Ex-Thai Premier Abhisit Slams 'political' Protest Murder Charge

[Thai at Heart]

The TVF bi@#%*&g match continues again

dems to to the left, ptp to the right.

"Abhisit slams charg as political" he is starting to sound like his nemesis.

If you can't stand the heat flee the country.

Well the word "slams", is a bit of editorial license.

[rubl]

Well I differ from you - The troops started firing on protesters from 3.50pm on the 10th. Read the live timeline here

http://asiapacific.a...age-1/#comments

I'm not going to chang e any minds on this forum thats for sure.

Many interesting posts there and usefull links. UDD leaders showing weapons seized from army, police shaking hands with protesters and promise to withdraw within 20 minutes, and of course some foreign newsreports

"Demonstrators clash with police in Bangkok.

Thai troops fired rubber bullets and teargas at thousands of demonstrators, who fought back with guns, grenades and petrol bombs in riots that killed at least 15 people in Bangkok's worst political violence in 18 years."

http://www.guardian....gkok-protesters

"The situation seemed getting out of control as the "red-shirts" protesters and security forces started to exchange fire and throw grenades at Khokwua intersection, 700m away from Phan Fah Bridge, at about 8:10 p.m."

http://news.xinhuane.../c_13245738.htm

Anyway this topic is not on 'peaceful protesters' retaliating with grenades, but on k. Abhisit slamming the charge he'll face next week as political. The charge for murder of the taxi driver who run out of the house to see who was shooting

You didn't even look at the timescales did you? You realise the stories are from AFP and not even related to the timescales I was talking about so degrees of violence by that time were completely different but then again perhaps you did know about the time differences and just wanted to push your sarcastic "peaceful protester" angle. So long as you got that in everybody goes back on topic right? Is that how its done here?

"Is that how its done here?" Somehow I think your style suggests that you should be able to answer your own question.

Timescales? You mean those grenade attacks which we had in March 2010 already?

Anyway time for the OP with k. Abhisit slams as political the charge for murder he'll come to hear next week. The murder of the taxi driver who (oh irony) run into a bullet

[nurofiend]

To neuro

I can hear that 100 ton elephant in the corner of the room. Unless there is a bit of paper with sutheps name on it, who ordered what?

i thought suthep admitted ordering the live fire zone?

i think the charge is based on "giving orders that led to the death of others with intent", as said by the DSI chief.

which could be translated as he gave the live fire zone order as head of the cres, and that led to the death of others... the question is of the intent i suppose, which would be hard to prove whether true or not.

i have no belief that they will be convicted for this whatsoever.

Me neither. he ordered the allowance to use live rounds. Every copper in the country has a gun. since when does a soldier need legal permission to use his gun on home soil anyway, to prevent law breaking.

Ordering the permission to use live rounds means nothing. He didn't command the operation minute by minute.

i would strongly disagree that ordering the permission to use live rounds 'means nothing'

the main reason i think there will be no conviction is because there will be a serious lack of irrefutable evidence to prove that the army killed with intent, that however doesn't make it untrue.

however he and suthep must take at least some responsibility that the deaths from april 10th and onwards were as a result of their declaration of an SOE and later the live fire zones... of course there were also aggressors on the other side, but he has to take at least some culpability, which he has so far refused to do.

it's like his quote, to paraphrase "i cannot believe that a government is blaming the protestors for the violence committed on them, i never thought i would see the day" something along those lines.

this was obviously pre-2010 and he wasn't talking about the red shirts.

Edited December 7, 2012 by nurofiend

[rubl]

The TVF bi@#%*&g match continues again

dems to to the left, ptp to the right.

"Abhisit slams charg as political" he is starting to sound like his nemesis.

If you can't stand the heat flee the country.

You mean "don't take it laying down, but fight like a gentleman, see you in court" ? That's exactly what k. Abhisit seems to be doing, wouldn't you say ?

[nurofiend]

Do the pro-reds on this thread really believe this is being done in the name of justice?

i get lumped in as being pro-red so often here that i may as well answer, well more like answer with a question, do the pro-yellows really believe that the thaksin land charge was really done in the name of justice?

[Thai at Heart]

To bhb.

The Army were permitted to use in self defence or to fire in the air. Who is provably guilty of not sticking to the rules?

George

Posted April 10, 2010 at 7:58 PM

3:55PM Saturday afternoon April 11th in Bangkok: ThaiPBS Reporter at scene states that soldiers at firing guns into the air (from video though the guns are horizontal)………..

anthapan

Posted April 10, 2010 at 8:06 PM

From red stage at Rajaprasong Natthawut announcing that the army is using M-16 rifles to disperse crowds at Pan Fa, claims many injuries.

Now showing images of people injured, holding up bullets for cameras.

Would have thought that was provable. Don't forget at the time live fire by the army had / was being denied but there were casualties. So the Army are not working to their own stated MO.

The Army are not on trial here though, thats already been stated. As you say unless it is provable it's going to be hard to pin down an army OIC. However causality, if there is such a word can be pinned on the CRES for ordering the bringing live bullets to what was at the beginning a peaceful demo and then using them.

There is no such thing as a peaceful demo in this country then or now.

The moment a court decides you have blocked a public highway long enough, it should be time to move on for all sides, yellow, red or any other side.

They were armed, the yellows before were armed, 2 Weeks ago, those guys were going to be armed, no doubt.

Peaceful protest is reserved for nurses and train driver unions. All sides have come looking for a fight for ever.

It cannot be that a group brings the centre of bangkok to a stand still for months. Not allowed in my book. everyone has to learn what is and is not acceptable, and the yellows set a precedent that the reds followed.

Go sit in the rain in lumpini, no tents, no generators, no carts for food no stage. People go to Glastonbury and go through greater hardship than these so called lovers of their country.

Someone should take that bit of rachadpisek that his wife bought and concrete it and turn it into protestors monument. No roof,.no shade.

Show some real balls and show how much you care instead of turning a part of a massive city into your own private playground holding the country to ransom. That goes for all sides.

Give it a week, defy the court order, 15 days in the clink. Damage anything, anyone leaving is charged with criminal damage.

Go beyond that and kill,.maim, anyone left inside is on the hook for compensation. Get arrested whilst central world is going up in smoke, leaders split 50% of damages, anyonbe arrested pro rata.

shut down svb, protesters pay the damages to the airlines.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcera....

Edited December 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

Do the pro-reds on this thread really believe this is being done in the name of justice?

i get lumped in as being pro-red so often here that i may as well answer, well more like answer with a question, do the pro-yellows really believe that the thaksin land charge was really done in the name of justice?

Since I own a few yellow shirts (and three pink, one green, one blue) may I answer this question? I must admit it's just my opinion, not a group statement, I'm just a simple Dutch uncle

The 'land' case against k. Thaksin may have been the easiest (or clearest) case against him. Similarly the DSI has been investigating the easy cases of those 92 deaths. The case k. Abhisit will be charged for murder was an easy case in the sense that it was clear the taxi driver had been shot by the army. The verdict by the criminal court 'run out of house to see who was shooting and got caught in volley of gunfire' doesn't really indicate that this was a premeditated murder, more like a very unfortunate accident. Mind you this was in the last days of the crackdown. Anyone in the inner zone should have known to stay away from gunfire, especially a red-shirt taxi driver

[bhb]

Well I differ from you - The troops started firing on protesters from 3.50pm on the 10th. Read the live timeline here

http://asiapacific.a...age-1/#comments

I'm not going to chang e any minds on this forum thats for sure.

Many interesting posts there and usefull links. UDD leaders showing weapons seized from army, police shaking hands with protesters and promise to withdraw within 20 minutes, and of course some foreign newsreports

"Demonstrators clash with police in Bangkok.

Thai troops fired rubber bullets and teargas at thousands of demonstrators, who fought back with guns, grenades and petrol bombs in riots that killed at least 15 people in Bangkok's worst political violence in 18 years."

http://www.guardian....gkok-protesters

"The situation seemed getting out of control as the "red-shirts" protesters and security forces started to exchange fire and throw grenades at Khokwua intersection, 700m away from Phan Fah Bridge, at about 8:10 p.m."

http://news.xinhuane.../c_13245738.htm

Anyway this topic is not on 'peaceful protesters' retaliating with grenades, but on k. Abhisit slamming the charge he'll face next week as political. The charge for murder of the taxi driver who run out of the house to see who was shooting

You didn't even look at the timescales did you? You realise the stories are from AFP and not even related to the timescales I was talking about so degrees of violence by that time were completely different but then again perhaps you did know about the time differences and just wanted to push your sarcastic "peaceful protester" angle. So long as you got that in everybody goes back on topic right? Is that how its done here?

"Is that how its done here?" Somehow I think your style suggests that you should be able to answer your own question.

Timescales? You mean those grenade attacks which we had in March 2010 already?

Anyway time for the OP with k. Abhisit slams as political the charge for murder he'll come to hear next week. The murder of the taxi driver who (oh irony) run into a bullet

Yes all those grenade attacks and no arrests or injuries? Strange that, you'd have thought someone was setting up some shock and awe to get the mindset right for the declaration of a Emergency Decree and the alleged protection from facing charges that brings and just two days before you plan a crackdown using live ammunition. Bit of a coincidence, that.

[bhb]

To bhb.

The Army were permitted to use in self defence or to fire in the air. Who is provably guilty of not sticking to the rules?

George

Posted April 10, 2010 at 7:58 PM

3:55PM Saturday afternoon April 11th in Bangkok: ThaiPBS Reporter at scene states that soldiers at firing guns into the air (from video though the guns are horizontal)………..

anthapan

Posted April 10, 2010 at 8:06 PM

From red stage at Rajaprasong Natthawut announcing that the army is using M-16 rifles to disperse crowds at Pan Fa, claims many injuries.

Now showing images of people injured, holding up bullets for cameras.

Would have thought that was provable. Don't forget at the time live fire by the army had / was being denied but there were casualties. So the Army are not working to their own stated MO.

The Army are not on trial here though, thats already been stated. As you say unless it is provable it's going to be hard to pin down an army OIC. However causality, if there is such a word can be pinned on the CRES for ordering the bringing live bullets to what was at the beginning a peaceful demo and then using them.

There is no such thing as a peaceful demo in this country then or now.

The moment a court decides you have blocked a public highway long enough, it should be time to move on for all sides, yellow, red or any other side.

They were armed, the yellows before were armed, 2 Weeks ago, those guys were going to be armed, no doubt.

Peaceful protest is reserved for nurses and train driver unions. All sides have come looking for a fight for ever.

It cannot be that a group brings the centre of bangkok to a stand still for months. Not allowed in my book. everyone has to learn what is and is not acceptable, and the yellows set a precedent that the reds followed.

Go sit in the rain in lumpini, no tents, no generators, no carts for food no stage. People go to Glastonbury and go through greater hardship than these so called lovers of their country.

Someone should take that bit of rachadpisek that his wife bought and concrete it and turn it into protestors monument. No roof,.no shade.

Show some real balls and show how much you care instead of turning a part of a massive city into your own private playground holding the country to ransom. That goes for all sides.

Give it a week, defy the court order, 15 days in the clink. Damage anything, anyone leaving is charged with criminal damage.

Go beyond that and kill,.maim, anyone left inside is on the hook for compensation. Get arrested whilst central world is going up in smoke, leaders split 50% of damages, anyonbe arrested pro rata.

shut down svb, protesters pay the damages to the airlines.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcera....

Wouldn't like to get in the way of the shopping eh, bit inconvenient having to go past all those upcountry plebs on the way to Prada.

[Insight]

Do the pro-reds on this thread really believe this is being done in the name of justice?

i get lumped in as being pro-red so often here that i may as well answer, well more like answer with a question, do the pro-yellows really believe that the thaksin land charge was really done in the name of justice?

I do actually.

Do you think Thaksin is not guilty of this crime? Or any others he stands accused of?

But Abhisit is somehow guilty of murder...?

This is nothing but a silly tit-for-tat, but with very potentially serious consequences. Not that the main player cares.

[rubl]

You didn't even look at the timescales did you? You realise the stories are from AFP and not even related to the timescales I was talking about so degrees of violence by that time were completely different but then again perhaps you did know about the time differences and just wanted to push your sarcastic "peaceful protester" angle. So long as you got that in everybody goes back on topic right? Is that how its done here?

"Is that how its done here?" Somehow I think your style suggests that you should be able to answer your own question.

Timescales? You mean those grenade attacks which we had in March 2010 already?

Anyway time for the OP with k. Abhisit slams as political the charge for murder he'll come to hear next week. The murder of the taxi driver who (oh irony) run into a bullet

Yes all those grenade attacks and no arrests or injuries? Strange that, you'd have thought someone was setting up some shock and awe to get the mindset right for the declaration of a Emergency Decree and the alleged protection from facing charges that brings and just two days before you plan a crackdown using live ammunition. Bit of a coincidence, that.

There was one arrest, the chap who hit some ministry although he might have been aiming at a temple, allegedly that is. Bit of a coincidence really, I mean just like only non-red-shirts being hit by grenades.

[nurofiend]

Do the pro-reds on this thread really believe this is being done in the name of justice?

i get lumped in as being pro-red so often here that i may as well answer, well more like answer with a question, do the pro-yellows really believe that the thaksin land charge was really done in the name of justice?

I do actually.

Do you think Thaksin is not guilty of this crime? Or any others he stands accused of?

But Abhisit is somehow guilty of murder...?

This is nothing but a silly tit-for-tat, but with very potentially serious consequences. Not that the main player cares.

i don't, i think it was a charge to 'get at him' rather than in the name of 'honourable justice' and 'moral values'... just like the cooking show crime of the century against samak.

do i think thaksin was guilty of that 'terrible' crime, yes it seems so, but i don't think it was more than just something to get at him, rather than getting justice for the terrible deed itself.

yes, it is tit for tat.

Edited December 7, 2012 by nurofiend

[lemoncake]

Wouldn't like to get in the way of the shopping eh, bit inconvenient having to go past all those upcountry plebs on the way to Prada.

Yes and problem with that is what exactly???

If one wanted to shop at the Isaan market or be surrounded by "plebs"( your own term) one would stay in Isaan , no?!

Unless of course you have a problem with hard working people and their right to enjoy the money they made

[AleG]

Yes all those grenade attacks and no arrests or injuries? Strange that, you'd have thought someone was setting up some shock and awe to get the mindset right for the declaration of a Emergency Decree and the alleged protection from facing charges that brings and just two days before you plan a crackdown using live ammunition. Bit of a coincidence, that.

You have no idea of what went on, do you? Just parrot Red Shirt propaganda.

Fast google search to demostrate:

Thailand: 2 red-shirt security guards confess to bombing Bhum Jai Thai.

Thai terror suspect confesses to attacking Bangkok hotel

Police arrest 5 suspects in grenade attacks in Chiang Mai, Bangkok

Suspect in Thai explosion linked to ‘Red Shirt’ anti-government protest group

Man arrested for allegedly lobbing grenade at Bangkok Bank HQ

Sorry to pop your propaganda bubble.

[badgerbailey]

So when will the DSI charge Thaksin for the 2,500 people that were killed during the war on drugs several years ago?

Not forgetting Tai Bak

ThiS thread is about abhisit bleating and not taking responsibility, but since you raised this since these incidents there has been a military government and the dem government, neither brought charges for these against thaksin,

Ask yourself why

"Suthep and I will not bargain for this trial... Reconciliation should be based on truth and responsibility -- there is no reason to exchange that for an amnesty for people who corrupt this country," he said.

The words Suthep and truth don't go well together in the same sentence

[Thai at Heart]

To bhb.

Oh how little you understand me.

Prada is at least 600km away as i reside in isaan. I have worked in agriculture in Asia for nearly 20 years, and i sympathise desperately with the farmers of Thailand. I don't blame them for one second for supporting thaksin, because, the dems never gave them any chance at all.

However, i do know that thaksin and the red backers are trying to change this country in many ways for private and their general benefit. This is not a poor mans revolution, this is an attempt to change the status quo.

It was being pursued with sleight of hand for a period, but now it is personal, and it will come because the mindset of those who controlled business here cannot accept change.

If you knew what i know from having worked for companies owned by people who were at a time PM of this country, and sons of their s TRT cabinet members, you might do well to think what may happen if this hatred isn't put a stop to. As yet there is no end in sight. Many original TRT cronies are very concerned where this ends, and have taken a back seat on PTP.

I see no practical way for the old monied power brokers and generals to keep their power base in 10 years time. Thailand has changed.

But without a doubt, do i want to see a class war explode in Thailand? but it is close to going beyond that now because it is personal. The establishment has tried to destroy thaksin for their own reasons, and yet he still resonates.

If he destroys abhisit, he had no opposition. Do i like what abhisit stands for? Not particularly. Do i enjoy the role of the army in Thailand? No. But, the way forward is through moderate behaviour and reaction, our Thai will kill Thai. Just look at the crazy story on cathay pacific.

The yellows are as guilty as any. Sondi is a dangerous man indeed, as are arisman and jatuporn. But they are in reality opportunists trying to keep themselves relevant.

Someone has to put Thailand back on a democratic footing, and challenge thaksins largesse. Is abhisit the best guy? He's all they've got.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

Do the pro-reds on this thread really believe this is being done in the name of justice?

i get lumped in as being pro-red so often here that i may as well answer, well more like answer with a question, do the pro-yellows really believe that the thaksin land charge was really done in the name of justice?

I do actually.

Do you think Thaksin is not guilty of this crime? Or any others he stands accused of?

But Abhisit is somehow guilty of murder...?

This is nothing but a silly tit-for-tat, but with very potentially serious consequences. Not that the main player cares.

i don't, i think it was a charge to 'get at him' rather than in the name of 'honourable justice' and 'moral values'... just like the cooking show crime of the century against samak.

do i think thaksin was guilty of that 'terrible' crime, yes it seems so, but i don't think it was more than just something to get at him, rather than getting justice for the terrible deed itself.

yes, it is tit for tat.

The 'cooking show crime' was about being paid and lying about it. K. Samak had to stand down, but could have been re-elected as PM the next (or maybe even same?) day. Our man in Dubai found k. Samak a bit too independent and voted (figure of speech) for his brother-in-law k. Somchai. Now I never really looked into this, but who did really start the ball regarding the cooking show ?

BTW I still like the Economist article from their Dec. 8 print edition

http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21568000-former-prime-ministers-allies-concede-there-no-easy-way-get-him-home-whatever-happened

[cougar]

I think there's a deal going down here. We just have to wait. Not too long probably.

[Meetoo]

Well unless he was signing operational orders or making operational decisions why would you apportion blame to him?

If Abhisit or Suthep didn't like the resulting deaths from their orders why did they not call a halt then, not escalate the potentional for deaths by declaring "live fire zones" and assigning snipers?

Who is more culpable?

I still fail to see how so many can not comprehend the most obvious.

Order was given to clear out the mob.

Who ever was in charge of military on the ground athorized the use and issued live ammunition.

Military commander should be the one responsible even assuming someone had to be charged.

But this government is well aware that even if they so much as drop a hint to investigate the military, they will be overthrown on the same day.

Charging ex PM is a political ploy, which Ex PM has already stated to pass the bill to bring Thaksin back.

This ploy may and i have a feeling WILL backfire badly for PTP, because once the trial begins some high ranked military officials will be dragged into it and the consequences........, well i do not need to repeat myself

You may very well be quite right ... and I can only say .... were there not enough prior warnings given in the 4-5 months this went on for ...?? Why the blindness...?? Did the army just suddenly move in unexpectedly without NUMEROUS PRIOR NOTICES... ?? Did Abishit say ... ok you guys there is a taxi driver out there that I hate so you have to go out and eliminate him NOW...!! Or ok, just go out and shoot anybody in sight ?? .. Would this have been tolerated anywhere else in the world...?? Look at how all over the world these protests are quickly stopped , and yes with violence and deaths sometimes, BUT within days not months!! Jeeezz ... What is wrong in this picture...?? Are some people here just born stupid or is my suspiscion correct that you just wake up in the morning and overdose on stupid pills and spend the rest of your day saying nonsense here about Abishit being a murderer and other issues on other posts that equal the same stupidity ... OMG ... where is this world going with such intelligence ...?? Ouf... AND to actually compare him to a Hitler and what not...?? Are you for real ???... Really it is Time for what is suppose to be the Nostradamus and Mayan prophecies to happen to get rid of ALL and I don't want to elaborate on MY meaning of ALL...things in general are so sickening .. and unfortunatly it is happening all over the world right now ...! Ughhh !!

[Phatcharanan]

, but take a look at your own actions and man up and face the consequences.

Unlike your cowardly 'leader' living in Dubai huh?

[Meetoo]

Oh dear,

There is a massive difference between murdering an unarmed protestor, or in this case an unarmed bystander, and a few bruises while trying to force through a police line.

If however the police injured someone that was not a threat to them then they would be in the wrong and should be dealt with, but trying to compare the two just reeks of desperation and not a real grasp of the circumstances.

LOL, You really are a class act.

unarmed bystander in the middle of the mob

or but wait, it is ok to injury a few trying to break through the police line, but is not ok to kill armed ones trying to burn down the city

Perhaps it is time to say good bye and leave the discussion for people with more sanity

Awwwwww shucks, you make me blush, but I am a class act though.

As for him being a protestor, have you read the case and the circumstances?

As for burning down the city, is that what the journalists were doing, or the nurses, or the soldier shot and killed by other soldiers firing at him while he was riding to them to help, posing no immediate threat.

I have no issue with the army shooting armed men that were putting their life in immediate danger by the way, I do have a problem with unarmed people being murdered by them.

And I guess you have had so much experience in your life in controlling unruly mobs... Qudo's to you ma friend ... you're a super trooper then and know all the facts and angles huh??... And have had numerous adventures and experiences in this field to be able to firmly conclude this ... I admire you I must say !

[Phatcharanan]

Yes all those grenade attacks and no arrests or injuries? Strange that, you'd have thought someone was setting up some shock and awe to get the mindset right for the declaration of a Emergency Decree and the alleged protection from facing charges that brings and just two days before you plan a crackdown using live ammunition. Bit of a coincidence, that.

You have no idea of what went on, do you? Just parrot Red Shirt propaganda.

Fast google search to demostrate:

Thailand: 2 red-shirt security guards confess to bombing Bhum Jai Thai.

Thai terror suspect confesses to attacking Bangkok hotel

Police arrest 5 suspects in grenade attacks in Chiang Mai, Bangkok

Suspect in Thai explosion linked to ‘Red Shirt’ anti-government protest group

Man arrested for allegedly lobbing grenade at Bangkok Bank HQ

Sorry to pop your propaganda bubble.

LOL!

Any answer to that bhb?

[whybother]

Why is he responsible for a soldier breaking the rules of engagement?

This ladies and gents is what happens when the military is not under the complete control if the civilian government and judiciary.

Who is responsible for the soldiers conduct and implementayion of the rules of engagement? The commanding officers.

You reckon abhisit signed a shoot to kill policy? Never

But who signed an order allowing the troops to carry and use live ammunition to two areas of peaceful demonstration, when no-one had been shot or killed up until that point on the 10th April? Suthep. Acting as Abhisits agent in charge of CRES.

Do you mean after the red shirts had stormed parliament and Thaicom using molotov cocktails?

Lucky they were armed on April 10. Can you imagine how many soldiers would have been killed if the armed red shirts hadn't had the army shooting back at them? They had already blown up the Colonel.

[whybother]

Do you not see that the escalation of potential violence was planted by this action and then burst forth once the supposed international standards of crowd control were disregarded entirely by the troops . The violence didn't start at the time of the killing of Romklao, troops had been firing on civilians since late afternoon and they weren't blanks despite the lies put out at the time by the government and the army.

So yes, if as the rules of engagement in self defense were broken Suthep and ultimately Abhisit are responsible. They were responsible for the pressure on the army to carry out the operation regardless of the operation not being able to finish in daylight and therefore the resulting mayhem.

It was the red shirts that escalated at every point.

First, they talked about bringing bottles to fill with petrol to burn the city.

There first couple of protests were peaceful.

After their protest was ignored, they collected blood and spread it around parliament and Abhisit's house.

Then when that was ignored, they went on there mobile rallies.

Then they went and confronted the troops that were stationed away from the protest areas. The troops withdrew back to their barracks.

When the government continued to let them do what they want (how dare they let protesters protest), they decided to occupy Ratchaprasong.

When there was no crackdown by the government, the red shirts decided to head to parliament and storm it forcing MPs to flee over the back fences. (how dare the red shirts storm parliament. Only the yellow shirts do that).

Storming parliament wasn't enough. They decided to storm Thaicom as well. But this time they used molotov cocktails and overran the army. The tear gas and water cannons were useless in stopping them.

That was when the government decided the protests needed to be dispersed. Videos show the red shirts dancing and the army just standing there. No video of the army attacking the protesters.

Then all hell breaks loose. Witnesses on site don't know where the first shots come from.

Apparently, a protester is the first killed, but it wasn't near the army and there is no evidence that the army killed him.

A grenade blows up the commanding colonel. Mysterious "men in black" turn up, shooting at the soldiers. Most of the video of the soldiers is of them retreating.

The following days, the red shirts move to the Ratchaprasong area. Under Seh Daeng (supposedly), they set up petrol soaked bamboo and tyre barricades encircling the Ratchaprasong area. (Rama IV. Ratchapraprop, MBK intersection)

But that's not good enough for the red shirts. They don't fight the army from behind the barricades that they have set up. They actually go out further along Sathorn and on the other side into the Ratchaprarop area and set up burning tyre barricades and shoot/throw things at the soldiers.

Every step of the way, the red shirts put the pressure on the government. Every time they were ignored, they would increase the pressure. When the government decided it was time to shut down the protest, the red shirts brought out their militia.

So, if anyone was escalating to violence, it could ONLY have been the red shirts.

[whybother]

Issuing live rounds when you have told the public that you haven't done such a thing is extremely relevant. Lying about when you signed an order for 2 years (claiming not signed until the 13th April 2010 as Suthep did in this case) is doubly extremely relevant when you claim "your" troops didn't shoot anybody and it was the red/black shirts killing each other. Or have I missed some point.

Your last sentence is beyond belief by the way. Did you not know that the troops started firing at the protesters first in the late afternoon as reportedby foreign tv and news reporters.

Where were they firing at protesters that early in proceedings? A lot of reports showed the red shirts dancing into the early evening with the soldiers standing by doing nothing.

[whybother]

Oh dear,

There is a massive difference between murdering an unarmed protestor, or in this case an unarmed bystander, and a few bruises while trying to force through a police line.

If however the police injured someone that was not a threat to them then they would be in the wrong and should be dealt with, but trying to compare the two just reeks of desperation and not a real grasp of the circumstances.

Do you mean an unarmed bystander, like the one that was standing at a train station and got killed by a grenade?

[waza]

Issuing live rounds when you have told the public that you haven't done such a thing is extremely relevant. Lying about when you signed an order for 2 years (claiming not signed until the 13th April 2010 as Suthep did in this case) is doubly extremely relevant when you claim "your" troops didn't shoot anybody and it was the red/black shirts killing each other. Or have I missed some point.

Your last sentence is beyond belief by the way. Did you not know that the troops started firing at the protesters first in the late afternoon as reportedby foreign tv and news reporters.

Where were they firing at protesters that early in proceedings? A lot of reports showed the red shirts dancing into the early evening with the soldiers standing by doing nothing.

Good to see the truth finally comes out

"so tomorrow,the police and the military fight" clearly, the word fight indicates that the red shirt started the war. The late Ace Preston (as told to him from a Redshirt Protestor}

[Hugo6]

I think the further this hatchet job goes, the more self-inflicted damage that PTP will bring on itself. All but the most extremist red sympathisers know that Abhisit on a murder charge is just silly, and the longer it goes on, the more damage it will do to the credence of all other cases that may be pursued.

It also could potentially reflect badly on Thaksin: if Abhisit defiantly stands his ground and faces up to charges that potentially could result in a death penalty, rather than cowardly fleeing off overseas or rushing into making some sort of whitewash pact, it could turn Abhisit into some sort of courageous victim in all this and give him the moral high ground.

youre dreaming

its about time he faced charges

the man was responsible as head of the government and he sent out snipers

it was a stupid irresponsible move at the time and 3 years doesnt change that

i love this denial

But Abhisit denied the accusation, saying the pair's "honest intention" was to "restore peace and order without a crackdown".

yeah right. they just happen to take out the rebel general and the next day begin a 6 day, deadly & bloody crackdown

as if that wasnt not planned. abhisit must think everybodys a moron.

Since making rather ridiculous statements is your argument, please provide any proof or support that he sent out snipers?

I guess it was the soi dogs who started the fires as well

talk about ridiculous.

i think half or more of the fan-boys here dont read the news

[waza]

Thaksin has some interesting idea on who started the fires...........

TONY JONES: Amongst the peaceful Red Shirt demonstrators there was a hard-core of armed militants. The same men who evidently set fire to dozens of buildings in Bangkok...

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: No... I think..

TONY JONES: and the other places after the army moved in to break up the demonstration. Who were these men? Who do you say they were?

THAKSIN SHINAWATRA: If you look at it, you know, why, the Red Shirts burn the central, why not other sites, the central, if you look at many analysis in Thailand you will understand better that the Red Shirts, they are not sophisticated enough to burn the whole building down.

They may angry to create fires, here and there a small fires, but not the big fires. The big fire is, must be the work of professional. Is not be a Red Shirt definitely and it must be well planned ahead. I can assure you, as an ex-police I can assure you that this is a well planned and professionally done is not really, I can say is that it's a set up, it's a set up. http://www.abc.net.a...10/s2910366.htm

However, he had nothing to do with it because he doesnt know the redshirts............

He (Thaksin) insisted he is not advising members of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), the formal name for the Red Shirts, who enjoy wide support among Thailand’s rural poor and working class.

“I don’t know them,” he said. http://asiancorrespo...-or-real-grass/

Edited December 8, 2012 by waza

[carra]

, but take a look at your own actions and man up and face the consequences.

Unlike your cowardly 'leader' living in Dubai huh?

My leader?

Who is my leader?

Yet another poster that doesn't bother to read posts and take time to understand the poster he is trying to ridicule.