Move Carefully On Boosting Military Ties With China

[nietzche]

China is looking to expand its military-to-military ties with Thailand, and Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat thinks it's a good idea.I don't think is good idea at all.I would never trust the chinese because they are aiming something else

What does either China or the U.S. want with Thailand? Really??

Thailand is a pawn here, yet they do not realize it.

Thailand is as much of an ally to the U.S. as Vietnam was in the 60's and 70's. It's a place to park their bombers and dock their submarines, and stage their wars.

China is no better. No matter what rhetoric comes out of Beijing, the Chinese see themselves as the future rulers of South East Asia. Just look how they treat other small asian nations who they have disputes with: intimidation, etc. (South China Sea). Thailand is no more special than Vietnam or the Philippines.

Myanmar went running into the arms of the U.S. after they discovered what it was like to be an Ally of the Chinese.

This minister is naive if he believes that Thailand can play both of sides to their advantage. When you try to please all the people, you end up pleasing no one.

The wisest thing for Thailand would be to stay the hell out of this, and focus on fixing their domestic political situation.

Is this minister the same guy who was begging John Kerry not to downgrade Thailand on the human trafficking list last week??

[chainarong]

Glad my second home here is just that. I am so glad I planned an exit strategy. In a few years I may need it.

I am leaving next month, there's a coup before the China nightmare, which will never happen , when China See's what Thailand is all about, Thailand then manifests into a liability

[dunque]

I wouldn't trust China, their track record is one of control ,in countries they have been able to get a foot hold in, they've been also kicked out of countries with investment, Myanmar comes to mind, the US haven't left the area, they have repositioned , bases are now being either built or expanded in Australia, Northern territory and West Australia ,now have Us personal there , which caters for all types of military hardware, including submarines and the reason for this coming about , Strong Democracy , political base, same beliefs and aims as US, and the emergence of China becoming a dominant power in the region, the reason why the US has left Thailand behind speaks for it's self, who would be bothered with a government that wont allow the opposition the right to an interview with a foreign press, but then again you do fit in with the principles of China, I'd love to see the western embassies daily reports to their respective countries .

Hmmm, I did not realise that KSA had an outspoken opposition - perhaps you could provide a few links to thei interviews with th foreign press.

[EyesWideOpen]

The inevitable war between the US and China will undoubtebly happen, there is no way either of their egos would be able to exist on the same planet without a WWIII being the result

Korea and this dance that we are seeing for the next few years is just the priming. China is collecting its allies in a carefully and calculated way, using the we are Asean policy to unite its boundaries.

The US will now start to use its tactics to block them and slow them down while the US recovers, but lets face it... It will happen, and has already started, and just how many allies will china have not just in Asia but the far east when push comes to shove.

Well if the U.S wants it don't come calling on others to help them. They can fight it on thier own.

I agree, wars with coalition partners is too cumbersome. Better to blast ahead by yourself.... :-)

But wars using physical hardware seems to be a antique notion. Wars now are being fought on a financial level. Where land and control is being bought, not fought over. To see how this is done, you need to look no farther than Laos, which has been bought out by China . Or see what China has done in Africa.

With a financial war, America would stop all Chinese imports overnight, and declare China's holding of US debt as void. Not really sure what China would do......

So in essence countries like Thailand are just trying to align themselves with who they think will be the winning side in the future conflict between China and America. Thailand picked the losing side with Japan in WW2, and if they blow off America to side with China I think they will lose again. But this decision is not neutral, due to the overwhelming Thai-Chinese leadership and their natural alignment with the motherland.

But I think as usual, Thailand who considers itself a master ofplaying major powers against each other, will try to play both sides at once.

Yep - and how many wars have the US won when fighting on their own? Mexico, Philipinnes? Real class opisition. China can match the US for man power, equipment and technology. China has never been an agressive nation, loosing to the British in the Opium Wars, and being bullied, massacred and raped by the Japanese repeatedly. All that seems to have changed. China is not the fragmented unorganized empires of the past.

If the US declared China's US debt holding void, they would be no better than a bankrupt state like Argentina. Europe, other than the UK, can no longer be counted on to back US one-sided actions and decisions that only benefit the US. Who knows which way the Russians, Indian, and Pakistanis would jump.

Like all potential "playground bullies" the US needs a counter balance to check the exteme behaviours. China is the only country capable of filling that role.

The US is in decline in its World role, no matter how unpalletable that may be to some Americans.

You are right though, in that if anyone can play off superpowers and always come up winning it will be Thailand.

"China can match the US for man power, equipment and technology."

Wow.....keep up on the news much ???

I, as an American taxpayer, will be very happy to see the end of America as the world's policeman. A sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't, problem. Syria is a good example of that. Am tired of seeing my dollars spent and Americans dying to keep peace. I say stop every dollar of American aid, and pull back every American service man.

Regarding Asia and the designs China clearly has on the area, let each country pay American for protection if they want it. If Thailand wants to leap into bed with China , no problem. If you sleep with a dog, you wake up with fleas. Thailand of course does not share a border with China, so they do not seem to be very worried....

Edited May 12, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[asiamaster]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

[asiamaster]

As part owners of Laos and their huge Industrial Park just across the river from The Golden Triangle in Laos they are moving 1 million people there. What kind of defense treaty would Thailand have to keep them out of Chiang Rai.

Not only there but as far south as Pakse in Southern Laos they have migrated people. Now take a guess what kind of Chinese people these are?

[EyesWideOpen]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

Uhhhh.....The Mongols went through China like a hot knife through

butter. Pretty much the same thing that Japan did to China in World War 2...

Edited May 12, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[Frank James]

Myanmar and Laos are already vassal states to China. There's room in that big bed for Thailand, too, but baby, if you do, you'll be crying yourself to sleep every night.

They should put the figure of PacMan on that pretty red flag of theirs, for that is who they resemble these days. Never take your eyes off the Dragon. Sure, trade, negotiate, work for peace, but be ready to go toe to toe at any time.

[Frank James]

PS: The Thai Ladies Volleyball Team put a good beating on those China Dolls last year, and I can't wait for the season to start, to see them do it again. Onuma!!

[asiamaster]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

Uhhhh.....The Mongols went through China like a hot knife through

butter. Pretty much the same thing that Japan did to China in World War 2...

In the days of the Kahns the empire stretched from Siberia all the way to the Middle East . As for South East Asia in those days it was mostly jungle- apart from the Khmer Empire (Angkor Wat). The Khmer empire in those days also included what is now Laos and Thailand. They were threatened by the Mongols under Kublai Kahn's general Sogetu. The king of Angkor avoided war his powerful opponent , who at this time ruled over all China and beyond by paying annual tribute to him.

Will history repeat itself?

[chiangmaikelly]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

So the Mongols were Chinese?

[JeremyBowskill]

Has no one heard of the Chinese "two ocean strategy" ?

Mark my words: the days of the Mongol Empire will return...

Uhhhh.....The Mongols went through China like a hot knife through

butter. Pretty much the same thing that Japan did to China in World War 2...

In the days of the Kahns the empire stretched from Siberia all the way to the Middle East . As for South East Asia in those days it was mostly jungle- apart from the Khmer Empire (Angkor Wat). The Khmer empire in those days also included what is now Laos and Thailand. They were threatened by the Mongols under Kublai Kahn's general Sogetu. The king of Angkor avoided war his powerful opponent , who at this time ruled over all China and beyond by paying annual tribute to him.

Will history repeat itself?

Given an infinite amount of time no doubt history would repeat itself, hell given long even Britain could become Great Britain again. Unfortunately mankind will have probably blown itself to kingdom come before that. Quite who leads the charge, your guess is as good as mine.......

[Markaew]

Where does it end? To what degree? What level of stupid is enough?

This government (these Thai people) seem incensed to dance with the devil. China is is the odd man out. They (Thais) can decide if they are in or they are out. Apparently, Thais have agreed with China. Not surprisingly, they have sided with China. Now the downward slope. How many lessons need to be taught? How many warning can you plead?

The hand writing is on the wall. Thailand is as stupid as it had ever been and they display this with the ignorance that everyone has suspected. Now it is in full display.

[Renbe]

With friends like the US, one hardly needs any enemies. China is practically Thailand's neighbor, and the US is on the other side of the world. How many Thai people have a Chinese ancestry, and how many have an American ancestry? The future lies in the East. The choice is easy.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Renbe

[CPT]

This will certainly make Thailand less welcome at the next ASEAN conference. With most of ASEAN (even vietnam) deepening ties with the US in response to heated disputes with China regarding the South China Sea, one has to wonder what role Thailand really wants in this regional association. One would think that Thailand could gain influence within the region by turning down China and brokering an agreement between the many states involved. They should not align themselves against China, just be careful with how close they get.

[rijb]

With friends like the US, one hardly needs any enemies. China is practically Thailand's neighbor, and the US is on the other side of the world. How many Thai people have a Chinese ancestry, and how many have an American ancestry? The future lies in the East. The choice is easy.

The world is getting smaller. Someday, it might be possible to go around the world in 80 days!

[EyesWideOpen]

With friends like the US, one hardly needs any enemies. China is practically Thailand's neighbor, and the US is on the other side of the world. How many Thai people have a Chinese ancestry, and how many have an American ancestry? The future lies in the East. The choice is easy.

A grim future.....After seeing China seize Tibet, gobble up Laos like a snack, and move into mega sabre rattling mode in the South China Sea by claiming practically every island out there as " former" Chinese territory, I am frankly astounded that Thailand would even consider a closer relation with China......

Regarding who should be allies with who, do some research and see what China has done for Thailand over the years, and what America has done for Thailand over the years. You will find a considerable difference between the actions of the two countries.. :-)

[chiangmaikelly]

Where does it end? To what degree? What level of stupid is enough?

This government (these Thai people) seem incensed to dance with the devil. China is is the odd man out. They (Thais) can decide if they are in or they are out. Apparently, Thais have agreed with China. Not surprisingly, they have sided with China. Now the downward slope. How many lessons need to be taught? How many warning can you plead?

The hand writing is on the wall. Thailand is as stupid as it had ever been and they display this with the ignorance that everyone has suspected. Now it is in full display.

If one looks at Thai alliances for the past 80 years and compares the war dead and economic conditions of other countries from then until now what other country has done better?

[rakman]

I see China as a country who does a lot of good in the world producing cost effective products that we all use. I haven't observed the Chinese government threatening others as the North Korean government does. U.S. may need to move some balance of forces to the Philippines and other locations from Japan due to the Japanese nuclear radiation problems and probability for even worse earthquakes. I don't think its due to any military problems with the Chinese. I don't think it would hurt for Thailand to keep open the lines of communications with the Chinese including military forces.

Ask yourself how many countries has China ever invaded or used covert operations to overthrow the legal government in another country?

China is much more clever and subtle and uses economic skill to achieve influence. Just how much of the enormous US debt is owned by China.

PTP better be careful, Barry O will get upset and withdraw his administrations staunch support for the democratically elected populist peoples party if they get to close to China.

China - aren't the Shin clan ethnically Chinese, and does China operate a one party "democracy" favoured by the clan head? Hmm seems to be some synergies here. Maybe the " special friendly criminal" the US issued a visa too, ignoring their normal rules, ain't that friendly after all.

Some interesting possibilities here.

"Ask yourself how many countries has China ever invaded or used covert operations to overthrow the legal government in another country?"

How about Tibet ?? Nothing covert there, China rolled in with heavy equipment...In the past China was too busy killing its own people to ever have any presence on the world stage, but taking over Tibet looked pretty easy .....

US debit is about 16 trillion dollars, China holds slightly over 1 trillion dollars, about the same as Japan. Most of the US debt is held internally.

When China finally get its navy in shape ( currently now a joke) , and starts taking control of islands in the South China Sea, I wonder who those countries will be asking for help from.....

Before Thailand gets too cozy with China, Thailand had better start paying more attention to what China is doing with their economic aid for control program....Regardless of what the moronic leaders of Thailand think, any deal done with China is in essence a deal done with the devil, with the harmful details being found out later. There is no free ride.

Also, how about China's moves on India:

http://thediplomat.com/the-naval-diplomat/2013/05/07/chinas-great-india-folly/

China is also having internal economic issues, the "ghost towns" they build help to make their economy look bigger than it is. A lot of media is pushing the importance of China, just as the media did with the Soviet Union before the breakup.

Every nation has ups and downs in their economies, in the '70's Japan was the "new world power", according to the media, but the bubble burst and put them in 30 years of stagnation. China's demographics are also similar. The US is still the largest manufacturer and starting to grow again. Many manufacturers, even foreign ones, are relocating back to the US as the economics of the worlds "cheap" labor spots dry up.

While the US has done some pretty stupid foreign policy blunders, who would you rather have maintaining some stability in the world?

Edited May 12, 2013 by rakman

[EyesWideOpen]

Where does it end? To what degree? What level of stupid is enough?

This government (these Thai people) seem incensed to dance with the devil. China is is the odd man out. They (Thais) can decide if they are in or they are out. Apparently, Thais have agreed with China. Not surprisingly, they have sided with China. Now the downward slope. How many lessons need to be taught? How many warning can you plead?

The hand writing is on the wall. Thailand is as stupid as it had ever been and they display this with the ignorance that everyone has suspected. Now it is in full display.

If one looks at Thai alliances for the past 80 years and compares the war dead and economic conditions of other countries from then until now what other country has done better?

??? Only the intervention of America during the post war settlements prevented Thailand from being carved up a like a pumpkin by other allies that were far more angry about Thailand siding with Japan. After the Death Railroad, the Brits and the Aussies had no warm and fuzzy feelings towards Thailand. So basically Thailand got lucky and dodged a bullet, it was not part of some magnificent strategy on the part of the Thai government at the time.....

From Wikipedia:

"Postwar accommodations with the Allies also weakened the civilian government. As a result of the contributions made to the Allied war efforts by the Free Thai Movement, the United States, which unlike the other Allies had never officially been at war with Thailand, refrained from dealing with Thailand as an enemy country in postwar peace negotiations."

[chiangmaikelly]

Where does it end? To what degree? What level of stupid is enough?

This government (these Thai people) seem incensed to dance with the devil. China is is the odd man out. They (Thais) can decide if they are in or they are out. Apparently, Thais have agreed with China. Not surprisingly, they have sided with China. Now the downward slope. How many lessons need to be taught? How many warning can you plead?

The hand writing is on the wall. Thailand is as stupid as it had ever been and they display this with the ignorance that everyone has suspected. Now it is in full display.

If one looks at Thai alliances for the past 80 years and compares the war dead and economic conditions of other countries from then until now what other country has done better?

??? Only the intervention of America during the post war settlements prevented Thailand from being carved up a like a pumpkin by other allies that were far more angry about Thailand siding with Japan. After the Death Railroad, the Brits and the Aussies had no warm and fuzzy feelings towards Thailand. So basically Thailand got lucky and dodged a bullet, it was not part of some magnificent strategy on the part of the Thai government at the time.....

From Wikipedia:

"Postwar accommodations with the Allies also weakened the civilian government. As a result of the contributions made to the Allied war efforts by the Free Thai Movement, the United States, which unlike the other Allies had never officially been at war with Thailand, refrained from dealing with Thailand as an enemy country in postwar peace negotiations."

Thailand allied itself with Japan during the war and with America after the war. Yes that is correct. And now China.

[atsiii]

Close ties with the USA during the "communist threat" era (exaggerated as it was!) did nothing but create hundreds of new corrupt Millionaires within the ranks of the Thai military. As those endless sources of US cash have generally dried up in the post conflict years, it's no surprise that the corrupt Thai military is out looking for new sugar daddies. China? Why not; they have lots of cash!

[yooper2001]

I suspect that there is alot of gas and oil under the gulf of thailand and China wants to move in to get their hands on it

China has never done anything in it's history to help another country.

Oh how soon we forget Genghis Khann

Edited May 12, 2013 by metisdead
Large font reset to normal.

[geriatrickid]

Of course the Thai military is interested in getting closer to China. China does not have those pesky laws against bribery on military material procurement that the west has. Nor do the Chinese make funding contingent on such annoyances as human rights or environmental protection safeguards. Chinese NGOs and charities do not meddle in Thailand pushing such "bad for business" concepts as fair wages and safe working conditions.

Considering the fact that China recently invaded India and has continually pushed its greater empire expansionist plans, any Thai that would propose getting closer to China should have his/her motives closely scrutinized. I find it interesting that the proponents of closer relations with China are the same groups that claim an over riding love of King and country. And yet the Chinese would destroy the Thai culture, attack the Royal House and who would consume Thailand's resources. One need only look at the recent seizures of endangered wildlife and timber to understand that China sees Thailand as a low cost larder where anything goes.

Thailand should seek peaceful relations with China and build economic ties, but it must not whore itself out so that a few can make short term profits, while leaving the rest of the population indentured servants of China.

[yoshiwara]

Of course the Thai military is interested in getting closer to China. China does not have those pesky laws against bribery on military material procurement that the west has. Nor do the Chinese make funding contingent on such annoyances as human rights or environmental protection safeguards. Chinese NGOs and charities do not meddle in Thailand pushing such "bad for business" concepts as fair wages and safe working conditions.

Considering the fact that China recently invaded India and has continually pushed its greater empire expansionist plans, any Thai that would propose getting closer to China should have his/her motives closely scrutinized. I find it interesting that the proponents of closer relations with China are the same groups that claim an over riding love of King and country. And yet the Chinese would destroy the Thai culture, attack the Royal House and who would consume Thailand's resources. One need only look at the recent seizures of endangered wildlife and timber to understand that China sees Thailand as a low cost larder where anything goes.

Thailand should seek peaceful relations with China and build economic ties, but it must not whore itself out so that a few can make short term profits, while leaving the rest of the population indentured servants of China.

Given Thaksin's record on bribery and corruption he would be right at home.

As for the ridiculous claim that China would destroy Thai culture (oh how some Thaksin apologists love to play the anti-Chinese card) maybe they should remind themselves yet again that Thaksin hails from a Thai Chinese background. As for Thailand's home grown reds an echo of Maoism rings loud and clear.

[geriatrickid]

Of course the Thai military is interested in getting closer to China. China does not have those pesky laws against bribery on military material procurement that the west has. Nor do the Chinese make funding contingent on such annoyances as human rights or environmental protection safeguards. Chinese NGOs and charities do not meddle in Thailand pushing such "bad for business" concepts as fair wages and safe working conditions.

Considering the fact that China recently invaded India and has continually pushed its greater empire expansionist plans, any Thai that would propose getting closer to China should have his/her motives closely scrutinized. I find it interesting that the proponents of closer relations with China are the same groups that claim an over riding love of King and country. And yet the Chinese would destroy the Thai culture, attack the Royal House and who would consume Thailand's resources. One need only look at the recent seizures of endangered wildlife and timber to understand that China sees Thailand as a low cost larder where anything goes.

Thailand should seek peaceful relations with China and build economic ties, but it must not whore itself out so that a few can make short term profits, while leaving the rest of the population indentured servants of China.

Given Thaksin's record on bribery and corruption he would be right at home.

As for the ridiculous claim that China would destroy Thai culture (oh how some Thaksin apologists love to play the anti-Chinese card) maybe they should remind themselves yet again that Thaksin hails from a Thai Chinese background. As for Thailand's home grown reds an echo of Maoism rings loud and clear.

Thaksin is not particularly close to the Chinese. The Chinese are capable of managing someone like Thaksin and they see him for what he is. He is expendable and treated no differently then any other local political faction leader that has a bit of a following. He is there to be used to further Chinese political goals.

You are making an error when you assume that the supporters of closer relations with China are aligned with one particular party. On the contrary, both those that sympathize with China and those that are resisters of Chinese influence cross political lines. You are also mistaken about the redshirts allegiance to China. Those redshirts have more in common with ultra nationalist yellow shirts because they want a Thailand first policy.

How is it being a Thaksin apologist to point out the historical realities of modern China when it expands its influence? One need only look at the Chinese policy in Tibet to understand that point. China set out to dismantle Tibetan culture by selecting its own Dalai Lama. Nothing new in that as the Chinese did the same thing with the once important Catholic Church in China allowing only those religious leaders and priests that complied with the party line. The monarchy in Thailand is a unifying force and an integral party of Thai identity. If China wishes to expand its influence it must get rid of the cultural and social structures that unify a people and act as a counter influence to the spread of China.

China has dumped cheap and shoddy consumer goods into the Thai market slowly but surely eroding Thailand's manufacturing sector. This slow, but steady approach has weakened Thailand's economic independence. China has dangled money and incentives in front of some entrenched greedy elites who have gladly sold out their nation for their own personal gain.

As an aside, you have allowed your obsession with Thaksin to blind you to the reality. Thaksin is far closer to some groups in the Gulf States than he is to China. He covets the Gulf State oil and their money to finance his grandiose schemes. I suggest to you that this relationship is far tighter than what he has with China although it is just as dangerous.

[NeverSure]

Thailand now gets its military hardware from the US. It gets its training from the US. Its pilots know how to fly the far superior US fighter jets, just as an example. It would lose a lot of ground in training, even in battle rifles, and in equipment superiority if it decided to align itself with China.

The US won't sell hardware or provide training to any country which allies itself with a country that isn't considered an ally. For instance, let's all belly laugh about the prospects Syria would have of buying any US weapons. They are stuck with Russian crap because that's the choice they made.

I can just see Thailand trading its M-16's for Chinese AK-47's or AK-74's. Talk about crap. Same with their "fighters." They can only dream of stealth, or of pylon mounted heads-up precision guided rockets.

China just built its first military cargo plane. What a joke and it's in the testing stages. The US, by taking the wings off that plane could literally carry it inside the US's big cargo plane. I mean it would literally fit inside, and the plane could carry the weight.

But I seriously haven't seen Thailand do anything yet that's smart. The government is a mess, they destroyed their position as a great rice exporter... I could go on but no need. It seems like they live in their own dream world.

[OzMick]

"Ask yourself how many countries has China ever invaded or used covert operations to overthrow the legal government in another country?"

How about Tibet ?? Nothing covert there, China rolled in with heavy equipment...In the past China was too busy killing its own people to ever have any presence on the world stage, but taking over Tibet looked pretty easy .....

US debit is about 16 trillion dollars, China holds slightly over 1 trillion dollars, about the same as Japan. Most of the US debt is held internally.

When China finally get its navy in shape ( currently now a joke) , and starts taking control of islands in the South China Sea, I wonder who those countries will be asking for help from.....

Before Thailand gets too cozy with China, Thailand had better start paying more attention to what China is doing with their economic aid for control program....Regardless of what the moronic leaders of Thailand think, any deal done with China is in essence a deal done with the devil, with the harmful details being found out later. There is no free ride.

You might also like to include the Chinese invasion of Viet Nam in 1979, something you won't read about in Chinese history books. While the VN were sorting Pol Pot, the Chinese invaded the far north and got their arse handed to them on a plate by border guards and local militia. The wisely withdrew before VN's better troops could be deployed.

[Publicus]

Asean countries are quietly ticked off at Thailand for not taking a stand on Beijing's aggression in the South China Sea, which is a misnomer anyway as only 2700 kim of the sea touch PRChinese shores while Asean countries share 130,000 km of the shoreline of the sea. Thailand as usual is trying to keep everyone happy by keeping quiet on the SCS issues, so of course all of Asean is upset towards Thailand, except of course Beijing's Asean vassals Cambodia and to a more passive extent, Laos.

Thailand is a formal U.S. non-Nato treaty ally which has umpteen times greater military ties to the United States than to Beijing. Still, Bangkok has had military relations with Beijing dating back to 1975. Trouble is, Thailand has bought a lot of junk Chinese military equipment it discovered it can't use. Almost all of it is permanently warehoused, useless. But Thailand got the stuff at "friendship prices" so didn't lose much money in the many deals Chavalit was able to work out during his long career.

While I was living and working in the CCP-PRC many PRChinese asked me about Thaksin and Thailand once they found out from me I'd previously spent ten years in the former LOS. The PRChinese love Thaksin, and Chavalit. Thaksin and Chavalit took Thailand closer to Beijing than any previous government. Yet the Thai military prefers the U.S. because, as a formal U.S. ally, Thailand not only gets upgraded military hardware and training, it gets technology transfers, whereas from the CCP Thailand gets only junk..

Given that 12 million Thais directly identify as Sino-Thais - that's 20% of the Thai population - even they were impressed by Prez Obama's visit to Thailand, continuing to see the United States as the exemplar of democracy and freedom. These same Sino-Thais do have a more favorable view towards the CCP-PRC, but much of that is based on the (false) anticipation that democracy is coming to the CCP-PRC .

That the Thai elites figure they can do nothing in response to Beijing's aggressions in the South China Sea, against India and against a country so heavily invested in Thailand as Japan, reflects the ignorance Thais have of matters outside of Thailand. If it isn't Thailand or about Thailand, Thais don't care and don't want to 'waste' their precious time on it, or to burden their brains about it ..

[Thai at Heart]

Of course the Thai military is interested in getting closer to China. China does not have those pesky laws against bribery on military material procurement that the west has. Nor do the Chinese make funding contingent on such annoyances as human rights or environmental protection safeguards. Chinese NGOs and charities do not meddle in Thailand pushing such "bad for business" concepts as fair wages and safe working conditions.

Considering the fact that China recently invaded India and has continually pushed its greater empire expansionist plans, any Thai that would propose getting closer to China should have his/her motives closely scrutinized. I find it interesting that the proponents of closer relations with China are the same groups that claim an over riding love of King and country. And yet the Chinese would destroy the Thai culture, attack the Royal House and who would consume Thailand's resources. One need only look at the recent seizures of endangered wildlife and timber to understand that China sees Thailand as a low cost larder where anything goes.

Thailand should seek peaceful relations with China and build economic ties, but it must not whore itself out so that a few can make short term profits, while leaving the rest of the population indentured servants of China.

Given Thaksin's record on bribery and corruption he would be right at home.

As for the ridiculous claim that China would destroy Thai culture (oh how some Thaksin apologists love to play the anti-Chinese card) maybe they should remind themselves yet again that Thaksin hails from a Thai Chinese background. As for Thailand's home grown reds an echo of Maoism rings loud and clear.

Just about anyone with any political clout or big business in Thailand is Thai Chinese.

When it comes to money and business there is zero Thai culture involved. I am amazed there isn't a Thai word for guanxi.