Need Advice On Leasehold Condo Unit

[ilCapitano79]

I've read that most of the leasholds are going to be very hard to renew after intial 30 years of lease. I've been offered an appartment where leasehold comes with a share of the freehold, and the owners control the company which the land sits in and we all lease our apartments from the company. So with this type of a set up is it going to be easy to renew the lease after 30 years or is there something more to it where I can walk into something unpleasent?

Thanks for any help!

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I wonder why would anyone want to get involved in such a complicated arrangement rather than just buy a condo outright in their own name?

[ilCapitano79]

Well that's why I started this thread to find out more info and research more into it with a lawyer who could explain to me better if people in here like yourself who are much more knowledgeble then me would recommend to go ahead with this type of agreement.

There is one more appartment that I'm intrested in that I could buy in a Thai company name, would this be good option then?

[Delight]

Are the sellers asking for the lease money up front -or paid on a monthly/yearly basis?

[ilCapitano79]

Are the sellers asking for the lease money up front -or paid on a monthly/yearly basis?

I would have to pay 4 million for the appartment in my first post where the contract is set up like I wrote in my first post, "leasehold comes with a share of the freehold, and the owners control the company which the land sits in and we all lease our apartments from the company".

[TommoPhysicist]

Tel us again why you aren't just looking for apartments to buy outright?

49% of apartments i each building are available for foreigners to buy.

Edited January 28, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[jamescollister]

OP, run. This is dodgy deals. Stay legal be safe, buy a condo under Thai law and sleep in peace. Jim

[trogers]

...and the owners control the company which the land sits in...

Ever heard of Steve Job and Apple? Who are the guys controlling Apple since 1985?

[ilCapitano79]

Ok guys thanks for the advice, I'm defintily running away from the first type of condo.

What about the other one that I can have in Thai company name? Would that be something to look for? I know there are condos that are ownable in my own name but there aren't any available where I'm at that I like. Any advice for this one which could be set up in a Thai company?

Thanks once again for answering my pretty boring questions.

[Delight]

(Given the earlier post -this post is now irrelevant)

The options are simple:

1) Lease a condo unit for 30 years . You never own it or any part of the condo building. After 30 years it reverts back to the owner. Maintenance fees are a tricky area. The owner of the condo unit -by law -is responsible for the maintenance fees -not the lessee . The lessee has no influence on any of the affairs of the management of the condo building.

2) Buy freehold -either as a foreigner or in a Thai Company. Generally no foreigner wants the latter -hence usually a bit cheaper.

Why would you lease when you can buy. Maybe for reasons of immigration. Maybe you can lease with very basic visa status. These are just maybes - Perhaps you need to state your motive for your interest in leasing .

Edited January 28, 2013 by Delight

[TommoPhysicist]

Ok guys thanks for the advice, I'm defintily running away from the first type of condo.

What about the other one that I can have in Thai company name? Would that be something to look for? I know there are condos that are ownable in my own name but there aren't any available where I'm at that I like. Any advice for this one which could be set up in a Thai company?

Thanks once again for answering my pretty boring questions.

How would you know?

I'm of the opinion that only the land office would know the availability of the foreigner share.

As far as I know this is not under the control of the condo management, but they usually like to pretend it is.

Edited January 28, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[trogers]

Always consider buying a freehold property as an investment, and a time may come in the future when you want to cash out.

Buying it under the name of a Thai company now will probably mean potential future buyers will be limited to Thais, especially if law enforcement against the use of Thai nominees is tightened up.

I would advise you look at more units in the market and get one that is permitted for foreign ownership. This will save you the annual headaches and cost of financial and tax returns.

All ownership transfers of condo units need a clearance certificate from the juristic office of the condo development stating that the unit has no outstanding dues to the juristic and also whether the unit is within the 49% foreign ownership quota.

[jamescollister]

Ok guys thanks for the advice, I'm defintily running away from the first type of condo.

What about the other one that I can have in Thai company name? Would that be something to look for? I know there are condos that are ownable in my own name but there aren't any available where I'm at that I like. Any advice for this one which could be set up in a Thai company?

Thanks once again for answering my pretty boring questions.

That is now a no go, company means The Thais have to put up the money, don't think many wiil put the money up so you can have a condo. Nominee companies are illegal, you face confiscation and being deported, if caught.

If you want a condo just buy it under the law or rent and be safe. Jim

[ilCapitano79]

So buying it under the Thai company is a no go as well? This leaves only two options, buying it under wifes name if I had one, which I dont, and other is finding a condo that can be owned directly by me?

[Stjohnm]

I invest in property the world over & put simply I own nothing in Thailand & won't even entertain the idea of investing. For foreigners it's a rent only market. My wife owns our house upcountry & anything spent on that is done with the full knowledge that we will never sell as its to be passed to our daugter.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[jamescollister]

So buying it under the Thai company is a no go as well? This leaves only two options, buying it under wifes name if I had one, which I dont, and other is finding a condo that can be owned directly by me?

That's it buy a condo that you can legally own, then it yours under the law. A no brainer really. Jim

[BlackPuddingBertha]

What about the other one that I can have in Thai company name?

Personally I think that company name is even less desirable than a 30 year lease in your own name.

Why dont you just buy a unit in farang quota? You can own this outright.

All these other weird ownership structures can be nearly impossible to sell on, which is presumably why people have spotted that you are a novice and are trying to offload them on you.

Better still, rent for a while until you get the feel for it.

Edited January 28, 2013 by BlackPuddingBertha

[ilCapitano79]

Thing is I'm in Samui and there are just not that many condos in my price bracket where they have them for foreginers to buy under foreginers quota.

So I'll just have to wait then to find something I can buy under foreginer quota or wait and see if I ever get maried with a Thai girl and have it under her name.

Thanks guys for your help.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Thing is I'm in Samui and there are just not that many condos in my price bracket where they have them for foreginers to buy under foreginers quota.

I'm not familiar with Samui but normally 49 out of every 100 condos will be available for sale directly to farangs. I find it unlikely that all these condos are in such huge demand that they never come up for sale, and I suspect that it is just a marketing ploy to entice the unwary into buying Thai-name units that can be very hard to sell. Unless perhaps these units are at a big discount to the price of a similar farang-name unit?

[phetphet]

I think that you will find that there aren't many "condos" in Samui. At least not in the true sense. There are apartments, but not condos. There is no 49%-51% rule, as you will probably find that all those places will be bought by foreigners as holiday homes, or to rent out.

That is why you cannot find foreign quota sales.

[Delight]

There are apartments, but not condos.

The difference:

A condo building comprises many individual rooms –each has its own Chanote (title deed) so can be individually sold.

An apartment block comprises many individual rooms-but only one Chanote (for the entire block). The rooms cannot be individually sold. They can be leased or rented out.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

If these Samui units are just apartments that would indeed explain why they are trying to sell leases in such a convoluted fashion.

I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole. If I was the OP and was really keen to own Thai property but couldnt find proper condo units on Samui then I would probably buy a farang name condo elsewhere, rent it out and use the proceeds to cover my own rent on Samui.

[davejones]

If these Samui units are just apartments that would indeed explain why they are trying to sell leases in such a convoluted fashion.

I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole. If I was the OP and was really keen to own Thai property but couldnt find proper condo units on Samui then I would probably buy a farang name condo elsewhere, rent it out and use the proceeds to cover my own rent on Samui.

So you mean set up a convoluted scheme so that you can avoid a different convoluted scheme. LOL. There is a major flaw though - buy a condo and you may not be able to rent it out, and will therefore have no money to cover your rent in Samui. I say, keep things simple. Look harder for a foreign-owned condo - Put up flyers in condo buildings you like, as at all condo building if there are any foreign-owned condos for sale, advertise in local press, internet. Put in the effort and I'm sure you'll find plenty of foreign-owned condos for sale. Go though an agency, and they might be more interested in selling Thai-quota condos.

Edited January 29, 2013 by davejones

[BlackPuddingBertha]

So you mean set up a convoluted scheme so that you can avoid a different convoluted scheme. LOL. There is a major flaw though - buy a condo and you may not be able to rent it out, and will therefore have no money to cover your rent in Samui.

My scheme is actually quite simple, and many people I know who live here do it with property they own in Europe. And I know a few who do it with Thai property also (they own a unit that they rent out in Bangkok, and they rent and live in Pattaya). And I know one who owns in Pattaya and lives in Chiang Mai in rented accommodation.

If you buy the right property you will never have much trouble renting it out as long as the price is fair. And if things really dont work out you can either stop renting and move into your farang-name condo yourself, or just sell it.

[ilCapitano79]

Thanks for all advice in this thread, I've definitly decided that I'll only buy a condo as a freehold in my name and nothing else. I'll just have to wait little bit longer to find the right property but thats not a problem.