A Prostitute's Take On Thai Cartoon Uproar

[Morakot]

So hang on, a writer at The Nation wrote this article, pretending to be a prostitute? If so, how xxxxxx up and "wrong" is that?

Why?

[Thait Spot]

Make of it what you may, there are some very nice points made.

At the cost of denigrating the people of Thailand?

If the Nation wishes to criticize the PM outright, I support its right to do so.

However, I draw the line at the use of hurtful racist articles that the editors know will be misunderstood or misinterpreted. It's not journalism. A responsible journalist can make his/her point without resorting to guttersnipe behaviour. I'm sure the folks at the Nation stood about giggling and patting each other on the back on just how smart they think they are.

Selling one's soul vs selling one's body

Doing something illegal - but doing the country a service

A profession bringing in lots of currency

Reduction is sex crimes and wife beatings (what's the dishonourable PTP member for Don Muang called again?)

Yingluck thinking only of her reputation and failing to consider those of the oldest profession

The framing of Abhisit and his response to it.

Defending the right to free speech as part of a democracy

The wish keep her profession out of politics as it smears it's honest reputation

Putting lying, twisting politicians beneath those who badmouth prostitutes

Sexism in ignoring the males in her profession

Criticising the faux-feminism of the PTP females

-------------------

Sounds like a lot of society's ills being addressed there

[Thai at Heart]

The underlying premise is wrong. The PM has not sold the country. Not one inch of Thailand has been sold.

Heck, they are having trouble just selling rice.

"The PM has not sold the country" Come on now, you must be kidding or you are living with (and influenced by) a lovely 'Issan' lady whose family is 'red shirt' and been bought (for a small amount) into believing that the Shinawatra's are 'good people'. The truth that even most blind people can see is that they (Shinawatra's) are all out to 'feather their own nests' only ( as in the Savanaphumi Airport land acquisition), and will do so at the expense of those 'poor' people who love them best - those 'poor' people (with such good hearts) are being 'used', and for lack of education, they can't see it. That, at least in my opinion, is how the Shinawatras got their foot-hold. They knew the cheapest way to buy the largest number of votes was to target the 'poor people' and those farmers who never had an opportunity to get an education. A little money or 'benefits' will impress them easily, then they are on your side and at a cheap price.

It's an old political expression thrown around from a time when western traders were above the law in Thailand. Doing business with foreigners should not be obviously done to harm the country. It's a very serious accusation of disloyalty.

Normally comes up when discussing land ownership for foreigners, at which point all politicians MUST get behind the flag, and all reasoned discussion ends.

I.e. Thais will put up with corruption, thievery, dishonesty and all the rest, but selling the country. Now that is a very very serious accusation that goes beyond the pail.

Ironically, one could actually say he's got it all wrong, because she could be accused of buying it very cheap.

[metisdead]

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed:

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[gemini81]

SEXUAL FAMINE!!! That's the definite highlight of this post in my book!!! ;-)

And chauvinistic society. Yeah, common street English from street meat.

[rubl]

A clearly sarcastic or even cynical article playing with hyperbole. The only thing which amazes me is that the sad humour of the article seems lost on most here. IMHO.

[geriatrickid]

A clearly sarcastic or even cynical article playing with hyperbole. The only thing which amazes me is that the sad humour of the article seems lost on most here. IMHO.

Sir, that was one sorry attempt at sarcasm. It was a poorly thought out, and constructed opinion piece. A skilled editorial writer can effectively use prose to shred someone with the result being that people may disagree with the position but will appreciate the quality of writing and even see the point. In this case, what we have is an intentionally malicious personal opinion that failed because the focus is now on the manner in which the opinion was expressed. Quality editorialists do not write articles like this. People with some semblance of decency and integrity do not do things like this, and newspapers that have professional standards will not print such abusive trash. The writer could have made his point, and even alluded to calling his target a whore without going for a dip in a toilet brimming with feces.

Edited May 8, 2013 by geriatrickid

[candypants]

A clearly sarcastic or even cynical article playing with hyperbole. The only thing which amazes me is that the sad humour of the article seems lost on most here. IMHO.

Sir, that was one sorry attempt at sarcasm. It was a poorly thought out, and constructed opinion piece. A skilled editorial writer can effectively use prose to shred someone with the result being that people may disagree with the position but will appreciate the quality of writing and even see the point. In this case, what we have is an intentionally malicious personal opinion that failed because the focus is now on the manner in which the opinion was expressed. Quality editorialists do not write articles like this. People with some semblance of decency and integrity do not do things like this, and newspapers that have professional standards will not print such abusive trash. The writer could have made his point, and even alluded to calling his target a whore without going for a dip in a toilet brimming with feces.

indeed, take the post above as a prime example of hw0 excessive rhetoric and even hyperbole can detract from a writer's credibility.

[rubl]

I guess some posters here don't like the 'Borowitz reports' either. Well, that's life

If this article was about a Thai senator of the right color (amd probably even one of the wrong color) we'd have a bit of a problem I guess :

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/05/mark-sanford-comeback-gives-hope-to-liars.html

Edited May 8, 2013 by rubl

[AZBill]

Clearly a fake article. Too much American slang and jargon that no Thai hooker could possibly know. But the real tell is that no Thai hooker could stay awake long enough to write all of this!

[Locationthailand]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

[metisdead]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

In that case, take it up with the source of the article rather than post here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/contactus/

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

[Morakot]

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

But if it did, it'd probably be the best news articles in the world.

: Probably the best internet discussion forum in the world.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Morakot

[PoodMaiDai]

Thais do love a good cartoon. Be it real cartoons or their silly shows with cartoon sound effects and slapstick comedy, it is great food for a child's mind.

[noitom]

Incredible to see this! However he does note that the girls could bring the country to its knees with a work stoppage. At least he is aware of the true backbone of the Thai economy. Hats off to the girls. The author would be well served to read Private Dancer and get the real dialog and style down. But at least he is facing the facts.

[Thait Spot]

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

But if it did, it'd probably be the best news articles in the world.

: Probably the best internet discussion forum in the world.

You need lots of Carlsberg

[geriatrickid]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

In that case, take it up with the source of the article rather than post here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/contactus/

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

Nice try, but that does not allow an individual, or an commercial entity to avoid responsibility for actively disseminating the article. You do realize that one not need be the author of an article or the sponsor of an act to be held liable for the damage such an article or an act causes. Your argument is akin to web hosting companies for some questionable groups that argued, hey don't blame us, we didn't put the content up. It didn't work for them, and it doesn't work as an argument for you now.

I appreciate that every website needs content, However, just as one does not post all of the Nation's articles, it perhaps might have been in good taste and decency to have given this article a pass too. Freedom of expression is an important right. However, along with it goes the responsibility of behaving appropriately.

[Andre0720]

Please find me a prostitute in Thailand that understands and knows how to use hypocritical and I will believe this was actually written by a pro.

Yes,

And also find me a prostitute in Thailand who can write a 3 paragraphs letter, let alone a 14 paragraphs one, and I could believe...

[Morakot]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

In that case, take it up with the source of the article rather than post here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/contactus/

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

Nice try, but that does not allow an individual, or an commercial entity to avoid responsibility for actively disseminating the article. You do realize that one not need be the author of an article or the sponsor of an act to be held liable for the damage such an article or an act causes. Your argument is akin to web hosting companies for some questionable groups that argued, hey don't blame us, we didn't put the content up. It didn't work for them, and it doesn't work as an argument for you now.

I appreciate that every website needs content, However, just as one does not post all of the Nation's articles, it perhaps might have been in good taste and decency to have given this article a pass too. Freedom of expression is an important right. However, along with it goes the responsibility of behaving appropriately.

The impartial TVF one behalf of The Nation! In all fairness, there are not only streams of Nation articles in the Thailand news section, but bizarrely a substantial amount of press releases by the National News Bureau of Thailand (a quasi governmental body under the Government Relations Department).

Edited May 9, 2013 by Morakot

[candypants]

Incredible to see this! However he does note that the girls could bring the country to its knees with a work stoppage. At least he is aware of the true backbone of the Thai economy. Hats off to the girls. The author would be well served to read Private Dancer and get the real dialog and style down. But at least he is facing the facts.

i would suggest that prostitution is not the real backbone of the thai economy, and go so much further to add that anyone who cites private dancer as a source of authority is pretty difficult to take seriously

[candypants]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

In that case, take it up with the source of the article rather than post here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/contactus/

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

Nice try, but that does not allow an individual, or an commercial entity to avoid responsibility for actively disseminating the article. You do realize that one not need be the author of an article or the sponsor of an act to be held liable for the damage such an article or an act causes. Your argument is akin to web hosting companies for some questionable groups that argued, hey don't blame us, we didn't put the content up. It didn't work for them, and it doesn't work as an argument for you now.

I appreciate that every website needs content, However, just as one does not post all of the Nation's articles, it perhaps might have been in good taste and decency to have given this article a pass too. Freedom of expression is an important right. However, along with it goes the responsibility of behaving appropriately.

you alone in this thread seem to be offended by this article though when asked to explain why it is so offensive, you resort to scatalogical imagery.

you cite the nations track record where the sex trade and prostitutes are concerned, but the article seems to offer no insult to prostitutes, instead it takes a poke at hypocrisy in government, politics and spin doctoring.

your distaste for this article is apparent, but the reasons for it are in no way obvious.

[geriatrickid]

Sorry but this is a rubbish article the way it has been written. If it has a point put it in third person and report it as an interview.

In that case, take it up with the source of the article rather than post here:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/contactus/

Thai Visa does not write the news articles.

Nice try, but that does not allow an individual, or an commercial entity to avoid responsibility for actively disseminating the article. You do realize that one not need be the author of an article or the sponsor of an act to be held liable for the damage such an article or an act causes. Your argument is akin to web hosting companies for some questionable groups that argued, hey don't blame us, we didn't put the content up. It didn't work for them, and it doesn't work as an argument for you now.

I appreciate that every website needs content, However, just as one does not post all of the Nation's articles, it perhaps might have been in good taste and decency to have given this article a pass too. Freedom of expression is an important right. However, along with it goes the responsibility of behaving appropriately.

you alone in this thread seem to be offended by this article though when asked to explain why it is so offensive, you resort to scatalogical imagery.

you cite the nations track record where the sex trade and prostitutes are concerned, but the article seems to offer no insult to prostitutes, instead it takes a poke at hypocrisy in government, politics and spin doctoring.

your distaste for this article is apparent, but the reasons for it are in no way obvious.

I doubt I am alone. Perhaps I am just more willing to waste my time hammering the point home and not let the guttersnipes take over..

You ask why I am offended. Well, there is now a thread going which sets out some reasons.

It is inappropriate to call the PM of Thailand a whore. The issue is compounded by the fact that the people doing this wouldn't dare call a male PM a whore.

Satirists can make their point and leave people uncomfortable, but a good satirist uses his/her words carefully. The man that wrote the opinion piece relied upon the negative stereotype of Thai women that is etched in many foreigner's minds. It was downright malicious and poorly done. It pandered to the lowest common denominator. Worse, it ridiculed a segment of the Thai population that suffers enough abuse in our society. No doubt some TVFers will disagree, but I'd be willing to wager they are the foreigners with successive failed relationships with women and who blame everyone but themselves for those failures. Is it so hard to offer some respect to Thai women?

Edited May 9, 2013 by geriatrickid

[Artisi]

I doubt I am alone. Perhaps I am just more willing to waste my time hammering the point home and not let the guttersnipes take over..

You ask why I am offended. Well, there is now a thread going which sets out some reasons.

It is inappropriate to call the PM of Thailand a whore. The issue is compounded by the fact that the people doing this wouldn't dare call a male PM a whore.

Satirists can make their point and leave people uncomfortable, but a good satirist uses his/her words carefully. The man that wrote the opinion piece relied upon the negative stereotype of Thai women that is etched in many foreigner's minds. It was downright malicious and poorly done. It pandered to the lowest common denominator. Worse, it ridiculed a segment of the Thai population that suffers enough abuse in our society. No doubt some TVFers will disagree, but I'd be willing to wager they are the foreigners with successive failed relationships with women and who blame everyone but themselves for those failures. Is it so hard to offer some respect to Thai women?

I wasn't actually offended as such after reading the article, just left wondering why such a load of horse sh1t was put to print - but then that's the NATION for you, just more nonsense trying to pass itself off as newsworthy.

[JulesMad]

does someones know where I can find the famous "infamous" cartoon?!? I want to judge for myself...

I love cartoons, and they should be a bit provocative, if to have any effect!!! This cartoon has definitely 'effect' .... where to see it?????

[Evolare]

Even yingluck wouldn't have been able to write that. Her english is terrible. Not sure what that makes her but stupid, or as her brother would say "I am not care".

How many foreign PMs or Presidents speak good Thai?

They may be stupid or they may not be.

Well the difference there is that yingluck have studied english alot more than they jave studied thai as it is a world language and have actually lived and studied in the USA but i guess you didnt know that...

[Docno]

How many foreign PMs or Presidents speak good Thai?

At a guess, probably none, speaking Thai is not generally considered to be a requirement for non-Thai PM's.

And why should the PM of Thailand be faulted on her English? Why should faultless Engish be a requirement for her job? Have you heard how well the typical leaders of China, Japan, and S Korea speak English? (Most of the time, you won't even hear them attempt it -- they'll use a translator).

Do they have advanced graduate degrees obtained using English?

I used to teach at one of the top universities in Asia (based in Singapore) ... in fact, this week it was ranked #8 in the world by one organisation. I taught mostly in a graduate programme, and the majority of doctoral students were from China. Their spoken English was no better than Yingluck's. That was regarded as less important than their ability to think, conduct good research, and write strong research reports in English. When it comes to a second language, speaking and writing capability do not always go hand in hand. But that was fine: our priority was on skills other than spoken English. A lot of our graduates ended up with jobs in good universities in the US and elsewhere, so we were obviously not wrong in this. So it doesn't bother or surprise me that Yingluck's English speaking skills are not perfect despite having a Masters degree...

[brd199]

How many foreign PMs or Presidents speak good Thai?

At a guess, probably none, speaking Thai is not generally considered to be a requirement for non-Thai PM's.

And why should the PM of Thailand be faulted on her English? Why should faultless Engish be a requirement for her job? Have you heard how well the typical leaders of China, Japan, and S Korea speak English? (Most of the time, you won't even hear them attempt it -- they'll use a translator).

Do they have advanced graduate degrees obtained using English?

I used to teach at one of the top universities in Asia (based in Singapore) ... in fact, this week it was ranked #8 in the world by one organisation. I taught mostly in a graduate programme, and the majority of doctoral students were from China. Their spoken English was no better than Yingluck's. That was regarded as less important than their ability to think, conduct good research, and write strong research reports in English. When it comes to a second language, speaking and writing capability do not always go hand in hand. But that was fine: our priority was on skills other than spoken English. A lot of our graduates ended up with jobs in good universities in the US and elsewhere, so we were obviously not wrong in this. So it doesn't bother or surprise me that Yingluck's English speaking skills are not perfect despite having a Masters degree...

It doesn't "bother" me, but it is surprising as oral skills are just as important as writing when obtaining a Masters degree in the USA. It's a shame your highly ranked school in Singapore didn't put much emphasis on that, but it's understandable that your Chinese students would use Chinese in Singapore during all their time out of the classroom. She would not have had that situation and one would expect her complete immersion in English would have produced a much better communicator than she is.

No one is expecting "perfect English", but the general consensus is that her English is not commensurate with her resume.

Edited May 10, 2013 by brd199

[maidu]

I didn't like the article for its writing style. It was painful to read, so I didn't take the time to discern what points it was trying to take. I saw enough of it to gauge that the writer did a crappy job at pretending to be a prostitute and coyly writing in the style that a poorly educated street worker might use. Nothing witty, cute or realistic about the writing style. I've never before thought of asking for a retraction to a newspaper article, but I'll have to make an exception here. The Nation should do something tangible to distance themselves from the problematic article. Either dismiss the writer or publish a retraction, or do something to show that they may have a modicum of decency.

Edited May 11, 2013 by maidu