Rubbish And More Rubbish

[donkeykong]

2 satangs worth...

Most thais couldn't really care less. Most can't afford to. Most haven't received enough education to care. You're looking at a generation before a recycling mindset kicks in.

There's no proper social welfare system. In a society where "you're on your own mate" and it's "up to buddha", the 'recycling of plastic bags' is hardly at the top of the tree.

Corruption is the order of the day. Local government and the court system is NOT set up to enforce bureacratic regulations and enforce bylaws... you'll get ignored or laughed at by the locals.

The vast majority of tourists aren't here long enough to consider or care about their impact, and would assume that that's the role of the local community to organise anyway.

If you raise a fuss and ruffle feathers, your local 'hosts and landlords' will quickly bring you down to earth with a heavy thud, reminding you that this is NOT YOUR COUNTRY.

Wealthy thais are the worst. Now they really couldn't care less! especially about the comments coming from whiney expats.

Everything here is about the pecking order and where you stand in/on/under it.

Try getting your thai missus to pull the strings with local government here, and when she DOES GIVE UP (or not even try) I suggest you bow to her ultimate thai wisdom and follow suit. Otherwise on the whole, you are simply tilting at windmills.

It never fails to amaze me how so many expats (who should know better) think that as a community they have some influence here or that things here could one day 'evolve' to euro/septic style society.

Thai Rak Thai. Period.

Money talks. Having wealthy influential thai friends in high places...... well that talks better!

Edited March 1, 2006 by donkeykong

[Mobi]

2 satangs worth...

Most thais couldn't really care less. Most can't afford to. Most haven't received enough education to care. You're looking at a generation before a recycling mindset kicks in.

There's no proper social welfare system. In a society where "you're on your own mate" and it's "up to buddha", the 'recycling of plastic bags' is hardly at the top of the tree.

Corruption is the order of the day. Local government and the court system is NOT set up to enforce bureacratic regulations and enforce bylaws... you'll get ignored or laughed at by the locals.

The vast majority of tourists aren't here long enough to consider or care about their impact, and would assume that that's the role of the local community to organise anyway.

If you raise a fuss and ruffle feathers, your local 'hosts and landlords' will quickly bring you down to earth with a heavy thud, reminding you that this is NOT YOUR COUNTRY.

Wealthy thais are the worst. Now they really couldn't care less! especially about the comments coming from whiney expats.

Everything here is about the pecking order and where you stand in/on/under it.

Try getting your thai missus to pull the strings and when she DOES GIVE UP (or not even try) I suggest you bow to her ultimate thai wisdom and follow suit. Otherwise on the whole, you are simply tilting at windmills.

It never fails to amaze me how so many expats (who should know better) think that as a community they have some influence here or they things here could one day 'evolve' to euro/septic style soceity.

Thai Rak Thai. Period.

Money talks. Having wealthy influential thai friends in high places...... well that talks better!

What a brilliant post!! I agree with every word.

Doesn't stop us farangs acting in a more responsible way with our rubbish - for all the good it'll do - probably zilch!

[BKK90210]

Garbage is not the problem, but how to make the money from them is the problem!

There is always money to be made in garbage. Forget about trying to educate the little thais about environmental awareness because it won’t work unless there is something in it for them immediately.

I think the fastest and most efficient solution is for the government to get out of the refuse business. The private company would do a better job. It would have different visions in dealing with these refuses/garbages by turning it into money after recycling.

With 100% Open up the sector for both thai and foreign private companies that included attractive incentive packages while encouraging competition between them. With the most extra incentive would go to the foreign companies, since they are the one who came from the countries which having the most knowledge and technology in solving this kind of environmental issue.

If the thais can’t solve their own problem……why not let others take it over?....It’s only a common sense!

One of the obvious incentive would be allowable a company to have 100% foreign ownership shares and therefore would be able to own 1 rai of land.

I would bet we will have 100s of expat per month forming this such company in no time!... Remember start-up investment money will not be an obstacle for many farangs coz they’re already a walking ATM!.......And we will have…. a cleaner Pattaya .....in no time!

Currently no one moves to do anything....both thais and expats.....because there is nothing in it for them immediately!

Just my thought

Edited March 1, 2006 by BKK90210

[MP5]

Thanks

There's more to it than meets the eye!

[MP5]

Whoever got to Pattaya People TV?

Well that was another eye opener!

Did anyone else notice who much trash was dumped in the area they were reporting on!

They're right!

The area behind the Royal Cliff is getting bad too!

Also what about this vine type creeper that just seems to strangle all the trees, plants and utility lines?

[donkeykong]

Whoever got to Pattaya People TV?

Did anyone else notice who much trash was dumped in the area they were reporting on!

Watched that and had to laugh. The 'commentator' sounds like a throwback to public service announcements in early 50's Britain.

Folks (thai's) will ALWAYS go for the easiest solution (ie. dump s__t anywhere) until it becomes too expensive/risky to do so.

There is no 'overall community spirit' or 'sense of personal responsibility', and it will be a VERY long time (if ever!) before that occurs. You are looking at changing a non-judeo/christian (guilt) mindset. Thais can do whatever they wish as long as they (or someone else) give alms to make amends for any 'negative' things done.

The PPTV commentator's idea that the rubbish on land is then the responsibility of the farang land owner is a bit of a stretch, and the comment that 'we' farangs should be the ones slogging around with wheelbarrows and bobcats - cleaning up after bone-idol waste-dumping slack-a_se locals is a total joke! . . but coming from Niels & Co (community bandwagon $elf-promotion $ociety) that's hardly a surprise.

To stop midnight dumping on your land or any adjacent/public land you'd have to razorwire-fence off everything and provide 24-hr security... hardly a realistic option.

Surely there are better 'common sense' options:

- increasing fines exponentially for illegal dumping

- better signage in key locations (in thai!) to warn of fines

(for what its worth, the signs would probably get nicked for scrap!)

- more officers employed by police/council to patrol areas

- a $$$ reward offered for information leading to arrest of dumpers

- vastly improved domestic refuse collection service

- council 'illegal dump' cleanup teams, to remove rubbish to official tips

Most of these ideas (and more) aren't rocket science, but implementing them HERE will be like trying to stick feathers back on a plucked live chicken!

At every stage you're dogged by a 'corrupt' mentality... who gets the contracts... is there anyway the contractor can NOT carry out the duties and pocket the cash... is there any way that employees can do the same..... can we employ our family (first).... can uncle Somchai's business get the contract... on, and on, and on.

I wait to see the Pattaya People 'Keep Pattaya Tidy' Campaign very soon, with Neils marching ahead of the Expats Club Dads Army, bin bags in hand, clambering over rubbish dumps across the region. Another great little earner. I'm $ure there'$ a buck in it $omewhere. Maybe even a 12-month visa if you wear a black shirt?

[MP5]

Folks (thai's) will ALWAYS go for the easiest solution (ie. dump s__t anywhere) until it becomes too expensive/risky to do so.

There is no 'overall community spirit' or 'sense of personal responsibility', and it will be a VERY long time (if ever!) before that occurs. You are looking at changing a non-judeo/christian (guilt) mindset. Thais can do whatever they wish as long as they (or someone else) give alms to make amends for any 'negative' things done.

The PPTV commentator's idea that the rubbish on land is then the responsibility of the farang land owner is a bit of a stretch, and the comment that 'we' farangs should be the ones slogging around with wheelbarrows and bobcats - cleaning up after bone-idol waste-dumping slack-a_se locals is a total joke! . . but coming from Niels & Co (community bandwagon $elf-promotion $ociety) that's hardly a surprise.

To stop midnight dumping on your land or any adjacent/public land you'd have to razorwire-fence off everything and provide 24-hr security... hardly a realistic option.

Surely there are better 'common sense' options:

- increasing fines exponentially for illegal dumping

- better signage in key locations (in thai!) to warn of fines

(for what its worth, the signs would probably get nicked for scrap!)

- more officers employed by police/council to patrol areas

- a $$$ reward offered for information leading to arrest of dumpers

- vastly improved domestic refuse collection service

- council 'illegal dump' cleanup teams, to remove rubbish to official tips

Most of these ideas (and more) aren't rocket science, but implementing them HERE will be like trying to stick feathers back on a plucked live chicken!

At every stage you're dogged by a 'corrupt' mentality... who gets the contracts... is there anyway the contractor can NOT carry out the duties and pocket the cash... is there any way that employees can do the same..... can we employ our family (first).... can uncle Somchai's business get the contract... on, and on, and on.

That is a pretty good take on the situation!

[barryofthailand]

The house next to mine is vacant, belongs to the family of my neighbor acress the street. My neighbor decided to throw his trash in front of the home next to mine, and it smells. I told another neighbor I was going to buy him a trash bin. He got mad, had his kids clean up the area, and again put a small bucket for trash in the same place. If this happens again, I will go to city hall and have the health dept come out.

Barry

[donkeykong]

The house next to mine is vacant, belongs to the family of my neighbor acress the street. My neighbor decided to throw his trash in front of the home next to mine, and it smells. I told another neighbor I was going to buy him a trash bin. He got mad, had his kids clean up the area, and again put a small bucket for trash in the same place. If this happens again, I will go to city hall and have the health dept come out.

Barry

Is your neighbour across the street THAI ?

If so, handle it the Thai way....

a. get matey over a few beers and discuss the matter

b. park your car on his land

c. invite the police to witness a punch up and break it up

d. hire a heavy to have 'a word' or something rougher

If farang, find an appropriate moment.... and headbutt the c$%t !

Either way, your neighbour has shown 'major disrespect' requiring a suitable response

Consider buying several large aggressive noisy dogs , the sort that like attacking neighbours who dump trash on adjoining land and/or their children.

Are they prone to setting fire to the trash heap every week? Add your own rubbish....

cans of lighter fuel and paint aerosols should put an end to the weekly bonfire. Or covering the site with grass cuttings should generate enough smoke to pull in every fire engine from Rayong to Bangkok

When your neighbour and family are all out, dump all YOUR trash in his garden. He'll soon get tired and get the message.

Seriously though, your neighbour needs a smack.

Edited March 5, 2006 by donkeykong

[barryofthailand]

My neighbor is Thai, and your right he needs a good smack.

Barry

[donkeykong]

My neighbor is Thai, and your right he needs a good smack.

Barry

in that case, you'll need a thai with 'influence' to have a stern word.

if you talk to your neighbour, you might as well talk to a dead cat.

alay nah!

[barryofthailand]

My wife says that she will clean his trash when it gets out of hand, and he will therefore lose face. I guess this is the way Thais handle things. I told her, OK give it a shot, but if it doesn't work be prepared to do it my way.

Barry

[Tomissan]

Many people have a lot to complain about Singapore (police state, dictatorship and whatever else) but their policies do clearly work. It is a very, very clean and safe place.

Yes, Singapore is VERY CLEAN, except for one particular place, "Golden Mile".

It's where the Thai worker's go on Sunday to buy Thai goods, food, alcohol, etc. They sit outside on the grass where they eat together and leave their garbage all over the place. It's really an eye sore...must be the filthiest place in Singapore. Always wondered why the Singaporean police/government allows it.

[wilko]

Many people have a lot to complain about Singapore (police state, dictatorship and whatever else) but their policies do clearly work. It is a very, very clean and safe place.

Yes, Singapore is VERY CLEAN, except for one particular place, "Golden Mile".

It's where the Thai worker's go on Sunday to buy Thai goods, food, alcohol, etc. They sit outside on the grass where they eat together and leave their garbage all over the place. It's really an eye sore...must be the filthiest place in Singapore. Always wondered why the Singaporean police/government allows it.

I had a friend who took a 50% cut in salary to move from Singapore to Hong kong...she said there's clean and there's too clean....the place was just too repressive...it's like a realisation of Big Brother...even the government is beginning to realise that their restrictive and petty legislation was repressing the spirit of the place....

[h90]

let me know if that works!

My wife is from the south and most probably, she would go to him and tell him that he is a pig, and he is lao (for the southeners is everyone lao) and an animal, to stupid for everything, people like him make thailand going down, he is a shame for thailand, go back to lao, blablabla

And if it is not away in 1 day something terrible will happen to him. If anyone other on the street she'll ask if they agree.....

That so loud that everyone in that soi hears it......

I guess that somehow also cause him loose face.

So far that style works well for many things.

But I tell you, be happy with the trash near you, it could be worse, for example having my wife......

My ears hurt so much....

But no trash arround

My wife says that she will clean his trash when it gets out of hand, and he will therefore lose face. I guess this is the way Thais handle things. I told her, OK give it a shot, but if it doesn't work be prepared to do it my way.

Barry

[Kerryd]

I've noticed that the people on my block have started "cleaning" up their act a little, perhaps shamed by the "farang" that goes out every morning and cleans up their mess, buys garbage bins and trash bags and tries to make the area a little nicer to live in.

Neighbours have started using bags in their trash bins (otherwise all the loose, wet garbage sits in the bottom of the bin, rotting and stinking to high heaven). Most people will actually walk a couple of extra feet to drop their refuse into the bin, instead of just dropping it on the street.

The kids still don't get it though, and strangers passing through the area still drop their crap everywhere.

It's a start, but with only a few people on the street acting responsibly, they can be quickly overcome by the trash blowing in from the surrounding areas.

(Still, it's not quite as bad as Delhi, and no where near as bad as what I say in Cairo last summer. That whole city looked like a landfill, even around their most prized tourist attractions ! Disgusting and Disgraceful)

[barryofthailand]

Hey KerryD,

This is exactly what my wife is talking about. This guy has three kids that play with our son, and when we see him and his wife my wife will tell him, no problem, we can clean your trash. A huge loss of face.

Barry