Do No Harm

[thequietman]

Hi guys,

stepsons g/friend miscarried 2nite. Took her to the local doctor when she had stomach pain and she miscarried right there. Rang for ambulance and the neighbors were around. Lots of questions but we are a private family and like to keep to ourselves.

Ambulance headed off. We were assured not too serious medically so I was relieved.

Then the fun starts.......... I actually watched this female doctor walk up and down the village looking for someone to tell. The moment someone asked, she was in heaven and the gossip began.

I went over to her and started shouting at her 'what about patient privacy" and such. She obviously didn't understand me but she knew I was upset. What the hell is it with medical 'professionals' here ?

Do they not have any sense of what's right and wrong. Surely they take some kind of oath to remain true to the patient. This woman was literally wetting herself to tell someone. I am disgusted but not surprised.

[saakura]

i think you need to calm down. In many asian cultures and especially in villages, they are all like one big family and there are no secrets between them. Especially in matters such as one of the neighbours having lost a child in pregnancy. In their cultural context, it is nothing to do with gossip but rather sharing in the grief. I have had a thai colleague who wondered why farangs leave teddies and flowers on the roadside or outside houses where there has been a tragedy.

[kevvy]

why did you have to shout at her for? Maybe she was just telling your neighbors that she will be alright . I am so sorry for your stepson and girlfriend as a precious life has gone .

[ChinChanGamble]

i think you need to calm down. In many asian cultures and especially in villages, they are all like one big family and there are no secrets between them. Especially in matters such as one of the neighbours having lost a child in pregnancy. In their cultural context, it is nothing to do with gossip but rather sharing in the grief. I have had a thai colleague who wondered why farangs leave teddies and flowers on the roadside or outside houses where there has been a tragedy.

That's a terrible excuse, if you have spent any time in a village you would know that gossip is what keeps the community going. This case is just a matter of being first to tell. And when it comes to leaving flowers and teddys at the side if the road, it's a mark of respect for the death of a loved one in the place they died, no comparison to what this doctor done.

Very sorry for your families loss.

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thequietman]

i think you need to calm down. In many asian cultures and especially in villages, they are all like one big family and there are no secrets between them. Especially in matters such as one of the neighbours having lost a child in pregnancy. In their cultural context, it is nothing to do with gossip but rather sharing in the grief. I have had a thai colleague who wondered why farangs leave teddies and flowers on the roadside or outside houses where there has been a tragedy.

There is no sharing in grief. We have no family ties to this doctor. She should have just went back into her surgery and continued on. Walking up and down the street looking for someone to gossip to is not concern in my eyes. No one approached her.......... she approached them.

[thequietman]

why did you have to shout at her for? Maybe she was just telling your neighbors that she will be alright . I am so sorry for your stepson and girlfriend as a precious life has gone .

This doctor is not a family member. The correct thing to do would have been to return to her surgery. No one approached her..................... she approached them.

[Ulysses G.]

I gave up trying to figure out what is normal and accepted for Thais to do a long time ago. I've made too many mistakes misjudging the situation because of my own cultural baggage.

[smokie36]

why did you have to shout at her for? Maybe she was just telling your neighbors that she will be alright . I am so sorry for your stepson and girlfriend as a precious life has gone .

This doctor is not a family member. The correct thing to do would have been to return to her surgery. No one approached her..................... she approached them.

If she is a properly qualified doctor then she has broken the rules governing her profession.

There is likely a recourse for this in Thailand but I can't help you wil the route of complaint.

In any case I'm sorry for your loss quietman....I wish you and your family all the best.

[kevvy]

why did you have to shout at her for? Maybe she was just telling your neighbors that she will be alright . I am so sorry for your stepson and girlfriend as a precious life has gone .

This doctor is not a family member. The correct thing to do would have been to return to her surgery. No one approached her..................... she approached them.

wow , just calm down . you would think you would be more concern for your family at this tragic event , then worry about a doctor who was maybe just telling neighbors about the tragedy .I am sure if the doctor could help she would have . so when the neighbors were asking questions , you wanted to keep to yourself even though they might have had good intentions, so when your step son,s g/f was taken away you did not go with them , but stayed there for the fun to begin ? still sorry for your lost

[thequietman]

why did you have to shout at her for? Maybe she was just telling your neighbors that she will be alright . I am so sorry for your stepson and girlfriend as a precious life has gone .

This doctor is not a family member. The correct thing to do would have been to return to her surgery. No one approached her..................... she approached them.

wow , just calm down . you would think you would be more concern for your family at this tragic event , then worry about a doctor who was maybe just telling neighbors about the tragedy .I am sure if the doctor could help she would have . so when the neighbors were asking questions , you wanted to keep to yourself even though they might have had good intentions, so when your step son,s g/f was taken away you did not go with them , but stayed there for the fun to begin ? still sorry for your lost

you are such an ass. Girl, stepson, girls mother, girls father, my wife, 2 parametics and one driver. Where do you want me to sit...on the roof. Once it was confirmed at the doctors surgery that it was a miscarriage and she was out of danger, I was ok. I stayed to look after our son or maybe I should have put him in the back of the ambulance also. A doctor should not be discussing any patients medical history - period. Discussing it with non family members ! unbelievable. Going to find someone to discuss it with ! defies belief.

[soi41]

You can't change it.......so why bother.

[geriatrickid]

Yes, a doctor must respect patient privacy. However, sometimes physicians will provide some basic information that the patient will be alright.

In practice, there is no such thing as patient privacy in Thailand. In most hospitals, admin staff can easily access patient info. This is also the case in the west despite all the laws on patient privacy.People yack. It's always been this way and always will be. You need only look at the hospital room pictures of the surviving Boston terrorist to appreciate that info leaks out despite draconian security measures. It is a little better now that files are electronic and access is tracked. However, Thailand still relies on the old paper file system.

My experience with rural health care in Thailand is that info is regularly shared with the community on a general basis as a means of providing reassurance and support for the patient. As westerners, we see this as a negative, but in many Asian cultures it is an indication of affinity and caring. This is one of the reasons why a great many patients will not be open with their health care providers as they know the info will get out. It is a significant obstacle in the delivery of health care to adolescents who are sensitive to the dissemination of their conditions. Is it wrong? Yes, but this is the current culture and trying to change it is akin to trying to hold back high tide at the beach.

[CharlieH]

I dont know the person or people involved but feel sure that emotions were flowing and for that alone my sympsthy and hopes are with you.The person concerned may not have been a doctor, in many villages, mine included, the doctor as they are referred too are actually nurse practitioners, not doctors and are not subject to what you might expect a doctor to be governed by. That said, I personally dont agree as that goes against what I know and have come to expect in my culture, but we are in Thailand and our expectations, rules, morals or whatever dont count for much in reality. Thats doesnt explain it or justify it, it just states it for what is, their way and their culture, sometimes as unpleasant or upsetting as it may be, you have to accept it for what it is, that doesnt make it right, or wrong, it makes it different to what some expect or have been taught as acceptable.

Again, sorry for your upset.

Edited April 21, 2013 by CharlieH

[mickjn]

Sorry for your loss but you have done the wrong thing you have shouted in front of them you have lost control bad thing,you have shouted at the doctor very bad thing.You are a private person,you are not a private person anymore they will be yak yak today about the mad farang

[Beetlejuice]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

If you continue to feel angry about the Doctor's conduct you could presumably report it to the Doctor's registration authority. In the UK that would be the General Medical Council. I'm not sure who the equivalent would be in Thailand so you would have to research that. In the UK or the USA it would be a breach of medical ethics which could result in a warning or less likely, removal from the register and withdrawal of the right to practice.

[Eesat]

She has broken the Hippocratic Oath that all Doctors agree to abide by,I would find out which local authority she works for and report her,she should be at least warned or struck off for such blatant disregard of a family's privacy!

"What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

[Eesat]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

What a disgraceful post,so you're suggesting that if the OP suffers a cardiac arrest the Doctor should stand by and do nothing?What a thoroughly nasty individual you really must be,words fail me!

[Beetlejuice]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

What a disgraceful post,so you're suggesting that if the OP suffers a cardiac arrest the Doctor should stand by and do nothing?What a thoroughly nasty individual you really must be,words fail me!

Of course I`m not.

I am advising the OP that if he upsets those in certain professions, it could involve consequences for him if he becomes blacklisted.

If you do not understand my comments, how else would you like me to explain this?

[ChinChanGamble]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

Whatever about depending on the community for help this scenario is nothing of the sort. In Thailand, there is doctor patient confidentiality, so you cant say anything about western values and accuse someone of not being able to adapt to a new culture, in fact I think it's just a cheap shot at the OP on your behalf, happens all the time on TV.

Adapting to the culture is learning the language, learning and going along with customs, and yes accepting that things are different and handled differently from your native country. The local doctor going around the village spouting your business does not fall in any if those brackets.

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[smokie36]

OP....you should request this post moved to the Health Forum for a sensible answer.

[Rooo]

OP....you should request this post moved to the Health Forum for a sensible answer.

Will do for further input.

[NeverSure]

I feel very, very bad about your family and the baby. It is a deep grief the no one should suffer.

I hope it will get better for you soon.

I have to tell you that I'm with Beetlejuice on this one. Sorry.

Yes, you and your family were wronged by a lack of confidentiality. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Going up to that doctor in front of someone else and chewing her butt made you an enemy. TIT and also the whole world.

In my whole life if I haven't learned anything, I've learned to do my best not to leave enemies in my path. Somehow it comes back to bite me. People like revenge, the world over. What you may pay for the privilege of bawling the woman out may be far greater than what you would have paid by sucking it up.

Also, Thais will stick together. The word will be out. The farang is crazy and mean. This affects your whole family into the future.

Yes you can try to file official complaints or whatever you see fit but you will just dig yourself in deeper. The Thais will stick together and it will get worse for you. You will wind up where you feel you need to move to somewhere else.

If you don't learn to go with the flow most of the time, and not fight things, you are going to be miserable. You were wronged - terribly wronged, but you're not in Kansas.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss. My best to your whole family.

Edited April 21, 2013 by NeverSure

[Kitsune]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

Whatever about depending on the community for help this scenario is nothing of the sort. In Thailand, there is doctor patient confidentiality, so you cant say anything about western values and accuse someone of not being able to adapt to a new culture, in fact I think it's just a cheap shot at the OP on your behalf, happens all the time on TV.

Adapting to the culture is learning the language, learning and going along with customs, and yes accepting that things are different and handled differently from your native country. The local doctor going around the village spouting your business does not fall in any if those brackets.

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

+1

[NeverSure]

Sorry to have to say this, but I don`t think the OP will ever adapt or that living in Thailand is suitable for him and appears to have no common sense.

In many of the villages, including where my family and I live, the locals are still very much a community and when events happen, good or bad, everyone wants to become involved and be a part of what is happening with a neighbor. This does not mean they are nosey neighbors or just trying to stick their noses into other peoples business just for the sake of. I believe this is wonderful, lovely people showing concern and taking interest. Having lived in a local community for many years, but still being an outsider, I and my family have come to respect and rely on those such as doctors, other professionals and our closest neighbors for all sorts of things in the past

Shouting, insulting and showing outright disrespect to a member of the Thai medical profession and making her lose face either directly or in front of others is certainly not the way to make friends and influence people here in Thailand. In fact this will archive an opposite effect of making himself and family despised. The one fact that should be learned and noted; is that it`s not what you know, but who you know that gains desirable results here. Who knows, perhaps in the future, if the OP suffered a heart attack or a serious medical problem and urgently required medical attention, the doctor may not be interested and also considering that the word gets round.

Our thequiteman`s lack of community spirit and Western attitudes is one of my main reasons why I would not welcome having a farang as a neighbor. In some cases it can prove very embarrassing by they’re unwillingness to adapt their Western attitudes and even to slightly assimilate into a country that is playing host to them.

What happened is no big deal, chill out and live a stress free life in peace here.

My sincere sympathy over the loss of the baby and hope the lady makes a full recovery.

Whatever about depending on the community for help this scenario is nothing of the sort. In Thailand, there is doctor patient confidentiality, so you cant say anything about western values and accuse someone of not being able to adapt to a new culture, in fact I think it's just a cheap shot at the OP on your behalf, happens all the time on TV.

Adapting to the culture is learning the language, learning and going along with customs, and yes accepting that things are different and handled differently from your native country. The local doctor going around the village spouting your business does not fall in any if those brackets.

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Technically you are correct. In every aspect you are correct.

If being correct is more important than having friends and being well thought of in the community then go for it.

At least two bad things will happen. You will have an enemy, and you will be the outsider who is not well thought of.

Especially in LOS were there is face, you will not win, but you will lose.

If you are not a Thai especially, you will pay for your right to be correct.

[JaiLai]

A lot of what has been said about the Thais sticking together is SO true but for me this does not mean I will get 'walked all over' by going with the flow. Bare in mind most Thais have no conscience / morals or ethics....

If I think something is wrong I would also make a noise - <deleted> em!

[NeverSure]

A lot of what has been said about the Thais sticking together is SO true but for me this does not mean I will get 'walked all over' by going with the flow. Bare in mind most Thais have no conscience / morals or ethics....

If I think something is wrong I would also make a noise - <deleted> em!

I can't argue the "rightness" of any of this. It's the fair way and the way it should be, and for me it is the truth.

But life isn't fair.

Do this "right thing," and pay the price. Up to you.

[Beetlejuice]

A lot of what has been said about the Thais sticking together is SO true but for me this does not mean I will get 'walked all over' by going with the flow. Bare in mind most Thais have no conscience / morals or ethics....

If I think something is wrong I would also make a noise - <deleted> em!

What happened to make you so bitter and twisted? Could it be that some Thai person did walk all over you?

Taking into consideration your extreme anti Thai views, I suggest you don`t change your avatar, as it`s 100% apt in your case.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[JaiLai]

A lot of what has been said about the Thais sticking together is SO true but for me this does not mean I will get 'walked all over' by going with the flow. Bare in mind most Thais have no conscience / morals or ethics....

If I think something is wrong I would also make a noise - <deleted> em!

What happened to make you so bitter and twisted? Could it be that some Thai person did walk all over you?

Taking into consideration your extreme anti Thai views, I suggest you don`t change your avatar, as it`s 100% apt in your case.

No one has walked all over me although not through lack of trying, would I have done some things differently had I known then what I know now then off course, yes.

My views I would not say are 'anti Thai' just the truth from experiences over the years

[NeverSure]

A lot of what has been said about the Thais sticking together is SO true but for me this does not mean I will get 'walked all over' by going with the flow. Bare in mind most Thais have no conscience / morals or ethics....

If I think something is wrong I would also make a noise - <deleted> em!

What happened to make you so bitter and twisted? Could it be that some Thai person did walk all over you?

Taking into consideration your extreme anti Thai views, I suggest you don`t change your avatar, as it`s 100% apt in your case.

No one has walked all over me although not through lack of trying, would I have done some things differently had I known then what I know now then off course, yes.

My views I would not say are 'anti Thai' just the truth from experiences over the years

I can't disagree with anything you're saying. Nothing. Well, except maybe the anti-Thai part, but there's plenty of that on this forum and sometimes I also feel frustration with some of them.

It's just that in the long haul, a farang cannot win against them. Eventually they will wear you down. If you seriously cause one to lose face in the neighborhood or village in front of others, especially an "important" person like a doctor, it will catch up with you.

I still contend that over time, it isn't worth it. When in Rome...