Embattled Brit Lee Chestnutt Forced To Stay In Thailand

[Remix4]

Can the accused sue for loss of earnings?

They can (along with other things) although not until the whole case is over - despite the theft charge not being appealed. Possibly one of the main factors driving them in attempting to delay further using the Supreme Court.

+ point for the Thai legal system however - the judges throughout both the trial and the appeal were excellent. Very supportive and 100% fair. The first date of the trial was held on the same day as the red shirts bail hearing and the judges stated that prosecution needs to be very careful how this is handled and that Thailand's image is not affected when already getting bad publicity abroad (obviously they ignored the warning!)

[Asiantravel]

Just out of general curiosity. If someone (not Mr. Lee) is forced to stay in Thailand by a court, has no money and no family or bank who can/will pay, and is not allowed to work in Thailand. Then who pays for food, shelter etc? Is Thailand, or the persons home country legally obliged to pay?

Interesting question.

And, wouldn't you be scared stiff of putting a foot wrong in whichever place you are renting during the meantime?

[Remix4]

Just out of general curiosity. If someone (not Mr. Lee) is forced to stay in Thailand by a court, has no money and no family or bank who can/will pay, and is not allowed to work in Thailand. Then who pays for food, shelter etc? Is Thailand, or the persons home country legally obliged to pay?

You are forced to pay. The Thai government and the UK government WILL DO NOTHING with regards to financial support

[Thai at Heart]

Can the accused sue for loss of earnings?

They can (along with other things) although not until the whole case is over - despite the theft charge not being appealed. Possibly one of the main factors driving them in attempting to delay further using the Supreme Court.

+ point for the Thai legal system however - the judges throughout both the trial and the appeal were excellent. Very supportive and 100% fair. The first date of the trial was held on the same day as the red shirts bail hearing and the judges stated that prosecution needs to be very careful how this is handled and that Thailand's image is not affected when already getting bad publicity abroad (obviously they ignored the warning!)

This is what i have heard about the judgements over and over again. So, who tells a plaintiff he is wasting his time pursuing the case? From what i have read, this advice never occurs, which gums the system too even more.

[monkeycountry]

If nothing else, i am getting an education about the Thai system.

Can the accused sue for loss of earnings?

In another Thai civil court case a neighbour seriously damaged a house, refused to repair it, and refused to remove the reason the house was continuously being damaged, so the owner could not just repair it himself even if he wanted to. The owner obviously had to let the tenant of the house move out and thereby stop paying rent. As no new tenant could be found due to the house being damaged, the house stood empty for years. The house owner sued the neighbour and won. However, damages could only be claimed for the remainder of the original tenants contract, not for the entire period the house stood empty until it was finally repaired.

Going by the above case one can probably claim damages for lost earnings, but only if a contract with an employer or similar exists, not for potential lost earnings.

One can claim legal fees, but the amount claimed is not the actual amount spent, but instead an amount decided by the court, which has no relation to the actual amount spent. In the above case the amount decided by the court was about 10% of the actual amount spent. For that reason alone one should only file civil suits in Thailand if the amount that can potentially be won is well above the amount one has to pay in legal fees.

[Jim walker]

Something smells a bit fishy about this lot. Always two sides to every story and the truth is some ware in the middle.

[Thai at Heart]

Something smells a bit fishy about this lot. Always two sides to every story and the truth is some ware in the middle.

When you have a system that can accept completely frivolous accusations, it is entirely possible that the middle ground and two sides don't exist.

[Remix4]

Can the accused sue for loss of earnings?

They can (along with other things) although not until the whole case is over - despite the theft charge not being appealed. Possibly one of the main factors driving them in attempting to delay further using the Supreme Court.

+ point for the Thai legal system however - the judges throughout both the trial and the appeal were excellent. Very supportive and 100% fair. The first date of the trial was held on the same day as the red shirts bail hearing and the judges stated that prosecution needs to be very careful how this is handled and that Thailand's image is not affected when already getting bad publicity abroad (obviously they ignored the warning!)

This is what i have heard about the judgements over and over again. So, who tells a plaintiff he is wasting his time pursuing the case? From what i have read, this advice never occurs, which gums the system too even more.

From what I understand (although Im not exactly sure this is 100% accurate) it would be the prosecutor and Im not sure the courts have much power to actually prevent it going to trial if the prosecutor backs it - again I may be wrong.

The courts at the start of this trial attempted to resolve it without going through the full trial - plaintiff was asking 500,000 THB and the courts suggested 50,000 THB but plaintiff refused. In this case the Chief Judge interviened on the 2nd day and called a meeting and offered (if it could be called that) - the defendants plead guilty and pay 500,000 THB and they "may" get off with suspended sentence. If continue to plead not guilty then they WILL go to jail if they lose the trial.

I think the courts tend to favour negotiation at the start to minimise full trials.

[Remix4]

Something smells a bit fishy about this lot. Always two sides to every story and the truth is some ware in the middle.

When you have a system that can accept completely frivolous accusations, it is entirely possible that the middle ground and two sides don't exist.

Totally agree!

[geriatrickid]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but in a case such as this where a plaintiff continues to bring suit and loses, the defendant can in turn bring a suit for damages. Is it not possible that at the end of this exercise is a civil suit with the possibility of a payout for the defendant? If the plaintiff doesn't win or force the defendant to settle, the potential is there for the plaintiff to end up with mega damages?

As someone asked before, has a countersuit been filed, or is this in suspense pending the final outcome?

All in all, this certainly doesn't do much for the reputation of Thailand as a retirement destination. Who needs to live in fear of such litigation?

[Beng]

Why would a british citizen need a visa to return to the UK ??

If the problem is a stamp in his passport,, can't he just get a new one at the embassy ?

Edited January 16, 2013 by Beng

[LaoPo]

Why would a british citizen need a visa to return to the UK ??

If the problem is a stamp in his passport,, can't he just get a new one at the embassy ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-20607769

[LaoPo]

OK ... the ACTUAL facts (from someone who knows):

1. 3.5 years ago plaintiff attempted to extort 500,000 THB and threatened with copies of passports and an arrest warrant. 2 plaintiffs - a) retired high ranking police officer & b ) employee of Thai embassy in London

2. Defendants refused to pay and were arrested walking out of the meeting in Starbucks. Spent one night in jail - released on bail following day.

3. 2 charges - a) theft of 5 pieces of furniture (from an UNFURNISHED house) 200,000 THB & b ) criminal damage of 192,000 THB (which they did not commit)

4. Court verdict NOT GUILTY 18th Jan 2010

5. Plaintiffs appealed ONLY ONE charge (criminal damage). First court refused to back the appeal and said that the charges cannot be split. Prosecutor backed the appeal and was therefore accepted by 1st appeal court.

6. Appeal court verdict 4th Dec 2012 - NOT GUILTY

7. Waited 30 days for documents to clear in order to handle immigration and be able to leave. Court confirmed documents cleared 10th Jan 2013

8. 14th Jan 2013 - Documents revoked and immigration block not removed due to request by Plaintiffs to have a 60 day extension to allow appeal to be submitted to Supreme Court (still only the criminal damage charge).

Hope that helps!

Scary stuff!

It means that the plaintiffs are tough people and hard to deal with.

Some lessons can be learned from this most unusual situation.

1: have a form signed by both parties if you rent with detailed description of the situation, including possible furniture and other belongings.

2: make a movie recording (mobile) of the whole house/apartment/studio with/without furniture and belongings and send it to landlord also, showing you have "proof" of the condition on the day you rent. Store this video on your laptop/iPad/PC also in order not to lose it and proof for the future!

3. have an independent real estate agent or office make up a form, describing the situation BEFORE you leave the apartment (possibly 1 or 2 hours before) terminating the contract, and record another video, with DATE and TIME of the present situation and store it immediately on your computer.

Good luck to the chap involved

Edited January 16, 2013 by LaoPo

[Thai at Heart]

OK ... the ACTUAL facts (from someone who knows):

1. 3.5 years ago plaintiff attempted to extort 500,000 THB and threatened with copies of passports and an arrest warrant. 2 plaintiffs - a) retired high ranking police officer & b ) employee of Thai embassy in London

2. Defendants refused to pay and were arrested walking out of the meeting in Starbucks. Spent one night in jail - released on bail following day.

3. 2 charges - a) theft of 5 pieces of furniture (from an UNFURNISHED house) 200,000 THB & b ) criminal damage of 192,000 THB (which they did not commit)

4. Court verdict NOT GUILTY 18th Jan 2010

5. Plaintiffs appealed ONLY ONE charge (criminal damage). First court refused to back the appeal and said that the charges cannot be split. Prosecutor backed the appeal and was therefore accepted by 1st appeal court.

6. Appeal court verdict 4th Dec 2012 - NOT GUILTY

7. Waited 30 days for documents to clear in order to handle immigration and be able to leave. Court confirmed documents cleared 10th Jan 2013

8. 14th Jan 2013 - Documents revoked and immigration block not removed due to request by Plaintiffs to have a 60 day extension to allow appeal to be submitted to Supreme Court (still only the criminal damage charge).

Hope that helps!

Scary stuff!

It means that the plaintiffs are tough people and hard to deal with.

Some lessons can be learned from this most unusual situation.

1: have a form signed by both parties if you rent with detailed description of the situation, including possible furniture and other belongings.

2: make a movie recording (mobile) of the whole house/apartment/studio with/without furniture and belongings and send it to landlord also, showing you have "proof" of the condition on the day you rent. Store this video on your laptop/iPad/PC also in order not to lose it and proof for the future!

3. have an independent real estate agent or office make up a form, describing the situation BEFORE you leave the apartment (possibly 1 or 2 hours before) terminating the contract, and record another video, with DATE and TIME of the present situation and store it immediately on your computer.

Good luck to the chap involved

My mate is cataloguing and recording every unofficial and official meeting with his soon to be divorced wife.

Got him out of several accusations already. When it comes down to he said, she said, it's invaluable.

[LaoPo]

OK ... the ACTUAL facts (from someone who knows):

1. 3.5 years ago plaintiff attempted to extort 500,000 THB and threatened with copies of passports and an arrest warrant. 2 plaintiffs - a) retired high ranking police officer & b ) employee of Thai embassy in London

2. Defendants refused to pay and were arrested walking out of the meeting in Starbucks. Spent one night in jail - released on bail following day.

3. 2 charges - a) theft of 5 pieces of furniture (from an UNFURNISHED house) 200,000 THB & b ) criminal damage of 192,000 THB (which they did not commit)

4. Court verdict NOT GUILTY 18th Jan 2010

5. Plaintiffs appealed ONLY ONE charge (criminal damage). First court refused to back the appeal and said that the charges cannot be split. Prosecutor backed the appeal and was therefore accepted by 1st appeal court.

6. Appeal court verdict 4th Dec 2012 - NOT GUILTY

7. Waited 30 days for documents to clear in order to handle immigration and be able to leave. Court confirmed documents cleared 10th Jan 2013

8. 14th Jan 2013 - Documents revoked and immigration block not removed due to request by Plaintiffs to have a 60 day extension to allow appeal to be submitted to Supreme Court (still only the criminal damage charge).

Hope that helps!

Scary stuff!

It means that the plaintiffs are tough people and hard to deal with.

Some lessons can be learned from this most unusual situation.

1: have a form signed by both parties if you rent with detailed description of the situation, including possible furniture and other belongings.

2: make a movie recording (mobile) of the whole house/apartment/studio with/without furniture and belongings and send it to landlord also, showing you have "proof" of the condition on the day you rent. Store this video on your laptop/iPad/PC also in order not to lose it and proof for the future!

3. have an independent real estate agent or office make up a form, describing the situation BEFORE you leave the apartment (possibly 1 or 2 hours before) terminating the contract, and record another video, with DATE and TIME of the present situation and store it immediately on your computer.

Good luck to the chap involved

My mate is cataloguing and recording every unofficial and official meeting with his soon to be divorced wife.

Got him out of several accusations already. When it comes down to he said, she said, it's invaluable.

I'm sure she agrees....does she?

But, I agree: it's invaluable.

It depends though if it's considered legal since in many countries it wouldn't be if the other party doesnt know he/she is recorded.

[a99az]

Can't he ask for his expenses.

[Jim walker]

Before you rent a place in Thailand check-up everything about the condo and talk to people who are living there first, you can usually find out if there is any problem landlord at the condos.

And before signing anything go around the condo with a fine toothcomb and write down every blemish chip and scratch or as someone previous said take a movie or pictures with your mobile.

It just takes a little bit of common sense.

[bubblegum]

Supposedly this has gone on for three years ... right or wrong sometimes it is better to just suck it up and pay then worrying about being right. How much can the furniture have cost compared to lawyer fees and what has been reported he has had to deal with including appeals to the Supreme Court.

And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared? If he thought the matter was cleared up. I'd think he would just head to the airport. I am not experienced in such matters but thought you only need an exit visa if you were a citizen of a nation that has travel restrictions or there were legal issues such as an ongoing case which seems to be the circumstances here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033

So you are saying he should just suck it up and take what the THAI is throwing at him regardless, bow down and kiss the feet of this Thai landlord who apparently is trying to extort money out of him. Let me guess Nisa, you are a Thai woman right?

Regardless if he is Thai or the person pursing the charges is Thai ... most rational people will settle something if it is in their best interest to do so even if it means sucking it up and paying something you don't owe. The other alternative it to suffer greatly for years by not being able to work, not being able to travel and of course spending a hell of a lot more fighting. If what has been reported is true then this surely could have been settled long ago without criminal charges and there have been numerous opportunities to settle since then without any blot on his record while not only cutting his loses but preventing further loses.

But if you would rather make your life miserable because you need to prove some false sense of superiority to Thais (not the OP but you) then I guess you shouldn't complain when your life is miserable. And if you even have further issues if it is a women Thai then I can only hope you find yourself in this position a lot.

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

[Thai at Heart]

OK ... the ACTUAL facts (from someone who knows):

1. 3.5 years ago plaintiff attempted to extort 500,000 THB and threatened with copies of passports and an arrest warrant. 2 plaintiffs - a) retired high ranking police officer & b ) employee of Thai embassy in London

2. Defendants refused to pay and were arrested walking out of the meeting in Starbucks. Spent one night in jail - released on bail following day.

3. 2 charges - a) theft of 5 pieces of furniture (from an UNFURNISHED house) 200,000 THB & b ) criminal damage of 192,000 THB (which they did not commit)

4. Court verdict NOT GUILTY 18th Jan 2010

5. Plaintiffs appealed ONLY ONE charge (criminal damage). First court refused to back the appeal and said that the charges cannot be split. Prosecutor backed the appeal and was therefore accepted by 1st appeal court.

6. Appeal court verdict 4th Dec 2012 - NOT GUILTY

7. Waited 30 days for documents to clear in order to handle immigration and be able to leave. Court confirmed documents cleared 10th Jan 2013

8. 14th Jan 2013 - Documents revoked and immigration block not removed due to request by Plaintiffs to have a 60 day extension to allow appeal to be submitted to Supreme Court (still only the criminal damage charge).

Hope that helps!

Scary stuff!

It means that the plaintiffs are tough people and hard to deal with.

Some lessons can be learned from this most unusual situation.

1: have a form signed by both parties if you rent with detailed description of the situation, including possible furniture and other belongings.

2: make a movie recording (mobile) of the whole house/apartment/studio with/without furniture and belongings and send it to landlord also, showing you have "proof" of the condition on the day you rent. Store this video on your laptop/iPad/PC also in order not to lose it and proof for the future!

3. have an independent real estate agent or office make up a form, describing the situation BEFORE you leave the apartment (possibly 1 or 2 hours before) terminating the contract, and record another video, with DATE and TIME of the present situation and store it immediately on your computer.

Good luck to the chap involved

My mate is cataloguing and recording every unofficial and official meeting with his soon to be divorced wife.

Got him out of several accusations already. When it comes down to he said, she said, it's invaluable.

I'm sure she agrees....does she?

But, I agree: it's invaluable.

It depends though if it's considered legal since in many countries it wouldn't be if the other party doesnt know he/she is recorded.

It has a great effect of keeping everyone calm.

She went for him with a carving knife in front of multiple people, then proceeded to the local cop shop claiming he hit her.

Cue 2am with 10 witnesses down the cop shop providing statements rebutting her accusation. It's not the worst legal system around, but it certainly isn't the best.

Proceeding to court doesn't rely on a weight of proof or likelihood of victory. It can easily be abused just to inconvenience and waste time.

[watcharacters]

kill someone with gun or car and you got free on bail for few thousand baht and disappear...... brake a chair and scratch a table and you are stuck here and they refuse to let you go ..... what kind of justice is that ? it seems there are 2 justices here one for thais and one for farang . how nice is that ?

Does this fellow have the landlord from hell or what?

[a99az]

Can't he ask for his expenses.

[Nisa]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

[Fozfromoz]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

Justice?

[Remix4]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

Have you actually read the facts - they are fighting being thrown in jail!

Also I would like to add at this point since you appear to believe that they are doing this "at the expense of their families" that their families are fully behind them and have been since they were arrested!

Edited January 16, 2013 by Remix4

[Somtamnication]

Drive down to a southern province. Get on a dam_n boat to Langkawi and go bloody home! Sorry, am I missing something here?

[LaoPo]

Drive down to a southern province. Get on a dam_n boat to Langkawi and go bloody home! Sorry, am I missing something here?

Maybe his -long time- relationship with a Thai partner?

[Remix4]

Drive down to a southern province. Get on a dam_n boat to Langkawi and go bloody home! Sorry, am I missing something here?

Maybe his -long time- relationship with a Thai partner?

Partner is Singaporean - also in the same situation - joint defendants

[Nisa]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

Have you actually read the facts - they are fighting being thrown in jail!

Also I would like to add at this point since you appear to believe that they are doing this "at the expense of their families" that their families are fully behind them and have been since they were arrested!

The families have been picking up all their expenses for them and his family says it has been a nightmare. Had he worked a deal with the landlord this would not have proceeded. If the purpose was to extort money from him and as YOU (no verification or links provided) claim it was 500,000 baht then the landlord would have settled for less because he has also been incurring expenses and headaches from this and in 3.5 years it has cost him and his mate and the families more than 500,000 to live here and fight this case. At each juncture and all during this time he could have settled without admitting any guilt and this would have gone away ... it is the landlord pressing charges. He wins and will never be declared innocent and unlike your claims of him being found not-guilty this too has not happened and the case has just been dismissed (we don't know if lack of evidence or procedural errors or what) and if this latest appeal is thrown out then that is how it ends without a verdict and him, his mate, his family going through near 4 years of pain and expenses that greatly exceeded not only 500k but what he could have settled for. Sounds like a winner all right ... I'd be dam_n proud to be telling people the pain and suffering I put my family through for years just so I could get some justice with some landlord in some less developed nation.

Justice?

This is not justice but this is pouring salt in a wound and then getting your family to make self inflicted wounds so you can continue picking at the wounds and being sure they stay infected as long as possible..

Edited January 16, 2013 by Nisa

[Remix4]

And if the Thai FACE matter would not cloud any actions by the landlord this would have been resolved a long time ago. I applaud Chestnutt for fighting back again's all odds. It is about time !

What is he fighting to win which is at the expense of his family who are being pained emotionally and financially for years now due to his fight?

Have you actually read the facts - they are fighting being thrown in jail!

Also I would like to add at this point since you appear to believe that they are doing this "at the expense of their families" that their families are fully behind them and have been since they were arrested!

The families have been picking up all their expenses for them and his family says it has been a nightmare. Had he worked a deal with the landlord this would not have proceeded. If the purpose was to extort money from him and as YOU (no verification or links provided) claim it was 500,000 baht then the landlord would have settled for less because he has also been incurring expenses and headaches from this and in 3.5 years it has cost him and his mate and the families more than 500,000 to live here and fight this case. At each juncture and all during this time he could have settled without admitting any guilt and this would have gone away ... it is the landlord pressing charges. He wins and will never be declared innocent and unlike your claims of him being found not-guilty this too has not happened and the case has just been dismissed (we don't know if lack of evidence or procedural errors or what) and if this latest appeal is thrown out then that is how it ends without a verdict and him, his mate, his family going through near 4 years of pain and expenses that greatly exceeded not only 500k but what he could have settled for. Sounds like a winner all right ... I'd be dam_n proud to be telling people the pain and suffering I put my family through for years just so I could get some justice with some landlord in some less developed nation.

Clearly you know more than I do.

[Nisa]

Clearly you know more than I do.

As do the family and the accused in their own words and as reported by BBC and other news sources.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...hester-20589033 (includes video of family)

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ashire-20607769

http://www.chiangrai...news/12776.html