How About Making Money With Oxs

[nicelee808]

When i was in Ubon, last Oct 2005, I went with my girlfriend to a cattle market type thing, was weird seeing Thai men in Cowboy gear, I ending up buying an Ox for 55,000 Baht, they said she was pregnant, buy a Champion Ox named Turbo, but that dosent seem to be true now.

Anyway, why do the people of Ubon(trakan) have so many Oxs and is there money to be made.

Edited February 14, 2006 by nicelee808

[thaibites0]

It is a declining market I'm afraid to say - the tractor started taking over about 15 years ago and the villagers sold the oxen! My father-in-law at the time went from 6 to none in 6 months and the family have never bought another one.

There is a fortune to be made if you have the time and space to buy and breed oxen to sell to the villagers when the crash comes and oil prices put the tractors out of business. You will have to wait 5 years before recovering any venture capital though.

[nicelee808]

It is a declining market I'm afraid to say - the tractor started taking over about 15 years ago and the villagers sold the oxen! My father-in-law at the time went from 6 to none in 6 months and the family have never bought another one.

There is a fortune to be made if you have the time and space to buy and breed oxen to sell to the villagers when the crash comes and oil prices put the tractors out of business. You will have to wait 5 years before recovering any venture capital though.

thanks thaibites. how about growing yang pa la(rubber) I have 10 Rai near campia city and need to start something soon.

[sezzo]

It is a declining market I'm afraid to say - the tractor started taking over about 15 years ago and the villagers sold the oxen! My father-in-law at the time went from 6 to none in 6 months and the family have never bought another one.

There is a fortune to be made if you have the time and space to buy and breed oxen to sell to the villagers when the crash comes and oil prices put the tractors out of business. You will have to wait 5 years before recovering any venture capital though.

thanks thaibites. how about growing yang pa la(rubber) I have 10 Rai near campia city and need to start something soon.

Nicelee808,

My wife and I have a newly planted rubber farm about 50 ks north of Trakan Phuetphon. There has been a fair bit of stuff posted in the Issan forum about rubber farms. Just do a search at the bottom of this page for it.

If you want some more info just PM me and although Im no expert I will try and answer a few queries if you have some.

Cheeers,

Carl

[raslin]

Now I am really confused.

I had always understood that Thai used water buffalos as draught animals.

Does any body know the the ratio that existed between buffaloes and oxen?

Roger in Surin

[plachon]

Now I am really confused.

I had always understood that Thai used water buffalos as draught animals.

Does any body know the the ratio that existed between buffaloes and oxen?

Roger in Surin

Buffaloes were used for pulling the plough, oxen were used for pulling carts, called khwian to market or the local town. Khwian used to be a status symbol, with the richest people spending a small fortune on customising their vehicles with elaborate carvings. The remains of the khwian can now be seen adorning the fences of restuarants and gardens of the rich, or very occasionally one can be seen mouldering under someones house, unused for the past 3 decades.

Never seen any oxen at work in Isaan in last 15 years, but there used to be quite a few still used regularly in northern Thailand not so long ago. Ten years ago there was still a guy using a pair of ox to haul sand from the river in Nan, for use in building. A nice sight, but I fear it may be a thing of the past now.

There also used to be a few villages in Isaan using little ponies as the power to pull traps to and from the fields, but again, they now seem to have gone the way of the dodo. would be interested to know if anyone still sees any ox or ponies at work, in their neck of the woods (wots left of them)?

[thaibites0]

Water buffaloes are the Oxen of Thailand and where used extensively in farming until the tractor took over and made it easier and cheaper to get rid of the buffaloes and pay the smart guy that bought a tractor to plough your fields.

If you want to insult a Thai very badly you just call him/her a 'kwai' but I would suggest you stand back if you do.

The price of fuel is rising every week and fairly soon the tractors will join the rotting hulks you see dotted along the roadside. When Thailand cannot buy oil on the open market because of world demand and find that the oil shale they have in the north will not produce the quantities required most of the cars in the traffic jams in BKK will be scrapped.

[chownah]

You can see oxen plowing every year in May when the Royal Oxen plow at Sanam Luang under the control of a member of the Royal Family. After they plow they are offered big trays filled with various types of foods and drinks and you can determine how the coming year will unfold by observing which items the oxen choose to eat and drink first. Its a great time and worth watching even if you can only watch it on television.

Edited February 19, 2006 by chownah

[nicelee808]

Another issue with this topic is that when the ubon people buy there oxen they like to see the oxen with very long ears, some of the have ears down past their mouths my girlfrienD said this is "sawai mac mar" (very bueatiful). Also I was quite shocked by the size of some of the champion Oxen named Turbo and Boy Ubon they were bigger than horses and and humps like a camal.

It was brilliant.

[thaibites0]

There will always be buffaloes in Thailand much the same as there are shire horses in the UK but when was the last time you saw your local pub being serviced by a horse drawn delivery wagon?

They look very nice when done out in thier finery and bedecked with horse brasses but it is only on special occaisions that you will see them. Water buffaloes were a standard sight along the roadside some years ago but you would find it hard to spot one now!

They are there and will always be there but not in any large numbers.

[sezzo]

There will always be buffaloes in Thailand much the same as there are shire horses in the UK but when was the last time you saw your local pub being serviced by a horse drawn delivery wagon?

They look very nice when done out in thier finery and bedecked with horse brasses but it is only on special occaisions that you will see them. Water buffaloes were a standard sight along the roadside some years ago but you would find it hard to spot one now!They are there and will always be there but not in any large numbers.

You obviously dont drive around Khemarat (100ks nth of Ubon) very much then.

We play dodge the "Kwai on the road" every day. And thats on the main road from Khemarat to Amnat or on the Ubon road.

[chownah]

There will always be buffaloes in Thailand much the same as there are shire horses in the UK but when was the last time you saw your local pub being serviced by a horse drawn delivery wagon?

They look very nice when done out in thier finery and bedecked with horse brasses but it is only on special occaisions that you will see them. Water buffaloes were a standard sight along the roadside some years ago but you would find it hard to spot one now!They are there and will always be there but not in any large numbers.

You obviously dont drive around Khemarat (100ks nth of Ubon) very much then.

We play dodge the "Kwai on the road" every day. And thats on the main road from Khemarat to Amnat or on the Ubon road.

Yes, and kwai meat is regularly eaten in the north...there must be alot of them up here somewhere cause we keep right on eating them...and if you go to the cattle market there are always some for sale, young and mature.

[JungleBiker]

Another issue with this topic is that when the ubon people buy there oxen they like to see the oxen with very long ears, some of the have ears down past their mouths my girlfrienD said this is "sawai mac mar" (very bueatiful). Also I was quite shocked by the size of some of the champion Oxen named Turbo and Boy Ubon they were bigger than horses and and humps like a camal.

It was brilliant.

I think this post is talking about (and mixing up) two different subjects. Some of you are talking about buffalo - traditionally used for ploughing but now replaced by tractors - so the population of buffalo has declined dramtically over recent decades. Others are talking about cattle - and the long ears and humps sounds like the brahman cattle that are increasing in numbers due to strong demand for their beef. In my opinion it is better not to use the word "oxen" - whatever they are.

Junglebiker.

[zzap]

Buffalos are raised for the meat these days. Most of my neighbours have 1 or 2, how profitable it is, I don't know, it's a sideline for the rice-farmers.

[Simmo]

From what my gf tells me , the water buffaloes only value now is for fertiliser from their manure and meat. The tractor has replaced them in all farm work.

[thaibites0]

Water buffaloes were a standard sight along the roadside some years ago but you would find it hard to spot one now

Perhaps I should reword this or maybe just add 'pulling a plough' onto the end of it!

[nicelee808]

Another issue with this topic is that when the ubon people buy there oxen they like to see the oxen with very long ears, some of the have ears down past their mouths my girlfrienD said this is "sawai mac mar" (very bueatiful). Also I was quite shocked by the size of some of the champion Oxen named Turbo and Boy Ubon they were bigger than horses and and humps like a camal.

It was brilliant.

I think this post is talking about (and mixing up) two different subjects. Some of you are talking about buffalo - traditionally used for ploughing but now replaced by tractors - so the population of buffalo has declined dramtically over recent decades. Others are talking about cattle - and the long ears and humps sounds like the brahman cattle that are increasing in numbers due to strong demand for their beef. In my opinion it is better not to use the word "oxen" - whatever they are.

Junglebiker.

Thanks jungle biker, that sounds right, the animal I bought was a brahman, she is really big

[sezzo]

From what my gf tells me , the water buffaloes only value now is for fertiliser from their manure and meat. The tractor has replaced them in all farm work.

Around our way the two wheel tractor is the main tractor implement but in the poorer villages you still see the buffalo pulling along the wooden plough in preparation for the rice planting.

[JungleBiker]

Water buffaloes are the Oxen of Thailand and where used extensively in farming until the tractor took over and made it easier and cheaper to get rid of the buffaloes and pay the smart guy that bought a tractor to plough your fields.

If you want to insult a Thai very badly you just call him/her a 'kwai' but I would suggest you stand back if you do.

The price of fuel is rising every week and fairly soon the tractors will join the rotting hulks you see dotted along the roadside. When Thailand cannot buy oil on the open market because of world demand and find that the oil shale they have in the north will not produce the quantities required most of the cars in the traffic jams in BKK will be scrapped.

It seems you are not aware of the current revolution that is taking place... in Thailand and many other countries in the region, many people are planting Jatropha curcas (Thai name is "sabu dam") to produce an oil that can be converted into biodiesel; Thailand is also planting oil palm to produce biodiesel. In a few years time, there will be no need to rely on countries like Saudi Arabia to supply fuel for tractors, cars and other vehicles. Due to the recent increases in oil prices, making biodiesel is now a profitable enterprise. It is possible to have your own integrated oil plantation, conversion plant and retail station all in one. Investment should be less than US$100,000.

Junglebiker

[bina]

guys!! buffalo are draught animals

so are the brahmin cattle

cow is a female of all bovine types (cattle) whether buffalo, beef cattle, milk cattle

bull is an intact male

ox is a castrated male for work purposes (rare in the west)

a castrated calf becomes veal (some countries dont castrate calves for keeping the veal 'tender')

oxen are the male of the cattle species (cows) that have been castrated after reacheing a certain age ( to get the height and muscle but lack the sex drive since once an animal has had experience with breeding, he can still do the sex work without the bad effects, i.e. babies, he remembers what to do which can make it dangerous for working -- anybody ride a stallion that used to stud? and have him try to mount the mare with rider?)

castrated males of any species (how about men? ) make better work animals: donkeys, horses (gelding), whethers (male billy goat for show/pet) , dogs etc....they usually lack the aggressiveness and make for easier handling and working

thai also castrate their male buffalos for work purposes but an intact male buffalo is more 'jai yen' then a cattle bull (so my thai workers tell me) anyway....

wonder what a castrated manwould do as a work partner???

Edited February 23, 2006 by bina

[plachon]

Why don't you suggest it to your Isaan partner, Bina?

Never know, you could start a hard working male harem of Isaan geldings, ideal for farmwork and getting the job done on time. Fed on somtam, gai yaang and pla daek; they'd be easy to keep, loyal and "kayaan", but firing blanks in the trouser dept. In fact, you could create a new breed of Thai-Israeli jaffas!

guys!! buffalo are draught animals

so are the brahmin cattle

cow is a female of all bovine types (cattle) whether buffalo, beef cattle, milk cattle

bull is an intact male

ox is a castrated male for work purposes (rare in the west)

a castrated calf becomes veal (some countries dont castrate calves for keeping the veal 'tender')

oxen are the male of the cattle species (cows) that have been castrated after reacheing a certain age ( to get the height and muscle but lack the sex drive since once an animal has had experience with breeding, he can still do the sex work without the bad effects, i.e. babies, he remembers what to do which can make it dangerous for working -- anybody ride a stallion that used to stud? and have him try to mount the mare with rider?)

castrated males of any species (how about men? ) make better work animals: donkeys, horses (gelding), whethers (male billy goat for show/pet) , dogs etc....they usually lack the aggressiveness and make for easier handling and working

thai also castrate their male buffalos for work purposes but an intact male buffalo is more 'jai yen' then a cattle bull (so my thai workers tell me) anyway....

wonder what a castrated manwould do as a work partner???

[thaibites0]

It seems you are not aware of the current revolution that is taking place... in Thailand and many other countries in the region, many people are planting Jatropha curcas (Thai name is "sabu dam") to produce an oil that can be converted into biodiesel; Thailand is also planting oil palm to produce biodiesel. In a few years time, there will be no need to rely on countries like Saudi Arabia to supply fuel for tractors, cars and other vehicles. Due to the recent increases in oil prices, making biodiesel is now a profitable enterprise. It is possible to have your own integrated oil plantation, conversion plant and retail station all in one. Investment should be less than US$100,000.

Junglebiker'

One does of course have to ask where the rice is going to be grown! If the country is going to grow something (lots of things can be converted to fuel for your car) to replace the oil imports it has to be on a very large scale and a simple Google search will show you that 'Biofuel' is not really an alternitive unless you can buy your staple food from overseas.

[chownah]

It seems you are not aware of the current revolution that is taking place... in Thailand and many other countries in the region, many people are planting Jatropha curcas (Thai name is "sabu dam") to produce an oil that can be converted into biodiesel; Thailand is also planting oil palm to produce biodiesel. In a few years time, there will be no need to rely on countries like Saudi Arabia to supply fuel for tractors, cars and other vehicles. Due to the recent increases in oil prices, making biodiesel is now a profitable enterprise. It is possible to have your own integrated oil plantation, conversion plant and retail station all in one. Investment should be less than US$100,000.

Junglebiker'

One does of course have to ask where the rice is going to be grown! If the country is going to grow something (lots of things can be converted to fuel for your car) to replace the oil imports it has to be on a very large scale and a simple Google search will show you that 'Biofuel' is not really an alternitive unless you can buy your staple food from overseas.

Alcohol as a fuel has an advantage over vegetable oil for diesel in that alcohol can be made from crop wastes that already exist as by products of food production. Alot of the research being done now in biofuels is how to utilize this waste.

[jts-khorat]

from what he describes in his follow up on his original post, he talks definitely not about buffaloes, but about Brahman cattle: big hump, long ears, etc. Their meat is quite tasty and if held correctly, they can bring in nice money (there are some threads right on this forum about it).

Buffalows however are working animals and very much not in demand any more; their meat tastes very strong. I am currently living in Phuket and we have lots of them in the neighboring provinces, so you get a lot of their meat as 'beef' in the local Thai restaurants.

[Vegemite]

Water buffaloes are the Oxen of Thailand and where used extensively in farming until the tractor took over and made it easier and cheaper to get rid of the buffaloes and pay the smart guy that bought a tractor to plough your fields.

If you want to insult a Thai very badly you just call him/her a 'kwai' but I would suggest you stand back if you do.

The price of fuel is rising every week and fairly soon the tractors will join the rotting hulks you see dotted along the roadside. When Thailand cannot buy oil on the open market because of world demand and find that the oil shale they have in the north will not produce the quantities required most of the cars in the traffic jams in BKK will be scrapped.

It seems you are not aware of the current revolution that is taking place... in Thailand and many other countries in the region, many people are planting Jatropha curcas (Thai name is "sabu dam") to produce an oil that can be converted into biodiesel; Thailand is also planting oil palm to produce biodiesel. In a few years time, there will be no need to rely on countries like Saudi Arabia to supply fuel for tractors, cars and other vehicles. Due to the recent increases in oil prices, making biodiesel is now a profitable enterprise. It is possible to have your own integrated oil plantation, conversion plant and retail station all in one. Investment should be less than US$100,000.

Junglebiker

Please tell me more.

Are rice fields good for this or not?

[oceanrover]

It is a declining market I'm afraid to say - the tractor started taking over about 15 years ago and the villagers sold the oxen! My father-in-law at the time went from 6 to none in 6 months and the family have never bought another one.

There is a fortune to be made if you have the time and space to buy and breed oxen to sell to the villagers when the crash comes and oil prices put the tractors out of business. You will have to wait 5 years before recovering any venture capital though.

thanks thaibites. how about growing yang pa la(rubber) I have 10 Rai near campia city and need to start something soon.

Nicelee808,

My wife and I have a newly planted rubber farm about 50 ks north of Trakan Phuetphon. There has been a fair bit of stuff posted in the Issan forum about rubber farms. Just do a search at the bottom of this page for it.

If you want some more info just PM me and although Im no expert I will try and answer a few queries if you have some.

Cheeers,

Carl

Hey Carl,

My wife is from Trakan Phuetphon as well. I have asked her about yang pa la(rubber) farms as a possible passive income for retirement. I was told that Isaan is not that great for the trees. She told me that the south was better suited. I would think that theft, storms and floods would make the NE more appealing. Do they just not produce as much compared to the plantings in the south?

From what I have read so far here are the generally accepted stats on farms.

7 years to grow a producing tree.

7 months of production yearly.

15-20 year useful life.

1/2 kilo a day average production per tree.

current about 70bht a kilo

Are these close to what you are aware of?

What is this Palm Oil that I hearing about?

Do the trees produce sooner?

Longer life?

Daily Production?

I saw that it was around 20 bht a gallon currently.

I am going to be renting out my home here when I retire and hopefully have a few other rental properties so any farming will just be supplemental or to get the family to be productive

Thanks.

Mike

[JungleBiker]

Please tell me more.

Are rice fields good for this or not?

Hi Vegemite,

If you or someone you know can read Thai then there are some booklets in the magazine shelves of bookstores about “saboo dam” that will give you further information.

You can also google using key words like biodiesel jatropha

For an example (from UK) of small-scale equipment to convert Jatropha oil into biodiesel visit this web site:

http://www.green-fuels.co.uk/index.htm

This company has a distributor in Bangkok (German guy named Axel) who can give you prices and more information.

Before making the biodiesel you need to extract the oil from the jatropha seeds – that requires another machine (a screw press).

Another British company D1 plc is promoting larger scale production using a containerised processing unit. www.d1plc.com

Growing in rice fields…. Yes, it may be possible. If irrigated rice fields as opposed to rain fed rice fields then that would be an advantage because most crops produce more when irrigated. However, as with most non-rice crops you have to be sure that the fields can be drained and don’t flood. Jatropha doesn’t like living in water or waterlogged soil. It would be best to plant on raised beds and perhaps necessary to dig drainage ditches/channels. Jatropha is actually good at surviving dry conditions.

Thaibites0 is concerned about where the rice will be grown (if jatropha takes off) but I would expect most jatropha to be planted on non-rice land such as is currently used for growing sugar cane, cassava, rubber, eucalyptus, etc. In any case Thailand could produce twice as much rice by doubling its yields by planting hybrid rice varieties as is already being done in China, Philippines, Vietnam, etc. Did you see the article in the Bangkok Post last Sunday (5 March) – a record of 16.7 tons/ha has been achieved in the Philippines. Thailand’s rice yields are among the lowest in Asia. Thailand’s rice farmers and the government’s agricultural extension people should be ashamed of themselves. I think CP is now developing hybrid rice production in Thailand.

One of the keys to successful production of jatropha is in the pruning. You need to prune the shoots to encourage a bushy habit. Expect to harvest oilseeds in the second year. If you don’t prune you will get seeds in the first year, but overall yields will be lower in the end.

EU regulations require a certain percentage of diesel sold in the EU by such and such a year to be biodiesel so companies like D1 plc are rushing to produce biodiesel wherever they can in the world. It’s cheaper to produce in the tropics than in the EU. But like I said earlier anyone in Thailand could set up their own gas pump and sell it to passing motorists – no need to spend money on distribution.

Those of you thinking of rubber, don’t forget that someone has to get up in the early hours of the morning to tap the trees – are your in-laws prepared for that job?

If raised properly (for meat rather than ploughing) buffalo meat can be as tender as beef and lower in cholesterol. Demand for buffalo meat is not declining. Local supply is declining, so Thailand is now importing perhaps 100,000 buffalo a year from neighbouring countries like Laos (and would take more if they were available). (At say US$500 a head that’s US$50 million worth). Partly as a consequence of the strong demand from Thailand stocks of buffalo are now starting to decline in the neighbouring countries (the other reason is that farmers in these other countries are also converting to “iron buffalos”). Vietnam seems to be the only country in this area that has realised there is an opportunity to start breeding and raising buffalo professionally. (Again the Thai farmers and government extension people are amateurs). In Thailand the meat of buffalo is preferred for making meat balls. If anybody would like to start farming buffalo in Laos for supply to Thailand’s meat ball factories I’ll be interested to help. I can get you access to hundreds or even thousands of hectares of cheap land with lots of rain (good for growing grass) and provide advice on how to produce the grasses and other forages, etc. Organize the management, marketing, etc. I would do it myself, but I don’t have sufficient capital to invest as I am investing what capital I do have in my ornamental plant businesses. I would invest my time and knowledge for a share of the business.

Junglebiker.

[bina]

junglebiker,

just out of curiuosity, are there breed registers or type standards for buffalos? in other words, if u are breeding for meat, are there stock that are listed so that when u buy a female or stud, u know that line is better for meat (more muscle mass etc....) in other words, like in goats, there are varieties that lactate a lot but lower in butterfat, some are low producers but higher in butterfat, some are meat only and some are multi purpose (usually indigenous types ).... since thai dont breed buffalo for milk like in italy (there the female is prized and registered according to butterfat/production amounts)....

its seems to me that eventually, the thai upper/middle class will 'discover ethnic' and then buffalo will become gourmet just like 'chevre ' (goat meat) in the states is starting to become...

then there is the beefalo which never did take off in the states for some reason (a meat cow/buffalo cross)...

[thaibites0]

Thailand is now importing perhaps 100,000 buffalo a year from neighbouring countries like Laos (and would take more if they were available). (At say US$500 a head that’s US$50 million worth).

That's quite expensive for a Buffalo here isn't it? B20,000 a time? Are these Bio firms selling Franchises and hoping them to grow here? There is a niche market in bio-fuel but it will not supply the Thai market with the alternative to oil imports.The oil shale in the north will go the way of the Canadian oil shale market and the gas/oil deposits in the south will never take the place of imports.

When the global market makes it difficult for Thailand to buy oil on the open market you need to look at just how much is imported and how much 'cottage' industry can produce - the crunch will come in the next 5 years and B26 a Litre will seem so cheap you will wonder why you didn't fill a HUGE tank with it!

A little to hardline? Switch of the Fox news feed and do a net search for 'peak oil' - was that too extreme? Try 'bio fuel future' and see what you get.

Still too extreme? try 'disney world America' and open another bag of chips.

[JungleBiker]

Thailand is now importing perhaps 100,000 buffalo a year from neighbouring countries like Laos (and would take more if they were available). (At say US$500 a head that’s US$50 million worth).

That's quite expensive for a Buffalo here isn't it? B20,000 a time? Are these Bio firms selling Franchises and hoping them to grow here? There is a niche market in bio-fuel but it will not supply the Thai market with the alternative to oil imports.The oil shale in the north will go the way of the Canadian oil shale market and the gas/oil deposits in the south will never take the place of imports.

When the global market makes it difficult for Thailand to buy oil on the open market you need to look at just how much is imported and how much 'cottage' industry can produce - the crunch will come in the next 5 years and B26 a Litre will seem so cheap you will wonder why you didn't fill a HUGE tank with it!

A little to hardline? Switch of the Fox news feed and do a net search for 'peak oil' - was that too extreme? Try 'bio fuel future' and see what you get.

Still too extreme? try 'disney world America' and open another bag of chips.

Hi Thaibites0,

I haven't checked the prices of buffalo in Thailand, I only know the export price of buffalo from Laos. US$500 or 20,000 baht or 5 million kip is for a big buffalo - which is what you get when you feed them with lots of good grass! (rather than rice straw ). Thai buffalo may not be so well fed, plus the size of buffalo (especially in Thailand and increasingly in Laos) has been declining over recent years as farmers sell off the big ones (rather the keep the big strong ones for breeding and cull the small weak animals). They sell them to buy an "iron buffalo" (Kubota) or motorbike, so they are not interested in systematic/selective breeding for growth/size, etc. I've read that buffalo used to weight 1,000 kgs, but now 500 kgs is common.

About oil/energy - I don't know about any franchises, but that sounds like a potential opporttunity for someone.

I am not an expert in this but according to what I have heard from people who are deeper into this business I understand that biodiesel made from Jatropha oil costs less than imported diesel, so I don't see why you consider it a niche product. Biodiesel is also better for engines than diesel and better for the environment. I'll do searches as you suggested later. But I wonder if what you have read refers to biofuels produced in the US? Biodiesel made from US soybeans or corn may not be competitive with diesel, but biodiesel made in the tropics (e.g. from palm oil or jatropha) is competitive. I read an article in the Economist last year about alternative energy and it also seemed to be negative about biofuels, but they did not even mention jatropha and palm oil - they only considered the situation in the USA/Europe. (Please note that I am only talking here about biodiesel, not biomass, ethanol, etc)

Biodiesel can be a "cottage industry" but it can also be "large-scale industrial". To give just one example from India, D1 Mohan Bio Oils Ltd, a Joint Venture between Chennai-based Mohan Breweries and Distilleries and UK-based D1 Oils is aiming to produce 250,000 - 300,000 tons of crude Jatropha oil per annum from 100,000 hectares. By the way, D1 is already operating in Thailand; for example a friend of mine is currently talking with them about using a 5,000 hectare B52 airbase near Khon Kaen to grow jatropha. Here in Laos I know a company that is planning to plant at least 3,000 hectares. The containerised conversion unit (i.e. from D1, not the 150 or 300 liter per day unit from Greenfuels) I mentioned before can produce 8 million liters per year. Besides jatropha, you should also consider the palm oil - Thailand is already a big producer (not sure of the area but probably hundreds of thousands of hectares) and as oil prices increase more and more of this will be made into biofuel instead of cooking oil, etc. Meaning that your bag of chips will also go up in price!

Junglebiker (as in mountainbike or bicycle - not Harley)

junglebiker,

just out of curiuosity, are there breed registers or type standards for buffalos? in other words, if u are breeding for meat, are there stock that are listed so that when u buy a female or stud, u know that line is better for meat (more muscle mass etc....) in other words, like in goats, there are varieties that lactate a lot but lower in butterfat, some are low producers but higher in butterfat, some are meat only and some are multi purpose (usually indigenous types ).... since thai dont breed buffalo for milk like in italy (there the female is prized and registered according to butterfat/production amounts)....

its seems to me that eventually, the thai upper/middle class will 'discover ethnic' and then buffalo will become gourmet just like 'chevre ' (goat meat) in the states is starting to become...

then there is the beefalo which never did take off in the states for some reason (a meat cow/buffalo cross)...

Hi Bina,

I don't know about in Thailand, but I am 99.999% sure that there is no such register or standards for buffalo in Laos (errrr... make that 101%). Laos has a reputation of receiving superior genetic materials of crops and livestock (donated by other governments or development agencies) and then eating them! No joke. In fact, related to the other part of your post, some years ago the government of India donated a herd of dairy buffalo to Laos (the Murrah breed) - but never mind the milk, the meat sure tasted good. (No dairy buffalo in Laos now - and only one dairy cow farm in the country and that's bankrupt! ). Another example, a French government funded cotton project here in Laos developed a new variety of cotton that was suited to organic production. They needed to multiply the seed to have enough to supply to farmers. They sent the seed cotton to Bangkok supposedly to remove the cotton lint from the seeds so that they could be used for planting. However, the seeds never came back - they were crushed to extract cotton seed oil (I guess the Thais were blamed for that, but someone here in the government probably put some money in his own pocket from the sale of the cotton seed oil ).

About breeding for milk.... Actually, what I understand is that there are two different types of water buffalo - the swamp type and the riverine type. The first is what you find here in south east asia and is used for traction and meat. The second is what you get in Italy, Pakistan, India, etc, and is used as a dairy animal. What is interesting is that when you cross these two breeds, you get a "very fast-growing animal that produces high-quality meat. Up to 40% improvement in growth rate has been measured in the Northern Territories [of Australia] with the first-cross calves and yearlings. The first crossbreds slaughtered provided a TenderBuff product superior to that previously produced."

The last scentence is quoted from an Australian source. They are the ones who are breeding water buffalo seriously and marketing high quality buffalo meat (hence the brand name TenderBuff). See: http://www.rirdc.gov.au/pub/handbook/contents.html

By the way, you probably know Bina, but not many people do know that true mozerela (spelling?) cheese as used to make real pizza is made from the milk of buffalo.

India exports thousands of tons of buffalo meat - they have a huge dairy industry, but most Hindus are vegetarian so they have to send the meat somewhere else.

Regarding beefalo, I learned about these before but I was not aware that they hadn't taken off? In fact I was recently thinking about bringing in some beefalo semen to inseminate some of the native Lao cattle. The buffalo they use is the American Plains buffalo (or bison) - not a water buffalo. Bison can cross with beef cattle, but water buffalo cannot.

Good source of information about water buffalo: http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/djligda/waterbuf.htm

Junglebiker.

A little to hardline? Switch of the Fox news feed and do a net search for 'peak oil' - was that too extreme? Try 'bio fuel future' and see what you get.

Hi Thaibites, I just checked your search words. Interesting, but the story I read in the Economist last year actually disagreed with "the doomsday theory". It basically said that as oil prices go up, oil resources that are not economic to exploit now, will become increasingly viable. So more oil will continue to become available and in the meantime we will develop other energy sources. Anyhow, I am not arguing one way or the other, I am only suggesting that based on what I do know I think biodiesel production in the tropics is now taking off.

Junglebiker.