Cross-Border Killings Of Cambodian Illegal Loggers Tripled In 2012: Thailand

[webfact]

Cross-border killings of Cambodian illegal loggers tripled in 2012
The Nation

PHNOM PENH - The Cambodian government called Tuesday for Thai authorities to use the courts and not guns against its citizens caught illegally logging luxury woods.

A sharp rise in deaths was of great concern, spokesman Phay Siphan said after the government released figures showing 45 Cambodian loggers were shot and killed inside Thailand last year, three times the number killed in 2011 and five times the number shot dead in 2010.

Another two Cambodians have reportedly been killed so far this year.

The government statistics also showed authorities in Thailand last year arrested 264 Cambodians for illegal logging offences.

The Cambodian government "does not support criminals, but we do support a civilized judgement against human beings in accordance with the law," Phay Siphan said.

He said a solution required efforts from both sides, including reducing demand for timber such as rosewood.


-- The Nation 2013-02-26

[Buchholz]

Another medal to pin on Yingluck's already highly decorated uniform of ribbons.

Another gold star for Yingluck's human rights record.

/

[Thai at Heart]

Isn't it often the case that they do shoot back?

[sandman00927]

I am not one to go shooting for no reason BUT, if these are indeed pirate loggers then a court won't stop them. Theft is theft, and being a forest owning land owner in California, if someone is cutting my trees, they better be quicker than Mr. Winchester. Rogue loggers can destroy some ecosystems on a scale of how much they cut and steal, they sure won't be replanting any trees now would they? Legal logging has it's definite negatives, and the greed from some companies is on par with the pirate loggers. Morale here is don't steal! Privately or corporately. If you do it corporately you might have to go quail hunting with Dick Cheny.

[FireMedic]

Here's an idea....keep the pirates on your side and we won't shoot them. Have them destroy what's left of your country and you deal with it.

[jackspratt]

It seems that on some news threads, the TV Hang 'em High brigade is overtaken by the Shoot 'em On Sight mob.

[rubl]

Could it be that not the attitude of the Thai government has changed, but the number of Cambodian loggers has increased over the last few years?

[Buchholz]

Could it be that not the attitude of the Thai government has changed, but the number of Cambodian loggers has increased over the last few years?

Could also be that the number of TV posters that used to regularly seize the issue to lambast Abhisit are all strangely gone now that the numbers of fatalities has tripled with a new administration.

.

[philw]

Could it be that not the attitude of the Thai government has changed, but the number of Cambodian loggers has increased over the last few years?

Could also be that the number of TV posters that used to regularly seize the issue to lambast Abhisit are all strangely gone now that the numbers of fatalities has tripled with a new administration.

.

Yes, you are quite right.

The RTA has a long and clear record of murdering people and not being brought to account.

Thoughtful of you to remind us.

[Buchholz]

Could it be that not the attitude of the Thai government has changed, but the number of Cambodian loggers has increased over the last few years?

Could also be that the number of TV posters that used to regularly seize the issue to lambast Abhisit are all strangely gone now that the numbers of fatalities has tripled with a new administration.

.

Yes, you are quite right.

Thoughtful of you to remind us.

You're welcome. Those that completely focused only Abhisit's role in the logger deaths followed by complete silence on Yingluck's role is reminiscent of the same hypocritical situation with the Rohingya.

It mattered not to them whether it was the police or army or border patrol involved, their focus was only on Abhisit.

[rubl]

Could it be that not the attitude of the Thai government has changed, but the number of Cambodian loggers has increased over the last few years?

Could also be that the number of TV posters that used to regularly seize the issue to lambast Abhisit are all strangely gone now that the numbers of fatalities has tripled with a new administration.

.

Yes, you are quite right.

Thoughtful of you to remind us.

You're welcome. Those that completely focused only Abhisit's role in the logger deaths followed by complete silence on Yingluck's role is reminiscent of the same hypocritical situation with the Rohingya.

It mattered not to them whether it was the police or army or border patrol involved, their focus was only on Abhisit.

Searching a bit, it seems in most if not all cases the Thai Border Patrol Police is involved.

"Border Patrol Police (Thai: ตำรวจตระเวนชายแดน) is a Thai paramilitary force responsible for border security and Counter-insurgency.

The Thai Border Patrol Police was organized in the 1950s with assistance from the United States Central Intelligence Agency. Although technically part of the Royal Thai Police, the BPP has always enjoyed a great deal of autonomy within the national headquarters as well as in its multifaceted field operations."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Border_Patrol_Police

[transam]

With any illegal activity EVERYBODY involved in stuff knows the risks. My Thai chum is to do with forestry and is issued with an M16 rifle, the bad guys know it but still risk it. Up to them.

[Buchholz]

Could also be that the number of TV posters that used to regularly seize the issue to lambast Abhisit are all strangely gone now that the numbers of fatalities has tripled with a new administration.

.

Yes, you are quite right.

Thoughtful of you to remind us.

You're welcome. Those that completely focused only Abhisit's role in the logger deaths followed by complete silence on Yingluck's role is reminiscent of the same hypocritical situation with the Rohingya.

It mattered not to them whether it was the police or army or border patrol involved, their focus was only on Abhisit.

Searching a bit, it seems in most if not all cases the Thai Border Patrol Police is involved.

.

I'm sure that as knowledgeable as philw is, he already knew that and his earlier RTA reference was just simply a typo.

.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Buchholz

[Locationthailand]

Same as Malaysia. If an act constitutes any form of illegality, don't waste the courts time (told me by the inspector on the Barlow and Chambers case in 1996). Taken down whilst fleeing is very common in Malaysia or the daily crime newspaper reports where a crim stealing (e.g.) computers fell to his death from the first floor (10' - 3.3m) trying to escape. And where there is no 'love' lost between the rivals, you can hardly see anything different happening now can you? Human Rights in Thailand? Against piracy of timber no way.

[OzMick]

Strictly from the POV of the border patrollers, may I point out there are pluses and minuses involved in killing illegal loggers.

On the plus side, there are the joys of combat and the obvious benefit of not getting a posthumous medal and an official burial/cremation service after you discover armed loggers.

On the minus, there is reams of paperwork waiting you when you get back, investigations and negative comments. Also you have to lug back the bodies and their weapons and equipment. Prisoners that can walk and carry their own <deleted> involve a lot less effort.

[cambtek]

Cambodian media always call the Thai units Rangers.Cambodian loggers are rarely armed,most are poor peasants who couldnt afford an assault rifle.Thais also shoot Cambodians who cross the border looking for work,easy to label these victims as loggers as well.

[BanTamo]

Living on the border in Nam Yuen in the 90s and 00s we frequently heard of the Thai Border Police tossing the bodies of slain poachers back into the Khmer side. Mixed in with these were local (Thai) small-time yaba dealers, their IDs having been removed from the corpses.

Edited February 27, 2013 by BanTamo

[Joe Mamma]

The Cambodian govt. has been eradicating all of Cambodia's forests, so the small crooks have to venture in Thailand to decimate more.

Ever look at a good satellite photo of the Thai- Cambodian border and the sharp green of Thailand to brown Cambodian destruction?

[Robby nz]

^{Wasn't Cambodia very quick to defend its borders against a couple of unarmed Thais and chuck them in jail?}

^{These illegal loggers must be taking their timber back into Cambodia and selling it with the knowledge of some Cambodian authority.}

^{If their lives are so precious to the Cambodian Govt why arnt they stopped on their own side of the border?}

[allan michaud]

As someone working in the Cambodian conservation sector I cannot have much sympathy to be quite honest. The forests here have been stripped of Rosewood and what is locally called 'Beng' which about 3 years ago reached USD7-10,000 per cubic meter. These species have now become almost extinct here, even in the most remote areas.

The botanists I have been working with in Prey Long forest for the past few years have not found any over 10cm in diameter, anything much larger gets cut. The forests have been systematically stripped.

Most of the timber goes to Vietnam and onto the international market. I believe Laos has very similar situation. Here it is headed by certain very well connected people whose companies have basically laundered massive amounts of timber across the country. The few who do get busted are the ones trying to avoid going through the added expense of the launderers.