A S T V Loses Signal After Soldiers' Protest: Bangkok

[Locationthailand]

Simple really - Army is not allowed to be involved in politics - period. They also have through their psyche sergeant major, delivered an unveiled threat - basically intimidation. But as this errs on the side of a slight against Yellows and supports the Reds, I doubt anything will be done about it. And was it not army assassins and weapons who tapped Sondhi on his way to work? There is more to this of course.

[InActionMan]

Amazing. Say ing something is enough to get the army to rally.

What about following orders, discipline, rank, order. Who the hell allowed these idiots to do this? Are these men soldiers?

Call them soldiers, protesting like this they are acting like *******

I am not going to say anything, cuz they might come visit me. What a bunch of *******

A disclipined organistaion ? they are acting like their politicians

[jayboy]

join the army, hand in your rights as a citizen because you have become a mindless killing machine.

Why is it that the sight of a green uniform drives some people to vent their bile and bias? Not that long ago the same citizens were working their butt off in horrible conditions to help flood victims. Now that the floods have subsided they are vilified for holding a peaceful unarmed protest against insults from a pack of ultra-nationalist warmongers aimed at a leader they respect.

Strange how apologists for the army's abuses always refer to the flooding relief effort - as though their misdemeanours should be forgiven for doing their job.

Strange how the usual suspects once so protective of ASTV and the PAD ideas are now talking about a pack of ultra nationalist warmongers

Strange that there seems not the slightest conception that a gang of soldiers harrassing a TV station - with the threat of "further action" - may not be consistent with the army's role.(Try that act on in Beijing, Tokyo, Washington or London and the culprits would be peeling potatoes in an instant)

However I'm not here to make political points, simpply express my solidarity with ASTV.

I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiments, but sorting the flood was not the army's job. They took control because the inept and corrupt civilian authorities responsible were too busy scamming to do their job. I saw some of the fantastic work the soldiers did first hand, and many people would have suffered a lot more without them.

But, that is no excuse for behaving like this small group did. I don't think they did this out of their own initiative.

It's standard procedure for the armed forces to be involved in flood relief and indeed help out in any natural disaster.They did a good job....but it was their job.

What was sickening were the apologists for the many crimes of the military top brass suggesting or implying that good work in helping out in a natural disaster somehow made up for the legacy of incompetence, corruption,political meddling and venality.

As far as the guys taking part in the ASTV incident they were NCOs or enlisted men.They need a talking to about civic responsibility but they aren't really the guilty ones.They take their lead from senior officers.

[arthurboy]

Read your history folks; the RTA have long supported whoever and whatever happens to be in their immediate or long term interests.

And it ain't anything to do with serving the people of Thailand.

[khunken]

Oz mick: You write good stuff but you're off the mark here.

This wasn't just a protest - it was intimidation, just like the red-shirt tactics. Rixalex is right in that if they want to protest, they should have taken off their uniforms. Civilians have a right to protest - the police and army do not when they are in uniform or on duty.

[metisdead]

A post using disguised profanity has been removed, if you cannot post without using that train of thought, don't bother posting.

[OzMick]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

[15Peter20]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

Well, if you're asking people to accept the army behaving in the same way as the red mobs you so clearly despise, ie forming ad hoc gangs to go and intimidate private enterprises they don't agree with, then it seems you're love of the army trumps respect for any other institution in the land.

We get it. You were a squaddie and went through 'all that'. I think your perspective has been somewhat narrowed by your experience, which I guess is not uncommon among most posters here so I'm not having a go at you per se, just sayin.

[jayboy]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

The printed and broadcast media routinely insult Thaksin, as do many (mainly) middle class Sino Thai urban types on the social networks.You have just had to resubmit a post because you insulted him rather boorishly and unintelligently yourself.I am aware of pressure by redshirts and yellowshirts on the media in the past though not I think recently.It is however completely irrelevant and your question would have been redundant if you had paid closer attention.I will repeat the theme of this thread since like so many attached to a one dimensional narrative you appear challenged when needing to absorb new information.The army is an entirely different position from protesting civilians, and no comparison can usefully be made.Soldiers may most certainly have political views but they may not when in uniform form gangs to threaten the media and threaten "further action".To most people including those who normally share your views understand this very well.One at least has suggested you reconsider your position.It is good advice.Take it.

[DocN]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

2 wrongs don't make a right!

[OzMick]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

The printed and broadcast media routinely insult Thaksin, as do many (mainly) middle class Sino Thai urban types on the social networks.You have just had to resubmit a post because you insulted him rather boorishly and unintelligently yourself.I am aware of pressure by redshirts and yellowshirts on the media in the past though not I think recently.It is however completely irrelevant and your question would have been redundant if you had paid closer attention.I will repeat the theme of this thread since like so many attached to a one dimensional narrative you appear challenged when needing to absorb new information.The army is an entirely different position from protesting civilians, and no comparison can usefully be made.Soldiers may most certainly have political views but they may not when in uniform form gangs to threaten the media and threaten "further action".To most people including those who normally share your views understand this very well.One at least has suggested you reconsider your position.It is good advice.Take it.

The "boorish and unintelligent" term I used is the closest English version i could think of, and still misses out on several levels of cultural nuance. Insults of Thaksin are generally referring to his lack of ethics and rapacious nature, and have basis in truth (which probably hurts more).

Protesting civilians quite often wear their uniforms when protesting something related to their employment. But for some reason the colour green is intimidating, as is an unspecified referral to further action. Why are soldiers not allowed the same right as firemen, nurses and bus drivers who will regularly demonstrate in uniform when appropriate.

No-one formed gangs to threaten the media. A number of well-dressed polite individuals turned up to register displeasure at a gratuitous insult from A (singular) media outlet. It is as far from a red shirt protest as you can get and still be on the same planet. Take a good long look at the OP picture - except for their clothing (in your opinion) what are these people doing that is wrong?

Take your good advice and condescending attitude and place them where the sun don't shine. I will hold my own opinions and defend them as best I can.

@peter Experience doesn't narrow perspective, it broadens it. I have no love of the RTA or any other army, but I do understand the rigors of military life, and the mindless bias exhibited by others, who have no such experience, even towards those who are conscripted.

[jayboy]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

The printed and broadcast media routinely insult Thaksin, as do many (mainly) middle class Sino Thai urban types on the social networks.You have just had to resubmit a post because you insulted him rather boorishly and unintelligently yourself.I am aware of pressure by redshirts and yellowshirts on the media in the past though not I think recently.It is however completely irrelevant and your question would have been redundant if you had paid closer attention.I will repeat the theme of this thread since like so many attached to a one dimensional narrative you appear challenged when needing to absorb new information.The army is an entirely different position from protesting civilians, and no comparison can usefully be made.Soldiers may most certainly have political views but they may not when in uniform form gangs to threaten the media and threaten "further action".To most people including those who normally share your views understand this very well.One at least has suggested you reconsider your position.It is good advice.Take it.

The "boorish and unintelligent" term I used is the closest English version i could think of, and still misses out on several levels of cultural nuance. Insults of Thaksin are generally referring to his lack of ethics and rapacious nature, and have basis in truth (which probably hurts more).

Protesting civilians quite often wear their uniforms when protesting something related to their employment. But for some reason the colour green is intimidating, as is an unspecified referral to further action. Why are soldiers not allowed the same right as firemen, nurses and bus drivers who will regularly demonstrate in uniform when appropriate.

No-one formed gangs to threaten the media. A number of well-dressed polite individuals turned up to register displeasure at a gratuitous insult from A (singular) media outlet. It is as far from a red shirt protest as you can get and still be on the same planet. Take a good long look at the OP picture - except for their clothing (in your opinion) what are these people doing that is wrong?

Take your good advice and condescending attitude and place them where the sun don't shine. I will hold my own opinions and defend them as best I can.

@peter Experience doesn't narrow perspective, it broadens it. I have no love of the RTA or any other army, but I do understand the rigors of military life, and the mindless bias exhibited by others, who have no such experience, even towards those who are conscripted.

If you can't or won't understand the difference between uniformed soldiers and nurses demonstrating, I probably can't help you further.

Why are you comparing these soldiers (these polite well dressed individuals) with a redshirt protest? It's a meaningless comparison.

If you have to ask what these soldiers did wrong, you haven't been reading comments on this thread.Incidentally the advice that you should stop digging yourself further into a hole came not from me but from a member sympathetic to your political views.

Empathy with serving soldiers is a good thing but is again entirely irrelevant to the topic.

[inquisitive]

BTW chain of command does NOT stop soldiers thinking, having feelings and being offended. Try to grasp the concept of off-duty.

Try to grasp the idea that while in uniform, soldiers are representatives of the army. If they want to act like civilians, they cannot appear to be army. And I think it's not too hard to grasp that when they took their oath, they gave up LOTS of rights. For example, they don't get to eat, sleep, or even defacate when they feel like it. They don't get to speak whenever they want, nor can they say whatever they want except at certain limited and specific times allowed by their superior officers. They can't decide who they are going to shoot or who they just don't feel like shooting. When was the last time you heard of an officer asking a lower-ranked soldier if he would mind doing whatever he was ordered to do? Are you getting the picture? They are allowed to think and feel only because it is impossible to stop them from doing so, but they are NOT allowed to act on those thoughts or feelings except in certain very limited circumstances. The way it works is that the society should be democratic but the army cannot be. I know some people seem to get those two things confused. But think about it: if every army was truly democratic and every soldier could do exactly as he pleased at all times, how would they function? Just how many intelligent people are going to say "gee, I feel like going over there to have those other soldiers in those funny uniforms try to kill me. Can you hand me a gun, Sarge?" Or how about "Golly, this battle isn't going so well. It's really noisy and all my friends are getting killed. I think I'll stop fighting now and go watch a Thai soap opera on TV".

Soldiers in uniform simply cannot do whatever they please, even if someone hurt their feelings.

[OzMick]

My apologies. I will re-phrase.

What do you think the response would have been if the same or other media outlet used the same terms to describe Thaksin? Do you think his private militia would be as polite in their demands to stop base insults? For that matter, as well dressed in their "uniforms"?

It's a pity that the Thai populace did not react the same way as the people of Australia when one of out latest VC awardees was attacked on a personal level for no defendable reason. At least there the offenders had the sense to grovel an apology.

The printed and broadcast media routinely insult Thaksin, as do many (mainly) middle class Sino Thai urban types on the social networks.You have just had to resubmit a post because you insulted him rather boorishly and unintelligently yourself.I am aware of pressure by redshirts and yellowshirts on the media in the past though not I think recently.It is however completely irrelevant and your question would have been redundant if you had paid closer attention.I will repeat the theme of this thread since like so many attached to a one dimensional narrative you appear challenged when needing to absorb new information.The army is an entirely different position from protesting civilians, and no comparison can usefully be made.Soldiers may most certainly have political views but they may not when in uniform form gangs to threaten the media and threaten "further action".To most people including those who normally share your views understand this very well.One at least has suggested you reconsider your position.It is good advice.Take it.

The "boorish and unintelligent" term I used is the closest English version i could think of, and still misses out on several levels of cultural nuance. Insults of Thaksin are generally referring to his lack of ethics and rapacious nature, and have basis in truth (which probably hurts more).

Protesting civilians quite often wear their uniforms when protesting something related to their employment. But for some reason the colour green is intimidating, as is an unspecified referral to further action. Why are soldiers not allowed the same right as firemen, nurses and bus drivers who will regularly demonstrate in uniform when appropriate.

No-one formed gangs to threaten the media. A number of well-dressed polite individuals turned up to register displeasure at a gratuitous insult from A (singular) media outlet. It is as far from a red shirt protest as you can get and still be on the same planet. Take a good long look at the OP picture - except for their clothing (in your opinion) what are these people doing that is wrong?

Take your good advice and condescending attitude and place them where the sun don't shine. I will hold my own opinions and defend them as best I can.

@peter Experience doesn't narrow perspective, it broadens it. I have no love of the RTA or any other army, but I do understand the rigors of military life, and the mindless bias exhibited by others, who have no such experience, even towards those who are conscripted.

If you can't or won't understand the difference between uniformed soldiers and nurses demonstrating, I probably can't help you further.

Why are you comparing these soldiers (these polite well dressed individuals) with a redshirt protest? It's a meaningless comparison.

If you have to ask what these soldiers did wrong, you haven't been reading comments on this thread.Incidentally the advice that you should stop digging yourself further into a hole came not from me but from a member sympathetic to your political views.

Empathy with serving soldiers is a good thing but is again entirely irrelevant to the topic.

I will repeat it slowly for you.

Look at the picture. What are they doing that is wrong?

Can you spell "mindless bias"? Its not as hard as phenomenon.

[inquisitive]

Take a good long look at the OP picture - except for their clothing (in your opinion) what are these people doing that is wrong?

It doesn't show in the picture, Silly. It's not their uniforms, so nice an well-pressed. It is what they are saying. They are intentionally threatening and intimidating. In America, that crime is called "technical assault" and it is a jailable offense. Do you actually not get it?

Hey, I'm not saying the ASTV is right or wrong, but I do know it is wrong to do what those guys are doing, and I know it is double wrong to do it while wearing military uniforms. If they are carrying weapons, then they are even more wrong. If they imply that their actions are sanctioned by an officer when in fact they have not been, then they are wrong yet again.

Maybe we should use this as a teaching example and ask the question: What would be the correct way for these soldiers to demonstrate their displeasure with some words they heard?" (Does that ring any bells? Like from third grade? If not, then you have been cheated in your education.)

[phoneguy702]

I would much rather hear about the "Technical Difficulties" and how they were resolved. As to the soldiers being in uniform and making veiled threats it is childish. Any professional soldier, unit or army would not protest or allow it's members to protest in uniform. What you say without your uniform or the intended influence of your military membership or position is your own business. Tarnishing the image of a professional military as being involved in politics is an insult to your profession. It seems this group was put up to the job and this says more about the childish and unprofessional attitudes of their superiors than it does about these enlisted soldiers.

[muttley]

Amazing. Saying something is enough to get the army to rally.

What about following orders, discipline, rank, order. Who the hell allowed these idiots to do this? Are these men soldiers?

Call them soldiers, protesting like this they are acting like *******

I am not going to say anything, cuz they might come visit me. What a bunch of *******

"Who the hell allowed these idiots to do this"

Personally speaking I would say it is the collective fault of various Thai governments not to rein in the Army let alone bring them to bear their responsibility of their heinous actions in the following events

1901 - 02 Crackdown on Taxation Uprising

1952 45 killed including President of Labour Congress

1973 October 77 killed mainly young working class or students

1974 - 76 Crackdown on "Communist" activity

1976 41 killed University massacre

2003 Kue Se Mosque

2003 Tak Bai

2004 onwards Southern States

2009 2 dead maybe more

2010 80 - 85 dead

You keep on getting away with it, you begin to feel you are above the law.....

[muttley]

join the army, hand in your rights as a citizen because you have become a mindless killing machine.

Why is it that the sight of a green uniform drives some people to vent their bile and bias? Not that long ago the same citizens were working their butt off in horrible conditions to help flood victims. Now that the floods have subsided they are vilified for holding a peaceful unarmed protest against insults from a pack of ultra-nationalist warmongers aimed at a leader they respect.

Possibly because not two years ago they saw those same green uniforms kill their fellow citizens. They were only following orders of course. I do wish you'd remember the RTA has prior, lots of it.

Have you read the collected thoughts of Chairman Prayuth Chan Ocha? The man is a dinosaur and the "respect" is fear.

[Thai at Heart]

It might be the cheesiest quote, and i will give full marks to whom can name the movie.

"we aren't here (the army), to practice democracy, but to protect it".

[OzMick]

join the army, hand in your rights as a citizen because you have become a mindless killing machine.

Why is it that the sight of a green uniform drives some people to vent their bile and bias? Not that long ago the same citizens were working their butt off in horrible conditions to help flood victims. Now that the floods have subsided they are vilified for holding a peaceful unarmed protest against insults from a pack of ultra-nationalist warmongers aimed at a leader they respect.

Possibly because not two years ago they saw those same green uniforms kill their fellow citizens. They were only following orders of course. I do wish you'd remember the RTA has prior, lots of it.

Have you read the collected thoughts of Chairman Prayuth Chan Ocha? The man is a dinosaur and the "respect" is fear.

And the "citizens" they were killing had prior too, but that's alright because they were following the legitimate commands of a deposed criminal.

oOf course the man is a dinosaur, to be feared and respected - that is what the position calls for. Limp-wrist pussies don't get to be CIC of an army, but they are allowed to label those that do as dinosaurs.

[stoli]

The military rights and the civilian right are drastically different. Soldiers take orders, not make them on their own. They must have discipline in what they do or the system fails. They should not be out doing protests, without an order to do so, and then those orders must also be looked at above those who made them.

[OzMick]

The military rights and the civilian right are drastically different. Soldiers take orders, not make them on their own. They must have discipline in what they do or the system fails. They should not be out doing protests, without an order to do so, and then those orders must also be looked at above those who made them.

Attention! Breathe in. Wait for it - Breathe out.............................................

Another non-citizen wishing to deny Thai citizens their rights because they wish, or have been conscripted, to serve their country.

[geovalin]

As usual Thais (well, I mean these kinds of Thais: army and yellow) will reconcile on the back of the Cambodians. Nothing better than a good old war to make unity.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed

[Mitker]

Although I am opposed to ASTV for a wide variety of reasons it would be completely hypocritical not to give my full and unreserved support now in the face of this harassment by soldiers and the scarcely veiled threats they have made against the station. Let me spell it out. It is neither here nor there that some feelings were hurt. All soldiers who joined this protest should be disciplined because the army is meant to be non political. It does not matter that ASTV stands for all I see as negative in Thai politics. On this occasion I am entirely on its side

You surprised me today, Jayboy.