Thailand To Spend $68 Bn On Transport Projects

[webfact]

Thailand to spend $68 bn on transport projects

BANGKOK, March 19, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand's cabinet on Tuesday approved a plan to spend $68 billion on a high-speed railway and other transportation mega projects to drive the nation's economic development.

Under the seven-year scheme, 200 high-speed trains will whizz across the kingdom on four lines linking the capital Bangkok with the north, south and east of the country.

"The projects, which will focus on electric trains and dual tracks, will completely change Thailand, and they will start next year," said Transport Minister Chatchai Sitthipan.

The high-speed rail lines will be built in two stages and eventually link Bangkok with the Malaysian and Lao borders, as well as the northern city of Chiang Mai, the seaside resort of Pattaya and areas further to the east.

The new trains will be capable of travelling at up to 250 kilometres (155 miles) per hour, reducing travel time from Bangkok to northern Thailand to four hours from 12 hours, a cabinet document said.

The average speed of passenger trains on Thailand's existing national network is 60 kilometres per hour.

Under the new plan, the government aims to increase the average speed to between 100 and 120 kilometres per hour. A metropolitan rail network is also envisaged for Bangkok.

The government plans to borrow 2.0 trillion baht ($68 billion) to fund the project, subject to parliamentary approval, as part of its efforts to avoid the "middle income trap" of slowing economic growth.

The finance ministry said it hoped the investment would boost Thailand's annual economic growth by one percentage point on average between 2013 and 2020 and create 500,000 new jobs.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-03-19

[BrianCR]

The finance ministry said it hoped the investment would boost Thailand's annual economic growth by one percentage point on average between 2013 and 2020 and create 500,000 new jobs. - They better start importing the Burmese work force as, we are having enough trouble getting staff now, never mind with an additional 500,000 jobs!

[LuckyLew]

spend spend spend

when will the bubble burst

No gov't can continue this pace of spending

sooner or latter ... probably sooner ... bubble gonna go kaboom

[dcutman]

Picture puzzle:

Try and identify the difference between the two pictures.

[nevets]

Better to spend $68bn on educating the children of Thailand , and i dont meen the HISO children i meen the other 90%,

[bigbamboo]

And that's Numberwang!

Love dcutman's post above but shouldn't that sign read as a warning:

STOP!

CORRUPTION.

Edited March 19, 2013 by bigbamboo

[Huayrat]

Mr Lie first on the pic,, will never be forgotten or believed again for anything he says

Edited March 19, 2013 by metisdead
: Font

[davejones]

spend spend spend

when will the bubble burst

No gov't can continue this pace of spending

sooner or latter ... probably sooner ... bubble gonna go kaboom

This is investment, which is totally different to the kind of welfare spending that the West borrows for. Borrowing for investment is mostly good. Borrowing to pay people to sit around (like they do in UK, USA, EU) is always a lost cause.

What do you suggest - that Thailand stays as a developing country? This is great news for Thailand. The government should be commended for this move.

Edited March 19, 2013 by davejones

[tangcoral]

If the ticket cost of high-speed trains to the north is the same as air flights as in most other countries are, it would be hard to imagine how they can get bus travelers to cough up more dough.

[IsaanUSA]

If the ticket cost of high-speed trains to the north is the same as air flights as in most other countries are, it would be hard to imagine how they can get bus travelers to cough up more dough.

I have no idea what sites we can or cannot link to, but there are better forums out there regarding transportation in Thailand with serious conversations going on. ThaiVisa is mainly a place for people just to throw out personal comments in my opinion.

Anyways, this is copy/pasted from another website dated Dec 7 2012

Bangsue to Chiang Mai with the distance of 677.67 km at the rate of 2.10 - 2.50 Baht implied that the ticket rates should be 1423.11 - 1694.18 Baht - not at 1200 Baht as claimed by the News Anchors ... The rate that closed to 1200 Baht may be the section Bangsue to Nong Khai via Ban Phachi with the distance of 578.86 km at the rate of 2.10 - 2.50 Baht which implied that the ticket rates should be 1215.40 - 1446.90 Baht -

December 19 2012 says:

For the passenger fee at 2.50 Baht per km, Section from BKK to Chiang Mai (685 km) will be at 1712.50 Baht while the section from BKK to Phitsanuloke (328 km) will be at 820 Baht per and the section from BKK to Nong Khai (615 km) will be at 1537.5 Baht while the section from BKK to Nakhon Ratchasima (256 km) will be at 640 Baht - cheaper than low cost airline

And the money breakdown:

Government going to make internal loan of 2 trillion - 1.18 trillion Baht will go for both mass transit system

For the case of High Speed Train Networks according to borrowing Act

BKK (Bangsue Central) - Chiang Mai - 6 Years at 229 Billion Baht

BKK (Bangsue Central) - Nakhon ratchasima - 5 year at 96 billion Baht

BKK (Bangsue Central) - Hua hin - 5 year at 82 billion Baht

Suvannabhumi - Chonburi - Pattaya - Rayong (Eastern Extension of Airport Link) 5 year at 72 Billion Baht

This section is to be financed by loan of 480 billion Baht

For the case of mass transits networks according to borrowing Act

Rangsit - Thammasart rangsit campus - 4 year - 5.2 billion Baht

Bangsue central - Phayathai - Makkasan Center - 5 year - 36 billion Baht

Taling Chan Junction - Salaya - 5 year - 9.9 billion Baht

Taling Chan Junction - Siriraj - 3 year - 4.2 billion Baht

Airport Link Extension Phyathai - Bangsue - Donmueang - 6 year - 32 billion Baht

This section is to be financed by loan of 89 billion Baht

The way to pay the loan will be

Year 2013: 18.270 Billion Baht

Year 2014: 138.058 Billion Baht

Year 2015: 262.141 Billion Baht

Year 2016: 294.484 Billion Baht

Year 2017: 261.176 Billion Baht

Year 2018: 175.217 Billion Baht

Year 2019: 36.345 Billion Baht

Year 2020: No loan

Total 1,185.692 Billion Baht

Mods, feel free to edit or delete my post if this post is not within the guidelines

[Phatcharanan]

I have no idea what sites we can or cannot link to, but there are better forums out there regarding transportation in Thailand with serious conversations going on. ThaiVisa is mainly a place for people just to throw out personal comments in my opinion.

Are you suggesting we get together and have like a 'group comment'?

By default............forums are places for personal comments.

As a wild guess, you never came to Thailand due to its reputation as the hub of SE Asian comedy. Am I right?

Edited March 19, 2013 by Phatcharanan

[Robby nz]

If as it seems from this article the whole 2.2 tr is to be spent on the high speed thing then it would appear that the funding for the normal rail double tracking will have to come from some other borrowing.

So where does this come in (from) and what is the priority, a high speed people mover of double tracking to improve goods haulage?

[Locationthailand]

Nice idea - but what about standard economics - what about 'demand'?

[me313]

I talk to many Thai women who moved from Isaan to Phuket to get the meager jobs doing massage and prostitution on the side (sorry, it's not such a hidden fact). They spend 14 hours going on a bus to Bangkok and then onward to their villages in Isaan. They can't get jobs they say back in their part of the country, so they must resort to leaving children and family behind and selling themselves for such low wages. This is one disenfranchised group in Thailand that should at least be addressed and helped, and by providing high speed rail to these areas so these people can begin and attempt to get out of the poverty and prostitution and exploitation, at least the Populist-leaning PM can begin to change the lifestyle of the impoverished in these exploited parts of the Thai population.

[webfact]

Massive loan bill completed
The Nation



Logistics strategies revised; PM vows transparency

BANGKOK: -- The Bt2-trillion infrastructure borrowing bill - which will allow the government to raise the entire amount by end-2020 and require it to clear the debt in 50 years - is now ready for parliamentary screening.

In the draft bill, approved by the Cabinet yesterday, the investment amount remains unchanged but the budgets allocated under three national logistics strategies have been slightly revised. Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said in a document to Cabinet the revision followed screenings and opinions from related parties, after scrutiny of the projects.

"Revisions [of the draft approved by Cabinet on February 27] were made in consultation with the Finance Ministry, the National Economic and Social Development Board and the Budget Bureau," he said.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said most of the loans would be obtained from domestic sources, adding that the Finance Ministry - entirely in charge of the borrowing - would work out the loan conditions in detail. She was not specific on the portion of domestic funding.

The borrowing bill has been heavily criticised by academics, economists and opposition politicians, who expressed worries over public debt. Despite the Public Debt Management Office's hint that the borrowing could raise the country's public debt to 60 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP), the government said in the bill that the ratio would not exceed 50 per cent.

Yingluck insisted yesterday she could fully defend the projects, specifications, and the bill itself during parliamentary scrutiny, and ensured the public about the transparency of these projects.

It is stated in the bill that within 120 days of the end of each fiscal year, the Cabinet would reveal the latest status of the investment and project evaluation to Parliament.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut yesterday said many conditions associated with the bill were suspicious, like the repayment clause. He also criticised Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong's statement that corruption and cheating were possibly associated with the bill. "That's unacceptable," Chavanond said.

A poll by Bangkok University, conducted on March 13-18, showed only 25 per cent of 60 economists preferred the borrowing law to conventional financing. Another 22 per cent indicated they had no worries on the public debt issue, saying the current debt ratio remains low and that investment would create jobs and enhance the country's competitiveness.

Yet, while nearly 90 per cent support the investment as a way to boost competitiveness, 57 per cent said the borrowing law could entail associated problems - increase in public debt, as well as corruption. Some 88 per cent showed low or zero confidence in the government's ability to curb corruption on the projects - while 48 per cent also believed this scheme would see more corruption than other schemes.

Under the bill, the Finance Ministry plans to start repaying the loans in the 11th year. In years 11-20, 10 per cent of the borrowing would be repaid; 20 per cent would be paid in the next 10 years; 30 per cent in the following 10 years; and 40 per cent in the final 10 years.

The bill requires all ministries involved to seek opinions from the NESDB, the Budget Bureau and the Finance Ministry for their projects, before seeking Cabinet approval. They are also required to submit regular updates on the projects.


-- The Nation 2013-03-20

[bender92]

I talk to many Thai women who moved from Isaan to Phuket to get the meager jobs doing massage and prostitution on the side (sorry, it's not such a hidden fact). They spend 14 hours going on a bus to Bangkok and then onward to their villages in Isaan. They can't get jobs they say back in their part of the country, so they must resort to leaving children and family behind and selling themselves for such low wages. This is one disenfranchised group in Thailand that should at least be addressed and helped, and by providing high speed rail to these areas so these people can begin and attempt to get out of the poverty and prostitution and exploitation, at least the Populist-leaning PM can begin to change the lifestyle of the impoverished in these exploited parts of the Thai population.

Add short time rooms on the new trains, 2 problems solved at once!

[sirchai]

I know who'll never sit on a high speed train in this country.

And the educational system will nver change. --

Edited March 20, 2013 by sirchai

[Thereisnoif]

Better to spend $68bn on educating the children of Thailand , and i dont meen the HISO children i meen the other 90%,

You men the other 99.9 %

[Chrisswe]

GOOD for Thailand development and future !!

[bluedog]

I can think of better ways to spend money than high speed trains which most folks will not be able to afford. Starting with putting electricity and communication lines that run underground rather than the unsightly mess they have now, every time a storm blows through all the electric goes off. Well it did on Monday when the whole of Khon Kaen was blacked out, or every time some idiot has an accident and knocks the pole over. Better road system so that there is not just one road there and one back like there is now and all and sundry trying to travel on the same road that goes through every town and village on the way. There are 7.5 million cars in Bangkok that are using a road system that was built for 2 million and the BIB operating the traffic lights as they pulled the plug on the automatic sytem that was installed at great expense with tax pates money, probably was too efficient and they were worried about losing their jobs. TIT, they all talking about ASEAN but for sure Thailand will be left behind by their neighbours as has been the case in the past. Get rid of the corruption and then maybe things will start to improve.

[dcutman]

Under the bill, the Finance Ministry plans to start repaying the loans
in the 11th year. In years 11-20, 10 per cent of the borrowing would be
repaid; 20 per cent would be paid in the next 10 years; 30 per cent in
the following 10 years; and 40 per cent in the final 10 years.

So I used this loan calculator http://money.guardian.co.uk/calculator/form/0,,603119,00.html

It is hard to calculate what the total interest payed will be at the end of 50 years with the proposed payment plan. But if the government started paying principle and interest the first year, for 50 years, the total interest on that Bt2.2 trillion would be just shy of Bt2.5 trillion . With their payment plan I would guess the total interest payment closer to Bt4 trillion over that 50 year period.

Edited March 20, 2013 by dcutman

[Moruya]

The Chinese CRH train developed around 2004 has a top speed of 250kph - coincidence?

[slk350]

Bluedog !!!!!!!

you are right,

bevore there spend lots of money on new transport systems,there schould get the roads in order .I drove yesterday on a motorbike from Mahasahrakham to Nong Khai. Normaly when you drive you keep a eye on the traffic,but in Thailand this is impossible,here you have to look for bloddy pottholes all the time. Thai people have no idea about maintenence , ther make or build something ( this will last forever ) i wonder what the high speed trains will look after 5 year's.

[Baerboxer]

spend spend spend

when will the bubble burst

No gov't can continue this pace of spending

sooner or latter ... probably sooner ... bubble gonna go kaboom

This is investment, which is totally different to the kind of welfare spending that the West borrows for. Borrowing for investment is mostly good. Borrowing to pay people to sit around (like they do in UK, USA, EU) is always a lost cause.

What do you suggest - that Thailand stays as a developing country? This is great news for Thailand. The government should be commended for this move.

Unfortunately you missed the bit out about the corruption and scams which will mean at least 20% goes into back pockets. Contractors will then skim the rest with shoddy cheap materials, work standards and cutting corners.

Would you trust this government with money? Research how many have or are facing corruption issues.

[JayTC]

It'd be nice to take sometime to improve education system in this country. Unfortunately, most of Thai politicians cannot wait that long.

Because this will be 10-20 year project. When those smart kids grow up, they will "think" and "create" many good things for Thailand.

Not sugar coated BS projects like tablet givaway and other many mega projects.... sign

[Baerboxer]

I talk to many Thai women who moved from Isaan to Phuket to get the meager jobs doing massage and prostitution on the side (sorry, it's not such a hidden fact). They spend 14 hours going on a bus to Bangkok and then onward to their villages in Isaan. They can't get jobs they say back in their part of the country, so they must resort to leaving children and family behind and selling themselves for such low wages. This is one disenfranchised group in Thailand that should at least be addressed and helped, and by providing high speed rail to these areas so these people can begin and attempt to get out of the poverty and prostitution and exploitation, at least the Populist-leaning PM can begin to change the lifestyle of the impoverished in these exploited parts of the Thai population.

Do you really believe what you write? You "talk to" many prostitutes and they all have such a sad story.

Do you really think the current government are planning all of this to help alleviate poverty in rural Thailand? How many impoverished people do you think will be able to afford the train fares?

Maybe spending the money on a decent eductation system first might be a better start. But then people might start to ask questions and realize when they are being lied too.

[remobb]

Have they got permission from the tuk tuk and taxi drivers????

[belg]

so nice 350 billion rice scam x 7 years = about the same that they want to borrow

5 cents suggestion : stop the rice scam and there is nothing to be borrowed at all

to simple, right ?

what is the economical worth of having trains shipping goods trough the country? will they tax each passage (with 307% tax imports?)

[IMA_FARANG]

I think I said this before, but I'll say it again.

Borrowing per se is not bad for governments.

Borrowing for infrastructure creation that creates JOBS is a good thing (Singapore in the 1950's and 1960's is a good example. They used the borrowed money to grow new infrastructure that produced economic growth and new JOBS).

Borowing just to repay the interest bearing loans of already rich foriegn investors and not developing your own country with that borrowed money (i.e. Greece, Portugal, or Spain) is NOT a good thing.

Now IF the Thai government uses the borrowed money wisely to develop a high speeed infrastructure transportation systen THEN Thailand is well situated to act as a place where people and goods pass through to other Asean countries.

That could generate a lot of revenue and spur growth and new jobs in Thailand.

One caveat however, that requires a forward looking and non-corrupt government that will make intelligent use of that borrowed money.

Question: Is that actually possible in Thailand?

I'm not optomistic on that point.

Edited March 20, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[NoBrainer]

This is a pretty ambitious project for a government that can't even get busses running on Phuket for fear of Mafia attacks.

Fear of attacks on Phuket's new airport buses delays launch date

Airport Express 1, 2 and 3 ready for launch, but fear of violent attacks by tuk-tuk and taxi drivers has given leading

Phuket officials a moment of pause.