Thaksin Flees The Capital ... And Reality

[plachon]

I wish he would just go and stop trying to hang on to power when clearly he is no longer wanted.

No longer wanted by who??? (small minority I'm afraid)

You've been around in Thailand long enough to understand that it's small minorities, when they are made up of phu yai, that really count.

I think the bigger problem is that you've been here far too long if you really believe this.

I prefer to choose my own leader, but if you would rather have your fate determined by your phu yai, feel free not to vote in the election and go ahead and hang out in Sanam Luang for the next few years.

I'm afraid you missed my point entirely. I was just stating a reality about Thailand, that it has usually been quite narrow elites who have determined the outcome of events in the past, and not the masses. Would that it were different, and many Thais appreciate this barrier to genuine democracy. So right now there is a movement to remedy this problem through removing one of the sources of the problems and improving the "People's Constitution".

I too prefer to choose my own leader, but that then I'm not Thai, so hanging out in Sanam Luang isn't an option. If I was, I'd probably be there for the duration.

[sriracha john]

Thai PM accuses critics of resorting to black magic

the occult

black magic

the supernatural

were using photographs and voodoo-like dolls to cast spells

their magic

I think that people who don't see the brilliance of releasing a statement about Thaksin's faith in Buddha amulets to the media during an election campaign lack the insight to understand Thai politics.

Orion...

if you really believe the highlighted and bolded words from the original article have anything to do with the Lord Buddha and Buddhism, then you really should spend the next 25 hours of your online time in the Buddhism Forum and no where else in Thaivisa.

Buddhism is what would truly invoke Thais to respect Thaksin... this charlatan voodoo garbage is an affront to Lord Buddha and Buddhism.

If Thaksin is seeking respect from Thais for his Buddhism, he's not getting this way.

[penzman]

A crowd looks at messages posted on trees along Ratchadamneorn Road.

No messages to look at on that tree but a few bullet holes. When you see bullet holes, you get the message...

Thai PM accuses critics of resorting to black magic

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) _ Street protests are one thing,

but black magic is another. Embattled Thai Prime Minister

Thaksin Shinawatra, a firm believer in astrology and the

occult, conceded Tuesday that the stars have not been in

his favor lately but said his political enemies were taking

it a step too far. «They are using all kinds of means to

try and destroy me, including black magic and the

supernatural,» he told a meeting of civil servants at

Government House. Without naming names, Thaksin said his

critics were using photographs and voodoo-like dolls to

cast spells. «But don't worry, I have talismans and

various Buddha amulets with me to ward off their magic.»

And posters still ask why DL is considered to be unfit to lead the country !

Signs of bipolar disorder and a pinch of paranoia.

I fear the PM only has one oar in the water.

[sriracha john]

This isn't about the Shin deal alone. There are endless issues of corruption coming out right now. TRT members are changing ranks.

The Thai people are starting to see the truth about Thaksin and friends.

Very good posts with many valid points....

...and just to re-emphasize the ever-growing number of TRT defections... including even those that are occuring now... just prior to the 02.04.06 elections:

Outspoken TRT MP resigns and becomes a monk

An outspoken Thai Rak Thai MP, Dr Premsak Piayura, resigned from the party today and entered the monkhood at Suan Kaew Temple in Nonthaburi province.

TRT spokesman Sita Divari confirmed Premsak's resignation.

"My understanding is that he has had somebody submit his resignation. He is now a monk," Sita said.

TRT deputy leader Pongthep Thepkanjana said Premsak's resignation had affected the party list because he was placed at 93rd.

But Pongthep said nothing would be done about it until after the April 2 election.

Premsak was known as an outspoken politician and a defender of TRT. But he had joined the opposition parties and People's Alliance for Democracy in criticising Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra shortly before he called the House dissolution.

quite a dramatic shift from defender to accuser of TRT

Premsak's secretary said his decision was meant to send a message to all conflicting parties to find an acceptable resolution to the present political dilemma.

He quoted Premsak as saying he would spend the rest of his life as a monk.

The Nation

--------------------

special notice for Orion:

please note above article about Buddhism. If Thaksin wants Thais to respect him for his Buddhism, this would be a terrific opportunity for him to follow suit.

Edited March 11, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

To my admitted surprise.... The EC is finding huge gaping holes in the run-up to this "supposed" election:

EC probing small parties vying for seats in April 2 poll

The Election Commission (EC) is probing small parties vying for seats in the April 2 poll after detecting possible malpractice in their registration. EC chairman Wasana Permlarp said yesterday that there are likely to be irregularities with the Thai Chuay Thai party, which recruited an unusually large number of members on registration day.

He promised to carry out an inquiry although the process could be time-consuming as the law requires political parties to report their data to the EC only once a year. That could hinder the EC's investigation into any irregularities, especially the educational backgrounds of candidates, because checking could be slow and tedious.

Besides, the EC functions only as the registrar of political parties, which means it is not authorised to approve the application of a candidate. Such authority rests with the poll director of each constituency, Pol Gen Wasana said.

Meanwhile, the Chart Thai party claims it has reason to believe that Thai Ground, another small party, is inadequately equipped to field as many candidates as it has in unfamiliar constituencies.

Chart Thai deputy leader Nikorn Chamnong yesterday petitioned EC secretary-general Ekachai Warunprapha to investigate the party.

According to Mr Nikorn, on Jan 9, Thai Ground leader Boon-itthipon Shinarat sought a merger with Chart Thai after it was ordered to return 551,755.70 baht of its party development fund to the EC.

The cash return followed the discovery that Thai Ground's balance sheet did not add up.

Thai Ground declared that it had 50 branches and 30,006 members nationwide. Chart Thai turned down its merger request.

Mr Nikorn said it was perplexing that Thai Ground, which had experienced difficulties in the past, managed to send an unusually large number of candidates to stand in unfamiliar constituencies.

He said Thai Ground had its headquarters and eight branches in Maha Sarakham but fielded only two candidates there. It also opened branches in Ranong and Chumphon but did not field any candidates in those provinces.

However, it registered 14 candidates in the three southern border provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat although it is almost unheard of there.

.... geez guys... you can do better scamming than that, can't you? Try and least not make it so obvious, ok?

There have been reports that some small parties had been paid to field candidates to provide competition for the Thai Rak Thai party.

Meanwhile, the EC yesterday rejected the application of a candidate from the Prachakorn Thai party in constituency 6 of Ubon Ratchathani as he failed to cast his vote in past elections _ a mandatory act under the constitution.

The Sing Buri provincial election panel yesterday disqualified a candidate from the Khonkhoplodnee party on the grounds that he held membership of two political parties. The panel found that Chalor Rungchamkad was also a member of the Thai Rak Thai party. He failed to produce evidence that he had already quit Thai Rak Thai before putting his name forward for the new party.

In Buri Ram, the commission also scrapped the applications of three candidates from Thai Ground who had not been members of the party for at least 90 days prior to the candidacy registration day.

A candidate from the Rak Phandinthai party was disqualified for being a member of two political parties at the same time. Another candidate from the Thai Chuay Thai party was rejected because of the lack of a reference letter from the party leader.

The EC said it was a one-horse race for the ruling Thai Rak Thai in 10 constituencies in the northeastern provinces, the party's stronghold.

The EC has yet to examine about 50 other candidates whose profiles are doubtful, according to Pol Maj-Gen Ekachai.

-BP

[sriracha john]

More bumps in the road for the TRT election..... errrr, I mean the Thai election:

TRT resignation casts doubt on election process

House cannot sit if fewer than 100 party-list MPs

The Thai Rak Thai Party appears to be facing a fresh trouble as one of its party-list MP candidates, Premsak Phiayura, recently tendered his resignation and entered the monkhood.

His move has reduced the number of Thai Rak Thai's party-list MP candidates from 100 to 99. Thai Rak Thai had been expected to win all party-list MP seats since all three former opposition parties have boycotted the election and smaller parties will find it tough to garner enough votes to take even one party-list seat.

The law requires there to be the full complement of 500 MPs for the new House to sit and select a premier.

Meanwhile, a Rangsit University poll conducted on March 8-9 shows that the popularity of a "major" political party has plunged from about 10 million supporters to about seven million.

Of the 724 respondents in Bangkok and 1,539 in other provinces, about 32 per cent also said they would tick the "no vote" box in the April 2 election.

The university said the popularity plunge of this "major" party was based on comparison with a poll conducted about a year ago, when the party won 53 per cent of the vote in the last general election.

However, only 22 per cent of respondents said in the latest poll that they would still vote for the No-1 party, which got a total of bout 19 million votes in the last general election.

In response to the latest party-list development, General Akekachai Varunprapa, secretary-general of the Election Commission, said the new House of Representatives following the election had to have 500 MPs - including 100 party-list MPs - before it could convene to select a prime minister.

The small and new parties - most of which are little-known or have never been heard of before - have fielded some candidates, but do not expect to get any MPs from their party lists.

By law, a party-list MP is required to get at least five per cent of the total votes cast in a general election.

Premsak, who has entered the monkhood at Wat Suan Kaew in Nonthaburi, was ranked 93rd on the Thai Rak Thai list.

In his resignation letter, Premsak said the wide rift between Thaksin supporters and the anti-Thaksin group had gone beyond the point of a compromise. He feared the situation was likely to end in violence.

Thaksin wants to go for the election while his antagonists have turned their backs on the campaign, he said.

Premsak said he had decided to enter the monkhood to pave the way for the two camps to sit and talk and reach a way out of the impasse for the benefit of the country.

"Hopefully, my decision will lead to a peaceful solution with no bloodshed among Thais," he wrote. "It will also break the move for the election to be held on April 2."

Observers expect that Thai Rak Thai would stand to win all the 100 party-list seats and most of the 400 constituent seats after three opposition parties - the Democrats, Chat Thai and Mahachon - boycotted the election.

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra downplayed concerns that his party would be in trouble after the election because the House session to select the new PM could not be opened.

He said he did not believe Thai Rak Thai would in any case win all the 100 party-list seats, saying some other contending parties could take at least five per cent of the proportional votes.

ho.. ho.. ho.. look at how humble Thaksin is... how pathetically pathological can one get?

Premsak's resignation came as the political conflict reached a stalemate with threat of further violence looming after a bomb rocked the home of Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda earlier this week.

The three opposition parties have boycotted the general election on the grounds that it is not the right way out and that a fair poll cannot be assured.

Without their participation, the election looked set to produce a one-party House of 500 MPs for Thai Rak Thai as other small parties are expected to fail in their campaigns.

- TN

wheee.... let the real party begin if that happens... but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There's going to be by-election after by-election to get to the full 500.

Edited March 11, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

more electioneering shenanigans:

Chat Thai asks EC to review Paendin Thai's records

Chat Thai Party deputy leader Nikorn Jamnong Friday petitioned the Election Commission to review the records of the Paendin Thai Party, adding he was suspicious it might be cheating.

"I urge electoral officials to examine Paendin Thai's membership and the campaign applications from its candidates," he said.

Nikorn said he was suspicious that the party was now suddenly able to contest the April 2 election. Two months ago it offered to merge with his party on the grounds it could not reimburse the EC its Bt550,000 in overdrawn financial subsidies, he said.

Furthermore, the party acted suspiciously when it fielded electoral candidates.

Although in Mahasarakham, the seat of its party headquarters, only two PT candidates are contesting five constituencies, but it has four candidates in Suphanburi, where the party has never had an office, he said.

The Democrat Party, meanwhile, questioned the qualifications of four electoral candidates in Krabi because they might not have been affiliated with a political party for 90 days before declaring their candidacy, Democrat executive Piraphan Saliratwipak said.

The four are Somchai Kongjam of Paendin Thai, Silpprasert Kongyong of Thai Chuay Thai, Kasem Surasit of Prachakorn Thai and Jeh Hasan Yala of Progressive Democratic.

EC secretary general Ekachai Warunprapha said electoral officials were verifying the qualifications of the parties and candidates contesting the snap election.

- TN

yep, this is shaping up into a real "fair" and "democratic" election.

While the snap election certainly caught the opposition parties off-guard, it apparently caught the TRT unprepared as well as it becomes more obvious that the TRT guys didn't have enough time to get all their scams lined up properly.

Edited March 12, 2006 by sriracha john

[Chris Lawrence]

Out of all of this all I can say is welcome to Thailand. There has been some good commentry here but quite a lot of bulls##t with posters lost up their own behinds. Somewhere the sun never shines.

My view is that expats should focus on the real issues affecting them.

Why is the ABCAsiapacific limiting its coverage of the real football game, Rugby Leauge.

Forget about soccer. Aussie Rules, union or the American Football; what about the real football. These guys put it on the line. It is the only game where we can constantly beat the Kiwi's. There is nothing better in this world then to see the Kiwi's go down.

Maybe one of the issues that needs to be put on the agenda for this election is that schools intoduce touch football as part of the standard sport. Come on, we all like to see results, not 0-0 or 1-1. It will teach kids what is fair play, integrity and keep you fit. If all else fails hit the guy with the ball. Get your frustrations out on the field; before you enter politics.

I can only think that if all the energy that has been put into this forum on the election issue could be dirverted to Aunty(ABC) or have live radio coverage by the great Ray Hadley (I really want to bring back Big Dazza Eastlake, he was the best for commentating, made life interesting) our lives will again be forfilled.

As u can see I cherish my football. Energy should be directed to where it is needed most. The sad thing in all of this is that we may complain about a situation that may change in its own life and way, but we really need to get behind a real political football.

Look what happened to football when Murdoch and Packer got involved! U think Sondhi any better?

Complain to Aunty. I think not seeing the opening match of the season was a disgrace. St George and the Tigers.

Maybe Thaksin fleed the capital to watch the Broncos go down to Nth Queensland. Maybe he has taken on some of Muzza's (Graham Murray-coach) game plan. Run the ball up the middle, catch the opposition napping.

Life and politics can be like a game of football. We are all on the sidelines cheering for a result. Can u imagine a 1-1 result here. No wonder there are soccer hooligans.

Any way this has been my slant on the state of play for this great land.

[jdinasia]

If football is the only thing you beat the Kiwis at .... well .... that's just sad!

[sriracha john]

Election Starting To Look Awfully Messy

Unless there's a political sleight of hand, it might be impossible to elect a new PM, which would leave the EC in quite a bind

As the highly-contentious April 2 election draws ever closer, clouds are beginning to form over the chances of Thaksin Shinawatra even being able to return as prime minister, let alone weather the storm that seems inevitable should he do so.

Political uncertainty over whether the election will be able to produce an outcome came out of the blue when a Thai Rak Thai party-list candidate, Premsak Phiayura, unexpectedly quit politics for the life of an ascetic, where he is now known as Phra Premasakko.

The fly-in-the-ointment here for Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai is that it had thought it would win all 100 party-list seats in the absence of the three main opposition parties. The remaining parties contesting the election - and they are all very small fry indeed - have virtually no chance of gaining the 5 per cent of the votes they need to claim their quota of party-list seats. With Premsak pulling out, that will leave Parliament one seat shy of 500, and therefore legally incapable of forming a government and electing a prime minister.

The only hope for Thaksin is that a miracle will occur and one of the smaller parties manages a "donkey vote" success. But given their performance in the previous general election [see details in box], that seems unlikely.

In the 2005 election, the party-list voter turnout was 31 million. With the system requiring a party to earn a minimum of five seats, that meant it had to win just over 1.5 million votes (5 per cent of the voter turn out).

With the competitive nature of elections being absent from this one, voter enthusiasm on April 2 could justifiably be muted, resulting in a lower turnout, but the experts do not feel that this will happen because of the system of compulsory voting. Something close to the 2005 turnout, therefore, is predicted.

So the best way to ensure a full complement of party-list MPs, which would allow the formation of a government (this is presuming all Thai Rak Thai constituency candidates achieve the minimum 20 per cent of votes in order to qualify for their seats) is for Thai Rak Thai to persuade sufficient of their supporters to vote for the minnows on April 2.

Besides the Thai Rak Thai behemoth, seven insignificant and largely unknown parties are fielding party-list candidates: Thai Farmers Party, People Power Party, Thai Citizen Party, Thai Ground Party, Thai Chuay Thai Party, Pattana Charthai Party and Dhammocratic Party.

Some political observers feel Thai Rak Thai will have to persuade its constituency candidates, especially in the Northeast, to do some campaigning for the minnows. That is, they'll ask their supporters to vote for them as constituency candidates but select a minnow candidate on the party-list ballot.

In the 2001 election, a candidate from the obscure Thin Thai Party was elected after Thai Rak Thai supporters were asked to cast their votes for him.

A Thai Rak Thai MP was disqualified after receiving a red card from the Election Commission so the party asked its supporters to vote for the Thin Thai candidate instead of an opposition candidate.

But it's not quite the same this time around. There will be a big question of credibility if somehow the Thai Citizen Party is able to draw 1.5 million votes after having gained a minuscule 38,324 votes (0.12 per cent) last year.

But should none of the minor parties achieve this miracle, then the House will have fewer than the requisite number of members. Having never faced this problem before, the Election Commission could find itself in quite a bind as to whether it can call a party-list by-election.

But should other Thai Rak Thai party-list candidates follow Premsak's lead and jump ship as well, the headache facing Thaksin could prove insurmountable.

- TN

[Carmine6]

From Reuters India:

Link Here

Thai palace voices worries of political violence

By Nopporn Wong-Anan

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thailand's royal palace asked television to air film on Sunday of the king intervening in 1992 to defuse political bloodshed; a show of concern that protests against Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra could end in violence.

All six networks showed Suchinda Kraprayoon, then head of a military-led government, and Chamlong Srimuang, who led a "people power" protest to oust him, prostrating themselves before revered King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

Some 50 people were killed in violence which led to the fall of that government and many fear the biggest anti-government demonstrations since then might also end in bloodshed.

Editors said the channels showed the 1992 footage at the request of the palace on the eve of another demonstration against Thaksin in Bangkok, where a campaign against him began in January when relatives sold the business empire he founded.

"We received a call from the Royal Household Bureau today asking every channel to ... air the footage because they don't want the situation to escalate," one said.

"They wanted everyone to see the king's speech again," the editor, who declined to be identified, told Reuters.

It was the first time the royal palace has publicly intervened in the current political crisis.

SNAP ELECTIONS

Demonstrators planned to start a protest on Monday night near the glittering Grand Palace and march on Tuesday morning to Thaksin's office, where the cabinet is due to meet.

The demonstrations have attracted large crowds of mainly middle class people outraged by the tax-free $1.9 billion sale of Shin Corp, the telecommunications conglomerate Thaksin founded, by his relatives to a Singapore state investment firm.

So far, the demonstrations have been peaceful and police have kept a low profile, but the transmission of the 1992 royal audience emphasised fears they may not remain so in a country with a long a relatively recent history of military coups.

The 1992 royal audience came after protesters led by Chamlong were killed by troops near the Grand Palace.

Chamlong, a 70-year-old ascetic retired general and former governor of Bangkok who brought Thaksin into politics, is now a member of the coalition trying to oust his former protege, who fought back by calling a snap election for April 2.

The three main opposition parties have decided to boycott the election which they say cannot be free and fair because Thaksin has taken control of institutions, such as the Election Commission, meant to be independent.

Calls for compromise by senior royal advisors have gone unheeded so far.

Responding to the palace's call, the non-parliamentary coalition, which vows to continue the demonstrations until Thaksin quits, said it was aware of the concern, but would go ahead with its "peaceful" march at dawn on Tuesday.

"We always bear in mind the king's concern of peace and stability," said Suriyasai Katasila of the People's Alliance for Democracy. "But the rally to Government House, which will be peaceful, will continue."

Thaksin, who could not be reached for immediate comment, says he will not bow to "mob rule" and accuses the parliamentary opposition of betraying democracy by boycotting the snap poll.

(Additional reporting by Pracha Hariraksapitak)

Edited March 12, 2006 by Carmine6

[lukamar]

1:- House cannot sit if fewer than 100 party-list MPs

2:- The law requires there to be the full complement of 500 MPs for the new House to sit and select a premier.

Does anyone have a link or the laws relating to the two statements above. In the Constitution there does not seem to be anything that could be interpreted that way, nor in anything for the Elections Commission..

[sriracha john]

Things are getting even more muddled:

Three party candidates to be charged

Confess they were hired to run in poll

The Election Commission in Trang will take legal action against three former candidates of a little-known party who have confessed they were hired to run in the April 2 race in the southern province. Thammasak Tanwaropas, chairman of the EC in Trang, said candidates Nipha Chanpor, Ratchanu Tangsri and Suvit Ob-oun, who represented the Progressive Democratic party, had violated the election law.

The candidates turned up at the Democrat party headquarters in Bangkok yesterday to seek legal advice.

They said they had been approached by a man identified as ''Jeng Dok Jik'' at a Bangkok hotel to stand in the election in Trang under the Progressive Democratic party banner. The man, who gave them 30,000 baht each to contest the poll, had promised to forge documents to authenticate 90-day party membership for them.

They decided to consult the Democrats following reports that election authorities would take legal action against candidates who forged documents.

They were advised by Democrat secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban to lodge a complaint with the Election Commission, and resign from their party which would end their contest at the election.

However, by law the three cannot withdraw their poll registration. The EC is examining candidate qualification and will name the qualified candidates tomorrow.

Mr Thammasak said the three must be punished to set a precedent.

He also said the panel detected irregularities in party membership application forms submitted by the candidates. The forms were apparently signed by the party leader before being sent to the candidates to fill in.

Meanwhile, Democrat Suwaroj Palang has been asked to petition the Election Commission to monitor the election to ensure transparency.

Democrat spokesman Ong-art Khlampaiboon called on the EC to keep a watchful eye on a possible ''transfer of votes'' from major parties to small parties following the abrupt resignation of Thai Rak Thai list candidate Premsak Piayura, who is in the monkhood. Mr Premsak's resignation had left Thai Rak Thai's party list one short.

Mr Ong-art was worried about vote transfers following a remark by Thai Rak Thai leader and caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra that the Thai Citizen party might receive 5% of total votes cast to gain a ''party list'' representative. The remark came after Mr Premsak quit.

''Why did Mr Thaksin think of the Thai Citizen party (after Mr Premsak's resignation left Thai Rak Thai's party list one short) despite the fact that other parties also contest the poll?'' asked Mr Ong-art. In past elections, Thai Citizen's party list attracted only a few votes.

The Democrat spokesman said Thai Rak Thai had tried to tell the public that Mr Premsak's resignation would have no impact on its party list.

In fact, the resignation affected Thai Rak Thai's party list as the constitution required the House could be convened only if there were 500 MPs _ 400 constituency and 100 party list, said Mr Ong-art.

''Now there are around 44 million eligible voters across the country. Five per cent of voters is about two million votes. If a big party wants a small party to gain one party list MP, it's possible that the big party will transfer votes from 60-70 constituencies of the total 400 constituencies to the small one,'' Mr Ong-art said.

- BP

[lukamar]

the constitution required the House could be convened only if there were 500 MPs _ 400 constituency and 100 party list, said Mr Ong-art.

- BP

This is a link to the Constitution on the EC website, maybe someone else can find the above referenced but I can not find any reference to minimum numbers required by the constitution before the house is allowed to sit.

Thai Constitution

[Plus]

Lukamar, what exactly are you looking for?

Part 2

The House of Representatives ____________

Section 98. The House of Representatives consists of five hundred members, one hundred of whom are from the election on a party-list basis under section 99 and four hundred of whom are from the election on a constituency basis under section 102.

That alone should be enough to claim that 499 member House is not a House at all. Also there are numerous references to organic laws, for example in this article:

Section 144. The Election Commission shall control and hold, or cause to be held, an election of members of the House of Representatives, senators, members of a local assembly and local administrators including the voting in a referendum for the purpose of rendering it to proceed in an honest and fair manner. The Chairman of the Election Commission shall have the charge and control of the execution of the organic law on the election of members of the House of Representatives and senators, the organic law on political parties, the organic law on the voting in a referendum and the law on the election of members of local assemblies or local administrators and shall be the political- party registrar.

I can't be bothered to search for English translations of all those organic laws.

[lukamar]

Lukamar, what exactly are you looking for?

Part 2

The House of Representatives ____________

Section 98. The House of Representatives consists of five hundred members, one hundred of whom are from the election on a party-list basis under section 99 and four hundred of whom are from the election on a constituency basis under section 102.

That alone should be enough to claim that 499 member House is not a House at all. Also there are numerous references to organic laws, for example in this article:

Section 144. The Election Commission shall control and hold, or cause to be held, an election of members of the House of Representatives, senators, members of a local assembly and local administrators including the voting in a referendum for the purpose of rendering it to proceed in an honest and fair manner. The Chairman of the Election Commission shall have the charge and control of the execution of the organic law on the election of members of the House of Representatives and senators, the organic law on political parties, the organic law on the voting in a referendum and the law on the election of members of local assemblies or local administrators and shall be the political- party registrar.

I can't be bothered to search for English translations of all those organic laws.

Thanks Plus, I don't know what I'm looking for to be quite honest. Where it says something in one place it seems to say the opposite in another. I guess I was just trying to get some clarification.

Section 315 for instance "In the case where the office of a member of the House of Representatives becomes vacant for any reason whatsoever, the House shall consist of its remaining members". That would suggest that if it was vacant because the member passed away or one was not elected, the house would just consist of less members until the situation was rectified. and

Section 155 "At a sitting of the House of Representatives ... the presence of not less than one-half of the total number of the existing members ... is required to constitute a quorum, ...., the House of Representatives ... may otherwise prescribe a quorum in the rules of procedure." which would indicate that less than 250 could constitute a quorum, otherwise it would say 250 member to constitute a quorum.

Section 98 that you quote also includes at the end "In the case where the office of a member of the House of Representatives becomes vacant for any reason and an election of a member of the House of Representatives has not been held to fill the vacancy, the House of Representatives shall consist of the existing members of the House". This too looks like you can convene with less than the 500 members but you would have revolving 45 day elections until the electors finally got together and voted for anybody just to stop the madness.

I can't be bothered looking up organic laws either and my Thai is too poor to even attempt it in Thai.

[jdinasia]

Amazing aint it?

That the rules to convene Parlaiment are not the same as the rules for operating Parlaiment?! Astounding! (but then again ... to expect someone to understand a complex thing when they can't even get what does or does not constitute a democracy ... not really surprising after all)

[thedude]

news flash, its all about money folks. the democrats are not running because they dont have enough funds, plain and simple.

they have failed to collect enough money under the thaksin dominated government. at least if it were a coalition (ah, the good old days) they would have had their hands in the cookie jar too.

So , because they're not corrupt or in league with TRT, this is somehow WRONG ?

they reason that under the worst case scenario, the elections go ahead and trt is re-elected, this would at least lead to real issues of legitimacy for trt after the elections. this would buy them time and hopefully, resources.

Sounds sensible to me

in the meantime, they wait for the trt to fight it out with the PAD. if violence breaks out (something that some PAD extremists are spoiling for) , a royal intervention would force thaksin to step down anyway, leaving the boycott parties a clean sheet and smelling like roses.

Which also sounds very sensible, from their point of view.

my sources tell me that Banharn spent 4 nights negotiating with Thaksin recently, but things fell apart because he wanted Thaksin to fund 400 Chart Thai candidates and the 'price' was too high.

Ah yes, the famous 'private visit to an old friend', yet another Thaksin spin.

Good post. The opposition political parties are boycotting for survival.

And this is an unworldly, ignoble or undemocratic objective, in some way ? They MUST survive - to be able to fight another day.

Even if you gave the opposition the freedom to make any election rules they wanted and appoint their own election watchdogs, they would never agree to any fair election because they have no chance of ever winning the majority vote (although maybe if the election were limited to the elite they might).

Q. Why not give them a fair election then - to test whether this is true ?

A. Why risk a fair election, when you can win a rigged one, for certain ?

And to hel_l with democracy.

Ricardo, i'm glad you find the democrats' strategy sensible and defensible. i hope it helps you understand my point that all political parties are inherently corrupt in thailand. you need lots of money to attain power and to stay in power. furthermore, the process of gaining power and the purpose of gaining power have become inextricably tied. its all about the money and the influence it gains in protecting fortunes, and its why people choose to enter politics, it is the grand prize.

does it then matter if one party is in a 'bigger league' compared to another? corruption is corruption, what makes you think the democrats wouldn't choose to enter the big leagues given half a chance? if you look at the democrat leaders, they are a bunch of rich kids from powerful families, families who have been around long enough to know that their long term wealth depends on at least 1 member of their offspring being in power in each generation. if you see how these families inter-marry, and how they have cross holdings, it will become abundantly clear to you why and how they jostle for power. its not black and white mate.

this is the fundamental reason why the monarchy doesn't intervene in politics, its all about personal conflict and about one powerful faction moving in for the grand prize against another. HM is above all of this petty fighting and greed. he only cares that the parties involved do not cross the line and shed the blood of his people. his bottom line is very clear, and if its not already clear, they are broadcasting the 92 conflict again on t.v. to remind those involved.

why don't people question sonthi's motives, particularly since he was once thaksin's ally? why don't people see that politicians are necessarily disingenuous? people drop out of alliance with TRT not because they all suddenly see through him and wanted to come clean. gimme a break. most of these people know that they have dropped out of the circle of power and will not make it past the re-elections, its better to leave now and use the opposition as the excuse. thaksin doesn't care, they are not on his main party list anyway.

coming back to sonthi, i believe his opposition stems from the 3 billion baht of debt which he was in the midst of 'restructuring', using the influence of his KTB buddy. some will recall how the BOT governor MR Pridiyathorn (who incidentally is not TRT but closely linked to ex-PM Anand Panyarachun) was trying to sack the KTB management in late 2004 due to alleged mismanagement of its loan portfolio. well sonthi (who at that stage was still pro-thaksin and in fact hosting a thaksin-funded tv program) demanded that thaksin sack the BOT governor so that the KTB management is untouched and his debt will not resurface. for various political reasons, thaksin could not remove MR Pridiyathorn as BOT governor after the 2005 elections. sonthi spat the dummy and started to turn against the PM on his own tv show which thaksin eventually pulled the plug on. the rest is history.

i personally think sonthi has lost a few marbles along the way and has now found himself on a path of no return. why do you think he stepped down from leading the rallies after no one was home to receive his petition and he had to hand it to some army general at 1.30 am. i think the privy council is far too enlightened to entertain him. because sonthi's PAD faction is non-pariamentary and has nothing to lose, this makes them particularly dangerous. this faction wants royal intervention and i fear most that they will stop at nothing to get it. quite by accident i was having lunch last week with an academic who proudly disclosed to me that he was one of the "october movement" activists. clearly emotive in his views, he whispered to me conspiratorially that to achieve the greater cause of democracy, sometimes people need to die along the way. he also said that this was the view shared by some members of his cohort. i doubt if he realises that not only did he not impress me, he got me seriously spooked. i declined to share my own view with him saying that i'm only a foreigner.

once we can get our head around this uncomfortable fact that yes politics really suck in thailand, we quickly realise that what matters most for thailand and its people is that the country continues to grow, that people keep their jobs, that incomes are secure and keep rising, and that there is ultimately peace and harmony. this is why i am for the relatively stable option of elections and a constitutional way forward. thailand has come a long way to recover from the last crisis, we do not want investments to freeze up again and head elsewhere in this critical era of growth. the sensible thing is to let the ruling party complete its term while enabling the opposition to build up enough resources to fight a credible fight the next time round.

Edited March 13, 2006 by thedude

[ColPyat]

clearly emotive in his views, he whispered to me conspiratorially that to achieve the greater cause of democracy, sometimes people need to die along the way. he also said that this was the view shared by some members of his cohort. i doubt if he realises that not only did he not impress me, he got me seriously spooked. being a foreigner, i declined to share my own view.

Excellent post.

And yes, i heard exactly the same views by some of the protest leaders. I was equally spooked. Furthermore, they seem to have no other vision than forcing Thaksin to resign, what comes after, they said, they will think about after he resigned. When i asked if things than might turn out worse, they replied that they'll just have to hope for the best, that they are too busy right now to worry about those things. This truly left me gobsmacked.

[Orion76]

Good points thedude.

Being the PM of Thailand is a tough job and the pay is lousy. Anyone who is going to spend hundreds of millions of baht to get the position is going to expect a return on his investment. Whether it be by taking bribes, collecting pay-offs for broking positions of power, buying and selling plots of land with insider knowledge or modifying laws to suit his business interests.

Replacing one evil with another won't improve anything. The only serious change that will occur is the change of Thailand's status from relatively stable and safe for foreign investment to "politically unstable", with plenty of long term negative influence on investor confidence and the economy.

I hope the Thai Police is good at non lethal riot control and approach any unrest a little more tactful than they did in the south. I think if the PAD is not backing down and things get out of hand after April 2nd the hard-handedness of the government in dealing with rioters will make a big difference to the final outcome.

[Plus]

Good points, but don't take them too far - there are people with integrity even in Thai politics. Look at Prem, Anand, and recently Chuan.

It's true that any political party will try to recoup its investments through corrupt policies, yet I wouldn't put Abhisit in the same league as Taksin. I can't see him stooping so low, not just yet.

Perhaps Shin sale to Singapore is what has untimately undone Taksin. Up until then had been forgiven for all those CTX, car park, and what not little scams. His Shin sale is too big even for the hardened politicians to justify. I just think that Taksin broke an unspoken law of Thai politics - the country comes first, and is being punished for that.

Now Snoh appears as an angel comparing to Taksin. Back in Democrats times he was an outlaw along with Suwat and Newin, and many people cheered when his Democrat couterpart, Sanan, was banned from politics. Back then people grumbled when all these dinosaurs were accepted in TRT, now they look so much more honest than Taksin. How times have changed!

And why blame PAD for having no plans for the future? They aren't going to form the government. Lots of options are flying around and PAD's participation in any talks is limited only to agreeing to seeze the demonstrations, I suspect. From then on it would be caretaker, "unity" governement, independent Constitution Reform panel, new elections - the country will just move on.

Sondhi will get back on TV and will continue making a name for himself by exposing corruption here and there, and if people listen and take actions - what's wrong with that? We have never had that under Taksin.

The major policies and budget disbursement should not be affected, and if politicians meddle less in government mega-projects it will be only better, especially in the long term.

[Orion76]

I don't doubt HM's ability to choose a replacement with integrity but I am skeptical about the integrity of whoever would come after that.

It's interesting that the thing that escalated the whole situation (the sell off of a controlling stake in a large Thai company to a foreign entity) is perfectly acceptable in pretty much every developed country and the accompanying accusations of conflict of interest and debatably legal tax avoidance are considered much less serious in other countries than all the things that are generally tolerated in Thai politics, such as vote buying, power broking and accepting bribes.

I think that this most clearly shows the real motivations of the opposition parties.

[Plus]

Are you sure? Are Prime Ministers of those all pretty much developed countries allowed to own major telecom, satellite, TV, and airline businesses in the first place? Italy's an exception.

Lukamar, I deliberately excluded those references to "vacant" from Constitution quotes. It only unnesessary complicates the issue. "Becomes vacant" means the seat has to be filled first. Quorum is even less relevant - you can't seriously expect all MPs attending all House sessions.

The first session requiring all 500 members is a very reasonable rule - it's the time when the chickens are counted and house gets divided into governement and opposition, and elections of their leaders take place. What if the elections in some 100 constituencies weren't endorsed yet? What if the results of those elections seriously affect the power balance in the Parlament? What if 300 constituencies aren't decided yet?

I believe it's all described in organic laws mentioned in the Constitution, and I don't see the benefit of going into great details on this one at this moment.

Even in Italy:

ROME, March 10 (Xinhuanet) -- Italian Health Minister Francesco Storace resigned on Friday after he was suspected of spying on hispolitical opponents before the regional election last spring.

In recent days Storace has been at the center of a political storm because of the spy scandal.

"The mere suspicion that I could engineer political maneuveringagainst my political opponents makes me sick and indignant," Storace said in a statement.

>>>>>>>>

Do you think anyone from TRT will resign after failed bribing of people to stand in the elections with forged registration papers?

[bulmercke]

On the occasion of the two previous anti-Thaksin rallies at the Royal Plaza, Thaksin "conveniently" found himself, and on the first occasion his family, well and truly outside of Bangkok.

The big protest two weeks ago was, again, no exception to the rule and Thaksin was safely ensconced somewhere up-country.

Tonight sees Thaksin in Isaan yet again.....on the eve of tomorrow's big rally.

His security advisers should be applauded loudly for protecting their "illustrious" leader in such a paternal way.

[britmaveric]

On the occasion of the two previous anti-Thaksin rallies at the Royal Plaza, Thaksin "conveniently" found himself, and on the first occasion his family, well and truly outside of Bangkok.

The big protest two weeks ago was, again, no exception to the rule and Thaksin was safely ensconced somewhere up-country.

Tonight sees Thaksin in Isaan yet again.....on the eve of tomorrow's big rally.

His security advisers should be applauded loudly for protecting their "illustrious" leader in such a paternal way.

Campaigning is smart, unfortunately the small minority of protesters whinging seems to have lost the concept!

[jdinasia]

Hmmm the wealthy running for office? supported by political parties that at their best want to be in power because they think they are the best (and at the worst are looking for personal gain) .... Astounding!

Yes there seems to be a need for some real revamping of the Constitution around elections etc ... and of the EC .... and it would be nice to see the NCCC back!

But simply the people that are calling for Thaksin to get out aren't the ones running for office. They may or may not have axes to grind or financial gain in mind as individuals. But I'd be careful about painting all the leadership of the rallies that way! I personally haven't seen many members of anti-Asoke grubbing after money!

I sure will be hoping that all goes smoothly at the coming rally!

[lukamar]

Amazing aint it?

Sure is. It's amazing how your continue to snipe like a child in a school ground not adding anything meaningful to the discussion but only looking to create problems. Others on this forum who may not agree with each other, still manage to conduct ourselves like adults. Possibly you should take a lesson from that.

[jdinasia]

huh? I think my posts all add soething new or at least re-iterates something that people don't seem to get (unlike the post above!)

To keep that accurate ... has anyone heard anything of a police line being charged or rushed violently during this crisis? I am sure I would have heard about something like that ... but some nutter was spouting off about it in a chat earlier.

Edited March 13, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

NEWS HEADLINE :. DPM Wissanu admits he did not know solution for case where MPs in House of Representatives amout to less than 500

Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu Krea-Ngam (วิษณุ เครืองาม) admitted he did not know the solution for a case where a number of House of Representatives members amounted to less than 500 people at the first House meeting.

Mr. Wissanu spoke on the concerns from many parties about the inability to open the House of Representatives if MPs did not amount to 500 people. Various comments have been expressed on the matter, such as the House would be able to be opened citing the case used with the Senate whereas some parties have argued that the two Houses should not be compared. On this matter, Mr. Wissanu admitted he did not know the solution and the Election Commission would have to send the matter to the Constitutional Court for its judgment.

As for many parties' view that the problem at the moment may prompt the enforcement of article 7 of the Constitution, Mr. Wissanu said this was probably not possible, but he personally did not know how the solution would be.

----- National News Bureau Public Relations Department -----

[sriracha john]

I don't doubt HM's ability to choose a replacement with integrity but I am skeptical about the integrity of whoever would come after that.

It's interesting that the thing that escalated the whole situation (the sell off of a controlling stake in a large Thai company to a foreign entity) is perfectly acceptable in pretty much every developed country and the accompanying accusations of conflict of interest and debatably legal tax avoidance are considered much less serious in other countries than all the things that are generally tolerated in Thai politics, such as vote buying, power broking and accepting bribes.

I think that this most clearly shows the real motivations of the opposition parties.

I hope you found your Buddhism Forum time enlightening, Orion..

As for this issue addressed now, whether the Shin Deal was legal or not remains to be seen if it ever gets properly investigated (admittedly that's a very big IF). Certainly it was the "straw that broke the camel's back" in many people's minds.

Meanwhile:

Auditor-General Jaruvan Maintaka, yesterday said the scale and complexity of graft practices under the Thaksin Shinawatra government were unprecedented. ''The current administration has made corruption and political favouritism legal and it is fair to say that state officials at all levels, whether directly involved in the process or not, have accepted it as a natural phenomenon that no one can do anything about it,'' said Khunying Jaruvan.

Speaking at a seminar on ''Revealing Corrupt Behaviour and Methods'' held by the senate anti-graft committee, Khunying Jaruvan said the government had been very clever in hiding its shady deals behind various committees set up only to serve the purpose of guaranteeing the special favours.

The auditor-general said that in handling various procurement projects the government would appoint what were called consultant companies to advise on what to buy, where to buy it and for how much.

A committee was then established to approve the consultants' advice and the permanent secretary of the ministry involved would then act upon the committee's approval.

Khunying Jaruvan said that when the Auditor-General's Office questioned the permanent secretaries about such irregular purchases, they defended themselves by saying that the committees were the ones who approved the deals.

The committees, when questioned, claimed they were acting on the advice of the so-called independent consultants, while the consultants said they only gave suggestions and the ministries did not necessary have to act upon any or all of their suggestions.

''Policy corruption occurs in countries where the administrative power has taken precedence over the legislative power and the investigative power,'' said Khunying Jaruvan.

-BP

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