Watch Out For Govt Tricks On Thai Charter Change, Jurin Warns

[webfact]

Watch out for govt tricks on charter change, Jurin warns

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The government might try some trick with a public referendum in order to succeed in its push to write an entirely new constitution, the opposition chief whip warned yesterday.

Jurin Laksanawisit, who is a senior Democrat MP, said that judging from Cabinet's reluctance to go ahead and hold a plebiscite on changes to the Constitution, he suspected the government may resort to some trick.

He said there were at least two issues worth close scrutiny.

First, the government may turn the possible referendum into one to seek advice, rather than one to achieve a final determination. But the latter would require a majority of votes to pass.

Secondly, Jurin said, there was an attempt to amend the law so less support was required for the move to rewrite the charter via a referendum.

Article 165 of the Constitution states that a referendum may be conducted when Cabinet wants to consult the public about any issue that may affect national or public interest, and in the case where a referendum is required by law.

"A referendum … may be conducted in order to achieve a final determination, by a majority of votes cast by persons having the right to vote at a referendum, on a problematic issue to which the referendum relates, or may be conducted for giving advice to the Council of Ministers," the clause says.

Jurin said the opposition whips would wait and see the next move by the government about this matter before taking further action.

On Tuesday, Cabinet postponed a decision on whether to hold a referendum on amendments to the constitution. Instead, it set up a new working group to study and determine the process of holding a referendum, as well as the laws and regulations involved, in order to find a suitable method.

Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday the postponement indicated that the government was just focusing on rewriting the constitution to help former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra out of his legal problems.

"The government is walking in circles to help its big boss, although in fact it should focus on solving problems for people," Abhisit said.

"This referendum will provide a good chance for people to show that it's time to move on. As long as the government still wants to clear all the legal cases for Thaksin, the country will continue to have this kind of burden."

PM's Office Minister Varathep Ratanakorn said Cabinet wanted more time to prepare a referendum.

"Without careful preparation, there will be confusion. The referendum will run into problems and there will be conflict [between both sides]," he said.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said failure to get enough support in the referendum would hit the government's stability. People would want the government to be responsible for spending as much as Bt2 billion to hold the referendum.

Anutin Charnweerakul, leader of opposition Bhum Jai Thai Party, said the government should avoid "precarious issues" in its push for changes to the charter although he said he was convinced it had good intentions. He declined to say if Thaksin was a "precarious issue".

-- The Nation 2012-12-20

[chainarong]

What , the government pulling shonky tricks, no, what Government would do things like this, Every bloody one of them , world wide.

[righteous]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

Edited December 20, 2012 by righteous

[Thaddeus]

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election -

Of course, the free Tab Pcs, 300 Baht a day and rice pledging scheme were only minor concerns to the voters.

[bigbamboo]

The government might try some some tricks to fool people?

I see nothing gets past the astute Khun Jurin..... clearly one to watch in the future!

Edited December 20, 2012 by bigbamboo

[Thait Spot]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

You are doing an extreme disservice to a document going back many decades. The Constitution does not have its "roots" in the 2007 changes to it. Referring to it as you have done is an insult to Thai history.

Now please inform us all exactly what changes will be made and how it will benefit the Thai people because I don't think you know.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[righteous]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

You are doing an extreme disservice to a document going back many decades. The Constitution does not have its "roots" in the 2007 changes to it. Referring to it as you have done is an insult to Thai history.

Now please inform us all exactly what changes will be made and how it will benefit the Thai people because I don't think you know.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

What changes will be made in light of why they need to be made, have not been pre-determined.

The need for changes however, are self evident, as listed below:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

Edited December 20, 2012 by righteous

[seajae]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

So you want the reds to be able to do as they please and change the laws purely for their boss. Wow, thats really unbiased of you, did it ever occur to you that no political party should be able to change the constitution so easily, in Austrlia they need around 2/3rds of the vote to do so, that way you dont get people like the reds running the country as they see fit. You really should try using an open mind on this instead of the red biased one you keep running.

[khunken]

Instead of the pretend reasons for amending the constitution, here are some of the real ones:

* the CC has not been infiltrated - abolish or emasculate it

* the NACC is making too much noise - ditto

* lunch boxes are a legal defence

* the Senate should be elected so wives, mia nois, relatives, acolytes etc can make it a party extension

* the DSI should be the model for all quasi-government bodies

* the Electoral Commission should be abolished

* vote buying should be legal

* any party receiving less than 50% of the vote gets no seats

* all protestors must wear red or be arrested &/or tear gassed, including journalists

and so on.............

[rixalex]

What changes will be made in light of why they need to be made, have not been pre-determined.

It feels like we are communicating directly with Yingluck.... i thought only she could come out with something so ridiculously nonsensical as that.

The need for changes however, are self evident, as listed below:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

With respect, what a load of meaningless political-speak guff.

And the gal of someone from the red side to be advocating improved checks and balances! You must be having a laugh... like a government led by Thaksin has any interest in checks and balances...in judiciary.

[indyuk]

What , the government pulling shonky tricks, no, what Government would do things like this, Every bloody one of them , world wide.

[indyuk]

Its just politics my friends.

[siampolee]

Interesting to note that righteous never gives the credit to the original author in any of his or her posts.

Plagiarism at its best from a number of different sources which proves beyond doubt righteous is nothing more than a troll.

Very reminiscent of a recently banned poster and their style.

[Thait Spot]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

You are doing an extreme disservice to a document going back many decades. The Constitution does not have its "roots" in the 2007 changes to it. Referring to it as you have done is an insult to Thai history.

Now please inform us all exactly what changes will be made and how it will benefit the Thai people because I don't think you know.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

What changes will be made in light of why they need to be made, have not been pre-determined.

The need for changes however, are self evident, as listed below:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

Political parties are indeed supported provided they don't break the electoral law especially electoral law.

So 'self-evident' that they cannot be listed by the assembled intelligentsia of the PTP.

Independent organisations such as the UDD that neither elects its leaders nor was elected by a single voter yet wields undue power over an elected government.

The checks and balances are needed to prevent rogue politicians from removing them or putting patsies in charge of them.

Your comment about the constitution is straight out of the red book and holds no weight whatsoever. The vast majority of it stems from the birth of democracy in Thailand.

The charter creates zero division among the population who care not a jot about it as it has zero impact on their lives.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Moruya]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

You are doing an extreme disservice to a document going back many decades. The Constitution does not have its "roots" in the 2007 changes to it. Referring to it as you have done is an insult to Thai history.

Now please inform us all exactly what changes will be made and how it will benefit the Thai people because I don't think you know.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

What changes will be made in light of why they need to be made, have not been pre-determined.

The need for changes however, are self evident, as listed below:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

Another post for the compost heap. I shall print it off, shred it and duly deposit it where it will do some good

[Pimay1]

>The Democrat Party in both its' opposition to changing a coup-rooted charter, and Abhisit's persistent efforts to change the conversation to Thaksin within constitution amendment discussions, is amplified in this article. It won't help them broaden their political appeal nationally......This is too bad, when a two-party political system is desirable. When one Party is not in an electively competitive position, does a disservive to Electoral Democracy.

>Constitutional reform was a basic plank of the PTP which led to their election - the Democrat Party lost - so get over it already....... Also, to link oneself so closely to a coup-based document, also strongly serves to associate them with the coup-based administration. It seems that distancing oneself from such undemocratic practices would be good for future political success. Broadening political appeal should be job #1 for the Democrat Party IMHO. Their strategy in this instance narrows it.(116)

You are doing an extreme disservice to a document going back many decades. The Constitution does not have its "roots" in the 2007 changes to it. Referring to it as you have done is an insult to Thai history.

Now please inform us all exactly what changes will be made and how it will benefit the Thai people because I don't think you know.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

What changes will be made in light of why they need to be made, have not been pre-determined.

The need for changes however, are self evident, as listed below:

The present constitution does not support political parties but undermines them.

Under the constitution, procedures to create independent organizations and select their members lack public participation and go against the principle of democracy.

Independent organizations and the judiciary are allowed to operate without a system of checks and balances, which adversely affects the justice system and results in double standards.

Moreover, the constitution is undemocratic as it resulted from the 2006 coup.

The charter creates divisions among the public, which necessitates drawing up a new and a more democratic constitution.

From whom have we heard this same nonsense in the past so many times. Talk about a broken record. Edited December 22, 2012 by Pimay1

[Skywalker69]

Interesting to note that righteous never gives the credit to the original author in any of his or her posts.

Plagiarism at its best from a number of different sources which proves beyond doubt righteous is nothing more than a troll.

Very reminiscent of a recently banned poster and their style.

There are som banned members back with new nics.

[whybother]

(116)

Page 116 of the Red Shirt Propaganda Manual. How many pages does this Propaganda manual have?

Sent from my HTC phone.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

After observing Thaksin's behavior since the mid 80's I fully understand why Jurin says all Thais should watch out for govt trick on charter change. After Thaksin was removed from power, Chamlong Srimuang, the former leader of the Palang Dharma Party expressed regret at getting "such a corrupt person" into politics. I have not always agreed to what Chamlong has done, but he was right regarding Thaksin.