Cyprus: Big Depositors Could Lose Up To 60 Percent

[midas]

No doubt many countries are in and have been in big monetary trouble for some time, especially in the Euro zone. To suggest, however, that the US and UK banking system are conspiring to convert deposits to equity or debt holdings and take our money is ridiculous. I can think of multiple FTC/SEC/FDIC or banking regs this would violate in the US. Don't know about UK, but I would suprised if they did not have similar regulaitons.

Look, if you feel safer not using banks and putting money into tin cans and burying it in your yard, more power to you. Do what you think is best for you. The moral of the story here is you cannot get good returns with zero risk and if you lay with dogs, your gonna get flees. Unfortunately, many innocent people just using the bank for legitimate purposes got burned.

I have lost count of the number of arbitrations and securities lawsuits I have handled since 2008 because people reallocated most if not all of their portfolios to funds heavily weighted in CMOs, CDOs, and junk bonds. Yeah, these funds were providing 18% annual returns and etc., but they were extremely risky investments. People got greedy and took a big hit.

" To suggest, however, that the US and UK banking system are conspiring to convert deposits to equity or debt holdings and take our money is ridiculous "

Yeah well I am sure many Americans in February or

March 1933 would have also considered the possibility of their personal gold holdings

being confiscated by the US government as being equally ridiculous.........only

to find in April of that year it became a reality..

A lot has changed since 1933 and government and Fed did the miraculous and bailed banks out in 2008. I represented 2 large banks and was involved in rerating and TARP process. I saw government trying to help people save not just US, but world banking system. US could have easily done what you are or that article suggests in 2008 and 2009, but it didn't and banks paid every cent back. Some small bank could not absorb losses, but those were handled appropriately.

Perhapsi chose to place my faith in certain things, but we pretty much have to function as a society. If BofA and the big 5 go down, trust me . . . We all have very serious problems then. Just not going to happen.

Europe is lagging behind in recovery and we will ultimately see failures. Cannot be avoided. Perhaps need those failures to occur to get recovery in full swing. Too much bad debt on the books. Cyprus though had many compacting factors.

Oh certainly a lot has changed since 1933 and most definitely for the worse in terms of loss of morals, loss of integrity and trust and endemic cronyism and corruption.

The world is now being run by oligarchs comprising “ banksters “ working in collusion with politicians and they won't stop at anything to steal people's assets.

You only have to look at that Jon Corzine fellow who not only got away with $1 billion of investors money, but didn't even face prosecution just because he is a friend of Joe Biden.

And here is the latest joke .... " borrow " my a*se !!

Government Will Borrow From Federal Employee Pension Fund to Avoid Passing Debt Limit

http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/01/15/government-will-borrow-from-federal-employee-pension-fund-to-avoid-passing-debt-limit/

Edited April 3, 2013 by midas

[Scott]

I think we will stick to the situation in Cyprus for this topic.

[Pakboong]

Isn't the need to save the world banking system the crux of the problem. They are privately owned businesses and all govenment needs to do is to make sure they act accordingly. Any attempt by any bank to socialize their losses and privatize their gains should not be merely a violation of a bank regulation but a crime against humanity.

Right now, the whole of Europe is leveraged at 29-1; current banking regulations which are all created by the bankers themselves, IMF permits a 100-1 leveraging. Nobody can sustain that kind of leverage without successful gambling with depositor's money. The depositors/investors pay the bank's gambling losses but do not share proportionately with the winnings if at all.

Fractional reserve banking by a for profit, privately owned central bank creating fiat currency cannot survive indefinitely. History points to an average lifespan of a fiat currency at 40 years. The US Federal Reserve is 100 years old. We are at less than 5 cents on a 1913 dollar and nowhere to go from here.

When money is created as debt, there will always be more debt than money and can only be referred to as a ponzi scheme that has to fail at some point.

As recently as last December, the FDIC and the Bank of England collaborated on a management directive to deal with what they apparently perceive as a bunch of large bank failures. The FDIC and the Bank of England would not generally be concidered contemporaries. Their nearest common denominator would have to be the IMF. More than anything else, these two entities paint a picture of protecting the huge banking oligarchs at the expense of the unaware public. There is seriously no reason for an American to give any thought whatsoever as to what the Bank of England does with bank failures and visa versa but this document suggests otherwise.

[thaibeachlovers]

I think there is a difference between investing your money in a high risk fund and depositing it in a bank. Just who regulates these banks? Who wasn't keeping an eye on this?

As far as i understand they regulate themselves, certainly in the UK. A bit like the mafia regulating on what constitutes organized crime.

The old bloke that was in charge of the Fed before it all turned to poo ( Greenspan ) is on record as saying that he knew it was all going to fall down, but the govt. wouldn't let him do anything about it because everyone was making too much money.

[Pakboong]

I think there is a difference between investing your money in a high risk fund and depositing it in a bank. Just who regulates these banks? Who wasn't keeping an eye on this?

As far as i understand they regulate themselves, certainly in the UK. A bit like the mafia regulating on what constitutes organized crime.

The old bloke that was in charge of the Fed before it all turned to poo ( Greenspan ) is on record as saying that he knew it was all going to fall down, but the govt. wouldn't let him do anything about it because everyone was making too much money.

Perhaps nobody noticed that he became a multi-billionaire for his efforts. Hardly what you would consider a public servant.

[Scott]

If you are referring to Alan Greenspan, he is hardly a billionaire:

" He is not obliged to give exact figures for his wealth but must report within a range. At the top end his portfolio was worth almost $10m at the end of 2000, up from $7m in 1999. At the bottom, it held its own at around $3m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2729410/Greenspan-wealth-grows-by-millions.html

[Potosi]

This information has been published for several days now ... only the little guys got hurt... and it was the EU Commissioners who pushed this on Cyprus... If I had money in any EU controlled bank - I would move it ... If Cyprus can be done this way - so can Spain, Greece - then the dominoes will fall all over Europe...

... Russian oligarchs who still had large deposits in Cyprus likely withdrew most of it last week as Cyprus prepared to stop all unauthorized capital movements. On Monday, Reuters reported a major loophole that large Russian account holders may have used to jump ship while ordinary Cypriots lined up at ATMs to withdraw a few hundred euros: Uniastrum Bank, 80 percent of which is owned by Bank of Cyprus, did not place any restrictions on withdrawals in Russia in the week leading up to the restructuring decision.

Laiki Bank and Bank of Cyprus branches in London did not limit withdrawals that week, either. No one knows exactly how much money has been transferred out of Cyprus, Reuters reported. Moreover, several solvent commercial banks, including a Cyprus subsidiary of state-controlled Russian bank VTB, will be left mostly unaffected by the restructuring, the Christian Science Monitor reported.

An editorial in the Thursday edition of Vedomosti concluded that the Russian authorities' accepted the Cyprus restructuring after it became apparent that mainly medium-sized businesses would suffer losses, not the large investors that are the Kremlin's first priority.

Now an exodus of all remaining Russian business likely is beginning, some in Cyprus say.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/28/russia-support-for-cyprus-seizures-deposits-may-mean-big-money-already-out/#ixzz2P8QBViAd

Foxnews??? You base your opinions on Foxnews??? And you think you should share them with us???

FOXNEWS?

Yes, Foxnews covers situations like this with great accuracy - expecially when backed by news gathering agencies ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-eurozone-cyprus-muddle-insight-idUSBRE92O0TM20130325

I suppose you trust that paragon of virtue MSNBC ... the totally unbaised news reporting cable news outfit / sarcasim off

Apart from commanding the best news resources, you seem to be a man with a keen sense of political developments. Would you agree that the events in Cyprus are part of Obama's masterplan to install a communist world government that's going to take away your guns and bibles?

[F430murci]

This information has been published for several days now ... only the little guys got hurt... and it was the EU Commissioners who pushed this on Cyprus... If I had money in any EU controlled bank - I would move it ... If Cyprus can be done this way - so can Spain, Greece - then the dominoes will fall all over Europe...

... Russian oligarchs who still had large deposits in Cyprus likely withdrew most of it last week as Cyprus prepared to stop all unauthorized capital movements. On Monday, Reuters reported a major loophole that large Russian account holders may have used to jump ship while ordinary Cypriots lined up at ATMs to withdraw a few hundred euros: Uniastrum Bank, 80 percent of which is owned by Bank of Cyprus, did not place any restrictions on withdrawals in Russia in the week leading up to the restructuring decision.

Laiki Bank and Bank of Cyprus branches in London did not limit withdrawals that week, either. No one knows exactly how much money has been transferred out of Cyprus, Reuters reported. Moreover, several solvent commercial banks, including a Cyprus subsidiary of state-controlled Russian bank VTB, will be left mostly unaffected by the restructuring, the Christian Science Monitor reported.

An editorial in the Thursday edition of Vedomosti concluded that the Russian authorities' accepted the Cyprus restructuring after it became apparent that mainly medium-sized businesses would suffer losses, not the large investors that are the Kremlin's first priority.

Now an exodus of all remaining Russian business likely is beginning, some in Cyprus say.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/28/russia-support-for-cyprus-seizures-deposits-may-mean-big-money-already-out/#ixzz2P8QBViAd

Foxnews??? You base your opinions on Foxnews??? And you think you should share them with us???

FOXNEWS?

Yes, Foxnews covers situations like this with great accuracy - expecially when backed by news gathering agencies ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-eurozone-cyprus-muddle-insight-idUSBRE92O0TM20130325

I suppose you trust that paragon of virtue MSNBC ... the totally unbaised news reporting cable news outfit / sarcasim off

Apart from commanding the best news resources, you seem to be a man with a keen sense of political developments. Would you agree that the events in Cyprus are part of Obama's masterplan to install a communist world government that's going to take away your guns and bibles?

Haha, exactly.

[JDGRUEN]

This information has been published for several days now ... only the little guys got hurt... and it was the EU Commissioners who pushed this on Cyprus... If I had money in any EU controlled bank - I would move it ... If Cyprus can be done this way - so can Spain, Greece - then the dominoes will fall all over Europe...

... Russian oligarchs who still had large deposits in Cyprus likely withdrew most of it last week as Cyprus prepared to stop all unauthorized capital movements. On Monday, Reuters reported a major loophole that large Russian account holders may have used to jump ship while ordinary Cypriots lined up at ATMs to withdraw a few hundred euros: Uniastrum Bank, 80 percent of which is owned by Bank of Cyprus, did not place any restrictions on withdrawals in Russia in the week leading up to the restructuring decision.

Laiki Bank and Bank of Cyprus branches in London did not limit withdrawals that week, either. No one knows exactly how much money has been transferred out of Cyprus, Reuters reported. Moreover, several solvent commercial banks, including a Cyprus subsidiary of state-controlled Russian bank VTB, will be left mostly unaffected by the restructuring, the Christian Science Monitor reported.

An editorial in the Thursday edition of Vedomosti concluded that the Russian authorities' accepted the Cyprus restructuring after it became apparent that mainly medium-sized businesses would suffer losses, not the large investors that are the Kremlin's first priority.

Now an exodus of all remaining Russian business likely is beginning, some in Cyprus say.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/03/28/russia-support-for-cyprus-seizures-deposits-may-mean-big-money-already-out/#ixzz2P8QBViAd

Foxnews??? You base your opinions on Foxnews??? And you think you should share them with us???

FOXNEWS?

Yes, Foxnews covers situations like this with great accuracy - expecially when backed by news gathering agencies ....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-eurozone-cyprus-muddle-insight-idUSBRE92O0TM20130325

I suppose you trust that paragon of virtue MSNBC ... the totally unbaised news reporting cable news outfit / sarcasim off

Apart from commanding the best news resources, you seem to be a man with a keen sense of political developments. Would you agree that the events in Cyprus are part of Obama's masterplan to install a communist world government that's going to take away your guns and bibles?

No I don't - do you?

[Pakboong]

If you are referring to Alan Greenspan, he is hardly a billionaire:

" He is not obliged to give exact figures for his wealth but must report within a range. At the top end his portfolio was worth almost $10m at the end of 2000, up from $7m in 1999. At the bottom, it held its own at around $3m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2729410/Greenspan-wealth-grows-by-millions.html

I am talking about his net worth. It is huge and of course he is not going to let the world know what he controls. Of course, I am exagerating. He has all the wealth he needs and then some. The point I am trying to make is whatever he gets paid, we do not need what he does. His efforts do not help the public good and he has no downside for his own wealth.

I expect the Cyprus bankers lived pretty well for the 20 years since the failure of the Soviet Union.They were some wealthy people and likely still are. You can bet they moved their fortunes out of Cyprus ahead of the fall. Are they going to report how much, I hardly think so.

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the I.M.F., said the bailout plan will require "great efforts from the Cypriot population."

Lagarde puts the problem back on the people for decisions the bankers made. Why would she not point the finger at the bankers club who all got wealthy in the run up but now are asking for the people to save them. None of the banker club members ever consider that it is the bankers of the world who have to fix the problem and they have to fix it with their own money. The top tiers are wealthy beyond imagination.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Pakboong

[Pakboong]

If you are referring to Alan Greenspan, he is hardly a billionaire:

" He is not obliged to give exact figures for his wealth but must report within a range. At the top end his portfolio was worth almost $10m at the end of 2000, up from $7m in 1999. At the bottom, it held its own at around $3m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2729410/Greenspan-wealth-grows-by-millions.html

I am talking about his net worth. It is huge and of course he is not going to let the world know what he controls. Of course, I am exagerating. He has all the wealth he needs and then some. The point I am trying to make is whatever he gets paid, we do not need what he does. His efforts do not help the public good and he has no downside for his own wealth.

I expect the Cyprus bankers lived pretty well for the 20 years since the failure of the Soviet Union.They were some wealthy people and likely still are. You can bet they moved their fortunes out of Cyprus ahead of the fall. Are they going to report how much, I hardly think so.

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the I.M.F., said the bailout plan will require "great efforts from the Cypriot population."

Lagarde puts the problem back on the people for decisions the bankers made. Why would she not point the finger at the bankers club who all got wealthy in the run up but now are asking for the people to save them. None of the banker club members ever consider that it is the bankers of the world who have to fix the problem and they have to fix it with their own money. The top tiers are wealthy beyond imagination.

A growing number of federal judges have had about as much as they can take with Wall Street firms paying

hefty fines to settle probes into serious wrongdoing — without admitting any guilt or any executive taking the fall.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/as_mad_as_hell_gtmFI4WWgFlI2dsHMLB7AL

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[F430murci]

If you are referring to Alan Greenspan, he is hardly a billionaire:

" He is not obliged to give exact figures for his wealth but must report within a range. At the top end his portfolio was worth almost $10m at the end of 2000, up from $7m in 1999. At the bottom, it held its own at around $3m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2729410/Greenspan-wealth-grows-by-millions.html

I am talking about his net worth. It is huge and of course he is not going to let the world know what he controls. Of course, I am exagerating. He has all the wealth he needs and then some. The point I am trying to make is whatever he gets paid, we do not need what he does. His efforts do not help the public good and he has no downside for his own wealth.

I expect the Cyprus bankers lived pretty well for the 20 years since the failure of the Soviet Union.They were some wealthy people and likely still are. You can bet they moved their fortunes out of Cyprus ahead of the fall. Are they going to report how much, I hardly think so.

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the I.M.F., said the bailout plan will require "great efforts from the Cypriot population."

Lagarde puts the problem back on the people for decisions the bankers made. Why would she not point the finger at the bankers club who all got wealthy in the run up but now are asking for the people to save them. None of the banker club members ever consider that it is the bankers of the world who have to fix the problem and they have to fix it with their own money. The top tiers are wealthy beyond imagination.

A growing number of federal judges have had about as much as they can take with Wall Street firms paying

hefty fines to settle probes into serious wrongdoing without admitting any guilt or any executive taking the fall.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/as_mad_as_hell_gtmFI4WWgFlI2dsHMLB7AL

Not just judges, a lot of the SEC and government taint is nor gone as Bush era boys are phasing out and SEC and Feds are getting pretty aggressive in these areas now without a doubt. I am not on criminal or regulatory side per se, but I see this daily in my firm's clients both new and old. Very active right now and a few 2011/2012 convictions emboldened the gorvernment to spend time and resources to prosecutethese guys.

[midas]

F430murci, on 04 Apr 2013 - 19:41, said:

Pakboong, on 04 Apr 2013 - 07:58, said:

Pakboong, on 04 Apr 2013 - 05:37, said:

Scott, on 03 Apr 2013 - 18:54, said:

If you are referring to Alan Greenspan, he is hardly a billionaire:

" He is not obliged to give exact figures for his wealth but must report within a range. At the top end his portfolio was worth almost $10m at the end of 2000, up from $7m in 1999. At the bottom, it held its own at around $3m.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2729410/Greenspan-wealth-grows-by-millions.html

I am talking about his net worth. It is huge and of course he is not going to let the world know what he controls. Of course, I am exagerating. He has all the wealth he needs and then some. The point I am trying to make is whatever he gets paid, we do not need what he does. His efforts do not help the public good and he has no downside for his own wealth.

I expect the Cyprus bankers lived pretty well for the 20 years since the failure of the Soviet Union.They were some wealthy people and likely still are. You can bet they moved their fortunes out of Cyprus ahead of the fall. Are they going to report how much, I hardly think so.

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the I.M.F., said the bailout plan will require "great efforts from the Cypriot population."

Lagarde puts the problem back on the people for decisions the bankers made. Why would she not point the finger at the bankers club who all got wealthy in the run up but now are asking for the people to save them. None of the banker club members ever consider that it is the bankers of the world who have to fix the problem and they have to fix it with their own money. The top tiers are wealthy beyond imagination.

A growing number of federal judges have had about as much as they can take with Wall Street firms paying

hefty fines to settle probes into serious wrongdoing without admitting any guilt or any executive taking the fall.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/as_mad_as_hell_gtmFI4WWgFlI2dsHMLB7AL

Not just judges, a lot of the SEC and government taint is nor gone as Bush era boys are phasing out and SEC and Feds are getting pretty aggressive in these areas now without a doubt. I am not on criminal or regulatory side per se, but I see this daily in my firm's clients both new and old. Very active right now and a few 2011/2012 convictions emboldened the gorvernment to spend time and resources to prosecutethese guys.

“SEC and Feds are getting pretty aggressive in these areas now without a doubt. “

this guy doesnt agree with you on that ?

How Your Bank Account Could Disappear

“ The pretend-regulators (notably the SEC and CFTC) on a daily basis rubber-stamp the banksters’ acts of fraud (where they are caught red-handed) – handing out totally trivial fines, and not even requiring these thieves to admit their guilt.. “

http://www.wealthwire.com/news/finance/3999

Edited April 4, 2013 by midas

[F430murci]

See below as whack system.

Edited April 4, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

F430murci, on 04 Apr 2013 - 19:41, said:

Pakboong, on 04 Apr 2013 - 07:58, said:

Pakboong, on 04 Apr 2013 - 05:37, said:

I am talking about his net worth. It is huge and of course he is not going to let the world know what he controls. Of course, I am exagerating. He has all the wealth he needs and then some. The point I am trying to make is whatever he gets paid, we do not need what he does. His efforts do not help the public good and he has no downside for his own wealth.

I expect the Cyprus bankers lived pretty well for the 20 years since the failure of the Soviet Union.They were some wealthy people and likely still are. You can bet they moved their fortunes out of Cyprus ahead of the fall. Are they going to report how much, I hardly think so.

Christine Lagarde, managing director of the I.M.F., said the bailout plan will require "great efforts from the Cypriot population."

Lagarde puts the problem back on the people for decisions the bankers made. Why would she not point the finger at the bankers club who all got wealthy in the run up but now are asking for the people to save them. None of the banker club members ever consider that it is the bankers of the world who have to fix the problem and they have to fix it with their own money. The top tiers are wealthy beyond imagination.

A growing number of federal judges have had about as much as they can take with Wall Street firms paying

hefty fines to settle probes into serious wrongdoing without admitting any guilt or any executive taking the fall.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/as_mad_as_hell_gtmFI4WWgFlI2dsHMLB7AL

Not just judges, a lot of the SEC and government taint is nor gone as Bush era boys are phasing out and SEC and Feds are getting pretty aggressive in these areas now without a doubt. I am not on criminal or regulatory side per se, but I see this daily in my firm's clients both new and old. Very active right now and a few 2011/2012 convictions emboldened the gorvernment to spend time and resources to prosecutethese guys.

“SEC and Feds are getting pretty aggressive in these areas now without a doubt. “

this guy doesnt agree with you on that ?

How Your Bank Account Could Disappear

“ The pretend-regulators (notably the SEC and CFTC) on a daily basis rubber-stamp the banksters’ acts of fraud (where they are caught red-handed) – handing out totally trivial fines, and not even requiring these thieves to admit their guilt.. “

http://www.wealthwire.com/news/finance/3999

Really, that guy or his web site is trying to sell precious metals so he has an agenda. You can find anything you want on the web. Obviously, someone trying to sell you on gold will be anti banking, fed, fiat backed money and etc.

The reality is this, I am a securities lawyers and my firm handles civil, criminal and regulatory sides of banking and securities firms. SEC, fed, state and etc. are getting much more agrresive. I see it every day, but obviously there will be examples of big wigs and investment bankers here and there everyone says should be prosecuted and are not being prosecuted. That does not mean they are not actively pursuing these cases now and the public many times is not privy to full informaiton and what is goin on behind the scenes. Some of these investigations are very lengthy.

[midas]

Really, that guy or his web site is trying to sell precious metals so he has an agenda. You can find anything you want on the web. Obviously, someone trying to sell you on gold will be anti banking, fed, fiat backed money and etc.

The reality is this, I am a securities lawyers and my firm handles civil, criminal and regulatory sides of banking and securities firms. SEC, fed, state and etc. are getting much more agrresive. I see it every day, but obviously there will be examples of big wigs and investment bankers here and there everyone says should be prosecuted and are not being prosecuted. That does not mean they are not actively pursuing these cases now and the public many times is not privy to full informaiton and what is goin on behind the scenes. Some of these investigations are very lengthy.

But you can't apply that argument against everybody just because they warn about the criminality of the financial system? For example somebody like former congressman Ron Paul isn't trying to sell gold? Yes he believes in the Gold standard and his argument as to why he was anti Fed and anti fiat back money makes total sense. But his only agenda is to TELL THE TRUTH!

The likes of Gerald Celente isn't selling gold either? He only runs the Trends

Institute and he says the same thing about the criminality of the financial

system having recently lost quite a lot of money himself in the M.F. global failure. And Jon Corzine wasnt prosecuted - how come ?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Scott
formatting

[F430murci]

Really, that guy or his web site is trying to sell precious metals so he has an agenda. You can find anything you want on the web. Obviously, someone trying to sell you on gold will be anti banking, fed, fiat backed money and etc.

The reality is this, I am a securities lawyers and my firm handles civil, criminal and regulatory sides of banking and securities firms. SEC, fed, state and etc. are getting much more agrresive. I see it every day, but obviously there will be examples of big wigs and investment bankers here and there everyone says should be prosecuted and are not being prosecuted. That does not mean they are not actively pursuing these cases now and the public many times is not privy to full informaiton and what is goin on behind the scenes. Some of these investigations are very lengthy.

But you can't apply that argument against everybody just because they warn about the criminality of the financial system? For example somebody like former congressman Ron Paul isn't trying to sell gold? Yes he believes in the Gold standard and his argument as to why he was anti Fed and anti fiat back money makes total sense. But his only agenda is to TELL THE TRUTH!

The likes of Gerald Celente isn't selling gold either? He only runs the Trends

Institute and he says the same thing about the criminality of the financial

system having recently lost quite a lot of money himself in the M.F. global failure. And Jon Corzine wasnt prosecuted - how come ?

Uhm, I said there are scattered examples of guys not being prosecuted (yet), but I doubt you have the facts or know what investigations are underway. Nevertheless, as I indicated these guys are generally getting prosecuted and the feds are really getting aggressive.

The gold standard v fed crap has been going on longer than I have been alive. I have read the books on this subject and etc. Fed is not going anywhere and we will not go back to a gold standard, ever. Lots of paranoid conspiracies out there on this subject.

Truth is large bank are as healthy as they have ever been. BofA was able to reserve 100 billion in 16 months to deal with CMO and Countrywide issues. They did not need entire reserve and the amazing part is BofA could reserve that much money for lawsuit liability in such a short period of time. Merrill Lynch is generating huge liquidity.

All banks, Regions finally included, paid back TARP plus interst rather quickly and effortlessly. Troubled asset, trouble debt and stress testing all looks great.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/03/07/stress-test-success-all-but-one-big-bank-pass-feds-health-check/

Sorry to break it to you doom and gloom guys, but US banking system is as strong as it has been in a long time.

There are many Euro banks up shit creek and with 12.1 % unemoyment in Euro zone there are going to be problems. Sounds like some of Thailand's banks are in bad shape based in some articles I saw recently.

Edited April 5, 2013 by F430murci

[Potosi]

Seems that up to $31 trillion are in offshore bank accounts such as Cyprus, removed from the economy of the countries where the funds came from. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/05/world/europe/vast-hidden-wealth-revealed-in-leaked-records.html

Hope the mods open a thread on it.

[midas]

Really, that guy or his web site is trying to sell precious metals so he has an agenda. You can find anything you want on the web. Obviously, someone trying to sell you on gold will be anti banking, fed, fiat backed money and etc.

The reality is this, I am a securities lawyers and my firm handles civil, criminal and regulatory sides of banking and securities firms. SEC, fed, state and etc. are getting much more agrresive. I see it every day, but obviously there will be examples of big wigs and investment bankers here and there everyone says should be prosecuted and are not being prosecuted. That does not mean they are not actively pursuing these cases now and the public many times is not privy to full informaiton and what is goin on behind the scenes. Some of these investigations are very lengthy.

But you can't apply that argument against everybody just because they warn about the criminality of the financial system? For example somebody like former congressman Ron Paul isn't trying to sell gold? Yes he believes in the Gold standard and his argument as to why he was anti Fed and anti fiat back money makes total sense. But his only agenda is to TELL THE TRUTH!

The likes of Gerald Celente isn't selling gold either? He only runs the Trends

Institute and he says the same thing about the criminality of the financial

system having recently lost quite a lot of money himself in the M.F. global failure. And Jon Corzine wasnt prosecuted - how come ?

Uhm, I said there are scattered examples of guys not being prosecuted (yet), but I doubt you have the facts or know what investigations are underway. Nevertheless, as I indicated these guys are generally getting prosecuted and the feds are really getting aggressive.

The gold standard v fed crap has been going on longer than I have been alive. I have read the books on this subject and etc. Fed is not going anywhere and we will not go back to a gold standard, ever. Lots of paranoid conspiracies out there on this subject.

Truth is large bank are as healthy as they have ever been. BofA was able to reserve 100 billion in 16 months to deal with CMO and Countrywide issues. They did not need entire reserve and the amazing part is BofA could reserve that much money for lawsuit liability in such a short period of time. Merrill Lynch is generating huge liquidity.

All banks, Regions finally included, paid back TARP plus interst rather quickly and effortlessly. Troubled asset, trouble debt and stress testing all looks great.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/03/07/stress-test-success-all-but-one-big-bank-pass-feds-health-check/

Sorry to break it to you doom and gloom guys, but US banking system is as strong as it has been in a long time.

There are many Euro banks up shit creek and with 12.1 % unemoyment in Euro zone there are going to be problems. Sounds like some of Thailand's banks are in bad shape based in some articles I saw recently.

" but US banking system is as strong as it has been in a long time. "

so does that mean USA will not participate in any " Global Rules " ?

UniCredit Says Global Rule Needed to Bail In Big Deposits

" Uninsured deposits could be used in future bank failures provided global rulemakers agree on a common approach, according to Federico Ghizzoni, the chief executive officer of Italy’s biggest lender, UniCredit SpA. (UCG)"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-04/unicredit-s-ghizzoni-favors-using-big-deposits-in-bank-failures.html

[midas]

now this should be interesting !! We will soon see if the rule of law still applies .....

" LARGE depositors in Laiki Bank who face losing most if not all their money have warned they will take the Central Bank’s top brass to court if even one cent is taken out of their accounts.

The threat of legal action raises the spectre of the bailout programme unravelling in the courts, and slapping the state with massive sums in penalties."

Central Bank could face slew of lawsuits from depositors

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/bailout/central-bank-could-face-slew-lawsuits-depositors/20130404

[Gulfsailor]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

[midas]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

the fifth

" If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!"

I will bet all my gold bullion with you that it is ‘ when ‘ not ‘ if ‘

I am just glad I don't have any children and to have to explain to them this conduct and to worry about the kind of life they are going to have to endure in the future as a result of these unbelievably selfish policies. It will be extremely tough on them.

Edited April 5, 2013 by midas

[F430murci]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

the fifth

" If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!"

I will bet all my gold bullion with you that it is when not if

I am just glad I don't have any children and to have to explain to them this conduct and to worry about the kind of life they are going to have to endure in the future as a result of these unbelievably selfish policies. It will be extremely tough on them.

Gold prices are cyclical and on way back down. Smart investors on allocate part of their portfolio to gold funds to hedge against equity losses, not go 100 percent gold. I have made much more money off equities than precious metals over the years. Not even close.

You guys that purchase Gold obviously do so on hope belief or hope that fiat system fails and that world will return to gold standard making you incredibly rich. Nothing new about strategy or mentality except your about lose 1/3 to perhaps of your value very shortly when gold retreats to 800 to 1,100 range in next two years.

RE: Cyprus

What do you guys propose then. The banks have failed in many Euro areas largely because of regulation and largely due to economic issues such as high unemployment, poor bond performance in certain Euro zone areas and a high rate of consumer and commercial defaults.

Again, the question is what to do?

The proposals so far have been very transparent and are focused on long term recovery and keeping certain small banks with large ratios of troubled assets out of failure. Do you propose just letting them fail wheren large depositors get a lower percentage on amounts above insured deposits?

There is no good solution to bank situations such as Cyprus. No Fed or large GDP government TARP them. Options are pretty limited, but the doom and gloom all banks will fail is paranoia and over reaction and fails to account for transparency of these proposals.

I do agree that having large wealth in troubled Euro zone banks such as Italy, Greece, Spain and etc., would be a major concern. Those areas are plagued with severe economic issues that are impacting banking and financial system, not other way around though.

Edited April 5, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

Pretty heavily regulated here, especially after Dodd Frank. Class action lawyers also keep things honest by hawking in on improper fee issues.

Is US, most wealthy people do not keep large sums of deposit only money above $ 250k or FDIC insured amount in banks. The $250k is sufficient to cover most and many people in cash just buy blocks of $250k CDs and spread them around for different rates and lengths.

The Euro zone is and has been a mess and apparently banks are looking for solutions to remain viable and deal with troubled assets and debt so they can turn the corner. Consumer and commercial default put them here as well as poor bond performance.

If you guys have better solutions to fix large scale economic problems, you guys could perhaps become wealthy individuals. The Euro zone proposals are very transparent so I believe they are honestly searching for the best solutions for everyone.

Edited April 5, 2013 by F430murci

[Scott]

There is a forum for those who are interested in economic, banking and business.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/13-jobs-economy-banking-business-investments/

You are free to open topics in the forum. For this thread, we should try to stay close to the Cyprus issue, although banking and financial problems are very broad in scope.

[midas]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

the fifth

" If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!"

I will bet all my gold bullion with you that it is when not if

I am just glad I don't have any children and to have to explain to them this conduct and to worry about the kind of life they are going to have to endure in the future as a result of these unbelievably selfish policies. It will be extremely tough on them.

Gold prices are cyclical and on way back down. Smart investors on allocate part of their portfolio to gold funds to hedge against equity losses, not go 100 percent gold. I have made much more money off equities than precious metals over the years. Not even close.

You guys that purchase Gold obviously do so on hope belief or hope that fiat system fails and that world will return to gold standard making you incredibly rich. Nothing new about strategy or mentality except your about lose 1/3 to perhaps of your value very shortly when gold retreats to 800 to 1,100 range in next two years.

RE: Cyprus

What do you guys propose then. The banks have failed in many Euro areas largely because of regulation and largely due to economic issues such as high unemployment, poor bond performance in certain Euro zone areas and a high rate of consumer and commercial defaults.

Again, the question is what to do?

The proposals so far have been very transparent and are focused on long term recovery and keeping certain small banks with large ratios of troubled assets out of failure. Do you propose just letting them fail wheren large depositors get a lower percentage on amounts above insured deposits?

There is no good solution to bank situations such as Cyprus. No Fed or large GDP government TARP them. Options are pretty limited, but the doom and gloom all banks will fail is paranoia and over reaction and fails to account for transparency of these proposals.

I do agree that having large wealth in troubled Euro zone banks such as Italy, Greece, Spain and etc., would be a major concern. Those areas are plagued with severe economic issues that are impacting banking and financial system, not other way around though.

You are quite wrong! I am not a goldbug because I only have a percentage of my assets in gold and quite frankly I don't realistically expect to make any money on it because it's purely as an insurance policy for when the whole system implodes and paper money is worth nothing. If gold is worth anything above paper then it has to be better?

[F430murci]

I don't know regulations in the US, but in Europe some large 'healthy' banks are finding creative ways to make money and appearing to be in good shape at the same time. A bank needs to leverage its loans against deposits at a certain ratio. So as a bank you can't go and loan money out, if you don't have enough deposits. Reports are now coming in that companies who apply for large loans are getting these without the necessary collateral, under the condition that the loan amount is 10% higher than requested, and this extra 10% is deposited straight back into a fixed deposit account at the bank. A solid way to keep the bank's leverage! And also good business for the bank as it can loan at nearly 0% interest from the ECB or national reserve bank, and then pass it on for up to 10% interest or higher. (High interest as there is no collateral). If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!

the fifth

" If it all comes crumbling down, the taxpayer will be there to bail them out (again)!"

I will bet all my gold bullion with you that it is when not if

I am just glad I don't have any children and to have to explain to them this conduct and to worry about the kind of life they are going to have to endure in the future as a result of these unbelievably selfish policies. It will be extremely tough on them.

Gold prices are cyclical and on way back down. Smart investors on allocate part of their portfolio to gold funds to hedge against equity losses, not go 100 percent gold. I have made much more money off equities than precious metals over the years. Not even close.

You guys that purchase Gold obviously do so on hope belief or hope that fiat system fails and that world will return to gold standard making you incredibly rich. Nothing new about strategy or mentality except your about lose 1/3 to perhaps of your value very shortly when gold retreats to 800 to 1,100 range in next two years.

RE: Cyprus

What do you guys propose then. The banks have failed in many Euro areas largely because of regulation and largely due to economic issues such as high unemployment, poor bond performance in certain Euro zone areas and a high rate of consumer and commercial defaults.

Again, the question is what to do?

The proposals so far have been very transparent and are focused on long term recovery and keeping certain small banks with large ratios of troubled assets out of failure. Do you propose just letting them fail wheren large depositors get a lower percentage on amounts above insured deposits?

There is no good solution to bank situations such as Cyprus. No Fed or large GDP government TARP them. Options are pretty limited, but the doom and gloom all banks will fail is paranoia and over reaction and fails to account for transparency of these proposals.

I do agree that having large wealth in troubled Euro zone banks such as Italy, Greece, Spain and etc., would be a major concern. Those areas are plagued with severe economic issues that are impacting banking and financial system, not other way around though.

You are quite wrong! I am not a goldbug because I only have a percentage of my assets in gold and quite frankly I don't realistically expect to make any money on it because it's purely as an insurance policy for when the whole system implodes and paper money is worth nothing. If gold is worth anything above paper then it has to be better?

Well you defend you gold arguments, but you don't adress the crux of the issue dealing with solutions for Cyprus or other banks. You just want to condemn and spread fear that the fiat system is doomed for failure and the whole syetm will implode leaving you all the better. Haha, sriously, I have heard this for years and know many people with tons of gold in their vaults, safe deposit boxes and etc. Again, your gold with be worth about a $ 1,000 if your lucky in two years. If economy turns around and the Euro sorts through these loss issues, you gold could easily go back down to $ 500 levels.

If you want to hedge or make money on a system imploding, you purchase commodities that people will need and have to buy regardless of inflation or lack of money. The Russian billionaires are prime example here. Gold is not a necessity like gas, oil and food resources. When people are poor and hungry, they will stand in line and pay what ever money they have to eat or get to work to pay for food and shelter. Ambramovich et al. are prime examples how to prosper when a country implodes.

Sitting around wating for the end of the world is a sad and lonely way to live . . . If US can survive financial crisis of 2008, I have pretty good confidence in the civilized world to working out the remaining problems. I saw first hand what happened and how it was repaired. I honestly believed the only solution was to allow the big banks and AIG fail and to let maters work themselves out naturally. I worked with the Feds and state regulators for two of my large bank clients on rerating, stress test and TARP application process. I have zero worries about keeping my money in these banks.

[Potosi]

Apart from commanding the best news resources, you seem to be a man with a keen sense of political developments. Would you agree that the events in Cyprus are part of Obama's masterplan to install a communist world government that's going to take away your guns and bibles?

No I don't - do you?

I was just probing how far your odd ideas go, since you produced quite some nonsense in this thread. You are Tea Party, you cried blue murder when first Bush and then Obama bailed out banks, car manufacturers, whatever. That's what you called 'socialism' back then. Good point, privatizing profits but socialising losses is corporate socialism, not the socialism that spreads wealth more evenly, though. You demanded that enterprises must go bust if the business goes bad.

That's what happens on Cyprus. A bank went broke, and the investors/creditors pay most of the price, not the taxpayer. But now you call this socialism, even though the circumstances are reversed. I really like to see your definition of socialism.

Anyway, congratulations that the American bank sector is far more regulated now than in Europe, and the government actually knows who has which assets where. They even told the secretive Swiss Banks which are big in America to either play along, or to bugger off. A Cyprus event can't happen in the US anymore, and tax evasion, laundering money, hide it in tax oases is far more tricky and risky than it used to be. The American people told the banks to run their business in a lawful way.

[F430murci]

Apart from commanding the best news resources, you seem to be a man with a keen sense of political developments. Would you agree that the events in Cyprus are part of Obama's masterplan to install a communist world government that's going to take away your guns and bibles?

No I don't - do you?

I was just probing how far your odd ideas go, since you produced quite some nonsense in this thread. You are Tea Party, you cried blue murder when first Bush and then Obama bailed out banks, car manufacturers, whatever. That's what you called 'socialism' back then. Good point, privatizing profits but socialising losses is corporate socialism, not the socialism that spreads wealth more evenly, though. You demanded that enterprises must go bust if the business goes bad.

That's what happens on Cyprus. A bank went broke, and the investors/creditors pay most of the price, not the taxpayer. But now you call this socialism, even though the circumstances are reversed. I really like to see your definition of socialism.

Anyway, congratulations that the American bank sector is far more regulated now than in Europe, and the government actually knows who has which assets where. They even told the secretive Swiss Banks which are big in America to either play along, or to bugger off. A Cyprus event can't happen in the US anymore, and tax evasion, laundering money, hide it in tax oases is far more tricky and risky than it used to be. The American people told the banks to run their business in a lawful way.

For sure. US Banks have to do SARs on just about anything or everything that fits certains very broad suspicious categories or everyone from the teller, the head teller, branch manager to regional operator is in trouble. Very little discretion on the part of bank employees here and they will literally get fired over this stuff quickly if no SAR generated.