Tax Return/refund At New Job Didn't Happen This Time

[Rolo Tomazi]

I went to the tax office and expected a tax return or refund since that was the case the last time I started teaching on May 1. That was in 2008 and I got back most of the taxes that were withheld from my paycheck. I was under the impression that since I worked only for eight months last year it was below a certain amount that gets taxed.

This time I got nothing back. Maybe I'm lucky I didn't have to pay but I wonder why I didn't get anything back. Have the tax rules changed?

I am on an 11-month contract (I don't get paid in April) and receive 28,200 baht after taxes (1,200 baht) and insurance (600 baht).

The total I was paid last year was 223,000 baht net (there was a special arrangement in May, I don't want to get into too many details).

Does anybody have any specific knowledge about the tax system here in Thailand?

Maybe I should mention I work for an agency but that shouldn't change anything.

[monty]

Ok, so it looks like your salary before taxes is a round 30000 Baht.

You worked 8 months for a total of 240,000 Baht.

You can deduct 60,000 in expenses and a 30000 allowance.

You can also deduct your social security payments.

Which will bring you under the 150,000 Baht tax free treshold.

You should receive all the tax witheld from your salary!

Any bit above this 150,000 Baht (up to 500,000) is taxed at 10%.

[culicine]

As an aside, when I processed my taxes, I was taxed at 20% as my taxable salary exceeded 500K. However, this is the 'old' tax rate. I thought the new tax rate for 500K-1M was 15% now. Is the government not using the new rate for the last financial year?

[monty]

As an aside, when I processed my taxes, I was taxed at 20% as my taxable salary exceeded 500K. However, this is the 'old' tax rate. I thought the new tax rate for 500K-1M was 15% now. Is the government not using the new rate for the last financial year?

New tax rate is only effective for 2013 earnings.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Ok, so it looks like your salary before taxes is a round 30000 Baht.

You worked 8 months for a total of 240,000 Baht.

You can deduct 60,000 in expenses and a 30000 allowance.

You can also deduct your social security payments.

Which will bring you under the 150,000 Baht tax free treshold.

You should receive all the tax witheld from your salary!

Any bit above this 150,000 Baht (up to 500,000) is taxed at 10%.

Okay, so I got taxed on 73,000 baht which would be 7,300 baht at 10% and since the deductions were 7 x 1,200 baht = 8,400 baht they called it even. (In May I got 13,000 baht cash.)

[TerryLH]

Your tax form 91 should have shown your gross and all deductions.

"You can deduct 60,000 in expenses..."

Monty,can you explain that?

Thanks,

Terry

[Tywais]

Your tax form 91 should have shown your gross and all deductions.

"You can deduct 60,000 in expenses..."

Monty,can you explain that?

Thanks,

Terry

Here is the tax tables and allowable deductions - Revenue Department 60,000 Baht is the standard deduction allowed for employment. Then you have another 30,000 Baht deduction as personal allowance.

[wayned]

Ok, so it looks like your salary before taxes is a round 30000 Baht.

You worked 8 months for a total of 240,000 Baht.

You can deduct 60,000 in expenses and a 30000 allowance.

You can also deduct your social security payments.

Which will bring you under the 150,000 Baht tax free treshold.

You should receive all the tax witheld from your salary!

Any bit above this 150,000 Baht (up to 500,000) is taxed at 10%.

100% correct. You wages meet the 150000 baht tax free earnings and you should have gotten back all that you paid in. If 1200 baht a month you should have gotten back 9600 baht (1200 x 8 = 9600). Someones taking you to the cleaners.

[monty]

Your tax form 91 should have shown your gross and all deductions."You can deduct 60,000 in expenses..."Monty,can you explain that?Thanks,Terry

You're allowed to deduct 40% of your salary in expenses but with a ceiling of 60000 Baht.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Your tax form 91 should have shown your gross and all deductions."You can deduct 60,000 in expenses..."Monty,can you explain that?Thanks,Terry

You're allowed to deduct 40% of your salary in expenses but with a ceiling of 60000 Baht.

I never deducted anything. I just took the paperwork to the tax office and hope for the best. Ironically I didn't expect to get a return the first time but got one; I expected to get money back this time but didn't.

I still have the greenish 91 form from 2549.which states that I earned 240,000 baht. There also are numbers like 60,000 baht and 180,000 baht and 36,000 baht and 144,000 baht under the numbers 1 to 7. Under 10 it shows 144,000 baht which I guess is my taxable income. Then there's 4,400, 4,000 and 400 under 13, 14 and 15.

This time I didn't get a form, just a receipt for 0,00 baht.

Another teacher who also started on May 1 with me got paid the full 240,000 baht and had to pay something around 1,500 baht, I can ask him today for the exact amount.

In may I was paid by the hour 13,000 baht in cash by the school; I received the full 30,000 baht from the agency for seven months, that's why my total comes to only 223,000 baht.

The agent is also surprised that we didn't get any money back or had to pay some.

Thanks for the info so far, I guess I'll talk to the friendly people at the tax office again.

[monty]

On the revenue department they have the forms in English for download. Exact same layout/numbering as the Thai version.

Likely they did not fill in the part where you declare how much witholding tax has been paid.

Also always a possibilty is that your employer/agency did not pay the witholding tax to the revenue department!

[wayned]

The tax office is not responsible for fileing you tax return, you are! If you have a receipt indicating that your total tax liability is 0.00 that's good. When you went to the tax office what proof did you have of your salary? You shopuld have had a form indicating your total wages for 2012 and that form should have also sowed thhe amount the was deducted for taxes and social security for the year.

As an example, If you worked for 8 months at 30000 baht/ month, your wages would be 240000 baht (8x30000=240000 baht) and you had 1200 bhat/month deducted for taxes and 750 baht/ month for social security.

Left side of form.

Line 1 is your total wages: 240000 baht

2 0

3 240000 baht (line 1-line2)

4 60000 baht (40% of line 1, maximun 60000 baht)

5 0

6 36000 baht ( Amount from line 12 on the right side of the form; line 1 standard deduction 30000 bant = social security tax (30000 +750x6=6000 = 36000)

7 144000 baht (line 3 minus lines 4 and 6)

8, 9 10 & 11 0 baht

12 144000 baht (line7 minus 8,9,10 & 11)

13 0 baht ( your have a receipt showing this, you don't have to pay any taxes unless it's over 150000 baht)

14 9600 baht ( Ththe amount of tax that was deducted from your wages, should be on the form stating your wages; 1220x8=9600)

15 9600 baht ( amount of tax refund that you shoul get: line14 minus line 13 (9600-0=9600)

If you file and sign the form correctly and your employeer did pay the taxes withheld to the tax breau then you shpuld receive a check sent to the address on the form sometime in late Aprril or May. The form that you took to the tax office should list not only your wages but exactly what was withheld.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Thanks for the extensiv info there, wayned. Besides the 750 baht for ss all numbers make sense to me, my agent deducted 600 b ss.

I took the statement my agent supplied which is in Thai, all I remember is that my total was correctly listed as 210,000 b plus 13,000 cash. There was another figure on the paper, I think it was 3,600 baht, so the total may have been 226,600.

Of course I know that I have to file a tax return but I didn't bother because I expected things would work the same as before.

You rote that if I "have a receipt indicating that your total tax liability is 0.00 that's good" I guess it is since I don't have to pay any.

But the question remains: why didn't I get some dosh back?

Guess I'll find out today.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Where on this 91 form do I find the amount of taxes paid?

I assume on the lower right, # 11. Is that right?

Maybe the first thing I ask is if they have a form in English, btu I'm in Songkhla, I doubt it.

And I don't think anybody at the tax office speaks English well enough to explain it to me.

Heck, when it comes to taxes I often don't understand plain English! :-)

[Tywais]

Where on this 91 form do I find the amount of taxes paid?

I assume on the lower right, # 11. Is that right?

Maybe the first thing I ask is if they have a form in English, btu I'm in Songkhla, I doubt it.

And I don't think anybody at the tax office speaks English well enough to explain it to me.

Heck, when it comes to taxes I often don't understand plain English! :-)

PND91 english (pdf)

[puchooay]

Sounds to me that you paid some tax but your agency "forgot" to forward it on to the tax office.

[Rolo Tomazi]

Thanks for that quick post with the English 91 form! I took off after posting my last message, didn't expect a response that soon.

In the tax office they tried to print me an English form but they uldn't connect to the internet.

I was told that 13) shows how much taxes I have to pay, 14) is ho much already paid in monthly payments and 15) tells ho much I have to pay.

In this case I paid 400 baht in 2549 - funny, i remember that I got money back!

[culicine]

As an aside, when I processed my taxes, I was taxed at 20% as my taxable salary exceeded 500K. However, this is the 'old' tax rate. I thought the new tax rate for 500K-1M was 15% now. Is the government not using the new rate for the last financial year?

New tax rate is only effective for 2013 earnings.

Thanks, for this new tax year then:)...it's strange as they have made many other changes though, but not the tax rates.

[TerryLH]

Thanks gents.

Terry

[wayned]

Thanks for the extensiv info there, wayned. Besides the 750 baht for ss all numbers make sense to me, my agent deducted 600 b ss.

I took the statement my agent supplied which is in Thai, all I remember is that my total was correctly listed as 210,000 b plus 13,000 cash. There was another figure on the paper, I think it was 3,600 baht, so the total may have been 226,600.

Of course I know that I have to file a tax return but I didn't bother because I expected things would work the same as before.

You rote that if I "have a receipt indicating that your total tax liability is 0.00 that's good" I guess it is since I don't have to pay any.

But the question remains: why didn't I get some dosh back?

Guess I'll find out today.

The SS is the SS insurance paid each month for your government medical insurance. The amount is 1500 baht/month and is normally split 50/50 between you and your employer so that's why I used 750 baht. I worked for an agency a long time ago for 9 months, they deducted taxes and SS but never paid them to the tax Bureau. Some agencies are known for this but the government just turns it's head the other way, or is it their hand? Have you ever received a government medical card? You should have received it 90 days after you first starting paying in to the system.

[Rolo Tomazi]

wayned, I got the medical card and 600 baht are deducted every month. I get paid evey month on time so there is a certain amount of trust, even though other teachers told me that there were some problems ith other teachers.

According to the talk with the tax officer yesterday I had to pay 4,400 baht on 240,000 baht in 2006. 500 baht were taken out each month , 8x500=4000, and I had to pay the remmaining 400 baht at the office.

What I don't understand is that this year I made slightly less than 240,000 baht, but 1,200 baht were taken out at least seven times (the first month I was paid in cash by the school). So I paid at least 8,400 baht in taxes (plus taxes on the 13K cash for May), of which 4,000 should be returned.

According to some posts above I should get all back since my taxable total is under 150,000. 4,000 baht ould be fine, but I got nothing back.

Something's fishy - it's not the money, I just want to kno what's going on!

Thanks for you help so far.

[monty]

wayned, I got the medical card and 600 baht are deducted every month. I get paid evey month on time so there is a certain amount of trust, even though other teachers told me that there were some problems ith other teachers.

According to the talk with the tax officer yesterday I had to pay 4,400 baht on 240,000 baht in 2006. 500 baht were taken out each month , 8x500=4000, and I had to pay the remmaining 400 baht at the office.

What I don't understand is that this year I made slightly less than 240,000 baht, but 1,200 baht were taken out at least seven times (the first month I was paid in cash by the school). So I paid at least 8,400 baht in taxes (plus taxes on the 13K cash for May), of which 4,000 should be returned.

According to some posts above I should get all back since my taxable total is under 150,000. 4,000 baht ould be fine, but I got nothing back.

Something's fishy - it's not the money, I just want to kno what's going on!

Thanks for you help so far.

Normally you get a copy of your pnd91.

If possible, scan and post here after blotting out your personal details such as name and tax ID...

[wayned]

If your total taxable income was less than 150000 baht as I outlined above, you should get everything back that was deducted from your salary for taxes, 1220 x7=8400 baht. You will not get back the SS payment of 600 baht per month. The paper that you took to the tax office when they computed your tax of 0.0 baht should have identified exactly what taxes you paid in. Didn't you keep a copy? If the tax office filled in a pnd 91 for you they should have given you a copy. Did they give you a copy? Did you sign anything? I would fill in another pnd91 and file it yourself showing that you are owed the 8400 baht. If the tax office receives two claims for the same individual they will contact you. It happened to me once when we claimed my wife's parents and her brother claimed them too.

[Rolo Tomazi]

To answer your questions: I didn't keep a copy of the single sheet of paper the agency supplied me with. My fault! I assume the tax office filled in a pnd91 form but I didn't actually see them do it. I did not get a copy. I didn't sign anything.

I was thinking of filling in another pnd91 form in English but after talking things over with the other teachers it turned out that the agency did nit pay 1,200 in taxes but only 1,000 baht, keeping 200 to pay the accountant. They're making good money off me and then I have to pay for their paperwork!

That's why the tax office didn't return any money, they received 7,000 baht and since I didn't claim any deductions I am taxable for 72,000 baht at 10% so they called it even.

I assume that in 2006 the school provided paperwork for the deductions since I did not file anything. I don't think the agency will supply me with that papeprwork or charge me for it, so it's not worth it for 3,000 baht.

In 2006 I still had to pay 4,400 baht on a total of 144,000 baht after deductions.

[puchooay]

To answer your questions: I didn't keep a copy of the single sheet of paper the agency supplied me with. My fault! I assume the tax office filled in a pnd91 form but I didn't actually see them do it. I did not get a copy. I didn't sign anything.

I was thinking of filling in another pnd91 form in English but after talking things over with the other teachers it turned out that the agency did nit pay 1,200 in taxes but only 1,000 baht, keeping 200 to pay the accountant. They're making good money off me and then I have to pay for their paperwork!

That's why the tax office didn't return any money, they received 7,000 baht and since I didn't claim any deductions I am taxable for 72,000 baht at 10% so they called it even.

I assume that in 2006 the school provided paperwork for the deductions since I did not file anything. I don't think the agency will supply me with that papeprwork or charge me for it, so it's not worth it for 3,000 baht.

In 2006 I still had to pay 4,400 baht on a total of 144,000 baht after deductions.

Who told you that? Your agent?

The piece of paper that you received from the tax office showing 0.00 means that you paid ZERO in tax. If you paid 7000baht then that is what it would have said.

The money is with your agent. From another thread that you are on, talking about the agent and school making you redundant, I think you already know what they are like.

[Rolo Tomazi]

To answer your questions: I didn't keep a copy of the single sheet of paper the agency supplied me with. My fault! I assume the tax office filled in a pnd91 form but I didn't actually see them do it. I did not get a copy. I didn't sign anything.

I was thinking of filling in another pnd91 form in English but after talking things over with the other teachers it turned out that the agency did nit pay 1,200 in taxes but only 1,000 baht, keeping 200 to pay the accountant. They're making good money off me and then I have to pay for their paperwork!

That's why the tax office didn't return any money, they received 7,000 baht and since I didn't claim any deductions I am taxable for 72,000 baht at 10% so they called it even.

I assume that in 2006 the school provided paperwork for the deductions since I did not file anything. I don't think the agency will supply me with that papeprwork or charge me for it, so it's not worth it for 3,000 baht.

In 2006 I still had to pay 4,400 baht on a total of 144,000 baht after deductions.

Who told you that? Your agent?

The piece of paper that you received from the tax office showing 0.00 means that you paid ZERO in tax. If you paid 7000baht then that is what it would have said.

The money is with your agent. From another thread that you are on, talking about the agent and school making you redundant, I think you already know what they are like.

I don't really follow you there, puchooay. The receipt shows that I had zero baht to pay. If I hadn't paid any taxes I would have had to pay 10% on 72,600 baht since I didn't have any deductions.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Rolo Tomazi

[wayned]

I agree, the receipt that you received from the tax department showed 0.00 tax owed and you didn't sign the form which is required. If the agency held back 200 baht, so be it. I would fill in another pnd1 form as I outlined above showing only the 7000 baht. You'll have to fill in the Thai form, the English form is just an example anf they won't accept it. Lay them side by side, the numbers match.

Left side:

Line 1: Your total salary

4: 60000 baht

6: 34200 baht

13: 0

14: 7000 bahtAnd do the math.

Right side:

Line 1: 30000 baht - personal exemption

?: 4200 baht - SS payments (600x7=4200) I don't know the line number since I don't have the English form ask someone

12: 34200 - this is the amount that you put in line 6 on the left.

Sign the form and refile it. You should get the entire 7000 baht back. You didn't fill in or sign the original form and if the tax office filled it in for you they would have filled it out correcly with the information that was oin the paper that you took to them. Sounds like somebody is telling you a "Thai lie". The tax office wouldn't <deleted> you over, they have no reason too.

[puchooay]

To answer your questions: I didn't keep a copy of the single sheet of paper the agency supplied me with. My fault! I assume the tax office filled in a pnd91 form but I didn't actually see them do it. I did not get a copy. I didn't sign anything.

I was thinking of filling in another pnd91 form in English but after talking things over with the other teachers it turned out that the agency did nit pay 1,200 in taxes but only 1,000 baht, keeping 200 to pay the accountant. They're making good money off me and then I have to pay for their paperwork!

That's why the tax office didn't return any money, they received 7,000 baht and since I didn't claim any deductions I am taxable for 72,000 baht at 10% so they called it even.

I assume that in 2006 the school provided paperwork for the deductions since I did not file anything. I don't think the agency will supply me with that papeprwork or charge me for it, so it's not worth it for 3,000 baht.

In 2006 I still had to pay 4,400 baht on a total of 144,000 baht after deductions.

Who told you that? Your agent?

The piece of paper that you received from the tax office showing 0.00 means that you paid ZERO in tax. If you paid 7000baht then that is what it would have said.

The money is with your agent. From another thread that you are on, talking about the agent and school making you redundant, I think you already know what they are like.

I don't really follow you there, puchooay. The receipt shows that I had zero baht to pay. If I hadn't paid any taxes I would have had to pay 10% on 72,600 baht since I didn't have any deductions.

The receipt is a Tax Return, and show how much money you paid for the year. That means you paid nothing.

The Tax office are not going to say "Ok you owe us 7200 but 7000 will do?" Are they? No.

[wayned]

The receipet is NOT a tax return, it only shows how much taxes that you have to pay for the year. In his case it is zero. IT DOES NOT SHOW HOW MUCH HE HAS OVERPAID AND THE AMOUNT THAT SHOULD BE REFUNDED. THAT AMOUNT IS ON THE PND1 FORM ON LINE 15. The amount on line 15 should be refunded via check to the individual by post at the address on the front of the form. The receipt that is provided is a requirement that you show that you do not owe any taxes when you renew your visa.

[puchooay]

"it only shows how much taxes that you have to pay for the year. In his case it is zero"

Quite correct. Zero tax was required for this year. Not 7000.

I am not in the habit of saying things if I don't know what I am talking about.

I have had these receipts for the last few years and they all show tax that has been paid, or not as maybe. The tax office that I use stopped giving me the forms a few years ago. All I get now are the receipts to show to immigration.

Like I said before the tax office are not going to say "you owe us 7200 but 7000 will do". He paid zero tax because he was under the threshold. Look at the other thread about end of term. His agents have been playing games. They have his 7000.

If you answer me in capital letters again, which shows a rather pedantic and churlish character, I will have no option than to report you to the Mods.

Edited March 16, 2013 by puchooay