Health Insurance

[LoveDaBlues]

After meeting with a couple of health/life insurance companies I'm beginning to wonder if the best path is to stay self insured. Admittedly I'm just in the beginning stages of my research but perhaps some smart person out there has looked into Hospital costs, cost of surgeries, etc., etc. and drawn some conclusions. I'm 49, never smoked, drink very little, perfect blood pressure, general good health.

Health insurance in the states is a must because of the high cost involved with nearly any illness, surgery, etc. ........... but here?

[Golden Retriever]

After meeting with a couple of health/life insurance companies I'm beginning to wonder if the best path is to stay self insured. Admittedly I'm just in the beginning stages of my research but perhaps some smart person out there has looked into Hospital costs, cost of surgeries, etc., etc. and drawn some conclusions. I'm 49, never smoked, drink very little, perfect blood pressure, general good health.

Health insurance in the states is a must because of the high cost involved with nearly any illness, surgery, etc. ........... but here?

you cant foresee what are going to happen, better to select some

[Firefan]

LDB I used quite a bit of time researching it and first question is; can one AFFORD to self insure. A car accident with you in a coma and evacuation to Singapore for world class brain surgery is estimated at about $150k. (I generally get things done in Thailand - but Singapore is still one step up).

Another case; you are in a coma/knocked out and family wants you home to US for best treatment and to be at your side. If dedicated ambulance plane needed that is also about $150k for the flight only.

Now; you might say; "hey I am gone - who cares?" but if you have people that love you in the US you might not think that way. This example is based on the real life Danish guy w. no insurance in a coma recently in Thailand (Pattaya?) who never came home to the grieving parents.

Even here in Thailand the prices have gone up, and if you go Bumringrad or similar and spend weeks with serious surgery and MRI scans Etc. it can be 10s of thousands of $.

Last I checked; not smoking does not stop you from being hit by a truck..

Cheers!

[think_too_mut]

A car accident with you in a coma and evacuation to Singapore for world class brain surgery is estimated at about $150k. (I generally get things done in Thailand - but Singapore is still one step up).

Another case; you are in a coma/knocked out and family wants you home to US for best treatment and to be at your side. If dedicated ambulance plane needed that is also about $150k for the flight only.

Those big things one would probably never need are usualy included in the insurance policy.

Check what they give for tonsils, sinuses, venes, pregnancy, appendix operation, regular checkups...something one is more likely to need. Or dental services.

[george]

Here is a good expat insurance:

http://insurance.thaivisa.com

[Steve2UK]

I'm re-posting here a question that arose in a general "Cost of living" thread - hoping that it'll get more specific attention.

Being 55, a single male and not looking for family cover puts me in the category where I can seriously consider opting for self-insurance - i.e. maintain a reserve to deal with the more likely general medical treatment I can reasonably expect to need. Obviously, I recognise that dealing with a very complex or catastrophic condition is a very different matter.

So far, my assumption has tended to be that I would get myself back to the UK and be able to use the state NHS (free) healthcare scheme for anything that major (for sure - not that simple in the event of a sudden, urgent emergency). In any case, it's looking more and more like I may be excluded from the NHS system after I am not resident in the UK for x number of years.

I'm interested to know if health insurance could be available to me in Thailand that would exclude the generally minor stuff which I would "cover" myself and would therefore be restricted to the major "catastrophic" (hopefully much less likely) stuff. Just about all of what I see when I research ways of limiting the premium cost seems to be structured around limiting the cover to minor treatments rather than excluding them. What I'm looking for is the opposite of that.

Does anyone know of schemes that can be tailor-made in this way and maybe which would exclude a pre-existing condition but, for example, still provide cover for treating severe injury or some serious new condition unrelated to a pre-existing one? I know that the premium can be reduced by accepting a very large excess but, taking the GoodHealth example, even accepting a $5,000 excess doesn't make much of a dent in the premium for cover that includes a chronic condition - yet the advertised cover still includes a lot of minor stuff that I don't want to cover and quite a few items that I don't need to cover (e.g. pregnancy!).

[Thaiquila]

To the OP, in your case, I would seriously consider buying the insurance.

You are healthy and not so young, not so old.

You will get a reasonable rate and you will have no exclusions for pre existing conditions.

Should you later develop an expensive chronic condition, then it will be too late to buy insurance that will cover it if you fail to buy it now.

If it turns out you never need to see a doctor and have "wasted" the money, I can think of worse wastes of money.

[cclub75]

I'm interested to know if health insurance could be available to me in Thailand that would exclude the generally minor stuff which I would "cover" myself and would therefore be restricted to the major "catastrophic" (hopefully much less likely) stuff. Just about all of what I see when I research ways of limiting the premium cost seems to be structured around limiting the cover to minor treatments rather than excluding them. What I'm looking for is the opposite of that.

Easy. Make your choice regarding the "deductible".

I use IHI (now a subsidiary of BUPA), a danish company.

I'm young and healthy. It means I need a cover but for big risks. I don't care to pay small amounts for hospital, doc, medecine etc.

So I took a deductible of 2000 euros... Until 2000 euros expenditures, they don't cover me.

www.ihi.com

[Orion76]

For medical costs incurred in Thailand you don't really need insurance if you have some financial reserves, but it can be expensive if you want to be comfortable when you are ill or injured. For a private room in Bumrungrad with some medicine and some tests but without surgery your bill will be about 100,000bht per week, and you can end up there simply for eating in the wrong restaurant at the wrong time and a million other silly things you've never heard of.

I do maintain my health insurance in my home country because:

If you need an organ transplant don't expect to be put on the waiting list here being a foreigner.

If you are terminally ill then you may not be able to spend your last months in your home country with your family while you are waiting for the end because your Thai insurance won't cover your overseas hospital.

If you have a serious accident and get brain damage and need to learn to walk and talk again do you want a Thai teach you how to speak again? The speech therapist in your home country won't be covered.

You may have lived healthy all your life but some drunk Thai can hospitalize you for 6 months with his pick up truck and leave you with permanent injuries in the blink of an eye.

If I would not have the ability to maintain my health insurance in my home country I would not bother getting insured in Thailand though.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Orion76

[Thaiquila]

Something to consider: I have read that if you end up in a Thai ER and there is no insurance card on you and nobody you can contact to insure payment, you might be treated, but treated in a very poor way that is likely to result in sad results. What if you are totally unconscious and you can't help them to tell you how you are going to pay?

[Steve2UK]

Something to consider: I have read that if you end up in a Thai ER and there is no insurance card on you and nobody you can contact to insure payment, you might be treated, but treated in a very poor way that is likely to result in sad results. What if you are totally unconscious and you can't help them to tell you how you are going to pay?

Definitely a good point and I have been thinking about it - i.e. in terms of making sure that I would have something on me to provide that means of contacting someone who could confirm my ability to pay - e.g. a lawyer in Thailand who would have Power of Attorney to access my funds. And, sure, I freely admit I'm far from confident yet that that set-up would be satisfactory - which is why I'm still exploring all the options.

Similarly, Orion76 makes very good points. Always a tough call to know where to draw the line on what we insure against. All insurance is a bet - we bet the insurance company that we will have a problem and they bet us that we won't. I guess I'm just looking for the best odds for my bet......... So far, I've been leaning towards what Orion76 says at the end of his post.

[LoveDaBlues]

http://www.bupathailand.com/personal.asp

Can anyone get the .pdf file to download which appears on the page above? The link is 'table of benefits' and appears in red about 2/3 of the way down on the right.

Still doing my research (slowly) on health insurance and really need to see this table.

Some good advice here. Right now I'm 'gambling' that nothing really bad will happen in the near future. I've decided for me this is stupid and I need to get insured soon.

Edited February 18, 2006 by LoveDaBlues

[JohnC]

I have managed to download the table of benefits as I am also interested in insurance, I will try and send it to you but make sure you have adobe installed as it does not convert to word.

[N&M]

I have family insurance with a french company here. The guy who runs it is very accomodating and helpfull every time no matter for what.

It does not cover small general things or outpatients costs, but certainly major problems and even if not major, but admission is required etc.

We are covered no matter what happens and for how long the treatment is required for full cost and direct payment. We are covered for 2 adults and 2 kids for around 21,000b per quarter.

What I liked beside the price, was that it was explained that if anything major should happen to any one of us, then the treatment is fully covered even if it goes on for years, as in cancer etc.

What I am not sure about is the medical evacuation deal. If something major cropped up, I might prefer to be sent back home for expert treatment rather than here in Los. But I am not sure if this is possible as medical evacution usually means to your current home country I think, so I would presume they would opt for Thailand.

[LoveDaBlues]

Should have included my email in the previous post, sorry. It is [email protected]

Still waiting on that .pdf file if anyone can help.

N&M; is there a web site for the French company?

[N&M]

No idea, but I can send you their email if interested

[LoveDaBlues]

Post their name and email.....should be able to go from there. Thanks.

[Guest endure]

Post their name and email.....should be able to go from there. Thanks.

Me too please...

[LoveDaBlues]

personal_table_of_benefits.pdfOkay a TV member sent me the .pdf file. I'm going to attach it. Under 'Surgical Fee' the max pay is 70,000 baht for the 'Diamond' plan. Am I reading this right? 70,000 baht surely won't cover an extensive surgery will it?

I don't know much about insurance maybe I'm reading this wrong.

[Orion76]

personal_table_of_benefits.pdfOkay a TV member sent me the .pdf file. I'm going to attach it. Under 'Surgical Fee' the max pay is 70,000 baht for the 'Diamond' plan. Am I reading this right? 70,000 baht surely won't cover an extensive surgery will it?

I don't know much about insurance maybe I'm reading this wrong.

The 70,000 is probably just the surgery fee excluding your bed, food and medicine for which the maximums are listed in the other columns. 70,000 should cover most basic surgeries but long complicated surgeries like a multiple bypass may cost a bit more.

Also note transplants are not included.

This is one that would bother me:

BUPA Health Insurance will cover you for loss of life, loss of sight, hearing and speech and dismemberment arising from injury due to external causes. However you will not

be covered for losses arising from the following :-

- Bacterial infections.

If you're going to die or lose a limb then bacterial infection will be a very likely cause.

A friend of mine was bitten by a soi dog once, he went and got all his injections right away. A few days later he developed 40c fever and his ancle was swollen bigger than his thigh. Went to Bumrungrad in an ambulance and turned out he was infected with an aggressive flesh eating bacteria that appeared resistant to all anti biotics they tried. He went into surgery to have a large piece of his shin removed in an attempt to excise the infected area, they had to repeat this procedure 3 more times and had tried 5 different IV anti-biotics before they got the infection under control. They remove a patch of about 9" x 3" of tissue from his skin, he showed me the wound and it must have been about an inch deep. Before the 4th surgery they told him "we'll try one more time and if it doesn't work we'll probably have to amputate your leg below the knee". Luckily for him the 4th time worked and after 2 weeks in Bumrungrad he was ready to be repatriated to his home country for a tissue transplant from his thigh to his shin.

Moral of the story is he could have died or lost his leg due to this bacterial infection and BUPA wouldn't have covered it, and getting bitten by a soi dog in Thailand is just about the most likely unavoidable accident that could happen to you. Not to mention the likelyhood of catching anti biotic resistant bacteria in the hospital while you are being treated for something else. But that's probably why they don't cover it, bad for business

[Orion76]

Or how about this clause: no coverage for injuries arising from "Taking part in a brawl."

What if your involvement was involuntary?

[Anon999]

I've been researching this topic too and have found that Interglobal are the best in terms of cover and plans. They have 4 plans and various discounts plus no claims discounts of up to 20%.

Try looking at:- http://www.interglobalpmi.com/index.php?page_id=23

You can get cover from Interglobal from most places they are international with offices in New Zealand, Japan, Thailand, Indonesia, Middle East and the UK.

InterGlobal (Thailand)

IAG (Thailand) Ltd

24th Floor

Thanapoom Tower

1550 New Petchburi Road

BANGKOK 10400

Tel: +66 (2)207 0266 Exts: 380/385

Fax +66 (2)207 0584/0575

eMail: [email protected]

Also Norwich Union do Expats Health cover too which is competitive.

If someone unearths any better plans then please post details!

Edited February 20, 2006 by Anon999

[LoveDaBlues]

After a lot of searching I think I've found the best health insurance (for me). My goal is to keep premium low thru paying a high deductible yet have good coverage in case of a 'major' accident/illness. I believe the plan (which I have attached) meets those goals for me.

My premium will be $677 with a deductible of $2,500. I'm 49.

All comments negative/positive/whatever with regards to this insurance are welcome.

BTW, their URL is listed in the attachment and they offer different plans.

As Anon999 said if anyone finds a plan they like please post.

MultinationalEconomyBrochure2005.pdf

[Anon999]

One thing you have to be careful about is the payment method if you need treatment. It needs to be a Direct Payment plan, unless you want to wait to get reimbursed after you have finished paying what could be a lot a fees.

I'm also getting a qoute from the Pacific Prime Int'l people but not with a $2,500 excess. Will post the outcome.

The following 2 brokers in BBK have been recommended to me by Bangkok International Hospital. I'm trying them too.

1) Jerome Kelly (Lawton Asia) at [email protected]

2) Stephen Boush (TieCare) at [email protected]

Best of luck, maybe we will all end up will different insurers due to individual circumstances and needs.

Edited February 21, 2006 by Anon999

[LoveDaBlues]

With a Direct Payment plan.....does that mean the insurance company pays the hospital directly and you never pay any bills?

This is the way my insurance in the past has always worked. I didn't realize there was a different method of pay. What would an insured person do if he had to pay an enormous hospital bill(s) BEFORE the insurance company would reimburse him? Wacky.

The biggest medical bill I ever had was for surgery on my hand. Cost $7,200 USD. I just showed my insurance card one time and all the bills were paid by my insurance company. I ended up paying some small co-pays that amounted to around $200.

Edit: I just read thru the attached brochure and for payment method you are responsible to mail them the bills and they pay. If you have been required to pay some fees just mail them the paid receipts. Sounds simple enough although it was so easy in the states when you just showed an insurance card and the hospital mailed bills directly to the insurance company.

Edited February 22, 2006 by LoveDaBlues

[think_too_mut]

Good insurance would be 600-700US$ per month, even if it covers Thailand only. Insurance of that amount per year gives I don't know what.

Mine is with Cigna Expat Insurance, it's over 1000US$ per month, covers all countries in the world although we are 2 in Thailand and 1 in Japan. It's similar to the most expensive plan with GoodHealth.

Services and % of participation, zero excess:

AMBULANCE - GROUND AND AIR 0%

ACUPUNCTURE 0%

ADULT PREVENTIVE: ADULT ROUTINE IMMUNIZATIONS 0%

ADULT PREVENTIVE: ROUTINE PHYSICAL EXAM 0%

CANCER SCREENING: ROUTINE LEAD, MAMMOGRAM, PAP, PSA, COLORECTAL SCREENING 0%

CARDIAC THERAPY 0% CHEMOTHERAPY & RADIATION - INPATIENT & OUTPATIENT 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: AGE 1 THRU 6 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: AGE 7 THRU 17 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: BIRTH TO AGE 1 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE IMMUNIZATIONS: DELAWARE MANDATED 0%

CHIROPRACTOR 0%

DENTAL: BASIC RESTORATIVE, ENDODONTICS, PERIODONTICS, ORAL SURGERY 20%

DENTAL: DIAGNOSTIC GENERAL/PREVENTIVE, X-RAYS 0%

DENTAL: MAJOR RESTORATIVE, PROSTHODONTICS 50%

DENTAL: ORTHODONTICS 50%

DIAGNOSTIC X-RAY 0%

DIAGNOSTIC LAB 0%

DIALYSIS 0%

DURABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT 0%

HOME HEALTH CARE 0%

HOSPICE 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - INPATIENT ROOM & BOARD, ANCILLARIES 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT ACCIDENT 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT SICKNESS 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT SURGERY, BIRTHING CENTER 0%

INFERTILITY 0%

INFUSION THERAPY 0%

MEDICAL - PHYSICIAN VISIT/ATTENDANCE 0%

NEWBORN - ROUTINE NURSERY 0%

ORTHOTICS 0%

PRE-ADMISSION TESTING 0%

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS 0%

PROSTHETICS 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - INPATIENT PHYSICIAN ATTENDANCE 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - INPATIENT ROOM & BOARD, ANCILLARIES 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - OUTPATIENT TREATMENT 0%

SKILLED NURSING FACILITY 0%

SURGERY/ANESTHESIA 0%

THERAPY: OCCUPATIONAL, PHYSICAL, SPEECH, PHYSIOTHERAPY 0%

TMJ 0%

VISITING NURSE 0%

Edited February 22, 2006 by think_too_mut

[Anon999]

Good insurance would be 600-700US$ per month, even if it covers Thailand only. Insurance of that amount per year gives I don't know what.

Mine is with Cigna Expat Insurance, it's over 1000US$ per month, covers all countries in the world although we are 2 in Thailand and 1 in Japan. It's similar to the most expensive plan with GoodHealth.

Services and % of participation, zero excess:

AMBULANCE - GROUND AND AIR 0%

ACUPUNCTURE 0%

ADULT PREVENTIVE: ADULT ROUTINE IMMUNIZATIONS 0%

ADULT PREVENTIVE: ROUTINE PHYSICAL EXAM 0%

CANCER SCREENING: ROUTINE LEAD, MAMMOGRAM, PAP, PSA, COLORECTAL SCREENING 0%

CARDIAC THERAPY 0% CHEMOTHERAPY & RADIATION - INPATIENT & OUTPATIENT 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: AGE 1 THRU 6 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: AGE 7 THRU 17 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE CARE: BIRTH TO AGE 1 0%

CHILD PREVENTIVE IMMUNIZATIONS: DELAWARE MANDATED 0%

CHIROPRACTOR 0%

DENTAL: BASIC RESTORATIVE, ENDODONTICS, PERIODONTICS, ORAL SURGERY 20%

DENTAL: DIAGNOSTIC GENERAL/PREVENTIVE, X-RAYS 0%

DENTAL: MAJOR RESTORATIVE, PROSTHODONTICS 50%

DENTAL: ORTHODONTICS 50%

DIAGNOSTIC X-RAY 0%

DIAGNOSTIC LAB 0%

DIALYSIS 0%

DURABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT 0%

HOME HEALTH CARE 0%

HOSPICE 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - INPATIENT ROOM & BOARD, ANCILLARIES 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT ACCIDENT 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT SICKNESS 0%

HOSPITAL/FACILITY - OUTPATIENT SURGERY, BIRTHING CENTER 0%

INFERTILITY 0%

INFUSION THERAPY 0%

MEDICAL - PHYSICIAN VISIT/ATTENDANCE 0%

NEWBORN - ROUTINE NURSERY 0%

ORTHOTICS 0%

PRE-ADMISSION TESTING 0%

PRESCRIPTION DRUGS 0%

PROSTHETICS 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - INPATIENT PHYSICIAN ATTENDANCE 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - INPATIENT ROOM & BOARD, ANCILLARIES 0%

PSYCH/ALCOHOL/DRUG - OUTPATIENT TREATMENT 0%

SKILLED NURSING FACILITY 0%

SURGERY/ANESTHESIA 0%

THERAPY: OCCUPATIONAL, PHYSICAL, SPEECH, PHYSIOTHERAPY 0%

TMJ 0%

VISITING NURSE 0%

I've just got a quote from Lawton Asia, see previous post for email and it's very competitive with a $250 excess it's even better. It includes $2 million annual limit and emergency dental treatment too for International cover that is excluding North America.

The figure I have, with the $250 excess, is $2,600/ann including Thai taxes. As I'm older than 49 my figures are higher. These figures are just for me!

I'll have the premiums to cover out-patient care tomorrow.

If you don't want to ask Lawton Asia you can look at www.premier-ih.com and they do tailored quotes.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Anon999

[TBWG]

After a lot of searching I think I've found the best health insurance (for me). My goal is to keep premium low thru paying a high deductible yet have good coverage in case of a 'major' accident/illness. I believe the plan (which I have attached) meets those goals for me.

My premium will be $677 with a deductible of $2,500. I'm 49.

All comments negative/positive/whatever with regards to this insurance are welcome.

BTW, their URL is listed in the attachment and they offer different plans.

As Anon999 said if anyone finds a plan they like please post.

MultinationalEconomyBrochure2005.pdf

Hi LDB

Ignoring the medical angle of the above plan, they at least give you the option of opting out of life insurance coverage, unlike some who include it automatically BUPA for instance.

Many people already have more than adequate life coverage so why pay for something you don't need.

TBWG

[think_too_mut]

I've just got a quote from Lawton Asia, see previous post for email and it's very competitive with a $250 excess it's even better.

You can't squeeze a liquid.

That may work out for a single young and healthy person, just to be covered in case of a major breakdown.

For a family with kids, over 200US$ per month insurance and still 250US$ excess probably mean nothing is ever refunded.

I have never paid more than 2K at BKK Pattaya hospital.

Last time, went 6 times for neck electrode treatment + stretching and it was 1100B per session. Even if they billed it a s a single unit it would not reach 10K.

[LoveDaBlues]

After a lot of searching I think I've found the best health insurance (for me). My goal is to keep premium low thru paying a high deductible yet have good coverage in case of a 'major' accident/illness. I believe the plan (which I have attached) meets those goals for me.

My premium will be $677 with a deductible of $2,500. I'm 49.

All comments negative/positive/whatever with regards to this insurance are welcome.

BTW, their URL is listed in the attachment and they offer different plans.

As Anon999 said if anyone finds a plan they like please post.

MultinationalEconomyBrochure2005.pdf

Hi LDB

Ignoring the medical angle of the above plan, they at least give you the option of opting out of life insurance coverage, unlike some who include it automatically BUPA for instance.

Many people already have more than adequate life coverage so why pay for something you don't need.

TBWG

Exactly. I've pretty much ruled out BUPA for a number of reasons.