BURNING ISSUE

Red shirts' amnesty plan is short on details

Avudh Panananda

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The debate over amnesty in connection with the 2010 political mayhem will not make headway unless the red shirts get down to the specifics of what such legal absolution would entail.

Red-shirt leader Thida Thavornseth has designated 2013 as the year to push for amnesty for all protesters involved in political rallies from January 2007 to December 2011.

To kick-start her crusade on Tuesday, Thida unveiled a draft decree to absolve protesters of all political stripes of legal accountability, except for rally organisers and masterminds behind the political violence.

Preceding Thida's move, the Nitirat Group of anti-coup academics demanded that amnesty for all involved in the political violence be enshrined in charter provisions.

The parties concerned have given lukewarm responses to the two amnesty proposals.

Their reactions varied from questioning the legal technicalities associated with granting amnesty to alleging an ulterior motive to rescue fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Wattana Sengpairoh, spokesman for the House speaker, said he was doubtful whether amnesty, if granted as per the two proposals, would conform to the rule of law. Wattana made it clear he did not oppose the idea of granting amnesty; he just wanted it done properly.

His remarks happen to mirror the views of many, including critics and supporters of the red shirts.

If the red shirts are serious in trying to bring about amnesty, they should outline the details of how they would implement the amnesty idea in a practical manner.

At present they are using fancy words, but stop short of spelling out practical steps to translate the idea into reality.

Thida has a lot of explaining to do if she wants to dispel lingering doubts on why red leaders are enjoying the perks while their foot soldiers are trying to survive various stages of prosecution.

For now, these foot soldiers may be pacified by the idea of amnesty. But their wrath would be catastrophic if they found they had been left with an empty promise.

The amnesty proposal advanced by Nitirat is very theoretical and might not warrant attention at this juncture, since it hinges on a rewrite of the Constitution, which has not been activated yet.

In contrast, Thida has been pushing for a draft decree on amnesty via the government.

If the draft had all the necessary specifics, then the government could act on it without delay. It is unfortunate, however, that the draft provisions have triggered confusion.

The confusion appears so deep that all government leaders have opted for silence as a virtue.

If the amnesty debate is to gain momentum, Thida, or her colleagues, should clarify the following issues:

First, the distinction between protesters, organisers and masterminds for each violent incident.

Second, the criteria for classifying criminal violations linked to the political protests.

Third, whether the amnesty should apply to a number of cases not linked to the protests, but which Thida sees as politically motivated. If it should, criteria would be needed to classify such cases.

Fourth, how to prevent the government's usurping of judicial power if amnesty is granted to defendants fighting trials.

Fifth - given that amnesty for convicted protesters who burned down provincial halls would not cover organisers - whether red leaders would be willing to face prosecution as masterminds in such cases.

Sixth - given that the government is targeting two Democrats, Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thuagsuban, for prosecution over the deaths and injuries inflicted by soldiers - whether red-shirt leaders should be held accountable for deaths and injuries inflicted by armed protesters.

-- The Nation 2013-01-18

"except for rally organisers and masterminds behind the political violence."

This seems a little out of character for Thida........wonder if it includes all "Organisers" and so called "Masterminds"?...I have a suspicion that maybe some of these people

might be excused.

"except for rally organisers and masterminds behind the political violence."

This seems a little out of character for Thida........wonder if it includes all "Organisers" and so called "Masterminds"?...I have a suspicion that maybe some of these people

might be excused.

Not sure Mr T will be too happy about this.

Only in Thailand can you burn down the center of the capital,

hold the country hostage .... then get a criminal whitewash

Sixth - given that the government is targeting two Democrats, Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thuagsuban, for prosecution over the deaths and injuries inflicted by soldiers - whether red-shirt leaders should be held accountable for deaths and injuries inflicted by armed protesters.

Show stopper.

Red shirts' amnesty plan is short on details

Details are not the only thing they are short on.

They seem to be seriously lacking in intelligence and rational thought, as well.

Edited January 18, 201313 yr by dcutman

Simple: they want all troublemakers protesters to be excused and they want more money.

They're like 14 and 15 year olds who have a tantrum at a party and wreck every piece of furniture, kill the dog and cat, throw food all over - .......The next day, they tell mom and dad they want to be forgiven. Not even say 'we're sorry,' and certainly not offer to clean up their messes.

as for the massive problem in Bkk in spring 2010: the mastermind and financier of the protest, Mr. T, should be tried for funding and inciting the riots, and he (and other funders) should be held liable for the damage done, including the torching of buildings. Separate cases could be held re; who is responsible for the injuries and deaths.

I'd like to see a report done on how many tens of thousands of hours Thaksin has belabored the court systems in Thailand to expend on his actions. Better yet, send a bill to T, for all those hours. At $15/hour, that could add up to billions of baht.

Short on detail? You mean they actually have details? The problem is, this is only about one person, and trying to use the smoke screen of the underlings being excused as pawns in the game, will not solve anything. There was only one mastermind behind the reds seizure of the city and the subsequent deaths so does that mean he will be held accountable? This is such as a waste of time.

How abouts the coward Thaksin comes back and faces his court cases like a man, then we talk about amnesty for everyone else?

Everything about the red shirts is short on details. They claim to be a "movement" with elected office holders, but fail to come up with a charter, identifiable goals, membership lists, funding details, voting records, etc. The fact that so many "leaders" are facing serious criminal charges, along with the lack of organisational detail, makes them more like an organised crime association than a political party.

Everything about the red shirts is short on details. They claim to be a "movement" with elected office holders, but fail to come up with a charter, identifiable goals, membership lists, funding details, voting records, etc. The fact that so many "leaders" are facing serious criminal charges, along with the lack of organisational detail, makes them more like an organised crime association than a political party.

Methinks you're being too nice by implying they're like an "organized crime association". They're more like a motley group of rowdies. The only organization they appear to possess, is bowing to the puppetmaster channeling funds (and his grandstanding promises; 'everyone who follows me will get rich'). Without T's money, the Red movement would dry up faster than a banana peel on a saharan camel track.

"except for rally organisers and masterminds behind the political violence."

This seems a little out of character for Thida........wonder if it includes all "Organisers" and so called "Masterminds"?...I have a suspicion that maybe some of these people

might be excused.

I strongly feel that she does not see any thing wrong with Thaksin therefore he would not need an amnesty or white wash. He did nothing wrong in the first place.

Be nice too here her tell the nation what her thoughts on him are.

Not in this life time.

How abouts the coward Thaksin comes back and faces his court cases like a man, then we talk about amnesty for everyone else?

So far there is only charges against him for before the coup. Nothing about this boondoggle he financed.

Yes like maidu said the cost to Thailand for the courts time plus the incarceration costs has to be massive and this is only the beginning. All to stroke the ego of a evil little man.

Red shirts' amnesty plan is short on detalis brains.

Red shirts' amnesty plan is short on detalis brains.

Red shirts are short on detalis brains.

They are the Redshirts that dont need no stinkin details

Short on detail? You mean they actually have details? The problem is, this is only about one person, and trying to use the smoke screen of the underlings being excused as pawns in the game, will not solve anything. There was only one mastermind behind the reds seizure of the city and the subsequent deaths so does that mean he will be held accountable? This is such as a waste of time.

Details?

Well in 2010 they (the paymaster and their local leaders) repeated their war cry hundreds of thousand of times:

- 'Fight for democracy and justice'.

- 'Fight for equal and fair application of the law'.

- 'No double standards'.

But never once did they explain (during the riots or since) what any of this means, or what it would look like, and never once have they distributed any structured literature about any of this.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

No no no, "amnesty" by decree is the democratic way.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

It will cost to many lives much.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

No no no, "amnesty" by decree is the democratic way.

The red democratic way.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

Well referendums are a little tricky as the PTP has found with their constitutional rewrite. The proposal might be rejected & that doesn't sit well with top-down 'democracy'. I am surprised that they haven't considered a decree which was one of the hallmarks of Thaksin's rule. On the other hand, Thida may be flying a kite on PTP's behalf.

From three days ago when this change started:

This afternoon, In an apparent change of tactics, instead of an amnesty law, the Red Shirts demanded that an Executive Decree be issued by Prime Minister Yingluck to give amnesty for those with criminal offenses occurring between January 1, 2007 and December 31, 2011.

They have proposed their own draft of the desired Executive Decree and covers those that have been already been sentenced to jail as well as for those with still pending cases.

It was read out today by Red Shirt Shirt Leader Thida, who was accompanied by Pheu Thai Party MP/Deputy Commerce Minister/Red Shirt Leader Natthawut and former Pheu Thai Party MP/Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn, and Pheu Thai Party MP/Red Shirt Leader Korkaew.

Afterwards, Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn said he will attempt to get an appointment with Yingluck to hand deliver their proposed Executive Decree for her to approve and sign off on.

Has Jatuporn delivered the Red Shirt Decree to Yingluck yet?

Her lack of comments on the issue might indicate he's still trying to get an appointment.

.

Why don't we hold a referendum on whether anyone should be granted amnesty for their part in the red and yellow protests.

No no no, "amnesty" by decree is the democratic way.

Coup, riots, election, amnesty, coup.....

What do you expect from short-sighted people? Far-sighted plans?

Democracy is to Red Shirts what tennis is to guppies.

Reds expect amnesty from Yingluck, just like a 5 year old expects to be pardoned by his mom for using crayons to color the living room walls.

Democracy is to Red Shirts what tennis is to guppies.

Reds expect amnesty from Yingluck, just like a 5 year old expects to be pardoned by his mom for using crayons to color the living room walls.

I pardoned my 5 year olds for crayoning the walls.

What did you do ??

Beat them ??

Everything about the red shirts is short on details. They claim to be a "movement" with elected office holders, but fail to come up with a charter, identifiable goals, membership lists, funding details, voting records, etc. The fact that so many "leaders" are facing serious criminal charges, along with the lack of organisational detail, makes them more like an organised crime association than a political party.

Methinks you're being too nice by implying they're like an "organized crime association". They're more like a motley group of rowdies. The only organization they appear to possess, is bowing to the puppetmaster channeling funds (and his grandstanding promises; 'everyone who follows me will get rich'). Without T's money, the Red movement would dry up faster than a banana peel on a saharan camel track.

Superb.

Post of the day.

They are the Redshirts that dont need no stinkin details

Dam I had forgot that.

Democracy is to Red Shirts what tennis is to guppies.

Reds expect amnesty from Yingluck, just like a 5 year old expects to be pardoned by his mom for using crayons to color the living room walls.

I pardoned my 5 year olds for crayoning the walls.

What did you do ??

Beat them ??

As a last resort, when they continue to do it again and again for months. Now they understand that willful misbehaviour has repercussions.