Basic Nutrition In Chiang Mai

[pingman]

My wife(Chiang Mai native) and i(Australian) gave birth to our son 15 months ago and i cant help but notice that most of his food is highly processed garbage from seven-eleven. I work in Australia for 2 weeks at a time and spend the 3rd week in Chiang Mai, so my control over his diet is limited. She understands basic nutrition but its the excessive amount of junk food hes eating thats bothering me. I get the feeling my comments on this are perceived by her as digs at her mothering abilities, so she doesnt want to hear it.

Does anyone have any suggestions? She might listen to a nutritionist, or someone who could explain it a little better than i.

She does have a point though. It must be hard to listen to a speech on the dangers of excess by someone who drinks as much beer as i do.....

[daoyai]

This is a sensitive subject, for her to listen she will need to hear the info from an older (than her) local person with higher social standing and education. If her mom approves of her feeding style, game over.

Edited January 1, 2013 by daoyai

[hml367]

This is a sensitive subject, for her to listen she will need to hear the info from an older (than her) local person with higher social standing and education. If her mom approves of her feeding style, game over.

You saved me typing time, Daoyai.

MSPain

[junglechef]

Had similar experience and I found it a slow process to change that is still evolving. My GF's two boys 5&6 moved in with us and the first challenge was to have them eat brown rice which she thought they wouldn't like, after a week I just served it and they were perfectly happy so must hurdle the "afraid of the unknown". Now they eat and even like some vegetables, many we grow organically ourselves. True I am here and do most of the cooking and almost all the grocery shopping but I put my foot down at snacks before dinner and the "they're not hungry" at breakfast and other quite Western practices. But it took a few years of small steps incl. explanations and is still on going but even our treats are healthier choices now that I know what they like and we all can be satisfied. Home made cake was considered healthy by my GF as it was made from whole ingredients but now is a good dessert in our household as the understanding of nutrition is better. I am expecting our 9 mnth old, who eats fresh fruit and basically a lot of what we do (w/a little help by pre-chewing), grows up with good eating habits which takes a lot more effort on all our parts than going to 7/11 except to pay bills and the occasional real chocolate candy bar and excuse me if I come off as preaching but I live very healthy and as my boys respect me they eat, cycle, spend time working in the garden etc. as I do because they want to be like Daddy.

Edited January 1, 2013 by junglechef

[bitewhentested]

iv been here about 7 years and my god the amount of fat thai kids you see around now to when i first got here its disgusting the things some thais let there kids eat pizza macdonalds kfc so on iv seen 12 years olds that are so fat they sweat in aircon and i know a few people with young kids

that dont even have a regular bed time up till all hours watching tv then they cant get up in the morning and fall asleep at school

bloody spoil t my mum would call it and she would be rite and iv noticed a lot of half half kids are getting very brat like and up them self's being cheeky to people they see lower down the pecking order to them one of the things i liked about thailand when i first moved here

was how polite kids were and how healthy most thai people looked but with more and more out side influence its changing my mums used to say to me little boys should be seen and not heard and you will get a thick ear in a minute my lad lol awww the good old days lol

[Rancid]

The real problem I found when confronted with a similar situation was the Thai doctor, sadly looked upon by many Thais as all knowing. Most of them are of the diet and exercise are irrelevant school, here buy my pharmaceticals. They say eat what you want as it doesn't matter and the Thais then take that on as Gospel. I know there are exceptions but too many are like this.

I eventually just had to make an issue of it, explaining that wasn't how I was raised, that the local doctors are decades behind cutting edge nutrition and that the kids were not to be given that crap. I was around all the time so obviously that helped. Good luck.

[Semper]

most of his food is highly processed garbage from seven-eleven

Just wait until he discovers McDonalds, Pizza outlets etc.......

[g00dgirl]

At 15 months, that's absolutely not necessary to give a baby any junk food (sometimes hard to avoid when they are older and see friends eat it though). Mothers in Thailand are given a pink book during pregnancy where all data about the baby gets written in and it's got information like height charts, weight charts and also a lot of nutrition information, example foods and quantities.

Did she get that? It's all written in Thai.

[drnkurmlkshk]

There is a TON of healthy food in Chiang Mai! And you're right, many of the food options from 7/11 are bad. There are a couple of decently healthy ones there, though. Eggs milk and yogurt are all great choices. Almonds and other nuts are not bad, either.

The clear choice is to eat lots of Thai food. It is cheap, widely available, quite healthy and so on. I am not saying that all Thai food is especially healthy. Pad Thai is not great, although it still beats full on junk food. But pork with basil, tom yum, morning glory, som tam, omelettes, chicken stir fry and rice are all great options. In fact I'd go as far as saying that besides the fried noodle dishes, almost everything on a Thai menu is reasonably healthy. This is true even if it uses a bit of coconut milk or oil - these things are not even really unhealthy, especially for someone growing.

For snacks there are fresh fruit stands just about everywhere. This stuff is really good for you and it is extremely cheap and convenient.

BTW I know a lot about nutrition because I used to be obese (181cm at a whopping 115kg) and I've managed to stay out of obese territory for the last ten years without any sort of surgery or things like that. So while it might be a bit of an argument of authority, you should put some stock into what I am writing here more than most folks I think!

[rene123]

I commend the OP about trying to get his child to eat a proper, balanced meal. It's not just Thailand that is the problem, it's almost world wide. I DO remember my first trip to Thailand in 1998 and thought how slim and nice all the school kids looked. I noticed a change when I came back to Thailand in November. I posted a similar topic about the increased number of fat locals. I don't remember there being so many 7-11 stores, either. Many (most?) Thais don't prepare their own meals because it's so easy to find a local street market cafe to do the cooking. But, the basic food comes from markets in the form of meat, veggies and rice, with a nice mixture of fruit for a desert.

[searcher22]

There is a TON of healthy food in Chiang Mai! And you're right, many of the food options from 7/11 are bad. There are a couple of decently healthy ones there, though. Eggs milk and yogurt are all great choices. Almonds and other nuts are not bad, either.

The clear choice is to eat lots of Thai food. It is cheap, widely available, quite healthy and so on. I am not saying that all Thai food is especially healthy. Pad Thai is not great, although it still beats full on junk food. But pork with basil, tom yum, morning glory, som tam, omelettes, chicken stir fry and rice are all great options. In fact I'd go as far as saying that besides the fried noodle dishes, almost everything on a Thai menu is reasonably healthy. This is true even if it uses a bit of coconut milk or oil - these things are not even really unhealthy, especially for someone growing.

For snacks there are fresh fruit stands just about everywhere. This stuff is really good for you and it is extremely cheap and convenient.

BTW I know a lot about nutrition because I used to be obese (181cm at a whopping 115kg) and I've managed to stay out of obese territory for the last ten years without any sort of surgery or things like that. So while it might be a bit of an argument of authority, you should put some stock into what I am writing here more than most folks I think!

Congrats on your healthy eating habits. Indeed, Thailand has so much great food. And the fruits... so succulent and packed with vitamins! It's one major reason why I've chosen to live in Thailand. Just be sure to spray or soak all fruits and veggies before eating them, whenever possible. I use a 50/50 vinegar & water solution.

[hellodolly]

Congratulations to all you people who are trying to teach your kids decent eating habits.

It would seem like the more westerner we get here the more fattening foods we see. 7/11s do have a lot to do with it as there is so many of them and they all have the fat foods. The fast food outlets are not that big of a contributor as they are not really available to the majority of Thailand. And even where they are they are not yet that many. But they will spread out.

The 7/11s do however as was pointed out here have healthy foods. It is just a matter of training them when they are young enough.

As has been mentioned earlier find a elderly person with some knowledge of nutrition and they may listen to them. Or they may ignore them. My Doctor has no problem telling me what is good for me and what is not. But the wife thinks that it is only for me. She is Thai and that makes her different. Even though my doctor is Thai and I have so far lost 25 kilos.

The Thai medical society if there is one could help solve the problem by having properly educated nutritionists. I inquired from my doctor and she said there is not one in Chiang Mai.

[jbrain]

If you stay every third week in Thailand, I guess it should not be a problem to buy decent food for the next two weeks and just tell your wife to feed that to the child.

I'm sure if the food is stocked up in the fridge they will not bother spending money on additional food.

[junglechef]

One of the reasons Thailand was so attractive to me was the food, both how good it tasted and was for me, but I'd like to add that one of the most popular, the balls in noodles soup, be they be pork, fish etc., are binded with borax which is quite dangerous to eat. So smart choices are necessary where ever one shops or eats.

[kaptainrob]

25 years ago my 18 month old son was rejecting Heinz baby mashed crap so I sat him on my lap and spoon fed mashed potato with gravy, yep that went down. next night it was (my own) green curry, rice with curry gravy ... yep that went down, spoon after spoon! So this became the norm, to his Mum's chagrin, yet lead to eating solids ... broccoli or beans stir-fried with garlic etc.

Rather than attempt educating Mum, try my approach, discovered quite by accident. Keep your beer out of reach though!

[SoloFlyer]

Try to get along to one of the doctors visits or vaccinations, and make sure you sit in. Mention it directly or subtly to the doc and ask specifically what foods are good, bad and acceptable and also ask how often some 7-11 junk-food is acceptable?

Use the table they have in the baby book which charts weight and height - they call in staying within the 'grain' or 'gain' - to make sure the child is within standard range... mention that your concerned eating habits might lead to the child becoming 'outside the grain'...

[searcher22]

Try to get along to one of the doctors visits or vaccinations, and make sure you sit in. Mention it directly or subtly to the doc and ask specifically what foods are good, bad and acceptable and also ask how often some 7-11 junk-food is acceptable?

Why this over-reliance on what the doctor says? In the 1940s doctors were used to hawk cigarettes. Today, some are used to hawk needless vitamin supplements. There's plenty of objective information available on the Internet. Let's do our own research. Trust our own instincts. I'll cite two of Michael Pollan's rules: "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." and "Don't eat anything your great-grandmother wouldn't recognize as food." That's already 95% of what you need to know!

[meadish_sweetball]

<p>

One of the reasons Thailand was so attractive to me was the food, both how good it tasted and was for me, but I'd like to add that one of the most popular, the balls in noodles soup, be they be pork, fish etc., are binded with borax which is quite dangerous to eat.

Sad if true. Source?

[searcher22]

<p>

One of the reasons Thailand was so attractive to me was the food, both how good it tasted and was for me, but I'd like to add that one of the most popular, the balls in noodles soup, be they be pork, fish etc., are binded with borax which is quite dangerous to eat.

Sad if true. Source?

I've seen some noodle ball packages on store shelves with the label "contains no borax." There must be some truth to this. I used borax to get rid of ants in my home. Worked like a charm.

[junglechef]

Just knowledge I've acquired from reading a lot on the subject of food safety. If you google it (as I just did and the first thing that came up was http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2004/10/20/features/9163047&sec=features) you should find lots on the subject. As anyone know a source can also be incorrect so only one's own research will satisfy one's own requirements. Another interesting thing I read was that borax is illegal in most countries incl.Indonesisa and Maylasia it's not here.

[junglechef]

<p>

One of the reasons Thailand was so attractive to me was the food, both how good it tasted and was for me, but I'd like to add that one of the most popular, the balls in noodles soup, be they be pork, fish etc., are binded with borax which is quite dangerous to eat.

Sad if true. Source?

I've seen some noodle ball packages on store shelves with the label "contains no borax." There must be some truth to this. I used borax to get rid of ants in my home. Worked like a charm.

I've never seen that but sure backs up my comment

[elektrified]

There is a TON of healthy food in Chiang Mai! And you're right, many of the food options from 7/11 are bad. There are a couple of decently healthy ones there, though. Eggs milk and yogurt are all great choices. Almonds and other nuts are not bad, either.

The clear choice is to eat lots of Thai food. It is cheap, widely available, quite healthy and so on. I am not saying that all Thai food is especially healthy. Pad Thai is not great, although it still beats full on junk food. But pork with basil, tom yum, morning glory, som tam, omelettes, chicken stir fry and rice are all great options. In fact I'd go as far as saying that besides the fried noodle dishes, almost everything on a Thai menu is reasonably healthy. This is true even if it uses a bit of coconut milk or oil - these things are not even really unhealthy, especially for someone growing.

For snacks there are fresh fruit stands just about everywhere. This stuff is really good for you and it is extremely cheap and convenient.

BTW I know a lot about nutrition because I used to be obese (181cm at a whopping 115kg) and I've managed to stay out of obese territory for the last ten years without any sort of surgery or things like that. So while it might be a bit of an argument of authority, you should put some stock into what I am writing here more than most folks I think!

Congrats on your healthy eating habits. Indeed, Thailand has so much great food. And the fruits... so succulent and packed with vitamins! It's one major reason why I've chosen to live in Thailand. Just be sure to spray or soak all fruits and veggies before eating them, whenever possible. I use a 50/50 vinegar & water solution.

You need to clean the vegetables in sodium bicarbonate to get rid of the pesticides. I don't think vinegar will do the trick.

I would not recommend giving Thai food to a child. It is loaded with MSG and other chemicals. We fed our baby foods we cooked at home with no salt or other chemicals and then put them in the blender. Our Pediatrician is not a typical Thai and advised against feeding any rice until 2 or more years old. Instead we gave him wheat (a product made by Nestle and sold everywhere in Thailand including 7-11). When he began to eat some rice, it was brown rice.

[junglechef]

Why no rice for a child under 2?

[drnkurmlkshk]

MSG is not unhealthy. In double blind studies it was found that all of the people who claimed to have an adverse reaction to MSG couldn't actually tell the difference between the real thing and placebo. Several governments have run long term studies on the stuff over many decades now and it was found to be completely safe.

Salt isn't unhealthy, either.

What other "chemicals" is thai food loaded with that are so dangerous?

I don't know what wheat by nestle is exactly. I just tried to do a google search. If I am getting it right, it appears to be an ultra processed food, which is definitely less healthy than Thai food. Cereal isn't a good food choice, either. It is more highly processed garbage.

[searcher22]

MSG is not unhealthy. In double blind studies it was found that all of the people who claimed to have an adverse reaction to MSG couldn't actually tell the difference between the real thing and placebo. Several governments have run long term studies on the stuff over many decades now and it was found to be completely safe.

Salt isn't unhealthy, either.

What other "chemicals" is thai food loaded with that are so dangerous?

I don't know what wheat by nestle is exactly. I just tried to do a google search. If I am getting it right, it appears to be an ultra processed food, which is definitely less healthy than Thai food. Cereal isn't a good food choice, either. It is more highly processed garbage.

I agree with you that people may be exaggerating the ill-effects of some foods and additives. And Elektrified's insistence on not giving Thai food to a child seems a bit too alarmist. Thai kids look radiant and in great health, so Thai parents must be doing something right.

But I think we have a right to be concerned about dangerous pesticides, especially when consumed by babies and pregnant women. Europe even banned the import of certain foods, citing dangerously high levels of carbofuran and EPN, which are banned in many countries.

Following the infamous Nestle infant formula scandal, I wouldn't trust any nutritional claims coming from that company.

As for your claim that cereal is "highly processed garbage" I hope you're referring to Fruit Loops or Captain Krunch and not my sugarless mueslix cereal that I've been eating religiously every morning since I've landed in Thailand!

[drnkurmlkshk]

As for your claim that cereal is "highly processed garbage" I hope you're referring to Fruit Loops or Captain Krunch and not my sugarless mueslix cereal that I've been eating religiously every morning since I've landed in Thailand!

Well I am not exactly sure what you are eating because many different images popped up when I looked. But sugerless corn flakes, for example, is not healthy even though it isn't nearly as bad as fruit loops. Unprocessed oats are healthy, though. Could you link me to the specific product you're talking about? There seems to be a lot of different ones...

[thykeeper]

What other "chemicals" is thai food loaded with that are so dangerous?

I still eat Thai food on a daily basis but the cheapest possible grade palm oil little street vendors use is like cooking with wax. It's basically the same crap all cheap pastries use here also and I don't consider it food.

[searcher22]

As for your claim that cereal is "highly processed garbage" I hope you're referring to Fruit Loops or Captain Krunch and not my sugarless mueslix cereal that I've been eating religiously every morning since I've landed in Thailand!

Well I am not exactly sure what you are eating because many different images popped up when I looked. But sugerless corn flakes, for example, is not healthy even though it isn't nearly as bad as fruit loops. Unprocessed oats are healthy, though. Could you link me to the specific product you're talking about? There seems to be a lot of different ones...

Here it is: http://www.hahne.de/index.php?language=en&category=020700&product=384&limit=0

Hahne Multi-Fruit muesli. 1000 g for around 170 baht. 30% fruit. First ingredient is whole wheat flakes. I simply add raisins, plain yoghurt and fresh banana slices. Yummy.

[elektrified]

Why no rice for a child under 2?

The doctor stated a number of reasons. Choking mainly, as well as the levels of naturally occurring Arsenic found in rice.

[elektrified]

MSG is not unhealthy. In double blind studies it was found that all of the people who claimed to have an adverse reaction to MSG couldn't actually tell the difference between the real thing and placebo. Several governments have run long term studies on the stuff over many decades now and it was found to be completely safe.

I don't know what wheat by nestle is exactly. I just tried to do a google search. If I am getting it right, it appears to be an ultra processed food, which is definitely less healthy than Thai food. Cereal isn't a good food choice, either. It is more highly processed garbage.

Not true. Hospital E.R. Rooms see patients on a daily basis suffering severe reactions to MSG. Doctors in both Thailand and America have told me this. It is unhealthy. I have had a couple of severe reactions to MSG in Thailand. I never eat the stuff and the g/f's entire family won't touch it either.

The product I am referring to is called Cerelac by Nestle. "Ingredients: Wheat flour, Semolina (Wheat) Mineral (Iron), Vitamins [C, Niacin, B6, Thiamin], Maize Maltodextrin, Culture (Bifidus). May contain traces of milk and soy."

I agree with you that people may be exaggerating the ill-effects of some foods and additives. And Elektrified's insistence on not giving Thai food to a child seems a bit too alarmist. Thai kids look radiant and in great health, so Thai parents must be doing something right.

But I think we have a right to be concerned about dangerous pesticides, especially when consumed by babies and pregnant women. Europe even banned the import of certain foods, citing dangerously high levels of carbofuran and EPN, which are banned in many countries.

Following the infamous Nestle infant formula scandal, I wouldn't trust any nutritional claims coming from that company.

Europe banned certain imports of vegetables and fruits; largely from Thailand because of high pesticide levels.

Disclaimer: O.K. I may be a bit biased as to Nestle since I have had a major holding in their stock for 25 years now. But they are a good solid company and the product I mentioned is a safe product for children.

Edited January 3, 2013 by elektrified