German National Brutally Murdered In Jomtien Apartment: Pattaya

[sirchai]

I'm really sorry for the unfortunate German man and his family. RIP.

Does it really matter who done it? Lady, katoy, jealous husband? I presume it was done by a Thai person. I know I don't have to be correct in this instance but I think it's most likely. There are so many other, recent instances of violence against foreigners perpetrated here. So, the real question should be: "Is pulling a knife on a foreigner more likely for some Thais than if another Thai person was involved?" I think the answer to it is YES. And why? Because the foreigners don't belong here, they are "different blood", they are "aliens" and "invaders", are ugly, smelly, fat, bad behaved and are not welcomed here. Only their money is. This country officially discriminates against foreigners and this message gets into some people's minds. So, if they have some problems they contribute to a foreigner they are more likely to deal with it violently. They know that foreigners have little rights here and they will most likely be covered by Thai justice, Thai people and Thai system. I witnessed that "syndrome" first hand by myself. We are all in the same boat here so we should draw some conclusions from increasing number of horrible incidents like this and stop sticking our heads in the sand. We should voice our outrage, demand equal rights, fight against xenophobia, end official discrimination and do our best to protect ourselves at the same time. And please, don't even bother to tell me to "go back to my country" if I don't like it here. Because this is my planet.

"We should voice our outrage, demand equal rights, fight against xenophobia, end official discrimination and do our best to protect ourselves at the same time."

What about more human rights for women, freedom for all zoo animals and the possibility to understand the difference? -

Sent via tablet

Edited December 13, 2012 by sirchai

[snowgard]

Sorry, was the wrong story. Seems to happen pretty often.

This is another case from 2007.

[julemanden]

the key of the safe was under the doormat,

this was too smart for the thieves,lol

Can you please tell me what's funny about this story????? ..... No brains no gain!!!!!

[laislica]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they’re deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

The cause and effect needs to be linked in. You meet a lot of cowboys in Thailand who bring their untimely demises upon themselves.

Not the case every time of course. Jealousy, revenge, spite. There can be many factors for these outcomes.

You are so right, jackinbkk. I have been saying this for a long time.

Perhaps someone should create an unofficial guide explaining the DOs and Don`ts in Thailand?

The problem is; will they listen?

Somehow I doubt you could write such a guide that folk, who have never been here, would find credible !

Have you read Private Dancer by Stephen Leather?

It's freely available as a download, it is not for sale.

For any male who wants to party with bar girls it's a must read.

http://www.pattayapages.com/girls/images/private-dancer.pdf

Incidently, a recent murder almost seemed to have been almost right out of this book.

At the end of the book that author says (amongst other things)

I’m quite happy for you to download, copy and distribute this electronic version of Private Dancer,

but all copies must be distributed unaltered and complete. You must not add or delete anything, or

modify the content in any way. (It’s just fine as it is, thanks.)

You are licensed to copy and distribute this electronic version of Private Dancer, but you must not

benefit commercially from the distribution. (I don’t make any money from Private Dancer, so I

don’t see why anyone else should.)

[antpet]

These stories are usually followed by lots of posts making vacuous assumptions as to what happened or indeed why it happened.

But assumptions aside, we really need to learn from all these tragic situations. What measures can we take to prevent this happening to us. Let's face it, none of us want to meet with such a grisly end.

Stop renting prostitutes off the streets and taking them back home for sex might be a good place to start.

Also, never forget that a Lady Boy is actually a young fit strong athletic lad schooled in Muay Thai who can physically break the neck of, or in this case, cut the neck of the older, weaker victim.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Perhaps I should write a 'How to ...' guide for Pattaya. You know, cover the usual holiday stuff, best beach area, freshest papaya salad etc etc and also, not get murder by strangers you rent off the beach.

Just a thought only in my experience the people you may see at other tables in the restaurant or while collecting your laundry don't ever end up in your own home.

Why is that? you may ask. It's because we are wise enough not to invite complete strangers back to our homes.

Ask yourself while travelling down to Foodland and sharing the baht bus with 8 other travellers just how many you invited back home. Unless it was for casual sex I'd say your answer is none.

There you go then. Wrecklessness beyond belief and a life thrown away.

As for all you well meaning Colombo's out there .................... the lap top was removed most likely because of what it contained. The damaging evidence on it meant it had to be removed. The cable was not important.

It's called a clue.

It's supported by the fact that the money was not taken but left as it too was not important to the Thai fleeing the murder scene.

Finally, sex with 75 pound women usually means if it ll goes wrong you stand a chance of fighting them off. Sex with young lads ....... so people tell me and I do read a lot ................. they tend to be that bit stronger, younger, fitter, faster ............

I think you get it.

[kriswillems]

How many Thai people get killed in Pattaya?

Most probably much more than farangs, although the farang are a huge percentage of the population of that city.

Let's be honest, for being the biggest whorehouse in the world, Pattaya is still a relatively save place. This is a developing country. Police investigation are not of very high quality here (this is an understatement). The fact that this poor guy was a farang is irrelevant. I don't believe there's discrimination in murder cases. In fact, if a farang gets murdered, the investigation will most probably be even better than when a Thai gets killed.

People that don't want to get killed should avoid risks. Don't show your wealth, avoid conflicts and stay away from drugs and prostitution areas.

My condolences to the family.

[Tomtomtom69]

Aren't ID's required to be shown when farang bring Thai guests up to their rooms?

No. Where did you get that idea from. If a condo has a policy where guests have to show ID when visiting a resident, this would apply to all persons, not just westerners, but also local Thais, Africans, etc. In general however, no ID is required for someone to enter a building who is not a resident, especially if they are being accompanied by a resident or have a keycard and key provided by a resident.

[kohphangan]

So sad Rip

Maybe it's just me, but foreigners dying here in Thailand seems to be something that is on the increase.

We had a weird one here in Cha Am a few weeks back. A Russian guy checked into his guesthouse in the morning

and then later in the day he checked out of the world permanently.

The strange things about this are:

1. There has been no mention of this guys death in any papers that we can find.If a foreigner dies in Thailand, it usually make the news

2. He was found on/near a main road, very close to restaurants and business stabbed in the neck, but it apparently it has been deemed a suicide. I would think that if the guy wanted to commit suicide by stabbing himself, that his neck wouldn't be his first choice, nor would a main road be his choice of location, his hotel room maybe, somewhere quiet? I don't know, the whole thing seems a little off to me.

Usually makes the news?? I don't think so!! Lost count how many have died on KP this year,or last year or the one before that and i have never seen a single thing on this Forum.

[FarangTalk]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they’re deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

British Consulate said the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is eight times that of Britain.

That's just the murder rate, no motorcycle accidents etc.

[NewlyMintedThai]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they’re deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

British Consulate said the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is eight times that of Britain.

That's just the murder rate, no motorcycle accidents etc.

Do you have a web reference for that?

[Beetlejuice]

How many Thai people get killed in Pattaya?

Most probably much more than farangs, although the farang are a huge percentage of the population of that city.

Let's be honest, for being the biggest whorehouse in the world, Pattaya is still a relatively save place. This is a developing country. Police investigation are not of very high quality here (this is an understatement). The fact that this poor guy was a farang is irrelevant. I don't believe there's discrimination in murder cases. In fact, if a farang gets murdered, the investigation will most probably be even better than when a Thai gets killed.

People that don't want to get killed should avoid risks. Don't show your wealth, avoid conflicts and stay away from drugs and prostitution areas.

My condolences to the family.

Both Antpet and yourself make excellent points.

I do not believe that Westerners are victimised in Thailand, only the fact is that we are not given any real status here and will always be regarded as long-term tourists.

I do believe that to survive and stay prosperous in Thailand as an expat is to never place yourself into vulnerable situations. For example, avoid placing your assets and monies into the trust of Thais in the hope that the Thai person, whether being a wife, wife’s relatives or partner, friend, will continue to be loyal and be honourable, or in other words if the person decides to do a dirty tricks campaign on you, always keep the upper hand.

Stay well away from involving yourselves in any dodgy business and keep within the boundaries of Thai law at all times, even if you do not agree with them.

For those who have a need to take drugs or any other mind-bending substances, be cautious, as many of these drugs that maybe considered mild In the West, may contain toxic and lethal chemicals over here and could actually kill you.

If picking up a stranger for a sexual liaison, choose someone who is unlikely to be able to physically overpower you and not become a victim waiting to happen. If entertaining or partying with strangers, either out in a hotel room or at home, then have friends present there as well.

My intentions are not to preach or to try and convert anyone, but only passing on my advice as someone who has been in Thailand for a long while for reasons of safety. Whether or not some believe must be left up to their own judgements as it`s your lives.

I also give my condolences to the family.

[mancub]

These stories are usually followed by lots of posts making vacuous assumptions as to what happened or indeed why it happened.

But assumptions aside, we really need to learn from all these tragic situations. What measures can we take to prevent this happening to us. Let's face it, none of us want to meet with such a grisly end.

Stop renting prostitutes off the streets and taking them back home for sex might be a good place to start.

Also, never forget that a Lady Boy is actually a young fit strong athletic lad schooled in Muay Thai who can physically break the neck of, or in this case, cut the neck of the older, weaker victim.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Perhaps I should write a 'How to ...' guide for Pattaya. You know, cover the usual holiday stuff, best beach area, freshest papaya salad etc etc and also, not get murder by strangers you rent off the beach.

Just a thought only in my experience the people you may see at other tables in the restaurant or while collecting your laundry don't ever end up in your own home.

Why is that? you may ask. It's because we are wise enough not to invite complete strangers back to our homes.

Ask yourself while travelling down to Foodland and sharing the baht bus with 8 other travellers just how many you invited back home. Unless it was for casual sex I'd say your answer is none.

There you go then. Wrecklessness beyond belief and a life thrown away.

As for all you well meaning Colombo's out there .................... the lap top was removed most likely because of what it contained. The damaging evidence on it meant it had to be removed. The cable was not important.

It's called a clue.

It's supported by the fact that the money was not taken but left as it too was not important to the Thai fleeing the murder scene.

Finally, sex with 75 pound women usually means if it ll goes wrong you stand a chance of fighting them off. Sex with young lads ....... so people tell me and I do read a lot ................. they tend to be that bit stronger, younger, fitter, faster ............

I think you get it.

I,m not a budding Colombo and I agree with your advice , but if the laptop was taken for evidence , why did the police suspect theft as the motive , on the grounds that the wallet and the computer were missing ??The money they supposedly found after opening the safe . I know they can be incompetent at times, but ?

[Beetlejuice]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they're deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

British Consulate said the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is eight times that of Britain.

That's just the murder rate, no motorcycle accidents etc.

Do you have a web reference for that?

I have contacts here within the police force (not boasting, just a fact), and can tell you that the amount of farang deaths in proportion to the farangs living here is horrendous. Many, many go completely unreported. So what farangtalk has said, I have no problem in believing. And if we lump all the farangs together, regardless of nationality, than I guess that the death figures per year must be staggering.

[NewlyMintedThai]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they're deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

British Consulate said the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is eight times that of Britain.

That's just the murder rate, no motorcycle accidents etc.

Do you have a web reference for that?

I have contacts here within the police force (not boasting, just a fact), and can tell you that the amount of farang deaths in proportion to the farangs living here is horrendous. Many, many go completely unreported. So what farangtalk has said, I have no problem in believing. And if we lump all the farangs together, regardless of nationality, than I guess that the death figures per year must be staggering.

Former special forces, no doubt?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Slashed throat does not sound like woman's work.

My thought was a katoy. They're getting more numerous and more brazen there. Did the fellow have a thing for them?

All in all, sorry to hear. RIP ol' chap. My best friend up here in northernmost Thailand had a condo in Jomtien. A few years ago, he got smart and moved to a decent and safer locale, far away from Pattaya.

I have lived in Pattaya for over a decade, and have many friends who have as well, and narry a one of us has had any problems. Of course, we are way past the party boy stage and live rather sedate lives. I'm not condemning anyone's chosen lifestyle, only asking that you not slag on pattaya just because the pace of life is a little too fast for you and your friend.

[GentlemanJim]

These stories are usually followed by lots of posts making vacuous assumptions as to what happened or indeed why it happened.

But assumptions aside, we really need to learn from all these tragic situations. What measures can we take to prevent this happening to us. Let's face it, none of us want to meet with such a grisly end.

Don't brag about what you have, don't let people know you have a safe, do not display overtly, massive wealth in front of people in the local community, don't pi** people off by getting into unnecessary arguments with them, always remember that Thais can be very jealous of others and more so of farangs, do not start slipping one to a Thai mans wife or girl friend, in short in the Land of smiles, you will live long and prosper if you are Mr Grey!

Very sorry for the family involved in this tragedy.

[fasteddie]

I know how to solve this crime. First figure out the model of laptop stolen. Then go the small shops in Tukcon that sell power adapters for that particular laptop, and put them on alert. Then simply wait for her / him to show up.......

Why?

[Beetlejuice]

GentlemanJim`s post, the most common sense advice made on this thread so far.

My Grey, I like it and I will remember this one.

[Arkady]

German found murdered in his Jomtien Condominium

PATTAYA: -- Police responded to reports of a murdered foreigner in a Jomtien Condominium complex on Thursday after condo staff discovered the body of a German occupant of a 28th floor apartment.

Police made their way to the Metro Condotel Complex located at the far-end of Jomtien Beach and to the 28th floor apartment of Mr. Gunther Kiem aged 66. He was lying on the floor and had suffered a stab wound through his left should blade.

There were no signs of a struggle inside the apartment and it appeared that a Laptop Computer had been stolen as a power unit for the computer was found still plugged-in. Large amounts of Thai and Euro currency were found in the room.

Full story: http://www.pattayaon...en-condominium/

-- Pattaya One 2012-12-13

Interesting that the police couldn't be more specific about the exact amounts of euro and Thai currency that were found in the safe.

[Nisa]

And so we have another tragic and horrific farang death in Thailand to add to the statistics.

I am curious to know, how many farangs have died in Thailand during the last 3 years, including the categorisation of official causes of deaths and the circumstances leading up to they're deaths, including those who have been listed as missing?

The amount of farang deaths in Thailand according to the small percentage of farangs in the country I would guess are highly proportionate indeed.

British Consulate said the murder rate of Britons in Thailand is eight times that of Britain.

That's just the murder rate, no motorcycle accidents etc.

Do you have a web reference for that?

http://www.independe...ere-769640.html

According to this UK article there were 17 Brits murdered in Thailand from 2003 to 2008. Does this mean there were only about 8 in Briton during this time? I wonder how much higher the rate is for Britts committing crimes such as killing their wives are in Thailand?

There is another article titled "Thailand's Reputation Murdered by Statistics" which basically says that the murder rate in Thailand is 5x that if Briton and that Briton's are murdered at the same rate as locals. Some other interesting points were most murders were in Pattaya (where I assume the murder rate is higher) and that of all Britts killed abroad that 10% are in Thailand though visitors to Thailand from Briton make up only .6% of foreign travel from UK... although this is disproportional, I would guess the overwhelming foreign travel from the UK are to neigboring countries which also have a much lower overall murder rate.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Nisa

[BlackPuddingBertha]

In general however, no ID is required for someone to enter a building who is not a resident, especially if they are being accompanied by a resident or have a keycard and key provided by a resident.

In my experience many of the condos in Jomtien do ask for ID of visiting guests, assuming they realise that they are guests. My building certainly does.

Metro is a old building and the lobby area is in a spacious open-plan style that does not lend itself to good security. In fact it looks and feels quite like a large railway station. Also many units are often unoccupied, with few people in the corridors. So the perpetrators could have come from anywhere, and may not even have arrived with the victim.

[Bwanatickey]

He died of old age.

[dmcguire70]

I wonder which rubbish bin the CCTV footage ended up in?

[BarryM]

These stories are usually followed by lots of posts making vacuous assumptions as to what happened or indeed why it happened.

But assumptions aside, we really need to learn from all these tragic situations. What measures can we take to prevent this happening to us. Let's face it, none of us want to meet with such a grisly end.

Don't talk or interact with the local population at all, ever.

[cosmont]

How many farang died in Pattaya per year ? Per nationality ?

How many by "suicide", accident, sickness and MURDER ?

Interesting statistic to make...

If you know it, maybe you won't buy a condo in Pattaya Mr Farang...

[matt helm]

I know this forum caters mostly to foreigners but it does lead to false impressions to only report the deaths of foreigners and not anything about the locals. These deaths need to be viewed in the overall context of violence in Thailand. For example, I was unaware until recently just how many foreigners live in Pattaya and that needs to be taken into consideration when talking about the amount of deaths there.

[maidu]

Aren't ID's required to be shown when farang bring Thai guests up to their rooms?

No. Where did you get that idea from. If a condo has a policy where guests have to show ID when visiting a resident, this would apply to all persons, not just westerners, but also local Thais, Africans, etc. In general however, no ID is required for someone to enter a building who is not a resident, especially if they are being accompanied by a resident or have a keycard and key provided by a resident.

I happen to know first-hand you're wrong. I stayed in Jomtien high rise, and showing ID's was required for Thai guests (not for farang guests) - at that place, anyway. Neither you nor I know the enforced policy at every place there. I was asking whether that's enforced policy at the highrise in question.

[maidu]

Slashed throat does not sound like woman's work.

My thought was a katoy. They're getting more numerous and more brazen there. Did the fellow have a thing for them?

All in all, sorry to hear. RIP ol' chap. My best friend up here in northernmost Thailand had a condo in Jomtien. A few years ago, he got smart and moved to a decent and safer locale, far away from Pattaya.

Yes, but a stab between the shoulder blades, as had been reported, could easily be the work of an angry women.

could have been.... yes, that's what investigators are for. I was just mentioning my gut feeling - that the most likely perpetrator was a katoy. I could be wrong.

I would also venture that, the reason farang deaths are under-reported (as claimed in earlier post) is simply because it looks bad for Pattaya and Thai tourism in general. Pattaya is one of the cash cows of Thailans' tourist industry. If there's a mysterious death of a farang in any Thai tourist area, TAT would rather have it be hushed up. Only when they can't keep the cat in the bag is it reported. Even less often is it investigated with any professionalism.

[saroq]

Looked the same as it usually did ... apart from the poor dead guy on the floor ....

Exactly my thoughts...'oh and that daft <deleted> in the corner'

Unreal falangs lives real aren't worth a jot...RIP...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

At least they're not claiming that he committed suicide.

[lostintime]

I'm really sorry for the unfortunate German man and his family. RIP.

Does it really matter who done it? Lady, katoy, jealous husband? I presume it was done by a Thai person. I know I don't have to be correct in this instance but I think it's most likely. There are so many other, recent instances of violence against foreigners perpetrated here. So, the real question should be: "Is pulling a knife on a foreigner more likely for some Thais than if another Thai person was involved?" I think the answer to it is YES. And why? Because the foreigners don't belong here, they are "different blood", they are "aliens" and "invaders", are ugly, smelly, fat, bad behaved and are not welcomed here. Only their money is. This country officially discriminates against foreigners and this message gets into some people's minds. So, if they have some problems they contribute to a foreigner they are more likely to deal with it violently. They know that foreigners have little rights here and they will most likely be covered by Thai justice, Thai people and Thai system. I witnessed that "syndrome" first hand by myself. We are all in the same boat here so we should draw some conclusions from increasing number of horrible incidents like this and stop sticking our heads in the sand. We should voice our outrage, demand equal rights, fight against xenophobia, end official discrimination and do our best to protect ourselves at the same time. And please, don't even bother to tell me to "go back to my country" if I don't like it here. Because this is my planet.

Well said, I have left, in Cambodia now. I don't feel the same racism here. Early days, but so far in that respect it feels far better.