Short-Sighted Car Policy Adds To Bangkok Traffic Woes: Opinion

[webfact]

STREETWISE

Short-sighted car policy adds to traffic woes

Achara Deboonme

BANGKOK: -- Having lived in Bangkok for over 20 years, I share the view of most Bangkokians that the city's traffic is getting worse. Twenty years ago, I spent 45 minutes getting from Bang Na to Phetchaburi Road by bus. Now, even in a taxi, it can take more than an hour. By train, travelling time is shortened to half an hour. Yes, most Bangkokians see the need for more electric train lines, particularly as new cars keep hitting the road when many old cars are not yet expired.

With only two lines now against the fast expansion of greater Bangkok, the existing road space cannot keep pace with the increasing number of commuters and vehicles.

The longer Bangkok keeps drawing business, the more people are drawn to the city. The more housing estates are expanded to suburban areas, the higher the number of vehicles to be expected. At condominiums, car parks - normally at the ratio of 60 per cent of all units - are always full at night, and double parking is common.

A German expert on urban planning said while in Bangkok that any big city should maximise land use. Keep downtown development horizontal, to ensure proper infrastructure, he said. Some Thai developers, however, are planning to develop single houses in key business districts. They say the rich can afford such houses and want to live in city areas, and should be offered such products.

To the expert, cities can be expanded only when the authorities know that they can extend infrastructure to cover new areas.

It's not the case for Bangkok. The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration has been criticised for extending property development permission without consulting infrastructure-related authorities. The practice remains, and infrastructure-related authorities have to handle public complaints.

In a city with poor public transport, everyone dreams of owning a car, despite fuel costs. Two decades ago, when taxi fares were negotiable, it was easier to find a taxi. Now, most drivers tend to serve familiar areas, so they can reset the meter and earn the Bt35 start-up fare more often. It can take a while to get a cab from Ram Indra to downtown. It is out of question to get a cab to take you from there to the western part of Bangkok like Bang Khae.

The choices are more limited for lower middle-income earners, for whom public buses are the only option. Now, bus routes are shortened to ease traffic. Living far from the workplace, some people must jump off a bus to catch another.

It heartens me to think about a few years from now when two more electric train routes - the Blue and Purple lines - will commence. I more than welcome the plans of the Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning for more lines, to create a proper mass transit network. The Securities and Exchange Commission will also allow BTS Group Holdings to raise public funds on the back of future fares. The planning is there, with new choices for fund mobilisation.

The investment is worthwhile, given that the number of vehicles will only rise, in line with a growing population, if public transport remains poor. It does not surprise me that the average speed of traffic in Bangkok fell from last year, as the number of vehicles rose by more than 10 per cent from last year to over 7 million. Seeing ambulances stuck in traffic is horrible.

Yet, it saddens me to learn that the government's first-car buyer scheme is going to cost taxpayers' Bt80 billion based on an estimate that 900,000 vehicles will be covered by a rebate. The policy should not have been launched in the first place. Given higher oil prices and growing concern about climate change, no government in the world should launch such a policy that will only raise fuel import bills and carbon emissions.

Buyers of hybrid cars (unfortunately priced at more than Bt1 million) are not part of the scheme, though these cars consume less fuel and generate less CO2. It is also wrong that pickups are part of the scheme, when they already enjoy diesel subsidies. (Sadly, few complain about this, though the subsidies come from the pockets of petrol car owners, not the government's purse.)

At Bt80 billion, the bill is high enough to fund a train line. It is enough to fund either the 27-km Blue Line (Bang Sue-Hualampong) or the 23-km Purple Line (Bang Yai-Bang Sue), plus park-and-ride buildings, which could reduce the number of vehicles on the streets.

Laymen can be short-sighted, and that's why we need far-sighted policy-makers. Indeed, the Pheu Thai Party should be credited for being the first to think about a proper mass transit network.

I'm in my mid-40s now, and given the life expectancy of over 70, I should remain alive for three more decades. Yes, I envision the day when I fall ill and urgently need an ambulance. Hopefully, there will be more train lines and fewer cars on the streets. Or I will certainly die before the ambulance can crawl to my home and get me to hospital.

-- The Nation 2012-12-18

[Thai at Heart]

With only two lines now against the fast expansion of greater Bangkok, the existing road space cannot keep pace with the increasing number of commuters and vehicles.

Bangkok has one of the least ratios of road space in downtown of any major city. It was overloaded when the horse and cart was around.

[waza]

Well it seems that the PTP government has the opposite of the midas touch, every policy that they implement turns to poo. I guess thats what you get when you have a cabinet of no hopers run by a criminal from Dubai.

[ChrisY1]

Rice field politics !!

[rkidlad]

"They say the rich can afford such houses and want to live in city areas, and should be offered such products"

Jesus! Even if they can afford it, it's not practical!

If I'm stinking rich, can I have a statue of myself put in the middle of a busy road? I'm rich and can afford it.

[DaamNaam]

If you think you're going to need an ambulance move towns. Easy.

[zakk9]

It's too late for Bangkok. Sometimes, I wonder why they bother. The new car subsidies is just another nail in the coffin of a city that is dying from lack of planning, endless greed and explosive over eating. It used to be one of the most charming cities on earth, but that is vaning too, as old time attractions are being demolished to build more shopping malls and luxury condos, shopping malls where I struggle to find products that can't be found anywhere in the world, often at similar prices.

For some reason, the Thai government, and a lot of the country's inhabitants, seem to think that the number of cars per capita is a relevant way of meassuring progress as well as standard of living without looking at other parameters. It's interesting to see how the parking space under many buildings with 2-4,000 baht rooms is filled up with shiny new cars, cars that often cost much more than the dwellings of their owners.

[tig28]

Well it seems that the PTP government has the opposite of the midas touch, every policy that they implement turns to poo. I guess thats what you get when you have a cabinet of no hopers run by a criminal from Dubai.

It would seem that this poster does not like the Government

It is a bit of a shame that the electorate has disagreed with him in every election this century --- but obviously he knows better.

As far as the results of the new car rebate policy ..... as reported in The Nation (14/12):

"As of October 31, car registrations in Bangkok had revved up to 7,384,934, of which 296,553 were for new cars bought under the first-car policy."

It is blindingly obvious that this 4% increase in vehicles on the road is the absolute cause of all of Bangkok's traffic problems.

The current Nation article states:

"Yet, it saddens me to learn that the government's first-car buyer scheme is going to cost taxpayers' Bt80 billion based on an estimate that 900,000 vehicles will be covered by a rebate."

Is yet another ill-informed sensationalized distortion of both the facts and the intent of the tax rebate -- as the rebate is from the tax on vehicles that would not have been sold without the program. The program was designed to be cost neutral and almost certainly is!!.

If anyone imagines that the scheme has not achieved its primary aim of boosting sales of new vehicles to assist the Thai car factories savaged by the November 2011 floods -----I suggest you read here:

"A record 1,000,577 new cars found a new home in Thailand over the first 9 months of 2012, up a huge 71% year-on-year!

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

[noitom]

It's too late for Bangkok. Sometimes, I wonder why they bother. The new car subsidies is just another nail in the coffin of a city that is dying from lack of planning, endless greed and explosive over eating. It used to be one of the most charming cities on earth, but that is vaning too, as old time attractions are being demolished to build more shopping malls and luxury condos, shopping malls where I struggle to find products that can't be found anywhere in the world, often at similar prices.

For some reason, the Thai government, and a lot of the country's inhabitants, seem to think that the number of cars per capita is a relevant way of meassuring progress as well as standard of living without looking at other parameters. It's interesting to see how the parking space under many buildings with 2-4,000 baht rooms is filled up with shiny new cars, cars that often cost much more than the dwellings of their owners.

Most Thais spend much more on their cars, trucks and even motorcycles. As soon as they get their hands on some cash via a death, swindle or other windfall, the first thing they think of is a new car or truck. I have seen endless photos of Thai families with no teeth standing in front of 3-4 shiny new trucks.

[nev]

Sorry but not everyone lives in Bangkok, this policy was brought in for the whole of Thailand and a lot of families are very happy with the rebates and new cars recieved!!.

Bangkok has been a caar infested city for way to long, the answer is not less cars but better roads and infrastructure thats should have been address a long time before now.

Maybe they should implement a odd and even days on the number plates last number, that would have the traffic

[zakk9]

Is yet another ill-informed sensationalized distortion of both the facts and the intent of the tax rebate -- as the rebate is from the tax on vehicles that would not have been sold without the program. The program was designed to be cost neutral and almost certainly is!!.

How do you know that the cars wouldn't have been sold without the program?

If anyone imagines that the scheme has not achieved its primary aim of boosting sales of new vehicles to assist the Thai car factories savaged by the November 2011 floods -----I suggest you read here:

"A record 1,000,577 new cars found a new home in Thailand over the first 9 months of 2012, up a huge 71% year-on-year!

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

The "Thai car factories savaged by the November 2011 floods" are all owned by huge multinational corporations. I'm sure they are happy for any gift they get from any government, but strictly speaking: they should be more than capable of managing on their own. I even suspect that some of them might have insurance that covers last year's losses. In a country where millions of people struggle to make the ends meet more or less every day, and where public transport is of true third world standard, this is nothing but a way to buy votes from young people and to assure the auto industry that they have the full support of the government.

One can of course always claim that the state of public transport in Thailand makes owning a car a necessity, but that's not a sustainable policy long term.

[zakk9]

Sorry but not everyone lives in Bangkok, this policy was brought in for the whole of Thailand and a lot of families are very happy with the rebates and new cars recieved!!.

Obviously. Who wouldn't be?

Bangkok has been a caar infested city for way to long, the answer is not less cars but better roads and infrastructure thats should have been address a long time before now.

No city in the world has managed to solve it's traffic problems only by building roads. Bangkok is particularly tricky, since it wasn't planned with cars in mind at all. It doesn't help building new motorways into the city when there isn't space enough for more cars once you get off the multilane road. Public transport is needed, but with the speed and lack of coordination it's happening in Bangkok, I wouldn't expect wonders.

Maybe they should implement a odd and even days on the number plates last number, that would have the traffic

Yeah... and if people then could go to work only every second day, the problem would be solved, wouldn't it?

[devilish]

Something that Thailand does do good w/ cars is promote (or force?) the purchase of small-displacement, fuel-efficient ~ 4cylinder engine cars. It was something that used to piss me off, but makes a lot of sense for efficiency and reducing the cost of fueling a car.

Of course, the Japanese have so many years of experience making this type of car. Japanese companies dominate the Thai market: how they developed this domination over so many years is something to be respected, no doubt.

Regarding the traffic: could FASTER speed limits help to move traffic better ? The intricate (& unorganized?) layout of roads/tollways/freeways/soi's probably slows things down. I'd assume tollbooths help meter the flow of traffic onto/out the highways. . .

[harryfrompattaya]

With only two lines now against the fast expansion of greater Bangkok, the existing road space cannot keep pace with the increasing number of commuters and vehicles.

Bangkok has one of the least ratios of road space in downtown of any major city. It was overloaded when the horse and cart was around.

Maybe next year only people with the nickname Harry should be able to buy a car.

One can not stop people for wanting cars if they have the money

[whimsy]

If anyone imagines that the scheme has not achieved its primary aim of boosting sales of new vehicles to assist the Thai car factories savaged by the November 2011 floods -----I suggest you read here:

"A record 1,000,577 new cars found a new home in Thailand over the first 9 months of 2012, up a huge 71% year-on-year!

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

PTP must have planned the floods then? The first car buyers rebate was announced in August 2011, well before there was any flooding of car plants or suppliers.

http://www.thaivisa....y/#entry4634427

[culicine]

If you think you're going to need an ambulance move towns. Easy.

At least road deaths should decrease as traffic will be reduced to a crawl in many areas

There's a huge lack of urban planning in BKK, and has been for decades. Now train lines all need to be elevated, massively increasing costs.

Traffic is already bad in my area and getting worse as villages spring up all over the place. The outlook is bleak if you happen to drive (your nice new cheap) car here...

[culicine]

Something that Thailand does do good w/ cars is promote (or force?) the purchase of small-displacement, fuel-efficient ~ 4cylinder engine cars. It was something that used to piss me off, but makes a lot of sense for efficiency and reducing the cost of fueling a car.

Of course, the Japanese have so many years of experience making this type of car. Japanese companies dominate the Thai market: how they developed this domination over so many years is something to be respected, no doubt.

Regarding the traffic: could FASTER speed limits help to move traffic better ? The intricate (& unorganized?) layout of roads/tollways/freeways/soi's probably slows things down. I'd assume tollbooths help meter the flow of traffic onto/out the highways. . .

Increasing taxes, reducing the rebate, would help get some of the larger pickups off the road. Two of them are equivalent to the size of three small cars...many pickups seem to be bought here because you can load them up with passengers and they are relatively cheap. Of course it's a double edge sword as that would hurt (mostly farmers) who genuinely need a pickup.

[zakk9]

With only two lines now against the fast expansion of greater Bangkok, the existing road space cannot keep pace with the increasing number of commuters and vehicles.

Bangkok has one of the least ratios of road space in downtown of any major city. It was overloaded when the horse and cart was around.

Maybe next year only people with the nickname Harry should be able to buy a car.

One can not stop people for wanting cars if they have the money

- One can stop subsidising cars to first time buyers. I don't think any other nations subside cars to first time buyers. If you can't afford a car, take the bus or train.

- One can stop subsidising gas (LPG) that is widely used to run cars in Thailand. The gas for cars is cheaper even than in the oil and gas rich countries in the Middle East.

- One can build a proper public transport system, giving people a realistic alternative to cars. Although the Sky-Train seemed like a good start when it opened, very little has happened after that, and the standard of the city buses in Bangkok is lower now than it was 15 years ago.

- One can coordinate the building and management of the public transport system, making it faster en more affordable. Bangkok must be the only major city in the world where rail-based public transport isn't coordinated through one authority and where there isn't one ticket system with free transfer between lines. That's quite an achievement considering the very low number of lines here, and the fact that Bangkok had a golden opportunity to make a state-of-the-art system when starting from scratch. If that policy is continued, taking rail-based public transport in Bangkok will be more expensive in Bangkok than in most other Asian cities if it takes more than one line to reach the destination.

[fakename]

I wonder who is actually buying these subsidized cars. Knowing the way some people can use the system to their advantage, I would suspect that many of these cars are going to rich families, either directly or after being bought by an eligible buyer, then sold, one way or another, to more well off people. And the cars that are actually bought by honest people, how long are they able to keep up payments, since many may have bought more than they can pay for. Anyway, thats all Thailand needs, is more cars on the road, and driven by people without a clue about driving. Most of us have started our driving career with cheap cars, that could barely move down the road, and can appreciate a good car, once we have EARNED it.

[Crushdepth]

If you think you're going to need an ambulance move towns. Easy.

I was behind an ambulance on the way home from work a few weeks ago. The worst part - they drove straight past a pretty good (and presumably, competing) hospital and plunged into the rush hour traffic on the highway, which was a mess. Can only hope the patient wasn't in need of fast treatment.

[Nickymaster]

Well it seems that the PTP government has the opposite of the midas touch, every policy that they implement turns to poo. I guess thats what you get when you have a cabinet of no hopers run by a criminal from Dubai.

Short term gains vs long term gains.

PT will do everything to please potential voters to build support to whitewash Thaksin. It is destroying the country but PT and Thaksin don't seem to care and the voters don't seem to get it. Every major city with huge traffic problems is trying to decrease the amount of cars on the road. PT is trying to increase the amount of cars on the road. It is just a joke.

Many Thai voters don't seem to worry or know about the long term effects of all these policies. For example, PT has already destroyed the rice market. With a bit of luck Thailand will export halve of what Vietnam will export next year. 2 years ago Thailand was the largest exporter in the world.

It seems that not only the politicians are greedy; the average Thai person is as greedy it seems.

But hey, Thaksin has a good propaganda machine so we cannot but all the blame on the blind voters.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Nickymaster

[NoshowJones]

If you think you're going to need an ambulance move towns. Easy.

Not so easy, I have never once saw a Thai driver pull in and let an ambulance pass.

[NoshowJones]

Sorry but not everyone lives in Bangkok, this policy was brought in for the whole of Thailand and a lot of families are very happy with the rebates and new cars recieved!!.

Obviously. Who wouldn't be?

Bangkok has been a caar infested city for way to long, the answer is not less cars but better roads and infrastructure thats should have been address a long time before now.

No city in the world has managed to solve it's traffic problems only by building roads. Bangkok is particularly tricky, since it wasn't planned with cars in mind at all. It doesn't help building new motorways into the city when there isn't space enough for more cars once you get off the multilane road. Public transport is needed, but with the speed and lack of coordination it's happening in Bangkok, I wouldn't expect wonders.

Maybe they should implement a odd and even days on the number plates last number, that would have the traffic

Yeah... and if people then could go to work only every second day, the problem would be solved, wouldn't it?

No, there is such a thing as car sharing, and if that can't be done, then there is public transport which is very cheap and would move much quicker with only half the cars on the road.

[KhunOr]

It's too late for Bangkok. Sometimes, I wonder why they bother. The new car subsidies is just another nail in the coffin of a city that is dying from lack of planning, endless greed and explosive over eating. It used to be one of the most charming cities on earth, but that is vaning too, as old time attractions are being demolished to build more shopping malls and luxury condos, shopping malls where I struggle to find products that can't be found anywhere in the world, often at similar prices.

For some reason, the Thai government, and a lot of the country's inhabitants, seem to think that the number of cars per capita is a relevant way of meassuring progress as well as standard of living without looking at other parameters. It's interesting to see how the parking space under many buildings with 2-4,000 baht rooms is filled up with shiny new cars, cars that often cost much more than the dwellings of their owners.

Most Thais spend much more on their cars, trucks and even motorcycles. As soon as they get their hands on some cash via a death, swindle or other windfall, the first thing they think of is a new car or truck. I have seen endless photos of Thai families with no teeth standing in front of 3-4 shiny new trucks.

I have seen endless geriatric farang with no teeth in front of their shiny new trucks too.

[antpet]

This like all other problems in Thialand comes down to abuse by those with the power rather than the influence of those with the intellect.

Hence, everything is for sale. Nothing is to be done correctly as the quick buck from corruption constantly rules.

Under this present and ever continuous thinking where a single corrupting influence - Thaksin - holds sway nothing that is ever 'first world' [traffic management] will be improved or organised in Thailand.

It is as if the Thais are totally incompetent. The dark ages having been replaced with the 21 st century over night.

The future will be grid lock and more pollution poisoning the hi-so thais who are daft enough - and we know just how daft they are - to live in a polluted city with lead billowing black soot polluting traffic.

Edited December 18, 2012 by antpet

[tig28]

How do you know that the cars wouldn't have been sold without the program?

Well I suppose that the immense increase in cars produced (up 71% over the same time period last year) could have been caused by the phases of the moon or maybe just plain happenstance ... but not really likely. Much more from this:

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

[Nisa]

"They say the rich can afford such houses and want to live in city areas, and should be offered such products"

Jesus! Even if they can afford it, it's not practical!

If I'm stinking rich, can I have a statue of myself put in the middle of a busy road? I'm rich and can afford it.

I am confused why they even put this in the article. If you are talking about controlling traffic wouldn't it be better to build a single family home in a spot than a 100 room apartment or condo complex? If somebody can afford to blow money by putting a family home in such an area, not sure why anyone should complain.

[lensta]

It's too late for Bangkok. Sometimes, I wonder why they bother. The new car subsidies is just another nail in the coffin of a city that is dying from lack of planning, endless greed and explosive over eating. It used to be one of the most charming cities on earth, but that is vaning too, as old time attractions are being demolished to build more shopping malls and luxury condos, shopping malls where I struggle to find products that can't be found anywhere in the world, often at similar prices.

For some reason, the Thai government, and a lot of the country's inhabitants, seem to think that the number of cars per capita is a relevant way of meassuring progress as well as standard of living without looking at other parameters. It's interesting to see how the parking space under many buildings with 2-4,000 baht rooms is filled up with shiny new cars, cars that often cost much more than the dwellings of their owners.

Most Thais spend much more on their cars, trucks and even motorcycles. As soon as they get their hands on some cash via a death, swindle or other windfall, the first thing they think of is a new car or truck. I have seen endless photos of Thai families with no teeth standing in front of 3-4 shiny new trucks.

I have seen endless geriatric farang with no teeth in front of their shiny new trucks too.

Really?, I haven't actually seen that many farang without teeth in Thailand. They usually come to Thailand to get their teeth fixed.

[zakk9]

How do you know that the cars wouldn't have been sold without the program?

Well I suppose that the immense increase in cars produced (up 71% over the same time period last year) could have been caused by the phases of the moon or maybe just plain happenstance ... but not really likely. Much more from this:

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

You may be right, but usually, big discounts attract a lot of buyers who have already made a buying decision. If I should guess, it's around 50/50. An increase from last year was expected anyway, since sales the last two months in 2011 were down due to the flooding, pushing deliveries into 2012.

[Nisa]

How do you know that the cars wouldn't have been sold without the program?

Well I suppose that the immense increase in cars produced (up 71% over the same time period last year) could have been caused by the phases of the moon or maybe just plain happenstance ... but not really likely. Much more from this:

http://bestsellingca...the-first-time/

While there is little doubt that more people will have purchased a car when incentives are offered, many would have bought a car anyway and others simply made their purchase earlier than they would have to take advantage of the savings.

I couldn't find more recent info but below are the most recent years I could find in terms of number of vehicles registered in Thailand. Keep in mind these include all vehicles (motorcycles & trucks) but gives an idea of percentage of increase each year.

2000 - -20,835,684

2001 - -22,589,185

2002 - -24,517,250

2003 - -26,378,862

** In 2004 Change made in the way of how and/or what the counted as a registered vehicle.

2004 - - 20,624,719

2005 - - 22,571,062

2006 - - 24,807,297

Edit: Source http://www.grspasia....df/Thailand.pdf

Edited December 18, 2012 by Nisa