One For The Recent Expat Arrivals Into Bkk

[NanLaew]

^^^^ This expat culture.... not sure if I like that idea. If the current demographic (meaning that most ageing sexpats survive their first marriage with the retirement fund intact but don't get bitter and twisted and tend to assimilate the Thai culture better) is going to be replaced by some nouveau, alien, hipper-than-thou, 'expat culture' over their work, play, relationships and lifestyle then it won't be very Thailand now will it?

Edited January 4, 2013 by NanLaew

[MrHammer]

^^^^ This expat culture.... not sure if I like that idea. If the current demographic (meaning that most ageing sexpats survive their first marriage with the retirement fund intact but don't get bitter and twisted and tend to assimilate the Thai culture better) is going to be replaced by some nouveau, alien, hipper-than-thou, 'expat culture' over their work, play, relationships and lifestyle then it won't be very Thailand now will it?

Things change. Those who prefer a bit rougher, wild west scenario may have to look elsewhere, say Burma, which is just beginning to open its borders. But I can't be the only one who has noticed the changing demographics in say Sukhumvit 11 and around. Old shophouses are being torn down and old, cheaper hotels are being substitued with modern, trendy 4-5 star hotels. I like it and I doubt Thailand will lose its 'Thainess' any less than the Japanese have lost their culture. It just means that you can't live as well on exchange rate factors alone, which isn't really something to be proud of anyway.

[MrRealDeal]

As my likely last post I would like to point out to all those like the OP that ......... Sitting around complaining about how everyone is a big complaining loser with nothing positive to add to their life makes them a slightly different shade of the same color.

Since none of these people ever care to answer my question of why them and not everyone else I will answer it for them ....... It's because you are more similar than different to the people you are hanging out with and complaining about, and people tend to associate with people they are like, not people they are markedly different than.

Complaining about the complainers makes you a complainer just like them ........ sorry to tell you but it's true

Edited January 4, 2013 by MrRealDeal

[marstons]

Cant beat a heads up from a Newbie

[up2you2]

Onedownmanship? - hmm, maybe you feel that's the way it's coming across to you, but if anything I feel their intentions are more inclined that you can learn and benefit from their mistakes.

Bleeding them dry - these are shark invested waters, the law of the jungle dictates that Farangs are fair game.

Change her spots - yes it's the Thai equivalent of Groundhog Day.

Worked - that's the difference, most of the guys are retired and are looking for a soul mate.

Return home - not an option.

Not cut out for expat life - who is? We're all fish out of water.

Abject failure - coming to terms with reality, who was it that said a man's got to know his limitations.

I kinda agree with your comments but do have a coupla questions...

How can someone say that returning home is not an option? Is it financial? is it shame?

And the fish out of water comment. This may be valid for new expats, or new arrivals, but we are talking about guys that have been here for a while. By not cut out to be expats, I meant that they were so inflexible that they were either unwilling or unable to at least partially integrate, if there purpose for being here was long term.

ScotsExpat in your OP you make some interesting observations, and ask some interesting, dare I say it, thought provoking questions.

Maybe we all had such similar thoughts on our initial arrival, but over the years to some they may now appear threatening.

You have now clarified your perspective and situation, of how you are viewing and perceiving your fellow your fellow expats here in Thailand.

Through the eyes of work, marriage, prospective family and career enhancement.

By definition those who don't work, don't believe in marriage, refuse to procreate, and their career prospects ended years ago, these are the vast majourity of expats and readers that you are meeting and addressing your comments to on this forum.

I feel it is you who is the exception, and not the rule. Hence the interest in the so called new expats.

I don't know what your other three choices were, but if I had to come to Thailand under your circumstances, I would interpret that as a sentence, an ordeal.

You are here for none of the reasons I am, and it also seems vice versa.

Returning home is not an option?

To be able to settle, acclimatise, assimilate to the the degree that I have, I bear no relation to the guy that I left behind.

Not all of it of course has been bad, as otherwise I wouldn't have persevered. The greatest plus that springs to mind in emigrating to Thailand, is in realising that less is actually best. By that I mean a simple life far out weighs what some of us were striving for in the West.

I think for the vast majourity of expats who come out here, most do with a consideration, intention of becoming lifers.

Yes maybe the new expats are just passing through, here for the beer, but for the old expats the word commitment is very much the order of the day.

Not a ticket to ride, rather the Last Train To Clarksville.

Can you turn the clock back, I believe you can't, for a hundred and one reasons.

Fish out of water, being referred to as aliens on a daily basis, hardly helps to integrate one into Thai society. Discrimination is overt and practice to your face, amongst the Thais themselves, let alone foreigners. The only rights you have is catching a plane at the airport.

You don't see them marrying a tom, yes that could well be where Thailand is unique and perhaps to a lesser extent the Philippines as well.

So that begs the question why does this phenomena happen here, and no it's not solely the older generation that do that.

I can swap the grey weather for somewhere in the south of Europe, it will be interesting to hear how much you think of Thailand when you do.

Have I met a more sorry bunch of of excuses, is there any connection here with the Dubliners, Mulligans, Aussie, and Robin Hood, or perhaps just changing your beer from Kilkenny to Guinness might do the trick (only joking, as there's enough who can upset the apple cart with solely misinterpretation).

The term is maryying a John.... not to be confused with a Dear John letter.

For what it's worth I don't think the OP is a complainer, all that ScotExpat was doing was making an observation.

[MrRealDeal]

not a complainer LOL ..... he has more wine in him than all of france !

[maprao]

When reading stories about Thailand remember a good analogy:

If you eat in a good restaurant you will tell a handful of people. If you eat in a bad restaurant you will tell everyone! However the ratio of good to bad is quite high in favor of the good ones.

As for me everything in Thailand can belong to my wife and son. I have no issues and I am a "hardened expat contractor". Nowhere else would I have a wife that takes care of me and loves me (perceived or true) the way my current Thai wife does. Also she grants me a certain degree of don't ask do not tell when I want to go and misbehave.

and if I am not happy I pop into the local McDonalds eat some chicken wings with this sauce they gave me. I have been based in Thailand for over a decade now and for some reason I could not stop laughing

[krisb]

And if those are the kinds of people that people like the OP hang out with ....... they should stop complaining about it. Either hang out with better people or stop whining that the low class places and people you hang out with are low class. PS ...... if you hang out at low class places a lot you are no different than the other people that hang out there.

You obviously attract the wrong kinds of people as aquaintences or friends , the question is not whats wrong with all the other losers out there the question is why do you find yourself in their company ? I don't

Can't help but look at your two posts and wonder whether you understood the OP.

The question actually was what is wrong with some of the losers in Bangkok. How you turn that to a question on me is, quite frankly, ludicrous and perhaps even deflective.

You perhaps missed one of my later posts where I quite clearly state that I was looking for a discussion. You appear to have misunderstood the quite simple idea of a discussion and immediately go on the offensive.

But, to address YOUR question, I do not hang out at low class places. I can honestly state that I have not set foot in one bar where they do not serve Kilkenny, and have not entered an establishment where bar-girls ply their trade.

You see, I moved out of here out of a different choice system and with different expectations of the place that most, and that may include you, come here with.

I had 4 choices from my employer of where I could work next. All 4 had pro's and con's, and Thailand had slightly more pro's than the others..

I plan on staying here for no more than 3 years, doing my job and achieving what my career aspirations are for having the type of work my industry employs here, then moving onwards and upwards.

I am happily married and we are expecting our first child in May, we specifically did not rent an apartment downtown, but rented a villa in Nonthaburi, because its closer to my work, the neighbours are predominately employed in the same industry as I am and its more family-focused.

I visit one of the following bars, on average, 3 times a week (Dubliners, Mulligans, Aussie, Robin Hood) and golf at the weekends.

The difference between your replies and mine are as follows....

I did not assume anything about you, you made that mistake and were WAY of base.

I asked what I believe to be a valid question, based predominately on what I have seen both out and about and on this very website. You made the mistake of assuming where I had made these observations, and were WAY of base.

I asked a very general question which would appear to at least have a vein of truth running through it, based on some of the responses, You felt the need to try and deflect the question and make it personal, which begs the question why, unless I assume that you took it as a personal attack....

Gee the writing style is familiar. It must be the Scottish connection. Do you know Blether at all?

[MAJIC]

Lets see how long it takes people to start bad mouthing.

Isn't that what the thread is designed for,and not exactly the first time the Topic has been aired! just ignore it,it will surely run it's course!

[MAJIC]

Lets see how long it takes people to start bad mouthing.

Isn't that what the thread is designed for,and not exactly the first time the Topic has been aired! just ignore it,it will surely run it's course!

But "Onedownmanship" certainly makes one wonder why the attraction and need to anylise the unfortunate "losers"If there is no empathy for them?Strange or what?

[tinfoilhat]

I visit one of the following bars, on average, 3 times a week (Dubliners, Mulligans, Aussie, Robin Hood) and golf at the weekends.

it would seem you have an affinity for bars created with boiler room money, fair enough as far as it goes, but the robin hood is easily the most soulless bar in the city

[chiang mai]

I visit one of the following bars, on average, 3 times a week (Dubliners, Mulligans, Aussie, Robin Hood) and golf at the weekends.

it would seem you have an affinity for bars created with boiler room money, fair enough as far as it goes, but the robin hood is easily the most soulless bar in the city

+1 on both aspects.

[uptownbob]

the old adage " a fool and his money are easily parted" applies anywhere in the world but some places it is more predominant.....thailand CAN be like that.

re negative postings on here:

there are some sorry arse bastards out there that regularly post their miserable views full of rudeness and denigration for the thais...usually they're Poms who have a genetic disposition for moaning anyway.....they can't crack it back in their own countries so they limp out here and feel more important about themselves because it's cheaper living etc... but nevertheless they enjoy haunting a local bar over a flat beer and then coming home to their lonely house and bitch and moan on here...thailand is a great country but caveat emptor!!

[HardenedSoul]

the old adage " a fool and his money are easily parted" applies anywhere in the world but some places it is more predominant.....thailand CAN be like that.

re negative postings on here:

there are some sorry arse bastards out there that regularly post their miserable views full of rudeness and denigration for the thais...usually they're Poms who have a genetic disposition for moaning anyway.....they can't crack it back in their own countries so they limp out here and feel more important about themselves because it's cheaper living etc... but nevertheless they enjoy haunting a local bar over a flat beer and then coming home to their lonely house and bitch and moan on here...thailand is a great country but caveat emptor!!

[chiang mai]

the old adage " a fool and his money are easily parted" applies anywhere in the world but some places it is more predominant.....thailand CAN be like that.

re negative postings on here:

there are some sorry arse bastards out there that regularly post their miserable views full of rudeness and denigration for the thais...usually they're Poms who have a genetic disposition for moaning anyway.....they can't crack it back in their own countries so they limp out here and feel more important about themselves because it's cheaper living etc... but nevertheless they enjoy haunting a local bar over a flat beer and then coming home to their lonely house and bitch and moan on here...thailand is a great country but caveat emptor!!

[Rob8891]

the old adage " a fool and his money are easily parted" applies anywhere in the world but some places it is more predominant.....thailand CAN be like that.

re negative postings on here:

there are some sorry arse bastards out there that regularly post their miserable views full of rudeness and denigration for the thais...usually they're Poms who have a genetic disposition for moaning anyway.....they can't crack it back in their own countries so they limp out here and feel more important about themselves because it's cheaper living etc... but nevertheless they enjoy haunting a local bar over a flat beer and then coming home to their lonely house and bitch and moan on here...thailand is a great country but caveat emptor!!

Gadzooks! Sounds a bit like here is a bitter aussie with an axe to grind ...Maybe the irony of his hypocracy (I can never spell that <deleted> word) regarding moaning has escaped him.

[chiang mai]

the old adage " a fool and his money are easily parted" applies anywhere in the world but some places it is more predominant.....thailand CAN be like that.

re negative postings on here:

there are some sorry arse bastards out there that regularly post their miserable views full of rudeness and denigration for the thais...usually they're Poms who have a genetic disposition for moaning anyway.....they can't crack it back in their own countries so they limp out here and feel more important about themselves because it's cheaper living etc... but nevertheless they enjoy haunting a local bar over a flat beer and then coming home to their lonely house and bitch and moan on here...thailand is a great country but caveat emptor!!

Gadzooks! Sounds a bit like here is a bitter aussie with an axe to grind ...Maybe the irony of his hypocracy (I can never spell that <deleted> word) regarding moaning has escaped him.

Moaning about moaners is about as bad as it gets, definitely time to leave.

[NoshowJones]

What's the lady's name may I ask, sounds like she's running a great business?

Seriously Tommo, if what you've written here is even a little bit true, all I can say is that you move in the wrong circles.

Not the same lady, but all in the same city (Chiang Mai).

If you regularly visit the bars and restaurants around town, you will know these guys, and some of the ladies.

Currently two people in the process of losing their stuff (land and business), both guys live in Hang Dong.

I don't do the bar thing so I never get to see these guys, but counting the days when I did plus my time since, ten years in all, I only ever knew one guy who divorced from Thai female and he came out of it better than OK, the guys you talk about that loose everything, they're doing something very wrong in the area of common sence.

I don't know if you could say I lack common sense, but I hated the UK (I am a Scot) so much, I came to Thailand, dated a few girls, not bargirls, took a chance on one, bought us a house, married 18 months ago after being together 6 years, we are both very happy together. Was I just lucky?

[NoshowJones]

Yes sure, but frankly, anyone who doesn't take sensible legal precautions in a place like Thailand deserves what he gets, natural selection springs to mind.

I agree about taking precautions

However I don't know if i would say 'deserves what he gets'. Some guys put their trust in their partner and are stung by it. That doesn't mean they deserve to get ripped off for being trusting in a relationship.

We live in times where pre-nuptual aggreements are de rigour, makes the word trust seem a bit like a cute Victorian concept. I don't know, the sensible legal precautions bit is like carrying an umbrella on a fine day, who knows, it might just rain.

People use umbrellas all the time in Thailand, and it's nothing to do with rain.

[NanLaew]

What's the lady's name may I ask, sounds like she's running a great business?

Seriously Tommo, if what you've written here is even a little bit true, all I can say is that you move in the wrong circles.

Not the same lady, but all in the same city (Chiang Mai).

If you regularly visit the bars and restaurants around town, you will know these guys, and some of the ladies.

Currently two people in the process of losing their stuff (land and business), both guys live in Hang Dong.

I don't do the bar thing so I never get to see these guys, but counting the days when I did plus my time since, ten years in all, I only ever knew one guy who divorced from Thai female and he came out of it better than OK, the guys you talk about that loose everything, they're doing something very wrong in the area of common sence.

I don't know if you could say I lack common sense, but I hated the UK (I am a Scot) so much, I came to Thailand, dated a few girls, not bargirls, took a chance on one, bought us a house, married 18 months ago after being together 6 years, we are both very happy together. Was I just lucky?

Possibly. Or just haven't gotten the 7 year itch yet.

[TommoPhysicist]

I don't know if you could say I lack common sense, but I hated the UK (I am a Scot) so much, I came to Thailand, dated a few girls, not bargirls, took a chance on one, bought us a house, married 18 months ago after being together 6 years, we are both very happy together. Was I just lucky?

I have currently been 'lucky' for five years, previously I was 'lucky' for twenty five years before I became 'unlucky'.

As they say in the finance industry, previous returns are no indication of future profits.

(Mrs. 25 lucky, then extremely unlucky was originally a schoolteacher in the UK, as far as I know she never worked as a bargirl either) Best to never buy a house outright in any country IMHO. Partners are much less likely to abscond with the 90% home loan.

Edited January 7, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[bkkjames]

[ScotsExpat]

I posed a question to new arrivals into Thailand, and get deflective post over deflective post from established expats, bar a few that attempted to focus the topic on the OP...

Here I was trying to gauge the initial impression one gets when arriving here, and Im not going to get that from the old guard....

[chiang mai]

I posed a question to new arrivals into Thailand, and get deflective post over deflective post from established expats, bar a few that attempted to focus the topic on the OP...

Here I was trying to gauge the initial impression one gets when arriving here, and Im not going to get that from the old guard....

No, you posed a question to no specific group hence you got replies from people who use the forum most which tends to be established expats. Posing that same question to newly arrived expats would seem self defeating since they probably don't have the necessary exposure to answer the question and are also unlikely to be forum users to any great extent during their early days. Soooo, how else may we be of help?

[ScotsExpat]

I posed a question to new arrivals into Thailand, and get deflective post over deflective post from established expats, bar a few that attempted to focus the topic on the OP...

Here I was trying to gauge the initial impression one gets when arriving here, and Im not going to get that from the old guard....

No, you posed a question to no specific group - Titling the post One For The Recent Expat Arrivals was, I thought, being specific enough.. obviously not... hence you got replies from people who use the forum most which tends to be established expats.- This site is viewed by many people who are considering coming, have just arrived or have been here for some time.. If you are telling me that is is the same old lot who post on this site, the question should probably morph into Why did you stop visiting TV... Posing that same question to newly arrived expats would seem self defeating since they probably don't have the necessary exposure to answer the question - When discussing first impressions, you don't need that much exposure, its kinda the definition of first impressions.. and are also unlikely to be forum users to any great extent during their early days - Why so? They know everything?? Its surely pre arrival or in the early days when new arrivals would visit more, for information etc... Soooo, how else may we be of help?

[MrHammer]

In the end you should probably look for better and new avenues to find company if you only meet losers. May I suggest Meetup.com groups and entrepreneur networks instead. People who meet because of a common shared, non whoring activity.

[ScotsExpat]

I really do despair...

Instead of initiating a discussion on the initial impressions of new arrivals into Thailand, I get told I am drinking in the wrong bars, talking to the wrong people...

All you have to do is read the almost daily posts somewhere within TV to realise that someone is either setting themselves up for, is currently suffering from or has suffered a situation where they let their dick rule their brain... And yet it is hardly ever their fault... Its the girls fault, the families fault, the ex-BF's fault...

Whilst it may be on the wane, is that down to the girls being better, the families being more understanding or the ex-BF's staying out of the picture...

Or is it more to do with the fact that the demographic now arriving into LOS is not necessarily here, running away from their old lives but here as a step on their own paths which does not include spending the rest of their days here...

I no longer expect an intelligent answer to this, so will let you all tell me once more how its my fault..

[up2you2]

I really do despair...

Instead of initiating a discussion on the initial impressions of new arrivals into Thailand, I get told I am drinking in the wrong bars, talking to the wrong people...

All you have to do is read the almost daily posts somewhere within TV to realise that someone is either setting themselves up for, is currently suffering from or has suffered a situation where they let their dick rule their brain... And yet it is hardly ever their fault... Its the girls fault, the families fault, the ex-BF's fault...

Whilst it may be on the wane, is that down to the girls being better, the families being more understanding or the ex-BF's staying out of the picture...

Or is it more to do with the fact that the demographic now arriving into LOS is not necessarily here, running away from their old lives but here as a step on their own paths which does not include spending the rest of their days here...

I no longer expect an intelligent answer to this, so will let you all tell me once more how its my fault..

You're right, I've yet to meet someone who hasn't run away from their "old problems".

The new brigade as opposed to the old brigade don't have this luxury, but instead feel that coming to Thailand might be interpreted as some kind of career enhancement on their CV - wrong, wrong, wrong.

Take the game of word association.

Back in the West, mention the word Thailand and ask just anybody for their first thought - sex.

Go ahead and ask them for their second concious or sub concious thought on the country, and I'll put money on it (true or false) underage sex.

Britain is going through a sexual revolution at the moment due to the masses of cases of paedophiles being exposed, it's got so bad that even those that are coming to Thailand just for a holiday think twice, before they tell their employers, colleagues, family and friends.

So these young New Expats are in my opinion committing vocational suicide, in even considering adding Thailand to their curriculum vitae.

Yeah there'll be those smart-alecks that think they can enter Singapore in lieu on their return, but the polygraph test of Google doesn't lie.

They think that their enthusiasm can compensate for their lack of experience, well for the Thais the rules of the jungle apply, treating them with honorary disdain, nubile cannon fodder making a welcome alternative to the old farang meat.

Just like everybody who's come before them, the deck is totally stacked against them.

[chiang mai]

I really do despair...

Instead of initiating a discussion on the initial impressions of new arrivals into Thailand, I get told I am drinking in the wrong bars, talking to the wrong people...

All you have to do is read the almost daily posts somewhere within TV to realise that someone is either setting themselves up for, is currently suffering from or has suffered a situation where they let their dick rule their brain... And yet it is hardly ever their fault... Its the girls fault, the families fault, the ex-BF's fault...

Whilst it may be on the wane, is that down to the girls being better, the families being more understanding or the ex-BF's staying out of the picture...

Or is it more to do with the fact that the demographic now arriving into LOS is not necessarily here, running away from their old lives but here as a step on their own paths which does not include spending the rest of their days here...

I no longer expect an intelligent answer to this, so will let you all tell me once more how its my fault..

Part of the answer involves the Forex markets, when the baht was trading around 75 to the Pound, Thailand attracted a lot of the less wealthy Westerners, for the past four years however the rate has dropped significantly to around 45 per Pound and a lot of the old brigade has been forced to leave and since the cost of living here has increased over the past four years, there are fewer less wealthy retiress arriving here. Also, the expat job market in Thailand pre 2000 was quite small, today it's quite vibrant where a whole host of expat jobs exist in the corporate world, your own current job being one of them I suspect. So yes, the reasons for comming to Thailand in the first place have changed and that in itself has altered the profile of expats, it's now longer the cheap long term adventure that it once was and instead it is becomming possible to work here for a couple of years in order to get Asian work experience whilst working for a global corporate, in that respect however it still has far to go before it matches the likes of say Singapore or Hong Kong. Newbies however would be unlikely to know those things whereas the old gauard should.

[TommoPhysicist]

Part of the answer involves the Forex markets, when the baht was trading around 75 to the Pound, Thailand attracted a lot of the less wealthy Westerners, for the past four years however the rate has dropped significantly to around 45 per Pound and a lot of the old brigade has been forced to leave and since the cost of living here has increased over the past four years, there are fewer less wealthy retiress arriving here. Also, the expat job market in Thailand pre 2000 was quite small, today it's quite vibrant where a whole host of expat jobs exist in the corporate world, your own current job being one of them I suspect. So yes, the reasons for comming to Thailand in the first place have changed and that in itself has altered the profile of expats, it's now longer the cheap long term adventure that it once was and instead it is becomming possible to work here for a couple of years in order to get Asian work experience whilst working for a global corporate, in that respect however it still has far to go before it matches the likes of say Singapore or Hong Kong. Newbies however would be unlikely to know those things whereas the old gauard should.

From four years ago my petrol has gone up from 33bht/l to 36bht/l

The exchange rate was 50bht/ukp. now it's 49bht/UKP

Housing, same

Not sure what you think has gone up in that time, it appears to me the price rises are trivial compared to the west.