British Guy Paying Tax Here In First Year

[johnfb]

Can anyone tell me if I should be paying tax ? I am in my first year in Thailand working in a school teaching having worked last few years in London teaching. I was a full tax payer in UK up until August 2005. I arrived in September and therefore have been teaching here for 6 months and I am being taxed by my school. I have been told that in first 1 or 2 years here I can work tax free. Is this true ? How do I recover the tax paid here if so ?

[GuestHouse]

There is a dual tax agreement between the UK and Thailand.

You have to pay tax, either in Thailand or the UK. Where your work is in Thailand or a service you provide is delivered in Thailand you pay Thai Tax.

You are still liable to pay tax in the UK, basically until you've been overseas for one full tax year April to April. If you arrived in Thailand this month, the clock starts ticking in April - not now!

However, you can offset the tax you pay in the Thailand against the the tax you should pay in the UK.

Bascially, you just tell the UK taxman you are paying tax in Thailand.

You should also submit a declaration of having moved offshore. See the UK tax website.

[johnfb]

I have no income in the UK, I moved in September and have only had an income here since...I pay no tax in the UK therefore. Is it therefore not true when people from the UK tell me that when started earning here in Thailand they have the first year ( some say 2 years ) here not paying tax assuming they were UK tax payers before they arrived here.

[rishi]

I believe your Thai employer is obliged to withhold tax for you starting from paycheck 1 - regardless of whatever.

I don't believe the Thai Revenue department, will refund anything based on assumptions - they'll require extremely substantial proof, that you've paid tax in UK.

[p_brownstone]

From your Post I assume that you simply left your U.K. employment, came to Thailand and took up another appointment, unrelated to - and uncompensated by - your previous U.K. employer?

If so you are only earning a Salary in Thailand and must pay Income tax in Thailand on that salary from Day 1.

You have no “Tax Holiday” or right to claim reimbursement from either Thai or U.K. Tax authorities for Tax paid on your current income in Thailand.

Patrick

[Taxelite.com]

Can anyone tell me if I should be paying tax ? I am in my first year in Thailand working in a school teaching having worked last few years in London teaching. I was a full tax payer in UK up until August 2005. I arrived in September and therefore have been teaching here for 6 months and I am being taxed by my school. I have been told that in first 1 or 2 years here I can work tax free. Is this true ? How do I recover the tax paid here if so ?

Basically if you derive assessable income from your post in Thailand, regardless where such income paid in or outside of Thailand, you are liable to personal income tax in Thailand.

Your Thai tax liability may be overiden by double tax agreement between Thailand and the UK ("the DTA"). You must determine whether you are a tax resident in Thailand.

Under Article 21 of the DTA, if you come to Thailand not exceeding 2 years for te purpose of teaching or engaging in research at a university, college or other recognized educational institution in Thailand and prior to the arrival to Thailand you are a resident of the UK, you shall be exempt from tax in Thailand on any remuneration for such teaching or research for a period not exceeding 2 years from the first date you arrived into Thailand.

Where your research is relevant to the public interest and not primarily for the benefit of some other private person or persons, you will not be exempt from such income.

I hope that this could answer your wonder.

[p_brownstone]

Please, let's not get overly complex!

"Dual Taxation Agreements" indeed!

From his two Posts it seems clear the OP is just another itinerant Teacher who left his previous job (as distinct from “career” or “vocation”) in the U.K., came to Thailand to teach English and "has been told" that he is entitled to Tax exemption in Thailand simply because he previously paid Income Tax in the U.K..

Basic facts are simple …… you earn money in Thailand, you are liable for Income Tax in Thailand from day 1 – plus, if you’re working for a reliable organisation, Social Welfare deductions too.

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

Patrick

Edited February 14, 2006 by p_brownstone

[Taxelite.com]

Please, let's not get overly complex!

"Dual Taxation Agreements" indeed!

From his two Posts it seems clear the OP is just another itinerant Teacher who left his previous job (as distinct from “career” or “vocation”) in the U.K., came to Thailand to teach English and "has been told" that he is entitled to Tax exemption in Thailand simply because he previously paid Income Tax in the U.K..

Basic facts are simple …… you earn money in Thailand, you are liable for Income Tax in Thailand from day 1 – plus, if you’re working for a reliable organisation, Social Welfare deductions too.

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

Patrick

Dear Sir,

I don't know who you are but by discrediting me, I assume that you are an expert. For being an expert, I assumed that you study International Taxation Law (especially for Double Tax Agreement).

If you never study any tax law, I suggest you should read the OECD commentary or the UN commentary on the DTA model. If you don't have enough time to study such mentioned stuff, I suggest you do a research on Revenue Department Tax Ruling No. GorKor 0811/1556 dated 20 February 2001.

In such tax ruling, the Revenue Department ruled that If you are an American teacher (the wording in the Thai-US DTA are what describing in the Thai-UK DTA) and you will be entitled to personal income tax exemption on the income derived from teaching remuneration provided that your period of being in Thailand must not exceed 2 years. Therefore, to be entitled the tax exemption, you must leave Thailand before staying in Thailand for 2 years.

In case you come back to Thailand later for teaching, you may not be entitled to tax exemption again because you might stay in Thailand longer than 2 years.

I think that it's a shame when you do not understand the tax law and try to discredit other people.

Should you have any questions, you may pm me for a request of such tax ruling.

[Luz_K]

I am now facing a same situation with Johnfd, and would like to thanx "Taxelite.com" for clearing my situation. Your answer is sophisticate and professionalism. I read through all previous comments and found out that comment from "MR. Partick" seems to be useless and harassment. This is a very useful website thus, it is very necessary to have some policy about preventing a hooligan.

From: Glasgow, Scotland

[rishi]

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

I don't think your hope is met Brownstone. Fortunately, this "expert" has already miscredited himself considerably.

He probably believe that choosing the handle 'taxelite.com' was a very clever trick, to get customers into his shop - but it wasn't.

If one goes to his website, one will be met by an introduction, supposedly written by someone who entitles himself 'Web Director". Curiously, about two weeks ago a member with handle 'Web_Director', was banned for imposing as a lawyer, taxlawyer and a few other professional titles. And guess what Web_Director's homepage is.

Web_Director's profile: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=26520

[p_brownstone]

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

I don't think your hope is met Brownstone. Fortunately, this "expert" has already miscredited himself considerably.

He probably believe that choosing the handle 'taxelite.com' was a very clever trick, to get customers into his shop - but it wasn't.

If one goes to his website, one will be met by an introduction, supposedly written by someone who entitles himself 'Web Director". Curiously, about two weeks ago a member with handle 'Web_Director', was banned for imposing as a lawyer, taxlawyer and a few other professional titles. And guess what Web_Director's homepage is.

Web_Director's profile: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=26520

It also seems his newly joined Glasgow based cheerleader is similarly linguistically challenged; however since he apparently Posted at around 2.00 am Glasgow time perhaps the pubs had just closed!

Patrick

[Taxelite.com]

Dear Ruz,

Thanks for your comments and your experience. I hope that my comment on such Thai tax liability will also be benefits to other people as well.

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

I don't think your hope is met Brownstone. Fortunately, this "expert" has already miscredited himself considerably.

He probably believe that choosing the handle 'taxelite.com' was a very clever trick, to get customers into his shop - but it wasn't.

If one goes to his website, one will be met by an introduction, supposedly written by someone who entitles himself 'Web Director". Curiously, about two weeks ago a member with handle 'Web_Director', was banned for imposing as a lawyer, taxlawyer and a few other professional titles. And guess what Web_Director's homepage is.

Web_Director's profile: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=26520

Dear Rishi,

I think that you miss the point here. We are here to help an English teacher guy who has a doubt in Thai tax liability.

My advice is based on my interpretation of Thai Revenue Code and the Double Tax Agreement between Thailand and the UK concerning personal income tax liability of an English teacher. My tax position is also supported by the decision of the Revenue Department according to the provided Tax Ruling. If you think that my tax position is wrong you may raise your support to argue my tax position.

If you have already checked my background, you may already read through our statement that we are there to share our tax and legal knowledge without a profit-making purpose. In addition, I am open-minded to accept all any arguments based on the Thai tax laws.

If you think that my existence to leave my comments here will obstruct your profit-making purposes. Then you could spread your word and then I shall take my leave. But if you have a merit mind, I think that this forum would be benefits for all viewers to share their knowledge and experience.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Taxelite.com

[rishi]

In case OP, is a bit confused by now - try to post your question in "Teaching In Thailand" forum. There you'll find real-life experts on wether UK-teachers pay tax in Thailand.

[Luz_K]

To: Mr. Patrick

For your information, I am just a teacher in a wee school, thus I am not dare enough to give out any comment without knowledge. As I know, Law is something about knowledge but not just "idea" therefore with just ideas but "no knowledge" can cause huge damages. However, let me suggest some "quick fix" for your problems. Firstly, focus more on "Ethic and Professionalism" and be more open-minded. Secondly, confidence is good but not arrogance. Thirdly, learn how to appreciate spiritual aspects of education and of professional development. Lastly, there are tons of formal education out there waiting for you so please for your own sake just go to school my dear. Please make thing to be a bite size tasks and reduce everything to "skill-talk".

Expert: "when things are proceeding normally, experts don't solve problems and don't make decision; they do what normally work" Hubert Dreyfus

[phuketsiam]

Just checked out the taxelite web site, same grammar errors as the poster and same style of writing, looks like a search engine spam attempt as well trawling for biz to me

[Taxelite.com]

To: All commenters on my grammar issue:

Thank you for your comments on my grammar, and I will correct my writting as soon as possible.

What about my legal opinion, is there any comment? It would be highly appreciate if you will please give me some comment on my legal opinion, since this is a legal forum. I am looking forward to hear from you.

[HLS]

Please, let's not get overly complex!

"Dual Taxation Agreements" indeed!

From his two Posts it seems clear the OP is just another itinerant Teacher who left his previous job (as distinct from “career” or “vocation”) in the U.K., came to Thailand to teach English and "has been told" that he is entitled to Tax exemption in Thailand simply because he previously paid Income Tax in the U.K..

Basic facts are simple …… you earn money in Thailand, you are liable for Income Tax in Thailand from day 1 – plus, if you’re working for a reliable organisation, Social Welfare deductions too.

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

Patrick

What is wrong with Taxelite.com using "Double tax agreement"? Either "Double Taxation Agreement" or "Double Taxation Treaty" is such a technical term used world-wide, isn't it? Just go and google "double taxation agreement" and you will find hundreds of official revenue department websites of countries out there including UK using this term. Also, you can find the same term employed by Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. See www.oecd.org for your reference. See also 23 Yale J. Int'l L. 79 (The Yale Journal of International Law), 49 Tax L. Rev. 691 (New York University School of Law Tax Law Review), and 14 Berkeley J. Int'l L. 99 (Berkeley Journal of International Law) if you somehow have access to westlaw or lexisnexis for samples of US law reviews and journals commonly using these two terms interchangably.

One more thing about grammatical error point. Just because you, Patrick and Phuketsiam, are more fluent in english (perhaps because you were luckily born or grew up in a country in which english is the first language) than the others does not mean you are better than them in other respects. I can tell that Taxelite.com's mother tongue is not english, and, admittedly, neither is mine. But what JohnFd and others, who post and seek resolutions to problems they are suffering, need are obviously not correct examples of english usage, which would have been ridiculous had an english teacher from England needed so.

This guy picking handle identical to his website, as presumed by richi, is, I agree, somewhat commercially-related. However, to be fair, if you think his advice is wrong, the better way to challenge him should be to argue and correct him by citing certain provisions of law, rulings, or cases, the way lawyers are taught in law school no matter what system, either common law or civil law, their schools are, rather than pointing out the grammartical error which is of very small importance considering the context of what are discussed.

Edited February 20, 2006 by HLS

[RAZZELL]

I've never known a jock speak like that...even after the pub!!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am now facing a same situation with Johnfd, and would like to thanx "Taxelite.com" for clearing my situation. Your answer is sophisticate and professionalism. I read through all previous comments and found out that comment from "MR. Partick" seems to be useless and harassment. This is a very useful website thus, it is very necessary to have some policy about preventing a hooligan.

From: Glasgow, Scotland

Jeez Jock. Taxelite is a good bloke eh ? Not everyone would let you use his UK IP but ole Tax let you hop on in and defend him ( Mind you ole Tax has the advantage of using intercontinental proxies to help conceal his identities )

Incidentally, Newbie "Taxelite.com" 's Post seems curiously verbose, mis-spelt and unclear - I do hope he's not yet another self appointed "expert" setting up shop in Thailand to give unreliable advice to vulnerable Expats!

I don't think your hope is met Brownstone. Fortunately, this "expert" has already miscredited himself considerably.

He probably believe that choosing the handle 'taxelite.com' was a very clever trick, to get customers into his shop - but it wasn't.

If one goes to his website, one will be met by an introduction, supposedly written by someone who entitles himself 'Web Director". Curiously, about two weeks ago a member with handle 'Web_Director', was banned for imposing as a lawyer, taxlawyer and a few other professional titles. And guess what Web_Director's homepage is.

Web_Director's profile: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showuser=26520

Well spotted. The very same entrepreneur who will forthwith suffer the same fate as Web Director. Luz K will also leave us.