Building A New Desktop System

[Tywais]

Dear tywais, would you please check what is the P/N of your PSU.

If it is RS-450-ACLY, please tell me where you have ordered it from.

I sent you a PM due to an e-mail address being included. I will double check tomorrow but I'm 99% certain it was the RS-450-ACLY and it was from shop4thai.com

[Firefoxx]

Sorry, Condo, I really despise Pantip, so I can't take you up on your offer. I live in the 'burbs, and so getting there (and getting back) is a nightmare.

I think I mentioned this before, but I did look at the full tower steel cases at Jedicool. They were *very* heavy... I don't know if they were 8KG, but they were a pain to lift when empty. The aluminum version, OTOH, was easy to lift with one hand.

[MikeWill]

Sorry, Condo, I really despise Pantip, so I can't take you up on your offer. I live in the 'burbs, and so getting there (and getting back) is a nightmare.

I think I mentioned this before, but I did look at the full tower steel cases at Jedicool. They were *very* heavy... I don't know if they were 8KG, but they were a pain to lift when empty. The aluminum version, OTOH, was easy to lift with one hand.

We probably have to choose some other venue for the meeting.

As mentioned previously, on my last visit to Pantip, I put my hands on the LianLi PC-7 case at the JEDI shop. It was less nice aesthetically, more bulky, and probably weights 2-3kg less at THB 2990. But it's so big in size (and without any handles) that you can't actually handle it comfortably even with two hands and a leg , unless you're an acrobat. In addition, all the connections/buttons are at the bottom, which is also less handy, at least in my case.

At any rate, we are speaking about desktop, not a laptop.

[MikeWill]

If to go with the VGA cards that support SLI (Scalable Link Interface), the choices are:

- Chaintech "SE6600G/128" nVidia GeForce 6600GT 128MB DDR3 128-bit DVI TV-Out PCI Express Retail THB 5,555.00

http://www.thanni.com/index.php?main_page=...products_id=607

- Chaintech "SE6600G/256" nVidia GeForce 6600GT 256MB DDR3 128-bit DVI TV-Out PCI Express Retail THB 6,050.00

http://www.thanni.com/index.php?main_page=...roducts_id=3348

I'm not sure if these models are also support SLI:

- ASUS "EN6600/TD/128" GeForce 6600 128MB DDR 128-bit DVI TV-Out PCI-Express Retail THB 4,995.00

http://www.thanni.com/index.php?main_page=...roducts_id=2307

- Leadtek WinFast "PX6600 GT TDH" nVidia GeForce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 128-bit DVI TV-Out PCI Express THB 6,060.00

http://www.thanni.com/index.php?main_page=...products_id=673

Should I chose my VGA from one of those? Which one?

[francois]

Firefoxx,

Your input is, as always, invaluable...

Proper cooling is, of course, necessary. Modern hard drives can (and do) run pretty hot, but take into account that Thailand is already very hot, and you're going to cook your harddrives if you're not careful. I've seen improperly cooled drives develop bad sectors after prolonged operation.

Most cases sold in Thailand (~1000 baht jobs) aren't going to be properly cooled. They might not come with fans (common), or they come with fans that will fail within the year (common). Worse, the fans might be set to blow air the wrong way (pretty common). The fan grills may also be too small to allow enough air to flow (again, common). I've written a lot on fan cooling, and don't want to repeat myself... do a search if you want tips.

That's what I found so far:

The basic principle of computer cooling is air flow... which boils down to keeping a constant stream of air going in and out of your computer. You also consider that the hottest components of your case will be the harddisks (which will fail prematurely if not cooled), the CPU, and the graphics card (if it's middle-to-high end). You will notice that there are usually fan mounts in the front of the case, in front of the harddisk bays, and in the back, behind the CPU area. Since hot air rises, the logical setup would be to have a good intake fan in the front (or two) and one exhaust fan in the back. Since the PSU above the CPU also has an exhaust fan (albeit weak), it will also help. You should have sort of a balance between the intake and exhaust, so that a constant flow is set up, always drawing in new cooler air and drawing out the heated air...

Some cases are really screwed up in terms of air flow... I've seen several "Gview" cases which have a funnel that covers the CPU... and the case fan attached to this funnel draws air *out* of the case, which is idiotic considering that CPU fans draw air downwards to the CPU. There are also cases in which the fan behind the CPU is set to intake... so you've got the PSU exhaust fan directly above it spewing out hot air, and you've got this fan drawing it back in.

(The following is confirming the post of Wallalai)

The "open case+desk fan" option sort of does the job, but CPU cases aren't meant to be left open. Not only is there the problem of accumulating dust, the components are also exposed to the environment and anything in it (pets, kids, coffee, etc).

It seems that nobody is really considering to have an open case system as a permanent solution. So, which case is best value for money?

The lian li case you're looking at is nice, but I think it's a bit overpriced... it's a just basic aluminum case, and quite small. You can pay a bit more and get something more fancy. Pay a bit for some nice quiet ball-bearing fans, and you're set.

Busitek has a lot of fancy stuff, but it comes at a premium.. their prices are usually higher than the standard prices at Pantip.

Whould you please elaborate on that. What shop in Pantip do you recommend? What case is that, price, etc.? The same goes for fans ("nice quiet ball-bearing fans") and power supply.

Your input on specific HDD(s), RAID or no RAID, would also be much appreciated.

The current AMD socket is at the end of its life cycle... a new socket is about to replace it. Usually I would say "wait for the new one", but since you're already getting a decent CPU for this one, you don't need to. The prices for AMD dual-cores are really high (up to 40K), while the prices for Intel dual-cores aren't that much higher than single-cores. However, AMD mainboards are relatively cheap compared to Intel boards.

You are probably referring to the AMD's Socket AM2. As far as I can see, it's about the switch to DDR2, and not expected to make a great difference in performance by itself. It's indended for systems with more than 4 GB of RAM. That's what I heard from Tomshardware.

The price for Socket 939 mainboard A8N-SLi Premium (I have chosen) is already very expensive -THB 7,550. And the new Socket will probably raised it further.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz 2x512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core CPU Retail by D-COM in Thailand is currently priced at THB 14,520. < see here >

hi'

for case nothing better at the moment than the Antec P180

a bit pricy, but well airflowed and silent as well ...

my next buy ... still running an old mod case

francois

I have ordered almost all components for my new PC:

1. Case CoolerMaster Centurion 532 - THB 2,235 (incl. delivery in 2-3 days by thanni.com)

2. PSU CoolerMaster Real Power 450W P/N: RS-450-ACLY - THB 2,850 (should be delivered in 2-3 days)

3. CPU Athlon X2 3800+ - THB 13,900(in stock)

4. MB ASUS A8N-SLi Premium - THB 7,190(in stock)

5. RAM (2 x 512 GB) DDR400 / PC3200 (in stock)*

6. HDD Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 250GB S-ATA II - THB 4,600 (in stock)

*- The available RAM is (all dual channel kits of 1GB):

a. Corsair (Latency = 3) - THB 4,990

b. GEIL (Latency = 2,5) - THB 3,950

c. Kingston (Latency = 2,) - THB 3,690

Which one to choose?

The only other question remained is about VGA card.

I'm not much of a gamer, and don't want to invest heavily in that card. On the other hand, it should be adequate to perform basic tasks and be reliable.

Please advice!

hi'

as you're decided for things to be done, why do you limit yourself to 1gb of ram only? and why pc3200 only, you can plug some pc3500 and then run the pc on turbo mode in bios

for name, I'll go for corsair if can't find any OCZ, latency aren't this important

mine is specfied to be a 3.4.3.8, running on turbo mode I get 2,5.3.3.7, a lot faster, go for a 2gb twin pc3500 Corsair cas3 will be fine

francois

[poorfarang]

and what does that ram setup cost?

[MikeWill]

francois

Re: "why do you limit yourself ...?"

The simple answer is - my wallet is too small.

[poorfarang]

Thats what I was refering to as well

[Firefoxx]

It's all relative really. Some people go for a really ludicrous CPU, mainboard, and VGA card, only to buy the cheapest, lousiest monitor and peripherals. Others will even out their investment. It depends on what's important for you, and how you intend to use it.

1GB is adequate for most things, unless you do intensive graphics/multimedia or games, or you extensive multitasking (20+ programs at once). I personally do all these things, so both my PC and my notebook have 2GB ram inside. With the relative cheapness of ram these days (1GB is about 3,000+), it's not a huge investment compared to other components.

[poorfarang]

So if I buget 6,000 baht for 2GB of ram for this mobo which should I buy?

Im waithing to goto pantip because UPS is still holding my laptop and monitor and not telling me what the hel_l is going on. Drives me crazy. Should I just goto the airport with a bunch of wiskey and get the box out of customs myself?

[francois]

francois

Re: "why do you limit yourself ...?"

The simple answer is - my wallet is too small.

hi'

come on, for a few thousands baths, you could get the top now!

after, if you had the idea to add some, you'd better to find the same ram stick

sometimes happen strange things with ram ...

better to get a real 2gb set

and it won't be 2x the price of 1gb, more like 1.7x ...

think twice

francois

ps; btw, the difference between 1gb to 2 gb is : 2gb rocks

[MikeWill]

Clarification:

It was confirmed the the CoolerMaster Power Supply 450W available in Thailand is only version "RS-450-ACLX".

The RS-450-ACLY is not available, but only 550W version RS-550-ACLY.

Also the difference in price is quite significant. The cheapest I've found is THB 4,610.00 at: http://www.thanni.com/index.php?main_page=...roducts_id=2786

francois,

Do you know how to check where is a bottleneck of the system?

I do understand your point, but... let's see.

In the meantime, I also need to buy toys for my daughter.

[Firefoxx]

Again, folks, it's all relative. The components of Condo's system are pretty darn good, if not the best. They all cost quite a lot more than the standard configuration. You could argue that 1GB is good enough, and in most cases, it is. Of course, you could also argue that you're not doing the darn good system justice by skimping on memory, but that's point of view. Both views are right in their own way, and there is no "right" way.

The whole point of this thread was to give advice on what components would give most bang for the buck. Of course, opinions differ on this matter, and it's ultimately up to the buyer to decide. Everyone else's role is to give the buyer the proper input to try and help him make an informed decision.

One reason why I advocate "more memory is best" is because the typical user is not very computer-savvy. He tends to hoarde programs, installing 10 different programs that do pretty much the same thing. He rarely uninstalls, and doesn't install intelligently (taking out unwanted resident programs/modules or spyware or auto-updaters). He ends up with 10+ things in his system tray that he never uses, but they take up memory anyways. He has unwanted processes and programs running without his knowledge, and all these things take up memory. So, in the end, he doesn't have much memory left for his actual work.

[MikeWill]

Firefoxx,

Thank you. I can't put it better. Best system for the buck, that's what this tread is about. And hopefully, we all learn something on the way (seven pages and counting...).

Some problems are specific to Thailand (i.e. PSU by the CoolerMaster see above), some other are universal.

I am referring to the issue about Windows VISTA - VGA cards and monitors. So, if I understand correctly my new VGA card must support the SLI (Scalable Link Interface), so to allow futher down the road to add another VGA card, which will be HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) compatible.

Is it so?

[Tywais]

I am referring to the issue about Windows VISTA - VGA cards and monitors. So, if I understand correctly my new VGA card must support the SLI (Scalable Link Interface), so to allow futher down the road to add another VGA card, which will be HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) compatible.

Is it so?

This is the article I was talking about in my PM to you.

Vista

They are talking about 32MB card for mid-level and 64MB for the higher level features and those are AGP 4X versions. So a 128-256MB PCI-Express card should be no problem at all.

And this:

"Will my PC run Vista?

That depends on how recently you bought it. Microsoft Allchin said in an April interview that he expects Vista will need about 512MB of memory and "today's level" of processor. The ability to display all the fancy new graphics will depend on what type of graphics card one has. On some older machines, the graphics may look similar to today's Windows."

I would say we are in good shape for it (whenever it arrives) but I wouldn't jump into it for 1-2 years or until SP1 comes out. XP will be around for a while yet.

[Firefoxx]

SLI has nothing to do with HDCP. They're two different things. You use SLI so that you can use two VGA cards in tandem to produce the same image faster.

HDCP on the other hand is the digital copyright scheme used for HDTV signals over HDMI or DVI. Currently no (or maybe 1 or 2) VGA cards support it, and adding one down the road in SLI won't be the answer. The long and short of it is that it's for outputting copy-protected HD content to HDTVs digitally.

So, again, you *don't* need to get only an nVidia card.

[poorfarang]

Customs finally released my new toys. A new Dell X1 laptop and a 2405 monitor. I lied on the customs forms when they shipped out of the USA and said they were broken items only worth $250. Because of this I only had to pay 4,500 baht for duty! Not that lying is good or anything but I didnt feel like paying another 60,000 baht to import these items.

Cant wait to put them to use in the new system.

[MikeWill]

Looks like a really nice stuff.

The monitor is huge. What is it exactly?

Isn't there 2 laptops?

[Firefoxx]

The monitor is a 24", capable of 1920x1200 resolution. The notebook on the left is a Compaq, a previous notebook. The one he just got is on the right, a Dell.

[poorfarang]

^ You are correct

Dell 2405 Monitor. Compaq V2000, Dell latitude X1, and hopefully can build that new system this weekend!

[Tywais]

^ You are correct

Dell 2405 Monitor. Compaq V2000, Dell latitude X1, and hopefully can build that new system this weekend!

Your member name is misleading.

Would love to have that monitor.

[poorfarang]

I paid about $9XX for it but now I think you can get it for about $750 or more.

So since I didnt get screwed on customs im going to build my desktop system now. I could use another machine on my coffee table!

So which shops in Pantip should I be visiting for these parts and resonable prices? Someone mentioned Jedi shop. Can I haggle this guys on everything or should I just stick to the prices marked?

[francois]

^ You are correct

Dell 2405 Monitor. Compaq V2000, Dell latitude X1, and hopefully can build that new system this weekend!

Your member name is misleading.

Would love to have that monitor.

hi'

right

and with a screen like this, I would look on the 6800gtx side in sli of course, and I won't hesitate a second for a 2gb pack in dual channel

and one more thing, get a good ventilation in and out the case, and if you can change the stock HS cooler, for a better one, ususaly the stock hs cooler is crap

francois

[poorfarang]

Just got back from Pantip. I looked for "Jedi Shop" but couldnt find it. I ended up finding what I needed at Busitech on the 4th floor.

This is what I got:

Asus A8N Sli Premium ~7,000

AMD x2 3800+ ~14,000 (had to pay a premium on this item because I used my credit card)

Lian Li pc 7+ Black ~3,000

Asus cdrw ~ 900

Asus dvd ~ 900

I had them throw the mobo cpu and drives in the case for me.

I still need to get some things before my system is funcitoning and Im still looking for reccomendations:

Video Card - Something that will run my 2405 with decent graphics. Ideally dont want to spend more then ~5,000. Maybe more depending on what I get

Hard Drive - Thinking about going tieh 250-300 Gig drive. Looking for a good sata drive for my system

Memory - I think I will start with 1 gig for now and upgrade to 2 gigs sometime later after my wallet stops bleeding. Any reccommendations?

Power Supply - Something that can handle all of the previously mentioned components.

[Firefoxx]

The Jedi shop is next to Speed compute on the first floor. Go in the front of Pantip, head for the right escalator, walk past it a bit, and walk down the aisle. It's to your left, before you see the next escalator on the right.

CDRW? DVD? Why not DVDRW? It's the norm these days, and at 2,000 it's a no-brainer.

Again, 1gig is totally ok if you're not doing lots of multimedia/graphics/games.

The Spark X1600 card that I mentioned is around your budget, or you can go for the nVidia 7600 series. The X1600 has an advantage in that it allows for video encoding acceleration.

Hard drives have the most "capacity for the buck" at around 200-250GB. After that, you pay a *lot* more for a little more space.

Power supply I would recommend is Enermax. Well-known name. Preferrably 400W or more.

[poorfarang]

Only reason I didnt go for the Dvd-RW is becasue I have had one for years and years and have only used it twice.

So should I look at Jedi Shop for the rest of these items or its Busitech worth sticking with?

[Firefoxx]

I bought my first DVD writer when I noticed that I was getting a significant number of single files bigger than 700MB... that was a few years ago, when they were first coming out. Since then, I've steadily used more and more DVDs than CDs, and now I hardly write any CDs at all. DVD media s only around 20 baht now, compared to 5 baht for CDs, so it's more economical. Now, I'm getting files that are more than 4GB in size, and need something for archiving those. Of course, I do a lot of multimedia work, so it depends.

Jedi is like Busitek in that they sell exotic equipment. You want a middling VGA card, so no need to buy from them. The Enermax PSUs originally could only be found at these shops, but now even places like Hardware House sell them. Same goes for the RAM and harddrive.

[poorfarang]

So what ram should I buy for around 5000?

[Firefoxx]

For about 7000, you can get 2 1GB sticks of the cheaper ram. Any brand is ok, they all come with lifetime warranties.

[poorfarang]

How cheap is this ram though? Would I be better off getting 1 gig of good ram or 2 gigs of cheap ram?