Smoke, Smog, Dust 2013 Chiang Mai

[Rancid]

I have 3M filters on my a/cs and afer a cople of weeks they are black, and that is just recycling air in the house with the windows all closed.

[Mapguy]

I have 3M filters on my a/cs and afer a cople of weeks they are black, and that is just recycling air in the house with the windows all closed.

Note: Before proceeding, since this is one of my usual lengthy posts which can really go on and on, the fun part might be the "smut" at the end!

Yes,Rancid, 3M filters get black, and your comments are relevant. At least this forum gives us a place to vent. Before moving on to other things, I would like to mention one air conditioner maintenance man who says that the 3M filters are fine, will not hurt an air conditioner; just throw them out after two-three months. This is, of course,understanding that you should have a "check-up" of any air conditioner once a year and a serious cleaning from time to time, not necessarily once a year. Works for me!

Not to throw a spanner into the conversation, but the 3M filtrate filters do not filter out PM<2.5, the really nasty stuff that is 40 - 60% of the PM<10 density. There really isn't a practical way to do that. Of course, different filtering systems can make sensitive people much more comfortable. There really is no one size that fits all. If you are really serious about filtering systems, do some research right here on TV Chiang Mai. Last year (similar search topic title), there was some solid discussion and very useful factual information. I (as any one else in my family), like UG, am fortunate not to be noticeably bothered by the air pollution problem. Others, like Winnie the Kwai, make reasonable choices (backed by more than reasonable income) to head out of the muck. I do, however, feel grumpy when I see people following that road since sympathetic of those who can't possibly afford that option.

By the way, very few people are going to die next Tuesday from this season's air pollution. Some, tragically, will; probably weakened by that and other problems, as well. There are, however, reasonable "scientific" and commonsensical thoughts on this matter about shortening average life span as well as bringing on less but still acute problems for the very vulnerable.

The scientific approach is very helpful, if carried out properly, but it often indicates a path to rather than arriving at a meaningful useful conclusion. That is why our TV Chiang Mai resident (but this year's absent) scientific and statistical method disciple Priceless has even written that he believes that the two regular data collection points in an entire large province reflect the broad state of pollution within the province. Some people just believe their noses, and while I was once making a bit of fun but still serious, I wrote last year that it does help to realize that "Your nose knows !" So, I don't think they are wrong while, in a broader sense, I believe that Priceless is basically right.

Is it worth yelling about the problem here and elsewhere? Yes, it is. More generally, as suggested in at least one post above, there is a socio-economic cultural problem that fits into a broad historical context.

Back to venting, lambasting Thailand isn't helpful in my view. Indeed, all countries historically, seem to go through, or have passed through, similar cycles tied to economic development and population growth. Any Brits or Germans want to comment on the rape of their lands' forest, and so on? Tall timbers for ship masts, sailors? Poisoning the Black Forest, what little is left, with autobahn and industrial assault? The whole notion of environmental sustainability is really historically very,very recent. So, if you are from an economically advanced country, don't be too damn prissy!

This is, as usual, too long a post. So, I will shut up. For now!

Except, here comes the smut !!!

Right now, I am hopeful that the local media will start doing some serious journalism.

The City News seems almost exclusively interested in a casual, often very personal op ed kind of approach and cheap advocacy journalism (e.g., I can't walk to a restaurant on Nimmenhamen without hitting my head on a sign.) plus printing the usual PR releases from government agencies. Recently, there seems to be an awkward but feeble effort to break out of that bag. Basic sound journalism? Read it. Reach your own conclusions. Am I feeling grumpy about this? Yes, to a point. The paper would not even post my casual concerns about the lack of professional journalism (as opposed to casual gossip masquerading as fact) on their own blog!!

The Chiang Mai Mail recently received an award from the province for "best English Language media in Chiang Mai," or something like that! For what? Best lap dog? What a sad excuse for a "newspaper!" It isn't more than a PR screed. It is simply not worth reading! Period! End of story!

The Post? Basically a failure! Check out that paper's web site! Joke!

Maybe "journalists" in town should spend less time going out for dinner and posing for pictures ?!

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Mapguy

PM 2.5 can be greatly reduced indoors with an Ionizer. Worth looking into.

http://www.healthyenvironments.ca/pdf/3.pdf

For the 3m filters I think a lot of people might be doing it wrong as I was. Putting the filter inside the unit over the screens lets a lot of air blow by the edges as well as sucking particles into the unit. I would recommend putting the filter on the outside and completely covering the intake vent. This way all air getting into the AC is filtered and keeps it cleaner in general. Try it out and stand in front of the air exhaust and see if one can tell with eye irritation. Different units probably slightly different hacks but some people might be doing Filtrete sub optimally and not really getting results.

The big issue with air pollution is inflammation. Some people might notice inflammation symptoms like sinus, lungs or skin but inflammation is largely silent as is the case with Arteriosclerosis. So not noticing anything is misleading.

Get a CRP (C Reactive Protein) blood test in and out of pollution season and its very noticeable elevation of inflammation markers.

Inflammation is basis of most modern diseases including cancer. It's slow process but if a person raises inflammation over time then its going to have negative consequences.

Total inflammation is result of many factors such as diet and lifestyle as well environmental challenges.

That's why when people go to the doctor and get informed of a well progressed disease they often remark. I didn't notice anything changing to lead to this.

It's slow boiling of the frog.

Edited April 1, 2013 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Rasseru]

'Not to throw a spanner into the conversation, but the 3M filtrate filters do not filter out PM<2.5, the really nasty stuff that is 40 - 60% of the PM<10 density.'

Not to try to extract your spanner, Mapguy, but I am surprised by this. I am not suggesting I think you are wrong, but I am quite surprised. Why? Because the simple 3M 8210 N95 particulate respirators that I use are said by 3M to filter out roughly 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns in size. And I understand that that 0.3 is in the same measurement scale as the 2.5 in 'PM<2.5'. If all that is right -- and perhaps it is not and you will explain why -- I wonder why 3M would not be able to make filtrate filters for air conditioners that are just as effective.

Also, I don't use an air conditioner, but I have two Swiss-made machines (for which their manufacturer IQAir uses the fancy term 'air cleaning systems') that use air filters and whose technical specifications say that they are approximately 99.97% effective for particles that are 0.3 microns or larger in size. If IQAir can do it there, again I wonder why 3M cannot do it with filters for air conditioners.

[chiang mai]

'Not to throw a spanner into the conversation, but the 3M filtrate filters do not filter out PM<2.5, the really nasty stuff that is 40 - 60% of the PM<10 density.'

Not to try to extract your spanner, Mapguy, but I am surprised by this. I am not suggesting I think you are wrong, but I am quite surprised. Why? Because the simple 3M 8210 N95 particulate respirators that I use are said by 3M to filter out roughly 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns in size. And I understand that that 0.3 is in the same measurement scale as the 2.5 in 'PM<2.5'. If all that is right -- and perhaps it is not and you will explain why -- I wonder why 3M would not be able to make filtrate filters for air conditioners that are just as effective.

Also, I don't use an air conditioner, but I have two Swiss-made machines (for which their manufacturer IQAir uses the fancy term 'air cleaning systems') that use air filters and whose technical specifications say that they are approximately 99.97% effective for particles that are 0.3 microns or larger in size. If IQAir can do it there, again I wonder why 3M cannot do it with filters for air conditioners.

Is the wrong answer, the following from the 3M site:

The efficiency of Filtrete filters approaches that of the top-of-the-line electronic air cleaners.

"Some tests indicate that in the large particle size range (1.0-10microns), Filtrete filters are more effective. Price is a factor, too.

Top electronic units cost $500 - $800 and require monthly maintenance.Filtrete filters cost a fraction of this price, and generally only need

attention every three months"

http://www.filtrete.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/FiltreteUS/Filtrete/Resources/Faq/#a6

[Rasseru]

What I offered, chiang mai, was in the nature not of an answer, but of a question. And one that has not, as best I can tell, been answered.

[chiang mai]

What I offered, chiang mai, was in the nature not of an answer, but of a question. And one that has not, as best I can tell, been answered.

Sorry Rasseru, that post directed at Mapguy not you.

[Mapguy]

'Not to throw a spanner into the conversation, but the 3M filtrate filters do not filter out PM<2.5, the really nasty stuff that is 40 - 60% of the PM<10 density.'

Not to try to extract your spanner, Mapguy, but I am surprised by this. I am not suggesting I think you are wrong, but I am quite surprised. Why? Because the simple 3M 8210 N95 particulate respirators that I use are said by 3M to filter out roughly 95% of particles down to 0.3 microns in size. And I understand that that 0.3 is in the same measurement scale as the 2.5 in 'PM<2.5'. If all that is right -- and perhaps it is not and you will explain why -- I wonder why 3M would not be able to make filtrate filters for air conditioners that are just as effective.

Also, I don't use an air conditioner, but I have two Swiss-made machines (for which their manufacturer IQAir uses the fancy term 'air cleaning systems') that use air filters and whose technical specifications say that they are approximately 99.97% effective for particles that are 0.3 microns or larger in size. If IQAir can do it there, again I wonder why 3M cannot do it with filters for air conditioners.

Ah, the 8210 N95 particulate respirator. Looks like a "Darth Vader Lite" model I was talking about the Filtrate room air conditioner "cut to fit" filter blanket you can purchase at Home Pro or such places. Check out last year's very thorough discussion of various filters. I was just recalling it all generally. There was quite a discussion. See what you think.

In the meantime, you apparently have a very good machine I am not aware of. There was quite a bit of research and discussion posted last year about those, also, as I recall.

Maybe a relatively easy way to get to those discussions is to search "HEPA."

But no air conditioners these days ?! You must be broiling in your own juices ! Or you are certainly better acclimated than I!

[Rasseru]

Thanks for your thoughts on the subject, Mapguy. I'm still puzzled, frankly, but I imagine I'll get used to it.

[caffeinetrip]

Instead of everyone just talking and complaining about the air pollution can we please do something about it?

The biggest problem and most immediate fix isn't just the smoke and burning, it's the car smog pollution that is being trapped under the smoke. It is the carbon monoxide that is what is really dangerous to our health. Everyday I see at least 30 tuk-tuks, songthaew's, trucks cars and old motorbikes that have excessive black and white smoke come out of their exhaust systems.

How can we get the government to enforce smog checks of these cars/trucks?

Anyone have a list of emails that we can send suggestions and complaints to?

Anyone up for filming a documentary showing the exhaust smoke coming out of tuk-tuk's and trucks?

If you want to do something - which is good - you need to educate yourself as to the causes of the smoke.

Before you even do any research, think about it for a second. Do Tuk Tuks and cars drive only in March every year? Or do they drive all year round, regardless? Do they drive more in March than any other time? Or pretty much the same no matter what time of the year it is.

Think about it. Then you'll come to the conclusion that Tuk Tuks and cars are not the problem.

What is seasonal is the LARGE SCALE burning of forests, fields, in the entire region of northern, easter, Thailand, Burma and Laos. Check out the satellite pix.

Once you know the cause of the problem, you can start doing something. Just educate yourself first.

Nikster, I'm not an idiot. I know that burning is the cause of the smoke during burning season. However, as I stated before, it is the car pollution that is being trapped under the smoke that is most immediately hazardous to our health. The large scale burning, especially from other countries isn't something we can immediately do something about but controlling car pollution is.

Instead of everyone wasting their time complaining about the problems and smoke, let's actually do something about it.

You can start by emailing:

Office of the Consumer Protection [email protected], Office of Tourism Development - [email protected] and to Bureau of Prevention and Assistance in Tourist Fraud - [email protected]

I also emailed TAT, the Tourism Authority and received the following response: For your information, as per Thailand's laws and regulations, the Tourism Authority of Thailand will act as an intermediary only and will deliver all tourist complaints to the concerned organization. Also, the Tourism Authority of Thailand has no authority to handle this particular issue, as it is for the above departments to handle.

Another big help is if people start taking photos of car pollution and videos. Even better is if someone wants to make a documentary of, "Amazing Thailand, Ruined."

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Check it out.. They are installing mister systems on some of the popular routes for Sonkran.

http://www.cm108.com/bbb/index.php?/topic/56566-adhoaoaaeaeuouneadhoeaiaeaoa-aianeaaoui/

Hopefully if will be considered beyond the holiday because these can really improve the air when one is on the stinky roads.

[mania]

Check it out.. They are installing mister systems on some of the popular routes for Sonkran.

http://www.cm108.com/bbb/index.php?/topic/56566-adhoaoaaeaeuouneadhoeaiaeaoa-aianeaaoui/

Hopefully if will be considered beyond the holiday because these can really improve the air when one is on the stinky roads.

I forgot to mention but last week I saw a mist truck going down the road misting

Big Yellow tank truck with a spray system along the length on top of the tank.

The weird thing is they were blazing 80-100 kph down the Airport highway while spraying.

Would think they would use it in town

Edited April 4, 2013 by mania

[dave2]

re

Instead of everyone wasting their time complaining about the problems and smoke, let's actually do something about it.

they are trying to ! ... this stop burning poster was out in the boonies of doi saket this morning but as you can see the smoke was still quite thick : (

re

Check it out.. They are installing mister systems on some of the popular routes for Sonkran.

hes right : )

dave2

[Jose]

Taken just now: one of these aircon filters (3M Filtrete) is new, the other is six days old.

Aircon location:

Ground floor of San Sai residence inside a high-walled project, 2km away from any main road.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Jose

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^ Nice!

I'm back in Chiang Mai and it seems we're not quite out of the mire yet. So put on new filters and also donated some to my son's kindergarten.

I'm expecting it to end this weekend. Last night's winds seemed cause some improvement, even though no rain.

[Tywais]

Last nights winds were strange in their strength. Came in to the university campus with leaves and debris all over the streets and yards.

An odd thing though. When I opened the door this morning, there were a large number of dead bees (looked like honey bees) on the patio directly in front of the door. Never seen that before. Did they die from smoke inhalation or just blown to death?

[T_Dog]

Taken just now: one of these aircon filters (3M Filtrete) is new, the other is six days old.

Aircon location:

Ground floor of San Sai residence inside a high-walled project, 2km away from any main road.

Great photo!

[puukao]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/air-pollution-linked-to-1-2-million-deaths-in-china.html

I wouldn't take the pollution problem lightly......it's too bad we don't get an email every day that says "OK, you were outside for 4 hours, no face mask, took in x much of whatever pollutants, and will die 11 months earlier. thanks for playing and tune in tomorrow"

[koosdeboer]

This what I saw this morning at a wat in Ban Nam Phrae, Hang Dong. I think they are having a party.

[scotinsiam]

Taken just now: one of these aircon filters (3M Filtrete) is new, the other is six days old.

Aircon location:

Ground floor of San Sai residence inside a high-walled project, 2km away from any main road.

That is a scary picture, imagine that crap in your lungs

[Jose]

48-hour update: 2-day old filters in aircon with brand-new filter for reference.

Aircon runs 24/7 for the purpose of filtering air. Anyone looking at these pics would rightly think that we live next to a major road - this house is one of only two situated in a cul-de-sac, surrounded by lakes and trees with zero through traffic.

[mania]

I think these micro filters are great.

But, I also think what we are seeing in these pics is the increased filtering ability of the smaller pores.

Meaning I do not think it is all necessarily to be attributed to the smog.

I think we also see the dust that is normally in any home adding to the look of the filter.

again due to the smaller micro pores.

Simple test to see if this is true is to install some during non-burning season.

[Jose]

Normally there is hardly any dust in this house, e.g., no dust-generating curtains or furniture inside, and the garden outside has no bare earth.

Before I begun to use the 3M Filtretes a week and a half ago, I found the original plastic aircon filters clogged with this same fine black dust. I previously cleaned the a/c filters back in November and they only had a fine dust covering then.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I have played around with the filtrete in other seasons. It stays a lot cleaner in other times of the year.

If I had to ballpark it it takes a month or two to get as dirty as week during the dangerous levels. Not scientific but my seat of the pants estimate.

Has anyone noticed the Yupparaj sensor is running 20 to 30% higher PM readings than City Hall site?

They demolished the buildings around the Yupparaj site so I think it shows how sensitive the sensors are to their immediate surroundings.

This is why I think some strategic watering could or would significantly affect a sensors readings and why the readings on or near a major road or intersection would be vastly more disturbing picture.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It seems the differences during the day are more pronounced right now.. It's been like this for the past couple days, the following are hourly levels for today:

Although also without the numbers it's clear (heh) to see that mid morning sucks, and then a remarkable clearing up in the afternoon, to much better levels.

I actually plan any outside activities for the afternoon now for that reason.

Edited April 7, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[nikster]

This what I saw this morning at a wat in Ban Nam Phrae, Hang Dong. I think they are having a party.

The locals are crazy.

We drove from BKK back to Chiang Mai today, the smog starts about 50km north of Bangkok. Not kidding! All along the road, fires everywhere, and really bad air, much worse than here in Chiang Mai this evening actually.

[MESmith]

This what I saw this morning at a wat in Ban Nam Phrae, Hang Dong. I think they are having a party.

The locals are crazy.

We drove from BKK back to Chiang Mai today, the smog starts about 50km north of Bangkok. Not kidding! All along the road, fires everywhere, and really bad air, much worse than here in Chiang Mai this evening actually.

Hopefully, this will all be over soon. So I'd just like to take this opportunity to congratulate the authorities on getting on top of the smog problem this year. Totally excelled themselves, & I hope they get a few medals to pin on their chests to reflect the appreciation of the folk living in northern Thailand. Job well done.

[orang37]

It seems the differences during the day are more pronounced right now.. It's been like this for the past couple days, the following are hourly levels for today:

Although also without the numbers it's clear (heh) to see that mid morning sucks, and then a remarkable clearing up in the afternoon, to much better levels.

I actually plan any outside activities for the afternoon now for that reason.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Winnie the Khwai,

It is interesting to think about those numbers:

1. they could be inaccurate

2. to see if there is, indeed, a timeline-trend, would require some statistical analysis over time, although, if we had a week of those kind of numbers per hour, that's certainly a valuable heuristic for deciding when to go out.

3. what factors could be the source of an early am surge ? could it be a shift in the direction of prevailing night-time winds that brings into our area pollution from elsewhere, or the effect of atmospheric cooling, coupled with the "bowl" geography of our Ping River etched valley, that somehow brings down to ground-level particulate matter suspended in warmer air that has risen in the day ... or ... well, i am certainly no meteorologist !

Perhaps some of our more weather/atmosphere knowledgeable members here can comment: that would be appreciated.

thanks, ~o:37;

[chiang mai]

It seems the differences during the day are more pronounced right now.. It's been like this for the past couple days, the following are hourly levels for today:

Capture.PNG

Although also without the numbers it's clear (heh) to see that mid morning sucks, and then a remarkable clearing up in the afternoon, to much better levels.

I actually plan any outside activities for the afternoon now for that reason.

Those numbers seem consistent with people sleeping, waking up and starting fires and then going to work do they not.

[T_Dog]

We flew back to Chiang Mai last night after our smoke escape only to come back too early. As soon as we exited the plane in Chiang Mai we could could smell smoke. Instant stink! Visibility in Mae Taeng was as bad this morning as it has been all this season, but the morning winds cleared it out fairly quickly.

Down in Ao Nong we ran into some tourists from Spain that had been trekking near Pai. They cut their trip short up in the mountains as they said the smoke and burning was quite bad. Looking at the data over that past few years, it looks pretty tough to predict when the smokey season will start and end. We are already planning on not being here next year whenever the smoke starts up. Right now we are just hoping it ends soon so we can go back to enjoying Chiang Mai.