libyian civil war & now the same finger pointing is being used against Al Assad of Syria.

Thailand needs to be very careful about joining the ICC as the above post says.

[rubl]

The ICC has authority on crimes against humanity or genocide, but the anti-graft body is examining if there was any official misconduct in the suppression of the red-shirt protests, Wicha said. "These are different issues and we will continue our work over the case," he said.

If there was a 'crime against humanity', couldn't that also be labeled as 'official misconduct' therefor making it not really different issues?

BTW 98 deaths, with somewhat implied 'our 98 deaths'? I always thought it to be 91 or 92 with at least 15 or so police and army personel included?