Fakers Threaten Phuket's Tourism

[sabaijai]

This is a major issue! Try using a foreign (non Thai bank) Visa card when booking Nok Air and see how far you get! They're not interested as clearly they must have lost a lot of money to credit card fraud! They say they're updating thier credit card software, but they've been 'updating' it for 2 or 3 months now! Non acceptance of foreign credit cards must have an impact on their business.

In Malaysia, the problem is pandemic. My bank (Australian), to safeguard card holders, will AUTOMATICALLY reissue your credit card if it is used in Malaysia! Your old card is cancelled! After having several unauthorised charges to my card after use, I can understand why!

In Thailand, if my bank in Oz sees a charge of any significance on my card, they phone my mobile phone immediately to verify the charge. This usually happens before I've even left the store! How's that for service, but at the same time, it reinforces the size & magnitude of the problem.

Foreign tourists must feel confident that they can use their credit cards securely or without doubt, it will have an impact on tourist arrivals & dollar tourist contributions to the Thai economy.

I've never had a problem using a foreign credit card to charge flights on Nok Air, just purchased a couple more Nok flights yesterday with one.

[KhunMarco]

Tips at the cash machine (yup they seem pretty obvious, I saw on tv a candid camera and you won't believe the stuff people do with their CC).

* Have your Visa card ready to use.

* Make sure you are not overlooked by anyone who might see you keying in your PIN (personal identification number) or the transaction amount. (I must add, look out for people with a mobile, they can take a picture of your card while you are paying, always cover the keyboard with one hand, micro cameras installed overnight by thieves are not a first anymore, it happens...)

* Put your cash, card and receipt away immediately - do not stand by the machine counting the notes.

* If the cash machine swallows or damages your card, tell your card issuer (bank or other organisation) immediately and they will arrange a replacement.

* If strangers say they can help, decline the offer.

* Look around you - especially at night. If the lighting is poor or the machine is in a concealed location, use another machine.

* If the machine is in a booth and you have to swipe your card in an entry device, do not let strangers follow you in.

* If you use a drive-through cash machine, keep the car doors locked and other windows closed.

* If you arrive at the cash machine by car, remember not to leave your keys or valuables behind. Never leave your car engine running.

* Always take your receipt. Compare your monthly statement with the receipts - it guards against fraud and makes record-keeping easier.

Edited February 15, 2006 by KhunMarco

[manutoo]

Sorry here ends my knowledge.

Do it now, it's another little step toward peace of mind

ok, thanks for the info, I'll contact my banker soon !

[fox]

Malaysia has introduced the 'chip-based ' credit cards for Visa and Master Card.

As a result, fraud cases have gone down .

The only cases reported here is this.

Your card had been lost/stolen, then your card would be used before you are

aware that it was lost or stolen.

With the latest 'chip-based' technology, it will be most difficult or near impossible

to clone or copy.

The card could still be used in other countries.......... but it will not be based on

the chip-based system. It would be used by the normal way.

Thailand has yet to introduce this latest 'state-of-the-art' technology.

At present all credit cards, identity cards, ATM cards and passports in Malaysia are using

the 'chip-based' technology. For example, Malaysian passports going in and out

of the country will be scan by the online computers. No visa stamps on the passport.

All information will be recorded in the online computers.

[BlackJack]

KhunMarco,

Good point.

Also, I never sign my card. That way if it's lost or stolen, the finder/theif has neither PIN nor signature. So he hasn't got much.

talk about dumb and dumber

the thief can sign the card and then all the sellers do is check to see if the signature is the same

WOW -

[jaiyen]

You might think I am old fashioned but I always use cash ! I have never been ripped off, in fact I get a good discount on purchases. I have been to Thailand 12 times now and always spend a lot of money but I refuse to even take a credit card with me. Once it is used too many people get your information. Now check out the frauds related too internet banking. Its big too.

[frenchFARANGbkk]

Malaysia has introduced the 'chip-based ' credit cards for Visa and Master Card.

As a result, fraud cases have gone down .

The only cases reported here is this.

Your card had been lost/stolen, then your card would be used before you are

aware that it was lost or stolen.

With the latest 'chip-based' technology, it will be most difficult or near impossible

to clone or copy.

The card could still be used in other countries.......... but it will not be based on

the chip-based system. It would be used by the normal way.

Thailand has yet to introduce this latest 'state-of-the-art' technology.

At present all credit cards, identity cards, ATM cards and passports in Malaysia are using

the 'chip-based' technology. For example, Malaysian passports going in and out

of the country will be scan by the online computers. No visa stamps on the passport.

All information will be recorded in the online computers.

So new ;-)

It's more than 10 years that we used PIN based credit card in France

But it's anyway very easy to Fake

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/02/26/fr...cker_convicted/

They just make a Yes card accepting any pin code.

[astral]

* If the cash machine swallows or damages your card, tell your card issuer (bank or other organisation) immediately and they will arrange a replacement.

Have you ever tried getting a replacement Visa or Mastercard sent to Thailand??

The banks will not do it.

You have to have it mailed to a local address in your country (1 week).

The couriered on to Thailand. 3-4 days if you are lucky.

[cutter007]

I have used a credit card in Thailand almost on a daily basis for at least a couple of years, never had a problem.

Citibank, will call if a big purchase is made.

But I did stop in Malaysia once, and used it one time to pay for a hotel, and someone tried to start using it, but the bank caught it and canceled the card immediatly.

What you really have to worry about is using a credit card issued by a Thai bank. As Thai banks are as good at credit card security issues as they are at anything else.

And if you aren't fimiliar with Thai banks, they aren't good at anything. Thai government regulations do not allow foreign banks to compete in the retail banking industry because they know Thai banks are filled with incompetent and lazy, managers and staff.

The only reason why they survive is because there is no other alternative, thanks to the Thai government.

I relish the day when that regulation is relaxed, and I can watch the foreign banks, with actual customer service, 21st century technology, and realistic interest rates, crush every Thai bank in the market.

Edited February 16, 2006 by cutter007

[lingling]

I've never had a problem using a foreign credit card to charge flights on Nok Air, just purchased a couple more Nok flights yesterday with one.

I think Mastercard works but Visa don't.

[Estrada]

Most of shops cooperate with fakers - they "launder" stolen cash through cards, overpriced jewelry - to reduce taxes and so on. I've seen cc slips in Pantip, lots of strange things going there...

And, surely, muslims from malaysia - main cc fakers, no doubt...

Not correct, It has always been the Chinese Malaysians, who are linked with the Triads in Hongkong and Soho London. The Muslims Malaysians are not clever enough. If you look at previous arrests, they are all Chinese.

I have personally met with a Malaysian Triad in London who had a stack of these cards, and that was in 1993, only difference was that the card strip was slightly raised otherwise you cannot tell the difference.

Your card data can be read here one day, and the next day the data has been transfered to a cloned card in London or Hongkong through the Triad connection. A number of the Chinese Restaurants in Soho are Triad owned and are fronts for illegal Triad activity. When I was there the cards were being moved around by a Malaysian distributing Tofu, which was merely a front for illegal business, distributing cloned cards and collecting "swiped" card data. I reported the matter to the Police after leaving the Country, Triads are definately not people you want to double cross and hang around, look what happened to Bruce Lee.

So credit card cloning has been around for ages. I have City Bank cards issued in Thailand. These have my picture on them. I think all cards should have this security aid, but a lot do not.

I experience the same problem with Malaysia since 2004 when Citibank issued a letter saying that they "PREFERRED", that I did not use my Cards in Malaysia. I then tried booking an Airticket in KL, and was refused. So what Citibank really meant to say was "You can't use your card in Malaysia".

Air Asia does accept them fortunately. I can use my Bangkok Bank ATM card their though, very fortunately for me on my last trip.

One thing you should be careful with is not to let the card out of your sight and inisist that the card is swiped only in front of you. If not, pay cash. In Malaysia they will swipe your card at the Petrol station when you pay for your petrol, and in the afternoon they are already using a cloned card.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Estrada

[alexth]

I work all over SE Asia, and have done for the last 3 years - I would often use my CC in 3 different countries in 3 days. The only problem I have EVER had was after withdrawing money in Malaysia, Borneo side. I was on my boat at work a few days later (in posession of my CC), while someone was racking up, on my card, 15,000 Hong Kong dollars on a shopping spree (thats not as much money as it may sound). When I phoned my bank, they said they had already stopped the card, stating "yes Mr Smith, for the last 2 years, you have used your card only for flights, hotels, duty free booze and vehicle rental. These purchases are jewelery and antiques in rapid succession.....so we stopped it".

I had the money refunded a few days later, and my bank later told me that whoever make the purchases actually signed the ######ing recipts in Chinese!!!!! Can you believe that??? Imagine having the neck to do that with my name written on the card???

Most of the CC fakers work hand in hand with the staff from the stores, there is no doubt of it. This explaines how did your receipe ended up signed in chinese . I only use my CC at ATM's, and speaking about ATM's, be careful about this one too, check the ATM first for any suspicious signs, they could get your CC copied easily

[socalbro]

Who cares really!

Yea it's a hassle to report and replace a card, but while the credit companies lure people with the promise of greater material wealth and acceptance through sexually driven advertisements. Geared to make the average white collar worker believe they are getting something like sex appeal from the products own - they fail to assert that they will be charging something like 20% APR and each month payments only cover interest as the original debt floats or even rises.

So they lose a few thousand Baht to forgers and con artists - wowiee...

I should feel sorry for the corporate muther fer's or the guy that just commited to pay 30,000 Baht for a 10,000 Baht mobile for his girlfriend while completely never understanding he just signed his future away.

There are basic laws in most developed nations that govern the credit providers to where they are nearly human when followed to the letter...

But give those same companies a new immature market like Thailand to rape, where consumer protections are almost non-existant, and they will abuse each and every standard of law we consider our rights, and thought to be fair practices in the western world.

In other words, they lie, cheat and steal for every moment they are able where they can freely cheat people. This is considered acceptable business practices, but it is really it is their best effort to cheat people while they are in an undeveloped market with soft spots.

So every time a credit card user gets ripped off, and is smart enough to report it quickly and avoid responsibility, I applaud those clever enough to pinch a piece back from those intent on enslaving innocent people with promises of having more money and material posessions than they can actually afford through lies and manipulations.

Given the chance and I'd loan those who want it a reasonable amount for a straight 10% payable in 12 months - no questions asked and no small print.

there is a world of opportunity to do something good for the average Thai here, but of course that opportunity will be exploited as far as it can by the cold steel blades of CORPORATE GREED!

[tracer0]

I got my Visa card cancelled a couple of months after my trip to Malaysia. But there, I only used it once, to get cash from ATM...

I wonder if it was the reason they wanted to cancel it or not, coz the control organism said the reason had to be kept "secret", so even my banker didn't know what happened exactly !

But I didn't use my card again after this ATM in Malaysia... (and only used it once in an ATM in my country in the previous month)

I'm retired and living in Thailand, I have a stategovernment retirement, any ways. I have my

check deposited directly into my Credit Uion in the USA, and accessed my funds through my atm visa, that is until 4 months ago without notice, my credit union stopped honoring atm visa in thailand or any country close bye. this makes it extremly hard and expensive to access my funds Now i deposit a personal check into my Thai bank acct. this takes about 8-12 to clear the bank in usa and the thai bank will not let me have the funds for 45 days and charges me a 1000฿ for each transaction. My retirement board will not deposit my check into a forigen bank , but would send me a check but that would take even longer. I just wonder if other usa banks will soon follow suit. I have a aussie friend where his credit society did the same for about 2 weeks then decided to start honoring them again

Credit card isnt an ATM card and really should not be used for such as you pay more in the shops if using a creditcard.

Secondly if the machine eats the card you loose credit AND ATM card. In the past I went to the foreign exchange and like in Malaysia paid the M$ 5 for manually getting me money...At present , living here, I havent got credit cards, just ATM and in countries where I often visit I have back accounts with not a lot of cash but enough to pay some meals, a few nights cheap accomodation and maybe transport to Thailand. I work and have wrked for many years with computers and I donot trust the cards...

* If the cash machine swallows or damages your card, tell your card issuer (bank or other organisation) immediately and they will arrange a replacement.

Have you ever tried getting a replacement Visa or Mastercard sent to Thailand??

The banks will not do it.

You have to have it mailed to a local address in your country (1 week).

The couriered on to Thailand. 3-4 days if you are lucky.

I used many years ago cards issued in UK. They send in the end to shanghai and HK bank in Penang. First renewal went missing but I am convinced much more likely it got nicked in UK postal system then here... I mean here nobody would recognise whats used to send by various banks as creditcards. However essentially the bank in UK send it to their branch there and it STILL wasnt safe....

Someone else said something about payments to bank to get money here.

Well what I did in the past was to find a THAI bank in the country where I was as they function like a normal bank, can issue in this case $ checks and also accept payments to be moved to place in Thailand, same bank, Thai branch. Ie in USA check Thai farmers bank as example and find out if they can help and how long payment takes to get to Thailand.... DO check prices but in the past in UK I paid pound 2 for sending me money and exchanging pounds to baht.

[rcav8r]

This thread has meandered far from the original post where Cop Bundit stated that shop keepers should beware of fake cards being produced by villains. Surely this criminal activity does not concern tourists and their own cards ? Tourists (and all card users in fact) should just take all the usual precautions.

One very significant comment about cards has been made " ... I do not trust cards ... " and I agree.

No matter what happens about those fake cards, in the end we - the customers - will pay for any losses incurred by the shop keepers - and the card companies.

(This is another meander .... ) A long time ago in a place far, far away, I used to use credit cards frequently until I was double invoiced. That time it was Diners. And regardless of having all the correct receipts to prove that I had payed on time, nevertheless Diners were adamant and in the end, I had to counter-threaten to take them to court. They seemed to back off but then later, after my posting to Hong Kong, they started again to contact me. After discussion of all the circumstances and with the evidence of payment, the Hong Kong agents of Diners agreed I was right and to stop hounding me. That taught me a lesson not to use cards ever again.

However, one time I was in Sydney to pick up a rental car reserved by my travel agent. At the desk, I was asked for my card - but no card. I was told - no card, no car ! Fortunately, I had a friend who helped me out of that situation. So now I DO have a card which is reserved only for the purpose of car rental. And well .... yes, I've used it very occasionally for other purposes.

MalcolmL

[toptuan]

I'm with you, Malcolm. Back in my home country, I used credit cards heavily, and had at least 2-3 miserable disputes every year I that I had to work through. Frustrating and time-consuming.

The "straw" that broke this camel's back was during my first couple years in Thailand when the Travellers Inn in Bangkok double-billed me for one night's stay and the bank issuing my Visa card wouldn't back me up despite complete documentation I had provided to them. I lost only $50 or so, but it was enough to halt my use of credit cards (except for only emergencies, car rental, or online air tickets). Even then, I get stung. Recently, I was double-billed for an air ticket purchased on the internet, and spent a month wrangling through that!

It's just not worth the hassle, especially if your credit card company goes dodgy on you.

[rcav8r]

Hi toptuan - glad to see you agree about cards - and sorry to hear you had card company problems too.

As for air tickets, it's possible (and relatively easy too) in Thailand to pay cash at various different outlets - like 7-Eleven for example. It's only the car rentals that demand a card - a cash deposit is not good enough for them - even to the value of the car - they want the card' I'm told, in case you have an accident or any other claim against you even thought the insurance they sell you is supposed to cover all that stuff. Another typical case of the customer being shafted by big business.

MalcolmL

(snip)

I'm with you, Malcolm. Back in my home country, I used credit cards heavily, and had at least 2-3 miserable disputes every year I that I had to work through. Frustrating and time-consuming.

The "straw" that broke this camel's back was during my first couple years in Thailand when the Travellers Inn in Bangkok double-billed me for one night's stay and the bank issuing my Visa card wouldn't back me up despite complete documentation I had provided to them. I lost only $50 or so, but it was enough to halt my use of credit cards (except for only emergencies, car rental, or online air tickets). Even then, I get stung. Recently, I was double-billed for an air ticket purchased on the internet, and spent a month wrangling through that!

It's just not worth the hassle, especially if your credit card company goes dodgy on you.

(snip)

[Hollywood]

I agree with Socalbro...beware Thailand, the credit card companies in the U.S. have hurt more working middle class families than you can imagine. Keep one for car rental, and use cash like in the old days.

The most profitable companies in the U.S. behind oil companies was the top banks. ( Forbes )

Most of the posters here sound mature enough to realize this , so warn the young ones.

How safe are the cash conversion places in Bangkok, around Silom?

[Jingjok]

I've just had my UK-issued Coutts Mastercard cloned and used in Australia (where I've never been). The bank called me to ask if the sudden rush of transactions on 24 April 06 were genuine. All were in shops, with a buyer and physical card present. All will be refunded to me immediately, but it will apparently cost the bank. Currently about GBP 3,000.

I hardly ever use this card in Thailand. In the last six months I've only used it three Phuket fuel stations, so it's not hard to identify the culprit site.

Be warned!

BTW, I'm waiting to see if the bank will post a replacement card to my Phuket address or not.

[rcav8r]

BTW, I'm waiting to see if the bank will post a replacement card to my Phuket address or not.

I'm interested in knowing IF you do have your new card posted from UK. Mine is due for renewal soon and I'm trying to find out if that restriction has been lifted on sending cards to Thailand. MalcolmL

[rcav8r]

Keep one for car rental, and use cash like in the old days.

Only one card for car rentals may not be enough - see my post - if you use a debit card only, some car rental companies don't accept debit cards. So it's better to check that when you book a rental with the company. MalcolmL

[Jingjok]

Hi rcav8r: Just to let you know that my London bank will not post a replacement card to Thailand, since this country is on their banned list.

So I have to either collect it when I'm next in the UK, or have someone there post it on.

Not very satisfactory, really. My bank is usually very helpful, so I could probably argue and have them courier it or something, but their standard practice is not to send here. It's apparently difficult since I haven't registered a Thai address with them.

Good luck!

[rcav8r]

Hi rcav8r: Just to let you know that my London bank will not post a replacement card to Thailand, since this country is on their banned list.

So I have to either collect it when I'm next in the UK, or have someone there post it on.

Not very satisfactory, really. My bank is usually very helpful, so I could probably argue and have them courier it or something, but their standard practice is not to send here. It's apparently difficult since I haven't registered a Thai address with them.

Good luck!

Many thanks Jingjok for letting me know your UK bank won't send your card. I wonder if all banks still have the same policy ? Anyone know ? I'm curious about Lloyds TSB ?

BTW this thread seems to have wandered away from the original which was the danger to tourists posed by credit card fakers making and/or using fake cards in Phuket. Is this still a problem ? Or was it all a storm in a teacup and has now blown over ?

MalcolmL

[Maejo Man]

Hi rcav8r: Just to let you know that my London bank will not post a replacement card to Thailand, since this country is on their banned list.

So I have to either collect it when I'm next in the UK, or have someone there post it on.

It's apparently difficult since I haven't registered a Thai address with them.

Good luck!

Register a secondary address with them and you'll probably find that they will send it to you. Mine comes to Thailand via DHL when a new one is issued.