Ex-Thai Premier Abhisit Slams 'political' Protest Murder Charge

[whybother]

George

Posted April 10, 2010 at 7:58 PM

3:55PM Saturday afternoon April 11th in Bangkok: ThaiPBS Reporter at scene states that soldiers at firing guns into the air (from video though the guns are horizontal)………..

anthapan

Posted April 10, 2010 at 8:06 PM

From red stage at Rajaprasong Natthawut announcing that the army is using M-16 rifles to disperse crowds at Pan Fa, claims many injuries.

Now showing images of people injured, holding up bullets for cameras.

Would have thought that was provable. Don't forget at the time live fire by the army had / was being denied but there were casualties. So the Army are not working to their own stated MO.

The Army are not on trial here though, thats already been stated. As you say unless it is provable it's going to be hard to pin down an army OIC. However causality, if there is such a word can be pinned on the CRES for ordering the bringing live bullets to what was at the beginning a peaceful demo and then using them.

Were they shooting live bullets at that point?

Read all the clips - why do you need me to tell you what they say?

So it wasn't until the evening that they were using live bullets. What time did Colonel Romklao get blown up?

[bhb]

All of the above would be valid if Tarit had as you state "thought that the director was committing murder". Unfortunately for your "argument" there is nowhere that Tarit states that viewpoint at the time he was in CRES. From my clipping

No mention in there about being aware at the time that murder was being committed. Instead the common sense ruling that such investigations/charges could not be made until after the results of the first autopsy were known, in this case some two and a half years after the event, making your argument above about "taking a stance" nonsense.

My argument is not nonsense.

Tarit has stated that he never agreed with the action that was taken at the time and did not suggest to Abhisit or Suthep that they use weapons against the people. So he knew weapons were being used against the people, he disagreed with it, but he stayed in his job and continued carrying out the orders he was given. He was a part of it. He knew what was happening. He went along with it.

http://www.nationmul...r-30195737.html

Asked whether Tarit himself was at the time a member of the CRES, he said he never agreed with the tough action and did not suggest to Abhisit and Suthep that they use weapons against the people.

He was not in a position to influence what happened, he was employed by CRES and as he is a civil servant in Thailand if he does not carry out his duties he can be sued as he explained. Your argument that he should have taken a stand and that this is now a politically based charge is still nonsense. The DSI, Police and the Attorney General, the Tripartite are all involved in bringing charges as stated.

[whybother]

He was not in a position to influence what happened, he was employed by CRES and as he is a civil servant in Thailand if he does not carry out his duties he can be sued as he explained. Your argument that he should have taken a stand and that this is now a politically based charge is still nonsense. The DSI, Police and the Attorney General, the Tripartite are all involved in bringing charges as stated.

If he thought they were doing something criminal, he could have resigned. If your boss was doing something criminal, would you resign or help him?

[Rich teacher]

So it wasn't until the evening that they were using live bullets. What time did Colonel Romklao get blown up?

For those that like to accuse others of using the 'but the Democrats' button, we have a lot using the 'but the reds button' here. If anyone can come up with a signed order from the UDD leaders/ Thaksin/ or anyone, authorising the deadly use of weapons against Romklao, the BTS victim, etc, I strongly believe they should be prosecuted too.

[Hugo6]

Were they shooting live bullets at that point?

Read all the clips - why do you need me to tell you what they say?

So it wasn't until the evening that they were using live bullets. What time did Colonel Romklao get blown up?

whybother?

[waza]

Hard to believe that Abhisit's murder charge is not politically motivated when those responsable for this, govern the country.

Edited December 8, 2012 by waza

[bhb]

He was not in a position to influence what happened, he was employed by CRES and as he is a civil servant in Thailand if he does not carry out his duties he can be sued as he explained. Your argument that he should have taken a stand and that this is now a politically based charge is still nonsense. The DSI, Police and the Attorney General, the Tripartite are all involved in bringing charges as stated.

If he thought they were doing something criminal, he could have resigned. If your boss was doing something criminal, would you resign or help him?

Applying western values to Thailand is an exercise in futility, I would have thought you would know that , let alone projecting your "values" on someone you don't even know.

[rixalex]

He was not in a position to influence what happened, he was employed by CRES and as he is a civil servant in Thailand if he does not carry out his duties he can be sued as he explained. Your argument that he should have taken a stand and that this is now a politically based charge is still nonsense. The DSI, Police and the Attorney General, the Tripartite are all involved in bringing charges as stated.

What happened to your argument five minutes ago that he was oblivious of what was going on?

Now you accept he did have knowledge that weapons were being used against the people, he was against this, but was powerless and could do nothing but remain a part of the team and continue doing his job. People were being killed but he had to consider his own fate and what might happen to him - being killed is one thing but being sued... well who can blame him for doing absolutely nothing at all with that hanging over his head....

[siampolee]

Carra post # 177

So what is my belief? I believe in democracy and right now we have a democratically elected government,

Carra as you're not a Thai perhaps you should look carefully at the comment you made

I didn't label you as a communist I implied you desire a repressive corrupt dictatorship such as Thaksin and his brown nosing acolytes do modeled on the communist ideal..

You jumped to the wrong conclusion, circumstantial evidence was always shaky ground in a case wasn't it ?

C.P.S rejected many a case based on assumptions and comments like yours.

One can only presume you left the U.K. police on medical grounds rather than full service retirement.

It might interest you to know I was a serving officer involved in Operation Countryman from 1978 to 1980 where we cleared a lot of corrupt filth out of the force then I went to the Spooks until retirement with D.C.I rank in 1990.

What was your rank and shoulder? ,

No doubt you were considered a security risk even as a a low level officer.with your political views if they were the same then as they are now..

Is that clear now or do you need pictures? Don't ever accuse and insult me again or accuse me of communism, if you have a problem with this then feel free to use the PM button.

Interesting to see your take on free speech and democracy , can't have it all coming out in the open can we ?

We might just get to see the true picture you and your ilk want to paint on the canvas of Thailand and its people.

Easy for you to fly or walk away from a dictatorship unlike the locals..

Edited December 8, 2012 by siampolee

[siampolee]

No violent act committed by the UDD the forerunners and mentors of the Red Shirts?

Perhaps this little trip back in time might well refresh those people with selective memories and their own agendas as to the reality of the situation and the prolonged terrorist activities so beloved by the man who leads from the safety of Dubai and top class shopping mails around the world with his family.

the term ''man '' is used in the above post as a gender identification term rather than a term indicating status..

.

Red-shirt woman and UDD guard jailed for alleged offences against soldiers in 2009

A woman and a guard for the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship have been sentenced to prison for detaining and attacking soldiers during red-shirt rallies in 2009.

On 15 Oct, the Criminal Court found Naruemon Warunrungroj and Kittisak Chinkhajon guilty of forcing with arms, detaining, and assaulting others during red-shirt rallies on 25 Feb 2009.

The two were the third and fourth defendants in the case who appeared in court, while the first two, Sonchai Sidi and Prachuap Bunsantia, are at large.

Naruemon was sentenced to one year in prison under Section 295 of the Criminal Code, and Kittisak three years under Section 309 (2) of the same law.

After the verdict was read, both defendants were immediately held in custody and sent to prison.

Source: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3407

Edited December 8, 2012 by siampolee

[Moruya]

central world burning videos is just a stupid distraction from abhisit killing thai citizens

maybe the dsi is political - almost 300 cases against red shirts and now one against boy wonder and his evil uncle suthep - could be political, TIT

but could also be justice

hold boy wonders feet to the fire

its karma

The red underpants brigade don't believe in karma. They have their noses buried far too deeply in the trough for that.

I remember all the statements made about never accepting compensation for the dead. Lasted a few weeks then they all queued up for their cheques.

Hypocritical Thida betraying her previous beliefs

[rubl]

So it wasn't until the evening that they were using live bullets. What time did Colonel Romklao get blown up?

For those that like to accuse others of using the 'but the Democrats' button, we have a lot using the 'but the reds button' here. If anyone can come up with a signed order from the UDD leaders/ Thaksin/ or anyone, authorising the deadly use of weapons against Romklao, the BTS victim, etc, I strongly believe they should be prosecuted too.

Authorizing the use of deadly weapons to defend oneself and others from those who have ill-intend is not the same as authorizing the use of weapons against some.

[marshbags]

["Unless of course Tarit never actually had those thoughts at the time but has suddenly decided in the current political climate that to say now that he did, could do wonders for his career prospects...."

And that is the point! +1

It is yet another of the inbedded downsides in relation to Thai culture and it,s political practices of authority changing opinion.

Not because the morally believe they misjudged their views on a particular issue, but to enable them to become part of a political party who have opposing thoughts and agendas ect. ect.

Not forgeting the financial rewards it brings them .AKA.. self enrichment before considerations for the electorate and doing what is in the best interest of Thailand and it,s long suffering citizens.

As I would suggest has happened in Tarits case courteousy of the P.T. CEO in Dubai

marshbags

Edited December 8, 2012 by marshbags

[DocN]

Oh personal abuse, how about countering my comments or are you struggling to so you resort to this crap?

Let me try to counter that for you, what charges have been laid against current PM and Chalerm for seriously injuring 13 people just the other week? Those were also unarmed and outnumbered by police like 1-100.

So will PM be charged and should she be charged for ordering violent crackdown causing injury's

Are you talking about the PS - ralley?

Where "unarmed" demonstrators were trying to tear down police- barricades and attacked policemen under the ISA?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...how is that a) very different and b ) has it nothing to do with the OP again?

When will you people (blind to everything yellow) finally stop to compare apples and oranges?

You had enough time to voice your anger about the rally in related subjects!

Now, we are talking about something diffrent!

"But Mommy....Johnny did hit me last week!"

Edited December 8, 2012 by DocN

[Pimay1]

Were they shooting live bullets at that point?

Read all the clips - why do you need me to tell you what they say?

So it wasn't until the evening that they were using live bullets. What time did Colonel Romklao get blown up?

whybother?

Very intelligent post.

[metisdead]

A post containing a derogatory nickname of the PM has been removed. If you don't want your post to be deleted, spell people's names correctly.

[Meetoo]

A post containing a derogatory nickname of the PM has been removed. If you don't want your post to be deleted, spell people's names correctly.

Ooops...! Sorry guess that mighta been me mate ..... ok well ... here we go with the proper name ... Where is our delightful and Dear "Abide by the rules of the law" PM these days...? Awfully quiet isn't she now,....nah?? or has she been caught up in one of those Balck Friday Super Sales somewhere ... ??

[lemoncake]

Oh personal abuse, how about countering my comments or are you struggling to so you resort to this crap?

Let me try to counter that for you, what charges have been laid against current PM and Chalerm for seriously injuring 13 people just the other week? Those were also unarmed and outnumbered by police like 1-100.

So will PM be charged and should she be charged for ordering violent crackdown causing injury's

Are you talking about the PS - ralley?

Where "unarmed" demonstrators were trying to tear down police- barricades and attacked policemen under the ISA?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...how is that a) very different and b ) has it nothing to do with the OP again?

When will you people (blind to everything yellow) finally stop to compare apples and oranges?

You had enough time to voice your anger about the rally in related subjects!

Now, we are talking about something diffrent!

"But Mommy....Johnny did hit me last week!"

right so trying to tear down police barricades is not ok, but attacking anything and everyone as well as breaking through the police- barricades is perfectly acceptable?

We are not talking about something different we are talking about holding head of state accountable for actions of someone else or perhaps actions that could not be avoided.

You really think it was ok to injury 13 or so people when the recent mob had only about 500 people to 3000-5000 police? you do not think it was excessive force?mind you all were unarmed and all is honky dory, as oppose to thousands holding the city hostage for 2 months, not only breaking police barricades but breaking private property, as well as throwing grenades.

So you actually believe ex PM did wrong in that situation, but current one did right? and the charges against ex PM are justified?

[noni99]

central world burning videos is just a stupid distraction from abhisit killing thai citizens

maybe the dsi is political - almost 300 cases against red shirts and now one against boy wonder and his evil uncle suthep - could be political, TIT

but could also be justice

hold boy wonders feet to the fire

its karma

How can a terrorist act like burning down the central world be a 'stupid distraction' from a baseless accusation.

There should be more cases against the red-mob from 2010 - the back then government couldn't wait any longer to try to stop this terrorists.

The thai citizens died, because they provoked the authorities to do something against them, and because some of the demonstrators were heavily armed (and actually used these tools) it couldn't be 'bloodless'. The government told the peaceful demonstrators to leave the scene before the overdue/unavoidable crackdown - who was still there later on should have known what can/will happen.

Where I come from, they (police, army) wouldn't wait so many weeks/months before they do something against armed demonstrators, and there would have been fatalities too. If you want to accuse the old government, then maybe because they let the red-shirts do so many damage to the country without stopping them earlier.

Of course, the yellow's did also a lot of damage with the airport-occupation, but the scale of violence (central world burning is just an example) and weapons used by the reds in 2010 was a completly different dimension. But the red think-tank doens't care about Thai citizens who lose theyr lifes, he is only interested in himself - that's why he provoked this scenario.

But maybe you are just a troll and don't beleive your own ridiculous statements.

[Pimay1]

central world burning videos is just a stupid distraction from abhisit killing thai citizens

maybe the dsi is political - almost 300 cases against red shirts and now one against boy wonder and his evil uncle suthep - could be political, TIT

but could also be justice

hold boy wonders feet to the fire

its karma

How can a terrorist act like burning down the central world be a 'stupid distraction' from a baseless accusation.

There should be more cases against the red-mob from 2010 - the back then government couldn't wait any longer to try to stop this terrorists.

The thai citizens died, because they provoked the authorities to do something against them, and because some of the demonstrators were heavily armed (and actually used these tools) it couldn't be 'bloodless'. The government told the peaceful demonstrators to leave the scene before the overdue/unavoidable crackdown - who was still there later on should have known what can/will happen.

Where I come from, they (police, army) wouldn't wait so many weeks/months before they do something against armed demonstrators, and there would have been fatalities too. If you want to accuse the old government, then maybe because they let the red-shirts do so many damage to the country without stopping them earlier.

Of course, the yellow's did also a lot of damage with the airport-occupation, but the scale of violence (central world burning is just an example) and weapons used by the reds in 2010 was a completly different dimension. But the red think-tank doens't care about Thai citizens who lose theyr lifes, he is only interested in himself - that's why he provoked this scenario.

But maybe you are just a troll and don't beleive your own ridiculous statements.

Of course he dosen't believe his own ridiculous statements. He is just trying to wind people up and get a response.

[Artisi]

central world burning videos is just a stupid distraction from abhisit killing thai citizens

maybe the dsi is political - almost 300 cases against red shirts and now one against boy wonder and his evil uncle suthep - could be political, TIT

but could also be justice

hold boy wonders feet to the fire

its karma

How can a terrorist act like burning down the central world be a 'stupid distraction' from a baseless accusation.

There should be more cases against the red-mob from 2010 - the back then government couldn't wait any longer to try to stop this terrorists.

The thai citizens died, because they provoked the authorities to do something against them, and because some of the demonstrators were heavily armed (and actually used these tools) it couldn't be 'bloodless'. The government told the peaceful demonstrators to leave the scene before the overdue/unavoidable crackdown - who was still there later on should have known what can/will happen.

Where I come from, they (police, army) wouldn't wait so many weeks/months before they do something against armed demonstrators, and there would have been fatalities too. If you want to accuse the old government, then maybe because they let the red-shirts do so many damage to the country without stopping them earlier.

Of course, the yellow's did also a lot of damage with the airport-occupation, but the scale of violence (central world burning is just an example) and weapons used by the reds in 2010 was a completly different dimension. But the red think-tank doens't care about Thai citizens who lose theyr lifes, he is only interested in himself - that's why he provoked this scenario.

But maybe you are just a troll and don't beleive your own ridiculous statements.

Of course he dosen't believe his own ridiculous statements. He is just trying to wind people up and get a response.

He is not winding people up, just pushing the stupid red mantra. Like many of the red supporters, can't really think for themselves - that is why there was burning, killing and general stupidity due to the fact that's as far as the intelligence (used very loosely) extends for many.

[philw]

central world burning videos is just a stupid distraction from abhisit killing thai citizens

maybe the dsi is political - almost 300 cases against red shirts and now one against boy wonder and his evil uncle suthep - could be political, TIT

but could also be justice

hold boy wonders feet to the fire

its karma

How can a terrorist act like burning down the central world be a 'stupid distraction' from a baseless accusation.

There should be more cases against the red-mob from 2010 - the back then government couldn't wait any longer to try to stop this terrorists.

The thai citizens died, because they provoked the authorities to do something against them, and because some of the demonstrators were heavily armed (and actually used these tools) it couldn't be 'bloodless'. The government told the peaceful demonstrators to leave the scene before the overdue/unavoidable crackdown - who was still there later on should have known what can/will happen.

Where I come from, they (police, army) wouldn't wait so many weeks/months before they do something against armed demonstrators, and there would have been fatalities too. If you want to accuse the old government, then maybe because they let the red-shirts do so many damage to the country without stopping them earlier.

Of course, the yellow's did also a lot of damage with the airport-occupation, but the scale of violence (central world burning is just an example) and weapons used by the reds in 2010 was a completly different dimension. But the red think-tank doens't care about Thai citizens who lose theyr lifes, he is only interested in himself - that's why he provoked this scenario.

But maybe you are just a troll and don't beleive your own ridiculous statements.

Of course he dosen't believe his own ridiculous statements. He is just trying to wind people up and get a response.

He is not winding people up, just pushing the stupid red mantra. Like many of the red supporters, can't really think for themselves - that is why there was burning, killing and general stupidity due to the fact that's as far as the intelligence (used very loosely) extends for many.

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

[lemoncake]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

Really? and for some crazy reason i always thought taking the city hostage was the stupidity

[Artisi]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

[philw]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

Yep.

The army did most of the shooting, most of the killing and caused most of the casualties.

Clear enough ??

[Artisi]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

Yep.

The army did most of the shooting, most of the killing and caused most of the casualties.

Clear enough ??

And who did the rest or were these just unfortunate accidents.

[whybother]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

Yep.

The army did most of the shooting, most of the killing and caused most of the casualties.

Clear enough ??

That's right. Most. Not all. The red shirt militia caused a few casualties as well. It's not like the army were out there dealing with only "peaceful protesters".

[Artisi]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

Yep.

The army did most of the shooting, most of the killing and caused most of the casualties.

Clear enough ??

That's right. Most. Not all. The red shirt militia caused a few casualties as well. It's not like the army were out there dealing with only "peaceful protesters".

Very peaceful protesters if you like to believe some people.

[noni99]

Most of the killing and general stupidity came from the government, did it not ???

So you know who did most of the killing do you? - please enlighten us with some facts so as to finally clear this matter up.

Yes the government was stupid for letting it get so far out of hand but their stupidity was no-where matched to that of the followers of the off-shore puppet master who couldn't give a rats a_rse about the outcome so long as his agenda was implemented.

Yep.

The army did most of the shooting, most of the killing and caused most of the casualties.

Clear enough ??

I also think, that the army killed more than the reds. But you have to ask why and how it happend.

It were clearly the reds who started the violence and there was no other option then to clear up the mess (after watching the more and more violent mob for many weeks). If theyr goal was to kill as many protestors as possible, there would be 1000's of dead Thai citizens.

The army did a good job in not to shoot like crazy - but what else can a soldier do, when there are armed protestors to deal with. And without the overdue crackdown we would have a much worse situation now.

The coward in Dubai and his red-shirt leaders actually 'killed' theyr own people in telling them what to do - and the remote-controlled crowd did it ...

[candid]

Philw. We asked you this question many times before. In view of the paralysis of Bangkok, the invasion of hospitals, the escalating elevels of violence by the mob, the total indifference of the police, and the hostile speeches of the idiots on stage, what exactly would you and your red shirt apologists have done to end the siege? If the mob had been wearing yellow shirts, what would you have done? Would you have let them continue wrecking business confidence, intimidating people and generally making Thailand an international laughiing stock? Easy to criticise, but what would have been your answer to it all?

Maybe a clue in the recent demo in Bangkok where the government called up thousands of riot poice and "civilian auxiliaries waiting in police stations" well before the event where the first sign of unrest was met with tear gas and beatings