What Constitutes An Illegal Eviction?

[SADWING]

My girlfriend and I and newborn baby have lived in the same apartment in Surin for the past 6-7 months. It's really great. Nice and cheap. It's out of the way....we've grown to like it. This morning the landlord called us and told us she wants us to leave so her daughter can move in and how this room is special because of some Buddha prayer or something. She offered us a smaller room at the end of the row that has no aircon, which, of course is out of the question since hot season is just about upon us.

In my home country of America a landlord can't just kick you out without good reason or at least have to give you ample notice.

What is the law here in Thailand concerning renting and evicting tenants?

Any advice would be appreciated. Do you think the tourism police would be able to help?

Thanks.

[Crossy]

What is the wording on your lease?

A months notice is reasonable, how long did the landlord give you to leave?

[SADWING]

We don't have a copy of the lease because they never dropped a copy off after we signed it. They also didn't give us a time when they wanted us out, but the tone was "immediately."

[davejones]

We don't have a copy of the lease because they never dropped a copy off after we signed it. They also didn't give us a time when they wanted us out, but the tone was "immediately."

You need to ask them when you they want you to leave. It's no good trying to guess from their tone. Get things clarified. Probably best to move, as it could become unpleasant if you stay, even if you are in the right.

Did you read the lease before signing it?

Edited March 3, 2013 by davejones

[mccw]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

[breadbin]

Read the lease. You must or should've read it before you signed and must have some inclination of what it said. 6/7 months isn't that long.

Ask them when they want you out, if unreasonable, try to negotiate as you have small baby and you've been good tenants.

What's all this bollux about a prayer?? Complete rubbish. Did they tell you this in English or did your gf tell you this is what they again in Thai?

[mccw]

If they believe on the prayer etc then they will worry about bad luck / bad karma by make you hassle too much. But of course it could'be been an excuse. Sounds like its been lost in translation though. the only reason a Buddhist prayer might adversly effect you ie as reason you should not stay in this room, is that if some body died unpleasantly in that room before you and the prayer was made to keep the spirit in the room and not make problems for the rest of the bluilding; maybe why your room was such a cheap price; and the owner is worried the spirit might come try to invade your baby or make problems for it. Many Thais really believe this can/ does happen- there are program's on TV about these kind of things all the time. So it could be the daughter coming back is the excuse to try and persuade the ignorant falang to move rooms for thier own good! Lol

If you really can't afford to move at the end of your paid up time then try to negotiate by the sob story of new baby and need a bit of time to get deposit together for another place; but if you can afford it- just do it and don't be making a nuisance of yourself and potentially bringing more serious problems upon yourself.

Worse case scenario and you get locked out one day when your money runs out then what's the back up plan? Does your wife not have family who could take you in for a couple of months? Or you don't have parents or friends who could lend you enough to cover starting at new place? No posessions or valuables to pawn or loan against to get through the gap?

You should be thinking of ways to sort yourself out rather than how to make problems for your landlord, hoping the law can give you a free ride at some one else's expense; typical western nanny state of mind

[BrianCR]

excuse my saying so but, anyone who signs a document anywhere in the world and doesn't keep a copy is a non starter. God the mind boggles

[Satcommlee]

Sounds awful, sorry to hear about the predicament but if you have no document in your hand then you are in no position legally.

Did you also give them a deposit?

[wooloomooloo]

Tenancy agreements don't appear to carry much weight, particularly when you're falang.

Accept the lady's offer of the alternative accommodation and purchase one or two portable air conditioning units or move out.

I'd forget about any legal protection or recompense and best to think forward.

[davejones]

If they believe on the prayer etc then they will worry about bad luck / bad karma by make you hassle too much. But of course it could'be been an excuse. Sounds like its been lost in translation though. the only reason a Buddhist prayer might adversly effect you ie as reason you should not stay in this room, is that if some body died unpleasantly in that room before you and the prayer was made to keep the spirit in the room and not make problems for the rest of the bluilding; maybe why your room was such a cheap price; and the owner is worried the spirit might come try to invade your baby or make problems for it. Many Thais really believe this can/ does happen- there are program's on TV about these kind of things all the time. So it could be the daughter coming back is the excuse to try and persuade the ignorant falang to move rooms for thier own good! Lol

If you really can't afford to move at the end of your paid up time then try to negotiate by the sob story of new baby and need a bit of time to get deposit together for another place; but if you can afford it- just do it and don't be making a nuisance of yourself and potentially bringing more serious problems upon yourself.

Worse case scenario and you get locked out one day when your money runs out then what's the back up plan? Does your wife not have family who could take you in for a couple of months? Or you don't have parents or friends who could lend you enough to cover starting at new place? No posessions or valuables to pawn or loan against to get through the gap?

You should be thinking of ways to sort yourself out rather than how to make problems for your landlord, hoping the law can give you a free ride at some one else's expense; typical western nanny state of mind

Nothing to do with nanny state or getting a free ride. All about sticking to the contract.

[davejones]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

What gives them a moral right is the fact that they signed a contract.

[richard_smith237]

You have a child to consider so just ask the landlord for a few weeks to find alternative accommodation with Air-con. Ask her for help or any recommendations she may have, she may be able to help you and even help you move your items if needed.

If you have outstayed your contact, then it is fair enough that she wants to reuse the room.

I don't think the landlady is being unfair, but give her the opportunity to help and you might find somewhere you are equally satisfied with.

[mccw]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

What gives them a moral right is the fact that they signed a contract.

What contract? He doesn't even know what it said let alone have a copy. As such I said he should be able to stay up to the end of his paid up time period. Fair enough.

He might of just signed an inventory / responsibility agreement for any damages; who knows, maybe month by month, 6 months, a year; doesn't matter because he didn't even have the sense to keep a copy.

It is a total nanny state of mind because he's got himself in to an unfortunate predicament and instead of trying to get himself out of it he is looking for the law / state to "protect" him.

[davejones]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

What gives them a moral right is the fact that they signed a contract.

What contract? He doesn't even know what it said let alone have a copy. As such I said he should be able to stay up to the end of his paid up time period. Fair enough.

He might of just signed an inventory / responsibility agreement for any damages; who knows, maybe month by month, 6 months, a year; doesn't matter because he didn't even have the sense to keep a copy.

It is a total nanny state of mind because he's got himself in to an unfortunate predicament and instead of trying to get himself out of it he is looking for the law / state to "protect" him.

It all depends what the contract says. But as he didn't get a copy and he hasn't told us anything about it, then we don't really know the whole situation. But I think he's just asking a simple question about the law. Having laws to follow is nothing to do with a nanny state. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of a nanny state. Sounds like the landlord is more in the wrong, because he said he'd give him a copy of the contract, but he didn't. But for all we know there might be a 1-month termination clause that the landlord is invoking, which would mean the landlord is in the right. We just don't have enough information to know who is right or wrong.

Anyway, best things is just to forget about it and move out. Can't see how getting the police involved will help the situation.

Edited March 4, 2013 by davejones

[mccw]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

What gives them a moral right is the fact that they signed a contract.

What contract? He doesn't even know what it said let alone have a copy. As such I said he should be able to stay up to the end of his paid up time period. Fair enough.

He might of just signed an inventory / responsibility agreement for any damages; who knows, maybe month by month, 6 months, a year; doesn't matter because he didn't even have the sense to keep a copy.

It is a total nanny state of mind because he's got himself in to an unfortunate predicament and instead of trying to get himself out of it he is looking for the law / state to "protect" him.

It all depends what the contract says. But as he didn't get a copy and he hasn't told us anything about it, then we don't really know the whole situation. But I think he's just asking a simple question about the law. Having laws to follow is nothing to do with a nanny state. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of a nanny state. Sounds like the landlord is more in the wrong, because he said he'd give him a copy of the contract, but he didn't. But for all we know there might be a 1-month termination clause that the landlord is invoking, which would mean the landlord is in the right. We just don't have enough information to know who is right or wrong.

Anyway, best things is just to forget about it and move out. Can't see how getting the police involved will help the situation.

I agree with everything you said apart from his mentality to try and use police or some kind of human rights laws rather than just take responsibility for himself; this is oneof kkey factors I dislike so much about the western nanny state- the lack of personal responsibility bred by welfare and human rights type legislation

[davejones]

I agree with everything you said apart from his mentality to try and use police or some kind of human rights laws rather than just take responsibility for himself; this is oneof kkey factors I dislike so much about the western nanny state- the lack of personal responsibility bred by welfare and human rights type legislation

I also agree with you. People don't take enough responsibility, especially in the West. Always looking for someone else to blame, someone else to pay, etc.

[TommoPhysicist]

Burn a few black candles around the place, and leave them when you move out.

Tell her you have been cursing the room, and making bad luck for the next occupants.

My personal fav is some chanting then cutting a chicken head off over a statue of Kali, Buddha Kali likes blood.

But not everyone is prepared to go as far as me.

That should counter any good prayer rubbish.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[davejones]

Burn a few black candles around the place, and leave them when you move out.

Tell her you have been cursing the room, and making bad luck for the next occupants.

My personal fav is some chanting then cutting a chicken head off over a statue of Kali, Buddha Kali likes blood.

But not everyone is prepared to go as far as me.

That should counter any good prayer rubbish.

LOL.

[TommoPhysicist]

Forgot to say

Nail the used chicken head by the neck (head hangs down) on the outside over the door lintel.

Edited March 4, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[SADWING]

We don't have a copy of the lease because they never dropped a copy off after we signed it. They also didn't give us a time when they wanted us out, but the tone was "immediately."

You need to ask them when you they want you to leave. It's no good trying to guess from their tone. Get things clarified. Probably best to move, as it could become unpleasant if you stay, even if you are in the right.

Did you read the lease before signing it?

Yeah, we read it. But it was barely a legal contract. They took us on our word and theirs on ours. I have more info which I'll post after responding to the rest of the posters on this list...

[SADWING]

If you dont have a copy of the lease then you have zero chance of any protection; not that there would be much anyhow. With out evidence of a lease or money's paid up for any time periods the police could be called to throw you out for trespassing at any time.

I think that Up until the end of the period you have paid for if a week or months notice, both is reasonable. The owner sounds fair enough offering you another room after you pre paid time expires i assume and if you don't happen to like it then find another place to live. It's not your property and the owner wants it for thier own daughter; what makes you think you have more moral right than she to live in the place?

Be nice to the landlady and cross you fingers that you get your deposit back.

I failed to mention that they said they were sorry and that they would refund us the entire deposit if we didn't want the new room. See my update after I reply to everyone...

[SADWING]

If they believe on the prayer etc then they will worry about bad luck / bad karma by make you hassle too much. But of course it could'be been an excuse. Sounds like its been lost in translation though. the only reason a Buddhist prayer might adversly effect you ie as reason you should not stay in this room, is that if some body died unpleasantly in that room before you and the prayer was made to keep the spirit in the room and not make problems for the rest of the bluilding; maybe why your room was such a cheap price; and the owner is worried the spirit might come try to invade your baby or make problems for it. Many Thais really believe this can/ does happen- there are program's on TV about these kind of things all the time. So it could be the daughter coming back is the excuse to try and persuade the ignorant falang to move rooms for thier own good! Lol

If you really can't afford to move at the end of your paid up time then try to negotiate by the sob story of new baby and need a bit of time to get deposit together for another place; but if you can afford it- just do it and don't be making a nuisance of yourself and potentially bringing more serious problems upon yourself.

Worse case scenario and you get locked out one day when your money runs out then what's the back up plan? Does your wife not have family who could take you in for a couple of months? Or you don't have parents or friends who could lend you enough to cover starting at new place? No posessions or valuables to pawn or loan against to get through the gap?

You should be thinking of ways to sort yourself out rather than how to make problems for your landlord, hoping the law can give you a free ride at some one else's expense; typical western nanny state of mind

So, it turns out the father got sick a couple weeks ago. Maybe they think that us staying in the room we are in caused it. They call it Heung Chui. From what I gather, Heung Chui is luck for the family or house depending on it's place and positioning. We've been there for six months, so I just find it very strange that they pick NOW to use this bullshit religious excuse. Either way, we've found a few options and we'll have a new place within a week.

[SADWING]

excuse my saying so but, anyone who signs a document anywhere in the world and doesn't keep a copy is a non starter. God the mind boggles

True, but there was no copy machine on the premises and she never showed up with the copy. It was more of a handshake deal anyway. Thinking back, I never signed anything OR gave them my passport number. I guess we could just be considered trespassers at this point.

[SADWING]

You have a child to consider so just ask the landlord for a few weeks to find alternative accommodation with Air-con. Ask her for help or any recommendations she may have, she may be able to help you and even help you move your items if needed.

If you have outstayed your contact, then it is fair enough that she wants to reuse the room.

I don't think the landlady is being unfair, but give her the opportunity to help and you might find somewhere you are equally satisfied with.

Thanks for the best response to this thread. It seems the most sensible. See my longer reply at the end of the thread....

[SADWING]

So, thanks to everyone for responding. I usually only write these kinds of posts/questions out of frustration or just wanting to know <deleted>, ya know? It turns out the father who lives in a house attached to the property is getting sick. They gave us two reasons why they wanted us to leave. They want their daughter to have the room so she can be close to take care of her grandfather. (She actually only lives a stones throw away anyway) and second, they said "Heung Chui." Which is a chinese buddhist thing having to do with luck and ghosts and such.

Since then they've offered us another room just a few doors down that has no air-con. Today they said they would put air-con in the room and we can move in after the other people they are kicking out move out. They are even giving us the new room for 3500 baht which includes the fridge and the internet and we pay for electric and water separately.

Not that it matters and this is just a side note...but I'm an atheist and it's this kind of BS that really gets me. People imposing their superstitions on the rest of the world because of their belief in the supernatural. What happened to reason? What happened to human solidarity? What happened to common sense?

We found another place today that is really nice, brand new, but missing a few things. It's 4000 baht, no fridge and no internet....but quite beautiful and, like I said, new.

So there it is.

Again, thanks for everyone's reply and to those of you who were kind enough to lend support.

Cheers!

[davejones]

Glad to hear you've got everything sorted.

I don't think the owner is imposing their superstitions on the rest of the world though. These are their beliefs, and they are entitled to believe whatever the like, just as you are. If you don't agree with them then you need to question owners about their beliefs before you rent. They are not asking you to have the same beliefs. You are in Thailand, so don't expect everyone to follow your Western beliefs. This isn't the West. It sounds like you have moved here with your Western beliefs and expected everyone to fit in with them. You'll be in for a hard time with an attitude like that. Try to go with the flow.

Edited March 4, 2013 by davejones

[SADWING]

Glad to hear you've got everything sorted.

I don't think the owner is imposing their superstitions on the rest of the world though. These are their beliefs, and they are entitled to believe whatever the like, just as you are. If you don't agree with them then you need to question owners about their beliefs before you rent. They are not asking you to have the same beliefs. You are in Thailand, so don't expect everyone to follow your Western beliefs. This isn't the West. It sounds like you have moved here with your Western beliefs and expected everyone to fit in with them. You'll be in for a hard time with an attitude like that. Try to go with the flow.

Of course they are imposing their beliefs on the rest of the world. Uprooting a family because they believe in ghosts? Surely, that is an imposition. Also, buddhism is accepted in certain forms of buddhism, so classifying it as only a western belief is wrong. Yes, I could have grilled them upon their belief system before moving in but I usually just go with the flow. Now if they were crazy christians, that'd be a different story. I'd never have rented from them in the first place. As an atheist, though, I give buddhists the benefit of the doubt. I just pointed my atheism out as an ironic fact. An atheist gets kicked out of their house due to a religious belief in ghosts....it's quite comical in one sense and was kind of ridiculous in another. I've lived in Thailand for several years now and I fit in quite nicely. My girl is buddhist (barely) and my son will be raised to choose whatever his critical mind chooses for him. But, thanks for your sage advice.

[SADWING]

Burn a few black candles around the place, and leave them when you move out.

Tell her you have been cursing the room, and making bad luck for the next occupants.

My personal fav is some chanting then cutting a chicken head off over a statue of Kali, Buddha Kali likes blood.

But not everyone is prepared to go as far as me.

That should counter any good prayer rubbish.

LOL! The evil side of me was trying to think of what I could do to them to really piss them off. Naturally, though, that's not my style. But, when I was angry at the prospect of having to find a new place all of the sudden after feeling all nice and settled in, I was thinking...."Is there some way I could curse this house???" I would never do anything like that...but, your reply was funny as hell...hahahahaha