webfact Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Gridlocked: The sad history and frightening future of Bangkok traffic By Shane Danaher and Praj Kiatpongsan In this two part feature series, we investigate Bangkok’s critical traffic problem. PART ONE – Thirty-six-year-old Thanisa Chimpleewat arrived in Bangkok only six months ago, but even in that slight interim she has come to grasp one of the city’s fundamental realities: Traffic is bad, and it’s getting worse. “To travel in Bangkok is no way near pleasant,” she says. “Not only is there the congestion on the road, but taking the BTS can get very uncomfortable as it is always overcrowded.” newsjs When asked why she thinks traffic has reached this sorry state, Thanisa mentions the city’s proliferation of malls and high-rise condominiums, but also places blame on the most visible of Bangkok’s recent transit policies – the “first-car” rebate scheme. Thanks to “first-car,” Thailand has seen an 81% year-on-year increase in automobile purchases, meaning that at this point there are more cars in Bangkok (7.3 million) than there are people in Singapore. “Even though I’ve lived here for such a short period of time,” says Thanisa, “I can easily tell that so many cars have been added to the road. It has probably increased up to 50%.” The “first-car” rebate has become a lightning rod for Bangkokian traffic rage in recent months. Its spectacular arrival to Bangkok’s traffic-hatred scene has even allowed it to eclipse some of the other issues plaguing debates about the city’s infrastructure. However, look beyond “first-car” and you’ll find a list of explanations for Bangkok’s traffic nightmare as tortuous and convoluted as the traffic itself. Thirty-one-year-old motorcycle cab driver Surachai Thankam insists that, “the problem is mainly caused by the traffic police’s inability to control the traffic lights.” Maj. Suwatchai Khaola-ead, a 49-year-old soldier, points to the city’s inefficient bus system as the cause. Most recent Bangkok governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra is running for a second term on a transportation platform that offers commuters succor in the form of mobile phone apps and a facelift for Victory Monument. In a debate on which everyone can concede the principle point (that Bangkok’s transportation mix is an utter disaster) why is it so hard to figure out where blame should be apportioned? And, more importantly, what can be done about it? A tortured history Any investigation of Bangkok’s current traffic mess has to begin with a look at the city’s transportation history, from which one can divine the roots of commuters’ current frustrations. It isn’t too far of a stretch to say that ever since there have been cars in Bangkok, there have been traffic problems to go along with them. The first cars arrived in the city in 1902, at which point Thailand (then Siam) was engaged in a political dance with European powers, trying to invite technology and trade while shunning attempts at political dominance. Though Bangkok had for centuries relied on canals as its main form of transportation, European traders found this means of transport inefficient, especially when a device as lovely as the motorcar had recently presented itself for widespread consumption. [more...] Full story: http://www.coconutsb...angkok-traffic/ -- COCONUTS Bangkok 2013-01-31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mudcrab Posted January 31, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2013 get the cops away from the traffic light control overrides and let the computers do the job they were bought for. And install an eight inch concrete filled pipe every fifty metres on the emergency stopping lane on the motorways and a lot of the problems will be solved. When a road is designed for three lanes and four are used there is an inevitable problem when the road ends at an intersection etc. leave the emergency lane useable for emergencies but unusable as a fourth lane. Not that hard to do. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davejones Posted January 31, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's obvious to everyone what the solutions are, but no-one will actually implement them. So there's not much point discussing it. The problem is that there isn't anyone around who cares enough to do anything about it. If there was, it would be very easy to fix. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post brucegoniners Posted January 31, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2013 First of all, they need to get rid of 50% of the taxis on the roads and all of the tuk tuks. If you sit on Sukhumvit Road you see empty taxi after empty taxi going by. It's ridiculous. There are way too many. To pare it down, check criminal records first. That will get rid of a lot of the drivers. And if they are reported for doing things like not taking passengers where they want to go a few times, then take away their license. And don't issue any new taxi driver licenses. Let these guys go back to the rice fields in the Northeast. The busses are ridiculous. Modernize them. The pollution is horrible. And they break down often. The other thing that needs to be done is to require people to pay a toll for entering inner Bangkok. They do it in London and Singapore and it is very effective in controlling traffic and pollution downtown. The other thing that needs to be done is to get the stupid traffic cops out of those boxes. They jam up traffic for whatever company wants to bribe them. Automate it and do it by computer. For example, the guys at Sukhumvit 24 keeps Sukhumvit closed for extended periods of time to let the traffic clear. They are paid off by Emporium. It's well known. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluek Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 My personal solution is to avoid going out from 07:30 to 09:30 and 17:30 to, well, at least 21:00. It's usually not so bad outside of those times. And also on the bright side, they did just add a fourth train car to the BTS trains, which has made a huge difference. The sky trains here are nowhere near as packed as Kuala Lumpur's get (though the roads there are much better). And in terms of road traffic we're still nowhere near as bad as Delhi or Jakarta! Just sayin'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprq Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's really a great deal simpler than this article states, and the history is irrelevant to solving the problem today. Basically, there are far too many parking spaces in businesses and workplaces in the inner city, and far too few public transport means throughout the city. If drivers knew they could not park in the inner city, as London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, etc etc drivers know, because city authorities have ensured that building owners and managers cannot provide large numbers of parking spaces, then they would not use their cars to go to work, to go on business, or to go on free time errands in the inner city. Instead they would use the multiple public transport means, especially buses using bus lanes and a comprehensive subway system, to travel around the city. That's the way Bangkok should go. The solution is fundamentally simple to state -- but in the Thai political and cultural context almost impossible to implement. So Bangkok will always be a transportation disaster. Misery, misery, misery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorproc156 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 They need to modernize the entire transit system and have one authority manage all of the trains, buses, boats etc. A single ticket with unlimited transfers for 3 hours between any mode of transit for 20 (as promised) would then make it economically unreasonable for people to commute by private transport. A single card such as the Orca card in Seattle, Oyster card in London etc should be used. Improve the transit routing on Google maps, although it is good, there are some routes that need some adjustments. A lot of residents living in Bangkok have smartphones anyway so this is the next natural step. Instead of a congestion charge, they should cut all fuel subsidies (increase tax on Natural gas) for the Bangkok metro area to help reduce congestion as well as pollution and increase air quality. The increase in revenue could help further develop infrastructure in Bangkok.This of course can only be done once there is a functional and developed public transport system otherwise it could lead to inflation in the Bangkok metro area. Start issuing taxi licenses based on the region/city and allow them to operate only within the limits. Strictly control and stop issuing taxi licenses in Bangkok, there is already FAR too many. Supply far outstrips demand. Revoke taxi licenses if a driver doesn't follow the law (probably impossible to implement in the current state of Thailand). Stop duplicating bus routes, there are a lot of bus routes which parallel the train lines (such as the no. 2 bus). Move bus interchanges out of busy intersections, such as Victory monument. Increase bus coverage and night bus coverage to suburbs as a lot of suburban areas have pathetic access by public transport and taxis are really the only option. (Sanphawut road, lasalle road, kin kaew, Bang chalong, Bang bo etc with 0 bus access but have high resident densities). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidLucifer Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Create urban clearways and strictly enforce the no stopping rule; you constantly see three lanes reduced to two, or two reduced to one because some plonker has decided to stop. Stop lane splitting and people using the hard shoulder as an extra lane to beat the queues; traffic then needs to merge again later, nobody lets anyone else in and it creates more confusion and queues. Shorter intevals at the traffic lights; I can't help feeling the policemen with their finger on the button create half the problem; they let traffic build and build; create a traffic jam one way, then release it, create it, release it.....the cycle goes on. These wouldn't solve the problems, but would certainly go a long way to easing it and ensuring things flow more smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It's really a great deal simpler than this article states, and the history is irrelevant to solving the problem today. Basically, there are far too many parking spaces in businesses and workplaces in the inner city, and far too few public transport means throughout the city. If drivers knew they could not park in the inner city, as London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, etc etc drivers know, because city authorities have ensured that building owners and managers cannot provide large numbers of parking spaces, then they would not use their cars to go to work, to go on business, or to go on free time errands in the inner city. Instead they would use the multiple public transport means, especially buses using bus lanes and a comprehensive subway system, to travel around the city. That's the way Bangkok should go. The solution is fundamentally simple to state -- but in the Thai political and cultural context almost impossible to implement. So Bangkok will always be a transportation disaster. Misery, misery, misery. Good points, but I think the Sky Train could count as a subway system, except above ground. But adding capacity to this would surely help. During the oil embargo of the 1970's, some larger USA Cities tried reducing there dependance on fuel by implimenting and odd even days for driving the family car to work. On one day only even numbered license plate drivers could drive and on the next day it was only odd numbered ones, which went on for 6 days. Everyone could drive on Sunday. Public Transportation and Taxi's could drive every day. If caught out of date you were fined. Remember the term "Car Pooling"? Not only was this a success in reducing the amount of fuel consumed, but also polution and especially the amount of traffic in the city. So I think something like this could work in Bangkok if the larger organizations in the city helped set up a car Pool Program with co-workers and the government pushing for this and doing mass advertising, Public Transportation capacity, especially the Sky Train, was increased, and these laws were enforced. There is a workable solution to this problem. It is just that the people may not be willing to make the sacrifice required to make this happen. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHamon Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 triple the price of fuel and watch the number of cars plumit. poeple will find other means to get around and increase outcry for better public transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Thirty-one-year-old motorcycle cab driver Surachai Thankam insists that, “the problem is mainly caused by the traffic police’s inability to control the traffic lights.” Perhaps not letting the Police manually control the lights or traffic might help . . . traffic light automation is done for a reason and if it's done properly results in increased traffic flow throughout. But then there would be no justification for the number of Police and . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptHaddock Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Or "None of the above." The traffic problem in Bangkok is caused by the shortage of road area. In other major cities the roads compose 22% to 28% of the surface area of the city. In Bangkok it is about 13%. No amount of fiddling with the timing of traffic lights or stepped up enforcement can compensate for the lack of roadway. The provice of Bangkok should discourage use of automobiles and should develop out a full infrastructure of public transportation including bus lanes, restricted lanes for bicycles, more taxi use more evenly distributed, etc. The tax reduction for first car purchase is exactly the wrong policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre324 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 First of all, they need to get rid of 50% of the taxis on the roads and all of the tuk tuks. If you sit on Sukhumvit Road you see empty taxi after empty taxi going by. It's ridiculous. There are way too many. To pare it down, check criminal records first. That will get rid of a lot of the drivers. And if they are reported for doing things like not taking passengers where they want to go a few times, then take away their license. And don't issue any new taxi driver licenses. Let these guys go back to the rice fields in the Northeast. The busses are ridiculous. Modernize them. The pollution is horrible. And they break down often. The other thing that needs to be done is to require people to pay a toll for entering inner Bangkok. They do it in London and Singapore and it is very effective in controlling traffic and pollution downtown. The other thing that needs to be done is to get the stupid traffic cops out of those boxes. They jam up traffic for whatever company wants to bribe them. Automate it and do it by computer. For example, the guys at Sukhumvit 24 keeps Sukhumvit closed for extended periods of time to let the traffic clear. They are paid off by Emporium. It's well known. In all the years I have lived in Thailand and traveled to sukhumvit soi four, I have NEVER once in fourteen years seen the police come out of their air conditioned box on the corner either in the mormning or evening! they are paler then I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcnbkk Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 First of all, they need to get rid of 50% of the taxis on the roads and all of the tuk tuks. If you sit on Sukhumvit Road you see empty taxi after empty taxi going by. It's ridiculous. There are way too many. To pare it down, check criminal records first. That will get rid of a lot of the drivers. And if they are reported for doing things like not taking passengers where they want to go a few times, then take away their license. And don't issue any new taxi driver licenses. Let these guys go back to the rice fields in the Northeast. The busses are ridiculous. Modernize them. The pollution is horrible. And they break down often. The other thing that needs to be done is to require people to pay a toll for entering inner Bangkok. They do it in London and Singapore and it is very effective in controlling traffic and pollution downtown. The other thing that needs to be done is to get the stupid traffic cops out of those boxes. They jam up traffic for whatever company wants to bribe them. Automate it and do it by computer. For example, the guys at Sukhumvit 24 keeps Sukhumvit closed for extended periods of time to let the traffic clear. They are paid off by Emporium. It's well known. Take away taxis? I use them so I don't have to have a car in Bangkok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcnbkk Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 My and a friends girlfriend can seem to figure out who to pay to get a license here in Bangkok, so two less "qualified" drivers are on the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 just build a new capital far far away from bangkok that 1) is sinking 2) prone to flooding each year 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I had a taxi driver in Bangkok who agreed it is turning into an even worse nightmare and that its gridlocked more often than not. He directly blames the new car rebate policy and the huge number of new cars on the road. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 All of the points aforementioned are very good suggestions for improving the situation. You have to wonder why it seems impossible for anyone to get to grips with the situation. There are obvious areas to blame - turf, (as in fiefdom), lack of law enforcement and corruption. But maybe that's how to resolve all of Thailand's problems. As the writer of the article notes, the development of large condominiums/properties on sois is causing huge problems. These were never created to take large volumes of traffic and its a problem that worsens as development grows. Clearly there is no planning law, or at least not one that is enforced. What happened to the case brought by a hiso living in soi Ruam Rudee against the developers of Aetas? This issue, (large developments without adequate access roads) has been repeated up and down the sois of Bangkok. Soi 1 on Sathorn is in permanent gridlock because of all the new condo developments along that, and in the Yennakart area....ad infinitum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweiloman Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 My personal solution is to avoid going out from 07:30 to 09:30 and 17:30 to, well, at least 21:00. It's usually not so bad outside of those times. And also on the bright side, they did just add a fourth train car to the BTS trains, which has made a huge difference. The sky trains here are nowhere near as packed as Kuala Lumpur's get (though the roads there are much better). And in terms of road traffic we're still nowhere near as bad as Delhi or Jakarta! Just sayin'. +1 My personal solution (if the traffic irks me enough) is to go live in London, Paris, Rome etc. The M25 is a joy to drive, multiple lanes devoid of traffic. I love driving into London, pay my 5 (?) quid to the congestion charge and hardly need to get out of 3rd gear. Now forgetting the lovely smooth cobblestoned Champs Elysees and especially going round and round Arc de Triomphe. What joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp2002 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 You mean.....being first in line at a trafic light and waiting there 15-20 minutes for the light to change is NOT the norm?? I DID NOT know that!! If they would syncronize the lights properly and get the cops to leave them alone, traffic would move more smoothly. As soon as you let the cops touch anything, there will be problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp2002 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 With this new car rebate policy........does the new owner have to possess a "REAL" licence to drive? DOUBT IT!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familyonthemove Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Well if the new Bangkok Governor is going to be a Policeman - can we can solve all the problems by offering him 200 THB to fix them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorproc156 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) All of the points aforementioned are very good suggestions for improving the situation. You have to wonder why it seems impossible for anyone to get to grips with the situation. There are obvious areas to blame - turf, (as in fiefdom), lack of law enforcement and corruption. But maybe that's how to resolve all of Thailand's problems. As the writer of the article notes, the development of large condominiums/properties on sois is causing huge problems. These were never created to take large volumes of traffic and its a problem that worsens as development grows. Clearly there is no planning law, or at least not one that is enforced. What happened to the case brought by a hiso living in soi Ruam Rudee against the developers of Aetas? This issue, (large developments without adequate access roads) has been repeated up and down the sois of Bangkok. Soi 1 on Sathorn is in permanent gridlock because of all the new condo developments along that, and in the Yennakart area....ad infinitum. I agree a large part of the problem has to do with the haphazard development and roads are far too small to accommodate the density. Blocks should have been used in the cities planning like in North America rather than these long avenues that the entire city surrounds. Edited February 1, 2013 by anantha92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) Teach Thais that the Face gained by owning a car they don't need and can barely afford = stupid. I suppose most are not in a great rush to get home anyway as the car is likely parked outside a 2000b p/m shack. Compare that to blocking up the roads sitting alone in your car and the feeling of face and importance. No contest really. Edited February 1, 2013 by cbrer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisswe Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 O yes, Bangkok is the 2:end worst traffic town behind Delhi in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unwisemonkey Posted February 1, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2013 The easiest solution is to take civil engineering off the list of restricted jobs for foreigners and preferentially award government contracts for road and highway building and improvement to firms run by American, German, and other prime driving nationalities. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 This issue, (large developments without adequate access roads) has been repeated up and down the sois of Bangkok. Soi 1 on Sathorn is in permanent gridlock because of all the new condo developments along that, and in the Yennakart area....ad infinitum. I agree with this, though in the case of Sathorn Soi 1, luckily it is now resulting in resurfacing, widening in places, and general renovation of the soi as a result, which was badly needed. Another problem is that sois like that one are used as shortcuts to other places, as traffic always seeks ways to get around the clogged arteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk_mike Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) You can't have a charge for entering the city centre in a car until you have a viable alternative. The 2 Skytrain lines and the one underground line at the moment are NOT a viable alternative for most people. The thing that's needed first is more skytrain and subway lines. Once that's done - then you can look at a congestion charge, but you may well find that, so long as the cost of travel on the subway is less than the cost of parking at your destination, that most of the traffic will go away. (They could also do the other thing London has introduced - which is, diesel vehicles with engines that aren't Euro-IV (or V?) are effectively banned from within the M25. (There's an extension to the deadline for some black cabs admittedly). Apparently it's already having a beneficial effect on Asthma sufferers, despite it basically only covering diesel vehicles over 10 years old. (Although that could just be propaganda, as there would have been a beneficial effect over time from the switch to cleaner diesel engines anyway.) Edited February 1, 2013 by bkk_mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24014874 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Perhaps, all these new car owners hoping to get tax refund on a yearly basis over a 5 year period need to do some mathematical calculation. How much gasoline / fuel is used whilst waiting in all these grid locked situations. I would guarantee it is greater than the tax refund, so in the end the car owner is losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrer Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I would guarantee it is greater than the tax refund, so in the end the car owner is losing. No, they win. They get face from having a car. I know a middle-aged Thai teacher who lives in a section of the school with another teacher, they both work there 6 days a week, earn less than12k p/m, they both have cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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