Rent House - Law

[anselpixel]

Cut your losses and move.

No point in arguing with anyone anywhere about a house they own.

You'll lose every time.

[Jonrek2012]

It doesn't matter who the new owner is or if the house was even sold. You signed a contract that clearly states month to month terms. You did not sign a yearly lease given the terminology of this lease. Read carefully next time. For now, move on and enjoy life.

Sorry, scratch that post. You are the leasee. The terminology that you posted is actually a protective clause for you....the rentor! My bad!

Im not a leasor...im a renter..

and i signed it for one year not for month by month.

Normally it should end Nov.2013 from Nov 2012.

[Beetlejuice]

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[hml367]

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

Where is this law? Could you post it?

MSPain

[bobl]

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

Circumstances change all the time. Personally if I was renting my property to someone I would have a clause in there allowing either party to cancel the contract with notice. Possibly with this landlord, that's exactly what he has in his contract - I'd be surprised if he didn't.

To the tenant, what if YOUR circumstances changed and you needed to move out? I'm sure you'd be equally upset if you had to pay the entire balance of the rent you would've paid (which as a landlord I'd be legally entitled to, under the terms of the contract you're expecting). In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it. The 1 month "get out" clause is there to protect you as much as to protect the landlord. I sympathise with your plight of having to uproot and start over in a new house - I hate moving house too - but I don't see that the landlord as being unreasonable (assuming he has an early termination clause, it's not his fault you didn't see it).

Of course things are different if your contract doesn't contain an early termination clause - in which case the landlord's being a bit of a dick. I'd fight it under those circumstances.

Basically, depends 100% on whether the contract you signed contains a termination clause.

[CMSteve]

As with anything in Thailand, there is the law and then there is enforcement. The real issue here is being able to get as much as you can when moving. Keep things on good terms and do your best to get 100% deposit and maybe a small refund on the work that you've done. you can try to stand your ground and fight, but there is always another way for the owners. They can always find a reason that you are breaking the terms of the lease and remove you from the property. If that happens, you lose everything. There is no return of deposit.

From reading you other posts it seems that you have family with children. get out and find something/somewhere stable for them first, then if you want to go back after the previous/current owners file a complaint. be prepared to spend the next year or two making monthly court visits and paying a lawyer's fees for that period as well.

Good Luck!

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

[scorecard]

1. Don't listen to aimchair lawyers.

2. Is there really a new owner? try to find out and talk to the new owner whether/she wants a tenant, and discuss who pays the refund of the rental deposit.

3. Is not, then as mentioned already talk to the old owner about return of your deposit. If he agrees and sounds genuine then move on.

4. If not, stay put for the time period covered by the deposit monies.

5. But if there's any sign of harrassment then quickly move on, especially if you have a wife and children, don't put them at risk.

6. I don't agree with just sit tight regardless and insist you have the right to stay for the full 12 months - stubbornesss. (And the various comments on this thread are mostly giving responses based on guesses, because they haven't seen the rental agreement and were not present at any discussions.)

7. Unless you can come to an amicable agreement with all concerned to stay then move on and quickly re-establish yourself and get on with being happy.

If you have a Thai wife (your business of course) then she would probably prefer to avoid any confrontation and just move on quickly - keep her happy!

8. I don't agree this is specifically a Thai situation. Landlords and tenants can be very tricky and ruthless all over the world / all countries.

There's thousands of houses for rent in CM. Learn something for the future in terms of what to insist is included in any future rental contract. In the rental discussions ask some questons 'Is the house for sale, now?' etc. If the answer is yes make sure it's mentioned in the agreemnent and ask for specific answers about who is responsible for the return of the deposit, make sure all discussion that is relevant is included in the rental agreement. Takes 5 minutes to add another clause.

I'm aware of a case where the prospective tenant wanted a more detailed rental agreement, the owner insisted that in Thailand the rental agrement document is a standard document and it's illegal to change it. The agent involved wasn't aware of the comment (illegal to change it) by the owner. The prospective tenant asked the agent (owner not present) if it can be changed. Answer, Yes of course.

Outcome, owner took the property out of the hands of the agent and let it sit empty for months and months - stubborness. Prospective tenant started search for house again and quickly found something better, and without hassle got more details added to the agreement.

Side point: Many Thais are aware that you can buy, for a few Baht, a simple rental agreement, and a simple house sale and purchase agreement document at many bigger stationery shops. But it can be adjusted.

Edited February 10, 2013 by scorecard

[scorecard]

Who really beleives there is a new owner? Anyone seen a contract that sold the property? Has a new owner actually made an appearance? I doubt it has been sold or if any money has changed hands. Who buys a house sight unseen and the OP or his family did they ever see anyone showing the house or even looking from the sidelines?

no i didnt seen nothing from the new owner like a contract that it is sold or something. and i also didnt meet the new OWNER.

Thats why... it is so weird.

Questions:

- Is the old owner going to automatically give the tenant a copy of the sale agreement?

- Would the older and new owners probably prefer that the agreed sale price be confidential?

- Is it possible the new owner (if there is one) inspected the house before you took occupancy as a tenant?

- Is it possible the new owner took a very long time to decide and the old owner decided to move ahead with rental?

- Is it possible the new owner needed a very long time to arrange finance to buy?

I'm not suggesting the old owner is correct, I don't know.

Most of the comments on this thread are based on negative assumptions with very few / zero real facts.

[StefanBBK]

Perhaps the "old owner" has just a nee tennant who either pays much more or someone in his family needs the place.

Anyway, you are obviously no longer wanted. Take your deposit and move on.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[scorecard]

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

Where is this law? Could you post it?

MSPain

No response!

[Beetlejuice]

Jonrek2012, STAY PUT, trust me I know the law.

If you have a one year rental contract and you have not contravened any of the clauses, or even if you have broken any terms of the lease, or stopped paying the rent, then the landlord or whoever now owns the property, must apply for a court order to have you evicted.

Until your one year lease or rental agreement expires, you are a sitting tenant and whoever takes over the property, also takes over the sitting tenant and any problems associated with it. THIS IS THE LAW, even in Thailand.

If the owner attempts to evict you by using harassment or by force or by removing any of your property while you are out, than he/she/they are committing a criminal act and you can file criminal charges against them.

If you have paid any deposits that are due to be returned at the end of your rental agreement, make inquires with the new owner about 3 months before this expires that he fully intends to honour the agreement and refund your money. If you do not receive a satisfactory response, than withhold the rent until you leave.

Where is this law? Could you post it?

MSPain

No response!

I am sure the OP is capable of doing his own searches, as there is an abundance of information online, or he could seek the advice of a lawyer if he does not wish to move.

As for my advice, it`s up to the OP to seek a second opinion, either online or elsewhere. Or if you would like to search for tenancy advice on behalf of the OP, which contradicts what I have stated, than please go ahead and publish on this thread.

[tango]

KCOR - butt out, just what is your problem?

The OP has serious problems here, not to mention his family, and you are being a complete pain.

Kan't be constructive,then take a HIKE.

[Lindamisa]

....... No appearance of the owner?

That's really weird and confusing.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Lindamisa

[Jonrek2012]

I am just confused and wondering that The owner is living in England, he is not living here Thailand that's what the property agency said. How can they sell the house,then?

Normally if you sell a house you should go personally to the land registry office or something like that to change the name of the owner you sell a land or property.

And first of all, if you would like to sell the house,why theres no visitation from the new owner?

And if they already inspected the house before I rented the house. Then better in the beginning to tell us, that it is not available anymore.no?

And I talk with the tourist police about the house and saw my contract. They said we should stay. If they make harmful thing to us. We have to call quick to them or the police.

Btw what OP means?

[Thailand Bound]

OP means you the Original Poster or Original Post

[iluvbeaches]

I am just confused and wondering that The owner is living in England, he is not living here Thailand that's what the property agency said. How can they sell the house,then?

Normally if you sell a house you should go personally to the land registry office or something like that to change the name of the owner you sell a land or property.

And first of all, if you would like to sell the house,why theres no visitation from the new owner?

And if they already inspected the house before I rented the house. Then better in the beginning to tell us, that it is not available anymore.no?

And I talk with the tourist police about the house and saw my contract. They said we should stay. If they make harmful thing to us. We have to call quick to them or the police.

Btw what OP means?

Well he could easily sell the house by power of attorney, in other words an attorney or other person who has the legal power to act on his behalf in his absence.

The problem is that once the transfer is done you have a contract with a non owner of the house. You could sue him for breach and the new owner could sue him if he didn't know there was a tenant but you don't have a contract with the current owner. So he could eject you with the police from the property as he is the owner and you are squatting at that point.

Maybe the new owner wouldn't mind a tenant and that's why he bought the property. Can you get in touch with the new buyer? You could renegotiate a new contract with him and save yourself a lot of problems if you really don't want to move.

[Thailand Bound]

I still bet the new buyer has not even transferred the cash, would you buy a house with a renter living there without meeting the person first? I bet the new buyer said he would talk once the renter has left.

[Beetlejuice]

I am just confused and wondering that The owner is living in England, he is not living here Thailand that's what the property agency said. How can they sell the house,then?

Normally if you sell a house you should go personally to the land registry office or something like that to change the name of the owner you sell a land or property.

And first of all, if you would like to sell the house,why theres no visitation from the new owner?

And if they already inspected the house before I rented the house. Then better in the beginning to tell us, that it is not available anymore.no?

And I talk with the tourist police about the house and saw my contract. They said we should stay. If they make harmful thing to us. We have to call quick to them or the police.

Btw what OP means?

Jonrek2012

Everything is in your favour here.

If the owner lives in England and is a farang, than he has no jurisdiction or power over the property whatsoever and you could bring to the authorities attention that he is running a property rental business illegally in Thailand. If he uses his Thai wife or another third party as a front person in order to try and evict you and she/he/they too is living in England, than it will be an extremely difficult task in starting the legal process to have you removed from the property. Also taking into consideration even if the third party is living in Thailand, that the Thai legal process involved can take up to 2 years and by that time your rental agreement would have expired anyway.

These people work by trying to install fear and by bluff. You have already had assurances from the police that if these jerks try to harass you, than only need to give them a call, which I had mentioned in my previous post, plus I would guess that regarding the effort and expense involved in trying to have you evicted prior to your rental agreement expiry date, that they will concede and wait until you are good and ready to leave.

Let your occupation of the said property be their problem and not your concern, wait until they make themselves known to you and no need for you to try and trace them. I have already given you advice on how to handle the situation, but if you still feel uncomfortable, and uncertain about remaining in the home, than considering that you are only renting, all you need to do if find another accommodation, leave the key, shut the door and walk away. What you decide to do now has to be up to your own discretion.

One more thing: When you pay your rent or any other expenses regarding the property, obtain receipts for everything, also keep all correspondences between you, the agent and the owners.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[Dante99]

Is it a lease or a month to month tenancy?

Does it have a cancellation clause and if so what does it say?

Is there a new owner or is that just talk?

Did the old owner give a written notice to vacate or any written statement or is it all just talk?

How about some facts to base a reasonable discussion on instead of just a lot of speculation?

It does not matter one bit where the owner lives, if the new owner has visited the property ever, if the new owner had it inspected or ever even saw it, or what some tourist police officer said about the tenancy agreement unless perhaps he is a qualified lawyer which is unlikely.

[Jonrek2012]

Is it a lease or a month to month tenancy?

Does it have a cancellation clause and if so what does it say?

Is there a new owner or is that just talk?

Did the old owner give a written notice to vacate or any written statement or is it all just talk?

How about some facts to base a reasonable discussion on instead of just a lot of speculation?

It does not matter one bit where the owner lives, if the new owner has visited the property ever, if the new owner had it inspected or ever even saw it, or what some tourist police officer said about the tenancy agreement unless perhaps he is a qualified lawyer which is unlikely.

It is a one year contract.

As I have said before there is no new owner who come or visit the house. We are everyday here in the house and we just go out in the weekend.

There is no clause for cancellation or terminate the contract. I already discuss it with a lawyer.

[Jonrek2012]

I am just confused and wondering that The owner is living in England, he is not living here Thailand that's what the property agency said. How can they sell the house,then?

Normally if you sell a house you should go personally to the land registry office or something like that to change the name of the owner you sell a land or property.

And first of all, if you would like to sell the house,why theres no visitation from the new owner?

And if they already inspected the house before I rented the house. Then better in the beginning to tell us, that it is not available anymore.no?

And I talk with the tourist police about the house and saw my contract. They said we should stay. If they make harmful thing to us. We have to call quick to them or the police.

Btw what OP means?

Well he could easily sell the house by power of attorney, in other words an attorney or other person who has the legal power to act on his behalf in his absence.

The problem is that once the transfer is done you have a contract with a non owner of the house. You could sue him for breach and the new owner could sue him if he didn't know there was a tenant but you don't have a contract with the current owner. So he could eject you with the police from the property as he is the owner and you are squatting at that point.

Maybe the new owner wouldn't mind a tenant and that's why he bought the property. Can you get in touch with the new buyer? You could renegotiate a new contract with him and save yourself a lot of problems if you really don't want to move.

That's the point. If the owner really knows if there's a renter or not. We cannot even contact the owner even the new owner...

That's really makes me crazy cannot make contact with them ,nothing!.

Even the properties cannot tell us who the new owner. So that we can make discussion about the contract.

And that's really weird.

[Jonrek2012]

The owner agreed to continue our contract. But they want to make construction in the house. They want to change some things like kitchen and parking lot.

Why now they want to make instructions. Why not after we finish the contract.