Changing Childs Name On Thai Passport

[Pilotman]

I'm sure that this has been an issue for others, so some advice please, as we are getting the runaround by the Thai Aurhorities here in London.

I adopted my Wife's daughter 5 years ago through the UK Courts. She is now 15, a British Citizen and has a UK passport. My daughter's old Thai passport [now expired] is in the name of my Wife's ex husband. We want to get a new Thai Passport for her in her new name and we are getting conflicting advice. We have had the UK court documents and her UK Birth Certificate [which states that she was born in Thailand] legalisled by the UK FCO and translated into Thai. We are now being told by some in the London Embassy that I need to adopt her again in Thailand through their system. However, previously, we were told that this was not necessary and all we need to do was get the court documents and her UK Birth Certificate legalised by both the FCO and the Thai Authorities and the Amphur would issue a new ID card. Following that, we were led to believe, she would be issued with a new Thai passport.

Does anyone have the right advice on this please?

[Mario2008]

The question is if you did a UK-adoption only or an international adoption in which both Thai and UK government would have been involved. If you only went through a UK adoption, which would be strange if the child was born in Thailand and has a Thai father, it would indeed probably not be recognized by Thailand.

For a Thai passport a child needs permission of both parents. If you didn't do an international adoption the Thai father needs to give permission, unless the mother has sole custody. (The Thai ID-card may not require both parents to sign, as to have an ID-card is required by law).

[Pilotman]

Sorry Mario, but I'm not sure what you are saying and I would not want others reading this to be confused. I know of no 'International Adoption' procedure as such? There is a 'intra country adoption', procdure, recognised by both the UK and Thailand if that is what you are talking about and that is what we went through in the UK Court system. In that procedure, both natural parents give their consent to the adoption. In our case, my wife naturally gave her permsission and my daughter's biological father also gave his, by way of a certifed Affidavit made in Thailand in front of a Thai Notary, although this was not formally required by the UK Court, as my wife had sole custody and a certified document to prove it. That is why I can't understand the 'advice' that we were given by the Thai Embassy in London. Since my post, I have been in touch with the Thai lawyers who dealt with the previous Affidavit and they tell me that it is for the local Amphur to decide whether an ID card can be issued in the new name without further Count action in Thailand. The advice is: "catch him/her on a good day and you will have no problem". We will see. If anyone else has any further experince I will be glad to hear it.

[MegaRanter]

The natural parents went their separate ways, but the 15 yr old is still the daughter of who she bears his name. Until he says she can she will never be able to change her till she is 18.

If you and her mom ever parts ways, will she need to get another surname?

[doji]

She can't change her last name in her "thai passport", unless you had done the formal international adoption through Dept. of social welfare of thailand PERIOD.

At this point of being 15, it's too late for you to do it anyway, because the process is quite complex and lengthy (normally 18-24 months).

The only way to change her thai last name from this point on.... is when she gets married, then she can choose to take her husband last name quite easily.

Edited April 10, 2013 by doji

[Mario2008]

Sorry Mario, but I'm not sure what you are saying and I would not want others reading this to be confused. I know of no 'International Adoption' procedure as such? There is a 'intra country adoption', procdure, recognised by both the UK and Thailand if that is what you are talking about and that is what we went through in the UK Court system. In that procedure, both natural parents give their consent to the adoption. In our case, my wife naturally gave her permsission and my daughter's biological father also gave his, by way of a certifed Affidavit made in Thailand in front of a Thai Notary, although this was not formally required by the UK Court, as my wife had sole custody and a certified document to prove it. That is why I can't understand the 'advice' that we were given by the Thai Embassy in London. Since my post, I have been in touch with the Thai lawyers who dealt with the previous Affidavit and they tell me that it is for the local Amphur to decide whether an ID card can be issued in the new name without further Count action in Thailand. The advice is: "catch him/her on a good day and you will have no problem". We will see. If anyone else has any further experince I will be glad to hear it.

The "intra-country" procedure is indeed what I meant.

It probably is more a question of that the Embassy has never dealt with this situation before and doesn't know what to do.

You will have to go through the procedure of changing your daughters name first, before she can get a new passport in her new name. That should not require a court decision, in Thailand that is routinely done at the amphur. But not sure what the procedure is if you want to change your name when living abroad.

There are two departments you can contact in Thailand:

- the department of consular affairs (ministry of Foreign Affairs) http://www.consular.go.th/main/ (in Thai) and you can find a directory here, with email: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/org-chart

- the department of provincial Administration (DOPA), they set the rules for the amphur about registration of marriage, birth etc.

http://www.dopa.go.th/ (Thai only)

Try the consular department first. They can instruct the embassy on how to deal with your case.

[abrahamzvi]

With all due respect to the "expert opinions" above all this is nonsense. Many years ago, I had my wife's daughter adopted in Germany (this could only be done with either the natural father's permission, or a solid proof (legalised by the authorities in Thailand) that the father had disappeared and could not be traced, which was the case with us). Once the German Court issued the adoption certificate (it took more than a year for the whole process to be completed), we had no trouble getting for her a Thai ID and a Thai Passport in her new name. She also holds a German Passport. The adoption was fully recognised by the Thai authrities, even before she was issued with a German Birth Certrificate (which can take up to 3 years in Germany). So what is all this reference to "International Adoption" I am of the legal profession (not in Thailand, but I do know a little about Thai Law), but I have never heard about such a form of adoption either in Thailand, nor in Germany, UK, USA (where I am admitted to the Bar in NY), or anywhere else!

[Mario2008]

With a "national" adoption you only follow the adoptions rules of 1 country, in an "international" adoption you follow the adoption rules of both the country of the person to be adopted and of the country of the persons who adopt the child.

http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=69

Gives rules for an international adoption.

[bkk_mike]

It used to be the case that Thailand didn't recognise UK adoptions and you had to do the inter-country adoption to get it recognised in Thailand.

But I thought they changed that a bit less than 10 years ago.

(The UK doesn't recognise a Thai adoption still.)

However I thought you could only do the Thai name change back at the amphur she's registered at because of the need to update the house book and issue a new ID card. (Although I never went through the process myself... it would explain the Embassy not wanting to issue a passport in the new name until you have the new ID card.)

Even once you're in Thailand, this isn't a common situation so if your amphur doesn't deal with lots of foreigners ...

It might be a very good idea to contact the adoption service in Bangkok if only to give you a letter confirming a Thai adoption is NOT required so that you have a piece of paper to educate those who think a Thai adoption is still necessary.

Edited April 11, 2013 by bkk_mike

[Pilotman]

Thank you everyone for your advice and infmration, all good stuff, but it just goes to show how comlicated these matters can be. Mario, I will use your links to get more information. Your comments seem to chime with the advice given by the Thai Consulate in Hull. Abrahamzvi; your experience gives me hope that this is not an unsumountable problem. Just one last comment; MegaRanter, you really must calm down mate and get your facts right. She is my daughter, not her old biological, drop out Father's. Her name is my name and her Mothers name. Her future is with her Mother and me in the UK. If at the end of the day the Thai authorities can't recognise that, then she stays Bristish and they lose the loyalty of a talented person; end of!

[Arkady]

Alternatively you could change your name to your daughter's Thai surname by deed poll. Then you will all have the same surname without having to go through the hoops and outstretched hands of Thai bureaucracy. Problem solved.

[Falcon]

I wish you all the best of luck pilotman, things here in Thailand are never made easy but some things are well worth fighting for, just as this for your Daughter. If it would help you in any way, feel free to contacte through pm and I can try to get info for you from Bangkok if you need it.