21 Million Tourists, And Still Counting: Thailand

[ozziebloke]

So what is your problem? Do you also dissagreed with this advise https://www.alliance...s-occupancy.asp? Youv'e argued with everything that has been put to you, And you have also been asked to give figures/rates anything to back up your claims and as yet not one post of yours has even visited that scenario. Why cannot you give at least one little fact to support your claims that Pattaya was empty for most of the year that being 10 of the 12 months as you quoted in one of your posts. And you look don't pass it back to me

Are you really that ignorant? do you have any idea what is been discussed? just butt out and do some self education

You are really self righteous! You are the one that is ignorant! 90% of your posts on this thread have been answered with an insult to whoever has dissagreed or question your statements. This forum is available to anyone who wishes to put a point of veiw towards a thread, Not the sole domain of lemoncake. Get some education yourself about conversation/Debate. And some evidence towards your claims would help also

[chiangmaikelly]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

You can have surgery done in the hospital and go home or you can stay in the hospital and rent a room. On your hospital bill you will notice separate totals for food, room and medical services. Hospitals figure occupancy rates the same as hotels. Hospitals rent rooms to patients.

If you rent hotel rooms more than once a day as is frequently done in airports it is very easy to arrive at a occupancy rate of more than 100%. I managed a hotel at O' Hare airport and we would frequently get snowed in and have three times the number of people in the hotel as rooms and just as quickly when the airport opened people who thought they would be staying the the night left after a couple of hours. Our occupancy for many months totaled more than 100%

I am really a hotel and restaurant pro. I have been in the business all my life. I would imagine you have had another occupation in another country and Thailand is the first time you have ventured into the hospitality business. Innkeepers are not responsible to check the morals of guests they only rent rooms and take money. If someone wants to rent one of my expensive rooms for a couple of hours and pay for a full day who am I to turn down the money. Especially in Pattaya. You're in the hotel business in Pattaya?

There is no value to hotel occupancy. It is a simple math formula. You divide the number of occupied rooms by the number of available rooms. The result can be anything. There is no fixed upper or lower limit.

Edited January 3, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[jackspratt]

As an outside (but vaguely interested) observer, why are you guys allowing yourselves to be trolled by this fruitcake?

Ignore him - an empty (for most of the year) bridge is missing him.

Edited January 3, 2013 by jackspratt

[Thaddeus]

As an outside (but vaguely interested) observer, why are you guys allowing yourselves to be trolled by this fruitcake?

Best guess would be boredom, and a significant drop in the number of interesting people visiting.

[Nisa]

There are 530 Hilton Hotels certainly not all of them are 5 star hotels. I managed a number of Hilton Hotels. There is no one Hilton hotel. Two, when you sell a room more than once a day and you are at 100% occupancy your occupancy rate goes above 100%.

When you learn how to sell rooms more than once a day and keep all rooms in service you will be on your way to becoming a good innkeeper. I explained how in my previous post that you chose not to respond to.

what a total and utter nonsense

i am not planning to run short time brothels in the near future, leave that business for the experienced boys like yourself, while in the mean time i also do not plan to throw guests out half way through their stay so i can sell the room more than once a day.

PS. Clearly you missed, it but even if you run a brothel renting the same room out 10 times, your occupancy rates remain the same because room price is not in the formula

Occupancy has nothing to do with room price. It is how many times the room is sold during the period in question. If you have 1 room and it is sold every day you have 100% occupancy. If you manage to sell the room twice a day for whatever reason (I don't judge others morals) you have 200% occupancy.

Right so from occupancy of hotels you now moved on to occupancy of brothels , mind you it was you who brought it up and claimed to have done it.

And no, number of times you sell the room per day does not make any difference what so ever to the occupancy rate, because it is number of rooms not amount of times room was sold per day.

Furthermore 100% occupancy is a maximum, just as you can be sure 100% or factory working at maximum output of 100%, so occupancy can not be 200% nor can it be 101%

To Calculate Occupancy = Total Rooms Sold divided by Total number of rooms available in the hotel x 100

In other words you will get a higher than 100% rate if all rooms are sold out while some are sold more than once.

And you are the only person bring up brothels. People use hotel rooms for less than a day or even a few hours all the time who are not paying somebody for sex. This includes people who don't have another place to go to have a meeting, get a few hours rest and yes to have sex with a boy/girl friend or even spouse ... just to name a few examples.

I am still miffed that being in the hotel business you seem to know less than those who simply have stayed at hotels.

But you can try to sidetrack the topic as much as you want but what remains an indisputable fact is that foreign visitor numbers to Thailand are up and not down.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Nisa

[rubl]

... that foreign visitor numbers to Thailand are up and not down.

Not only that but begin of 2012 it was said the numbers for 2011 were 191.m tourists generating 730 billion Baht and expectations for 2012 19.5m with 766 bililon. The final tally for 2012 seems 22m+ with 965 billion generated.

I don't want to question these numbers. It's just that begin-of-year expectation and end-of-year results are so different they need to be explained. IMHO that is

[DocN]

It is so interisting, how many of you brag about the government on any possible occasion as corrupt, incompetent etc. but take the numbers on tourist for granted!

[Jim walker]

Just shows what a brilliant leader PM Yingluck is and what an incredible job she is doing with the economy, her brother and all his splendid guidance advice he has given her, some sceptics even referred to her as a puppet for our great and good leader in exile Thaksin Shinawatra we should be thinking on how we can honour or reward such a good honest hardworking advisor like koon Thaksin, what a hero and a shining example to so many Thais.

[lemoncake]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

You can have surgery done in the hospital and go home or you can stay in the hospital and rent a room. On your hospital bill you will notice separate totals for food, room and medical services. Hospitals figure occupancy rates the same as hotels. Hospitals rent rooms to patients.

If you rent hotel rooms more than once a day as is frequently done in airports it is very easy to arrive at a occupancy rate of more than 100%. I managed a hotel at O' Hare airport and we would frequently get snowed in and have three times the number of people in the hotel as rooms and just as quickly when the airport opened people who thought they would be staying the the night left after a couple of hours. Our occupancy for many months totaled more than 100%

I am really a hotel and restaurant pro. I have been in the business all my life. I would imagine you have had another occupation in another country and Thailand is the first time you have ventured into the hospitality business. Innkeepers are not responsible to check the morals of guests they only rent rooms and take money. If someone wants to rent one of my expensive rooms for a couple of hours and pay for a full day who am I to turn down the money. Especially in Pattaya. You're in the hotel business in Pattaya?

There is no value to hotel occupancy. It is a simple math formula. You divide the number of occupied rooms by the number of available rooms. The result can be anything. There is no fixed upper or lower limit.

You can not possibly be that oblivious

Hospitals have nothing to do with hotels, but since you feel like embarrassing yourself once again,

Hospitals do not have occupancy rates for rooms but for beds

Calculate the bed - days available by multiplying the total beds available in the hospital by no. of days in the year it would be available (typically between 300-350). A hospital bed cannot be available 365 days a year as it takes time to change beddings when patients leave, or a bed may need repairs and so on.

As for the rest of your drivel, it is exactly that, an off topic drivel

[Thai at Heart]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

Airport hotels regularly report periods of time with occupancy over 100%

[lemoncake]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

Airport hotels regularly report periods of time with occupancy over 100%

because many airport hotels rent rooms on short term basis for passengers in transit and the over 100% number applies to a certain period NOT an annual figure

Edited January 4, 2013 by lemoncake

[chiangmaikelly]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

You can have surgery done in the hospital and go home or you can stay in the hospital and rent a room. On your hospital bill you will notice separate totals for food, room and medical services. Hospitals figure occupancy rates the same as hotels. Hospitals rent rooms to patients.

If you rent hotel rooms more than once a day as is frequently done in airports it is very easy to arrive at a occupancy rate of more than 100%. I managed a hotel at O' Hare airport and we would frequently get snowed in and have three times the number of people in the hotel as rooms and just as quickly when the airport opened people who thought they would be staying the the night left after a couple of hours. Our occupancy for many months totaled more than 100%

I am really a hotel and restaurant pro. I have been in the business all my life. I would imagine you have had another occupation in another country and Thailand is the first time you have ventured into the hospitality business. Innkeepers are not responsible to check the morals of guests they only rent rooms and take money. If someone wants to rent one of my expensive rooms for a couple of hours and pay for a full day who am I to turn down the money. Especially in Pattaya. You're in the hotel business in Pattaya?

There is no value to hotel occupancy. It is a simple math formula. You divide the number of occupied rooms by the number of available rooms. The result can be anything. There is no fixed upper or lower limit.

You can not possibly be that oblivious

Hospitals have nothing to do with hotels, but since you feel like embarrassing yourself once again,

Hospitals do not have occupancy rates for rooms but for beds

Calculate the bed - days available by multiplying the total beds available in the hospital by no. of days in the year it would be available (typically between 300-350). A hospital bed cannot be available 365 days a year as it takes time to change beddings when patients leave, or a bed may need repairs and so on.

As for the rest of your drivel, it is exactly that, an off topic drivel

I have a degree in HRIM. Hotel, Restaurant and Institutional Management. The institution in the degree means places like hospitals. I have never heard of a hospital with no private rooms. Maybe there is one. Hospitals have occupancy rates for rooms and beds. A hospital would have to be nuts not to track room occupancy and room rates. Different rooms have different rates. Medical tourism is big business in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai. Many hotel companies have large hospital and nursing home holdings. Marriott is one that I worked for. The reporting is quite similar as is management. They provide Nursing Home, Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing Facility, Hospice, and Short Term Care: Rehabilitation, among other services.

[lemoncake]

I have a degree in HRIM. Hotel, Restaurant and Institutional Management. The institution in the degree means places like hospitals. I have never heard of a hospital with no private rooms. Maybe there is one. Hospitals have occupancy rates for rooms and beds. A hospital would have to be nuts not to track room occupancy and room rates. Different rooms have different rates. Medical tourism is big business in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai. Many hotel companies have large hospital and nursing home holdings. Marriott is one that I worked for. The reporting is quite similar as is management. They provide Nursing Home, Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing Facility, Hospice, and Short Term Care: Rehabilitation, among other services.

Ok, whatever I give up, you know it all, you done it all and studied it all and at the end you call 5000 baht big money for landscape , so all the best to you.

Just the very basic common sense that hospitals are not in the business of selling rooms but beds is even beyond you, what more could be said

[chiangmaikelly]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

Airport hotels regularly report periods of time with occupancy over 100%

because many airport hotels rent rooms on short term basis for passengers in transit and the over 100% number applies to a certain period NOT an annual figure

So what? Where did you or I specify that we were referring only to annual figures. Tourism and any numbers relating to it are figured by day, week, month, quarter, year, 5 year and so on as are occupancy numbers. Hotel occupancy rates can be any figure. There is not rule that the top is 100%. In Pattaya during 2012 I believe the average occupancy rate was between 50 and 66%. I would suggest the phrase "empty hotel" refers to an occupancy rate below 10% or thereabouts. Pattaya is an easy hotel market to be successful in because there are so many people in the business with absolutely no experience at it. Throw in the Thais who think that the appropriate response to less customers is to raise prices and it is really like shooting fish in a barrel.

[chiangmaikelly]

I have a degree in HRIM. Hotel, Restaurant and Institutional Management. The institution in the degree means places like hospitals. I have never heard of a hospital with no private rooms. Maybe there is one. Hospitals have occupancy rates for rooms and beds. A hospital would have to be nuts not to track room occupancy and room rates. Different rooms have different rates. Medical tourism is big business in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai. Many hotel companies have large hospital and nursing home holdings. Marriott is one that I worked for. The reporting is quite similar as is management. They provide Nursing Home, Assisted Living, Skilled Nursing Facility, Hospice, and Short Term Care: Rehabilitation, among other services.

Ok, whatever I give up, you know it all, you done it all and studied it all and at the end you call 5000 baht big money for landscape , so all the best to you.

Just the very basic common sense that hospitals are not in the business of selling rooms but beds is even beyond you, what more could be said

Sometimes a photo is worth a thousand words. I don't remember saying how much I spend on landscaping. It was a lot more than 5000. 5000 would have convered the trees in the front. But that is neither here nor there. One of the nice things about hospitals in Thailand is they know they are in the hotel business. Take a look at the room choices. A part of the 21 million tourists are medical tourists. It is a good business and Thailand knows that.

Edited January 4, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[slapout]

It is my understanding that the 'tourist' that TAT puts out are the number of entries into Thailandvia air, land and I suspose sea entries is also counted. Now I have no idea of the real number of tourists arriving in the LOS, but the number of government officials leaving to visit the so called leader in exile, gad about trips, real government mission assignments, plus the Thai who return from holiday, schooling, work, etc would not seem to be lreal tourists.

But, throw out numbers while asking for or leading up to, budget to spend, is a part of the double talk of politicans, worldwide.

[Thai at Heart]

It can be occupancy of anything. If you have a hospital with 100 rooms and you rent all the rooms out twice a day the occupancy of the hospital would be 200%.

I am now beginning to wonder if there is something wrong with you, i mean really.

For starters we are not talking about hospitals or brothels or cars or anything else you like to bring up once you have been proven wrong again and again.

Not only that, but hospitals do not rent rooms

You asked the question of what was the occupancy for hotels

You gave completely wrong formula and "ingredients" for occupancy rates

100% term is used to represent a maximum value, so it can not be 300% nor can it be anything else but a maximum 100%, not only its common sense but a common knowledge in hotel industry

Airport hotels regularly report periods of time with occupancy over 100%

because many airport hotels rent rooms on short term basis for passengers in transit and the over 100% number applies to a certain period NOT an annual figure

The time frame has nothing to do with the measurement. Its simply a management analysis.

Most report daily, weekly, monthly etc.

thing is, if a facility starts approaching 90%, there are probably periods where certain types of rooms are over 100%, so management needs to know right?

Wouldn't anyone want to run a facility where the same room gets rented twice a day, i.e. 200% occupancy?

Of course, you could try to be smart, and do the analysis over a 12 hour period, which would then be back to 100% occupancy? So yes, some facilities at certain times often experience above 100% occupancy over a daily or weekly basis.

[Nisa]

It is my understanding that the 'tourist' that TAT puts out are the number of entries into Thailandvia air, land and I suspose sea entries is also counted. Now I have no idea of the real number of tourists arriving in the LOS, but the number of government officials leaving to visit the so called leader in exile, gad about trips, real government mission assignments, plus the Thai who return from holiday, schooling, work, etc would not seem to be lreal tourists.

But, throw out numbers while asking for or leading up to, budget to spend, is a part of the double talk of politicans, worldwide.

It is number of foreign visitors and based on arrival and departure cards. It is not number of people who enter and exit Thailand.

[rubl]

It is my understanding that the 'tourist' that TAT puts out are the number of entries into Thailandvia air, land and I suspose sea entries is also counted. Now I have no idea of the real number of tourists arriving in the LOS, but the number of government officials leaving to visit the so called leader in exile, gad about trips, real government mission assignments, plus the Thai who return from holiday, schooling, work, etc would not seem to be lreal tourists.

But, throw out numbers while asking for or leading up to, budget to spend, is a part of the double talk of politicans, worldwide.

It is number of foreign visitors and based on arrival and departure cards. It is not number of people who enter and exit Thailand.

A bit pedantic, sorry.

Tourists numbers are based on arrivals (and their arrivals cards). Of course this number is equal or slightly larger than the number of departures (or their departure card). The undoubtedly small difference is in those who stay longer (working, retired, marriage visa) or 'disappear'.

[lemoncake]

The time frame has nothing to do with the measurement. Its simply a management analysis.

Most report daily, weekly, monthly etc.

thing is, if a facility starts approaching 90%, there are probably periods where certain types of rooms are over 100%, so management needs to know right?

Wouldn't anyone want to run a facility where the same room gets rented twice a day, i.e. 200% occupancy?

Of course, you could try to be smart, and do the analysis over a 12 hour period, which would then be back to 100% occupancy? So yes, some facilities at certain times often experience above 100% occupancy over a daily or weekly basis.

You are correct on all your points, however when you do annual reporting or say yearly reports it is what it is.

If you were to buy a hotel, i doubt you would be asking occupancy rate for high season or 1 month, you would be asking for occupancy rate for the year to know if its worth investing.

Quarterly reports are never accurate as it does not represent true business values, profits and losses for the year.

No doubt renting the rooms twice is a profitable business, HOWEVER it is only possible for airport hotels and short time rooms in brothels.

Backpacker hostels have a different formula because they rent beds, and some rooms have 10 bunk beds.

[Nisa]

The time frame has nothing to do with the measurement. Its simply a management analysis.

Most report daily, weekly, monthly etc.

thing is, if a facility starts approaching 90%, there are probably periods where certain types of rooms are over 100%, so management needs to know right?

Wouldn't anyone want to run a facility where the same room gets rented twice a day, i.e. 200% occupancy?

Of course, you could try to be smart, and do the analysis over a 12 hour period, which would then be back to 100% occupancy? So yes, some facilities at certain times often experience above 100% occupancy over a daily or weekly basis.

You are correct on all your points, however when you do annual reporting or say yearly reports it is what it is.

If you were to buy a hotel, i doubt you would be asking occupancy rate for high season or 1 month, you would be asking for occupancy rate for the year to know if its worth investing.

Quarterly reports are never accurate as it does not represent true business values, profits and losses for the year.

No doubt renting the rooms twice is a profitable business, HOWEVER it is only possible for airport hotels and short time rooms in brothels.

Backpacker hostels have a different formula because they rent beds, and some rooms have 10 bunk beds.

Not being in the hotel business of course I could not know as much as you but ....

Would think monthly and quarterly occupancy would be very important in determining busy and low seasons when you would not need to have as much staff and your expenses would be considerably lower. Without knowing seasonal rates you would be understaffed and overstaffed.

As for only airport and brothels having short time guests that is just absolutely ridiculous as it is not at all uncommon for business people to rent rooms during the day and not spend the night.

[metisdead]

Off topic and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[lemoncake]

The time frame has nothing to do with the measurement. Its simply a management analysis.

Most report daily, weekly, monthly etc.

thing is, if a facility starts approaching 90%, there are probably periods where certain types of rooms are over 100%, so management needs to know right?

Wouldn't anyone want to run a facility where the same room gets rented twice a day, i.e. 200% occupancy?

Of course, you could try to be smart, and do the analysis over a 12 hour period, which would then be back to 100% occupancy? So yes, some facilities at certain times often experience above 100% occupancy over a daily or weekly basis.

You are correct on all your points, however when you do annual reporting or say yearly reports it is what it is.

If you were to buy a hotel, i doubt you would be asking occupancy rate for high season or 1 month, you would be asking for occupancy rate for the year to know if its worth investing.

Quarterly reports are never accurate as it does not represent true business values, profits and losses for the year.

No doubt renting the rooms twice is a profitable business, HOWEVER it is only possible for airport hotels and short time rooms in brothels.

Backpacker hostels have a different formula because they rent beds, and some rooms have 10 bunk beds.

Not being in the hotel business of course I could not know as much as you but ....

Would think monthly and quarterly occupancy would be very important in determining busy and low seasons when you would not need to have as much staff and your expenses would be considerably lower. Without knowing seasonal rates you would be understaffed and overstaffed.

As for only airport and brothels having short time guests that is just absolutely ridiculous as it is not at all uncommon for business people to rent rooms during the day and not spend the night.

I can not speak for how others run their business, but i do not lay off staff depending on the season, because recruiting and training staff costs much more than keeping them on for low seasons.

While knowing monthly stats is internally important to know your financial position, it does not represent the true yearly value as i already explained.

Pattaya is full of business people, right? and in the movies business people also turn maids into savy business operators, in reality, most hotels rely on Internet bookings, and once the room is sold, it is removed from the system. If the guest checks out early, room will go back on the market, that does not mean it will be sold again, this especially applies to large hotels with large number of rooms, because due to its size room release will take hours after the guest has checked out

[chiangmaikelly]

You are correct on all your points, however when you do annual reporting or say yearly reports it is what it is.

If you were to buy a hotel, i doubt you would be asking occupancy rate for high season or 1 month, you would be asking for occupancy rate for the year to know if its worth investing.

Quarterly reports are never accurate as it does not represent true business values, profits and losses for the year.

No doubt renting the rooms twice is a profitable business, HOWEVER it is only possible for airport hotels and short time rooms in brothels.

Backpacker hostels have a different formula because they rent beds, and some rooms have 10 bunk beds.

Not being in the hotel business of course I could not know as much as you but ....

Would think monthly and quarterly occupancy would be very important in determining busy and low seasons when you would not need to have as much staff and your expenses would be considerably lower. Without knowing seasonal rates you would be understaffed and overstaffed.

As for only airport and brothels having short time guests that is just absolutely ridiculous as it is not at all uncommon for business people to rent rooms during the day and not spend the night.

I can not speak for how others run their business, but i do not lay off staff depending on the season, because recruiting and training staff costs much more than keeping them on for low seasons.

While knowing monthly stats is internally important to know your financial position, it does not represent the true yearly value as i already explained.

Pattaya is full of business people, right? and in the movies business people also turn maids into savy business operators, in reality, most hotels rely on Internet bookings, and once the room is sold, it is removed from the system. If the guest checks out early, room will go back on the market, that does not mean it will be sold again, this especially applies to large hotels with large number of rooms, because due to its size room release will take hours after the guest has checked out

The first big hotel I managed was a Holiday Inn. I can still remember my boss coming in and telling me, "September is the slowest month of the year, all the kids go back to school, no one travels or spends money. I want to see half of your staff gone on the first of September because half of your guests will be gone."

[Nisa]

Not to steer this off topic of why lemoncake's hotel business is failing and back into tourism but ;-)

I forget to mention this a few weeks ago. I was flying back to BKK from Chiang Mai and while waiting for my plane one of those poll people (assume TAT) came up to us and wanted to survey us. The wife and I were watching a movie and the form looked long so I wasn't into it. So, when she asked where I was from I told her Bangkok and she moved on. But I guess these pollsters do exist in terms of collecting that peripheral data about things like average money spent. I kind of wish I did talk to her to find out what they ask and how they ask it but was just not into at the time and we wanted to see the end of the movie on the laptop before we boarded.

[Nisa]

You are correct on all your points, however when you do annual reporting or say yearly reports it is what it is.

If you were to buy a hotel, i doubt you would be asking occupancy rate for high season or 1 month, you would be asking for occupancy rate for the year to know if its worth investing.

Quarterly reports are never accurate as it does not represent true business values, profits and losses for the year.

No doubt renting the rooms twice is a profitable business, HOWEVER it is only possible for airport hotels and short time rooms in brothels.

Backpacker hostels have a different formula because they rent beds, and some rooms have 10 bunk beds.

Not being in the hotel business of course I could not know as much as you but ....

Would think monthly and quarterly occupancy would be very important in determining busy and low seasons when you would not need to have as much staff and your expenses would be considerably lower. Without knowing seasonal rates you would be understaffed and overstaffed.

As for only airport and brothels having short time guests that is just absolutely ridiculous as it is not at all uncommon for business people to rent rooms during the day and not spend the night.

I can not speak for how others run their business, but i do not lay off staff depending on the season, because recruiting and training staff costs much more than keeping them on for low seasons.

While knowing monthly stats is internally important to know your financial position, it does not represent the true yearly value as i already explained.

Pattaya is full of business people, right? and in the movies business people also turn maids into savy business operators, in reality, most hotels rely on Internet bookings, and once the room is sold, it is removed from the system. If the guest checks out early, room will go back on the market, that does not mean it will be sold again, this especially applies to large hotels with large number of rooms, because due to its size room release will take hours after the guest has checked out

The first big hotel I managed was a Holiday Inn. I can still remember my boss coming in and telling me, "September is the slowest month of the year, all the kids go back to school, no one travels or spends money. I want to see half of your staff gone on the first of September because half of your guests will be gone."

I would guess this is the norm unless you have a hotel that has not seasonal adjustments and would bet in a place like Thailand there are lots of workers who only work certain months of the year then go back home to either take care of the kids, farm or do whatever only to return in the high season the following year.

Even in Thailand were the wages are lower it certainly would add up having many staff from maids, cooks, maintenance, wait staff and so on all standing around doing nothing. I love going to the beaches in the off season but know the public/beach area will often be less clean as they are operating on a skeleton crew and find a lot of the smaller hotels don't even open their restaurants. Then again, there are no crowds and I am paying half the price.

Again not in the hotel business but to me it would seem insane to have the same level of staff and services available during the X-Mass and New Year weeks (highest of the high season) all year round ... you'd go broke.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Nisa

[lemoncake]

I would guess this is the norm unless you have a hotel that has not seasonal adjustments and would bet in a place like Thailand there are lots of workers who only work certain months of the year then go back home to either take care of the kids, farm or do whatever only to return in the high season the following year.

Even in Thailand were the wages are lower it certainly would add up having many staff from maids, cooks, maintenance, wait staff and so on all standing around doing nothing. I love going to the beaches in the off season but know the public/beach area will often be less clean as they are operating on a skeleton crew and find a lot of the smaller hotels don't even open their restaurants. Then again, there are no crowds and I am paying half the price.

Again not in the hotel business but to me it would seem insane to have the same level of staff and services available during the X-Mass and New Year weeks (highest of the high season) all year round ... you'd go broke.

It is irrelevant is hotel is busy or not, it is still open, so you still need all the staff to be there. In the quite seasons there is always tons of work to be done for the next year, which includes inventory, upgrades, changes and training.

Again laying off staff costs money, so does employing new and training new staff.

If we talking about Thailand, definitely laying off staff is not an option as it takes months just to find someone, and few months to train them for them then to be gone.

So if i have good staff, i keep them on and wear the costs.

Just as an example, it took me 1.5 years to find good, hard working maid and 1 year to find good cook, i certainly would not be laying either of them off even if i had totally empty hotel for few months

[DocN]

I would guess this is the norm unless you have a hotel that has not seasonal adjustments and would bet in a place like Thailand there are lots of workers who only work certain months of the year then go back home to either take care of the kids, farm or do whatever only to return in the high season the following year.

Even in Thailand were the wages are lower it certainly would add up having many staff from maids, cooks, maintenance, wait staff and so on all standing around doing nothing. I love going to the beaches in the off season but know the public/beach area will often be less clean as they are operating on a skeleton crew and find a lot of the smaller hotels don't even open their restaurants. Then again, there are no crowds and I am paying half the price.

Again not in the hotel business but to me it would seem insane to have the same level of staff and services available during the X-Mass and New Year weeks (highest of the high season) all year round ... you'd go broke.

It is irrelevant is hotel is busy or not, it is still open, so you still need all the staff to be there. In the quite seasons there is always tons of work to be done for the next year, which includes inventory, upgrades, changes and training.

Again laying off staff costs money, so does employing new and training new staff.

If we talking about Thailand, definitely laying off staff is not an option as it takes months just to find someone, and few months to train them for them then to be gone.

So if i have good staff, i keep them on and wear the costs.

Just as an example, it took me 1.5 years to find good, hard working maid and 1 year to find good cook, i certainly would not be laying either of them off even if i had totally empty hotel for few months

Oh-oh...I guess I know, what is coming now!

Wait for it....wait for it.....

[lemoncake]

It is irrelevant is hotel is busy or not, it is still open, so you still need all the staff to be there. In the quite seasons there is always tons of work to be done for the next year, which includes inventory, upgrades, changes and training.

Again laying off staff costs money, so does employing new and training new staff.

If we talking about Thailand, definitely laying off staff is not an option as it takes months just to find someone, and few months to train them for them then to be gone.

So if i have good staff, i keep them on and wear the costs.

Just as an example, it took me 1.5 years to find good, hard working maid and 1 year to find good cook, i certainly would not be laying either of them off even if i had totally empty hotel for few months

Oh-oh...I guess I know, what is coming now!

Wait for it....wait for it.....

It already did, see post 205, One of Thai Visa business specialists finest

[lemoncake]

Not to steer this off topic of why lemoncake's hotel business is failing and back into tourism but ;-)

I forget to mention this a few weeks ago. I was flying back to BKK from Chiang Mai and while waiting for my plane one of those poll people (assume TAT) came up to us and wanted to survey us. The wife and I were watching a movie and the form looked long so I wasn't into it. So, when she asked where I was from I told her Bangkok and she moved on. But I guess these pollsters do exist in terms of collecting that peripheral data about things like average money spent. I kind of wish I did talk to her to find out what they ask and how they ask it but was just not into at the time and we wanted to see the end of the movie on the laptop before we boarded.

If you do not mind, could you point for me on any thread where myself or anyone related to me stated that my hotel business is failing

Naturally if you fail to find it, it is safe to assume a public apology is forthcoming right?