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Posted

HI,

i was wondering if there is someone on here who could answer a few questions i have about applying for a visa for my wife's son.

If i am corect the visa that i need is called the VAF4A (Family Settlement Application) and that i also have to fill out Appendix 1 (Family Settlement & Family Reunion) and Appendix 2 (Financial Requirment).

Now i have had a quick look over the forms and noticed a section about English Requirements. Does this apply to my wifes son (currently 13 years old). If so where do we have to send him to get a certifacte showing that he can do it and how much does it cost?

I would appreciate any help any one could offer in regard to this as i cannot seem to find anything on the internet about aquiring this document.

Many Thanks

Burbonizer

Posted

Ah sorry, forgot to mention that part, my bad.

The child is currently in Thailand and we wish him to come to the UK. My wife has been here since October 2006 and has Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Burbonizer

Posted (edited)

Children do not need to take the A1 English test. The test is for spouse and partners.

You can only submit one Appendix. In your case, as your wife has ILR, you need Appendix 1. You don't have to meet the financial requirements of Appendix FM-SE, but you do have to show that you can support and accommodate the applicant.

Edited by ThaiVisaExpress
Posted

So I only have to complete appendix 1 and not vaf4a (the main one)?

Burbonizer

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Posted

Oh and another question, do I have to adopt my wifes son to bring him to the UK?

When we finally convinced the father to sign over custody of the child last December, it was not an easy time. To now ask for his permission for me to adopt him would be basically impossible.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Posted

So I only have to complete appendix 1 and not vaf4a (the main one)?

Burbonizer

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You need the vaf4a and Appendix 1.

You don't need to have adopted the child, but your wife does have to show that she has had "sole responsibility" for her son, and that is where most applications for children to join a parent in the UK fail.

Posted

So whays the difference between sole responsibility and sole custody?

Ever since she has been in the UK she had been sending money over to feed, cloth and take care of him.

Burbonizer

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

  • 3 months later...
Posted (edited)

Hi,

I have just tried to set up an appointment for my wife to hand in the application at regent house and I have had to fill out the application form online.

They say that I should fill out appendix 2 not 1. I am really confused now.

Please help.

Oh by the way he is 14 years old and my wife has ILR.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited by Burbonizer
Posted (edited)

Who says?

Each of the appendices list who they are for, and on the list for Appendix 1 is "The child of settled parents or with one parent who has limited leave as a partner or parent granted under the Rules in force before 9 July 2012."

Whereas Appendix 2 says "The child of a parent who is applying for entry clearance as a partner or the child who is applying to join their parent who is already in the UK and has been granted limited leave as partner granted under the Immigration Rules in force on 09 July 2012"

You say your wife has ILR, therefore she is a "settled parent," therefore Appendix 1 is the correct one.

Edited by 7by7
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Hi,

thanks for the response. I will submit the Appendix 1 as first thought.

I am now really worried though about the application.

Should i submit 6 months of bank statements and wage slips for this visa application? My bank does not look nice at all as i live in a massive overdraft. Although i can live and support my family, i cannot get out of this overdraft due to living expenses in the UK. Both myself and my wife work and has her money paid into her account for which she helps with living. Her bank account is the one that she uses to send money over to Thailand to support her son yet i am the one that will be sponsoring him. So showing just my account will not be good to prove our living style in regard to money.

Will the mess that my bank is in get the application refused? If so what can i do?

Also i need to confirm that the VAF4a is the correct form as i have just found SET(F) which states on the right hand side "Child under the age of 18 of a parent, parents or a relative present and settled in the UK" Which is the same as what i am applying for.

I am so confused as to what i am doing right now and only have 3 weeks to get it all done before my wife flies out to Thailand to put the application in.

Thanks

Posted

Submit both your bank statements and your wife's.

As your wife has ILR, the financial requirement is that the child can be supported without recourse to public funds.

That you have an overdraft is not a problem; provided it is agreed with the bank and being serviced to their satisfaction.

SET(F) is for applications made within the UK, VAF4A is for applications made outside the UK. So it is VAF4A you need.

Posted (edited)

Someone has to upset the apple cart a bit, this time it will be me!

You have to produce a very convincing argument regarding 'sole responsibility' (not the same as sole custody). The level of evidence has to be extremely high to prevent the ECO rejecting the application on the grounds that the child can continue to be cared for in their home country.

The longer the period of separation the more difficult it is to build a convincing picture. Rejections appear (on this site at least!)seem to be relatively common but of course we would rarely hear about those that go through without issue.

The slightest hint of paternal involvement can lead to a refusal. Appeals are long, drawn out affairs!

For child applications where parent and child have been apart for some time would be one of the few cases where I would advise a specialist assists with the application. Make sure they are good ones too! You cannot 'unsay' things so it is far better to say the right thing in the first place!

I am not suggesting untruths but it is easy to be tripped up by ill thought out phrasing.

These are not necessarily straightforward applications.

Edited by bobrussell
Posted
The child is currently in Thailand and we wish him to come to the UK. My wife has been here since October 2006 and has Indefinite Leave to Remain.

So the ECO will be asking why he did not arrive with your wife and who has taken care of him during the last 7 years.

Why leave it so long to bring him over?

The other problem he'll face now is learning the language and completing his education to a level where he stands any chance of getting a decent job.

Posted

Don't panic about the language side of things. They pick up all the UK bad habits at school, within weeks! It took my daughter two years to get to the same level as the others in the class exam wise but settled happily much sooner. She is expected to be on a par with the others for GSCE's.

The why leave it so long is potentially the biggest obstacle and why I would suggest expert assistance. The UK authorities have been taken to task recently because the best interest of the child was not being given enough consideration.

Posted

Indeed, 13 is certainly not to old to quickly learn English to an acceptable level and adapt to the UK education system.

As with my daughter, who was 10 when she came to the UK, he may find he is ahead of his British classmates in subjects such as maths and science.

You and your wife's reasons for not bringing him to the UK before are none of our business, unless you want to share them with us to obtain advice on how to address them in the application.

But as Bob says, you do need to fully explain them in the application and make sure that you can prove your wife has been exercising sole responsibility throughout the separation.

You also need to explain what has changed about his and his current carer's circumstances in Thailand and why he needs to come to the UK to live now

Posted

Very often the reason is the child/children have been left with grandparents who are now getting too old to look after them.

However that event occurring should have been obvious years ago.

I believe that uprooting a child in their teens is like trying to move a flowering plant in the garden in mid-summer.

As gardeners here will know it is a challenge and often fails.

Posted

So basically you are all saying is that

a) we have left it too late

B) without showing evidence (other than 7 years worth of receipts of money that we have sent over) the sole responsibility is at a loss. I never understand this, what more can she do from outside of the country to aid in the upbringing of the child?

c) he is too old to come to the UK and have a good lifestyle due to the English barrier (for which we will get extra classes for)

d) the ECO will have seen all the excuses before as to why the child should come over, so don't even bother.

We don't have an excuse as to why we feel he should come over. We want him here and he wants to come. Doesn't everyone feel that the power of the ECO is too much for them to be able to keep families apart.

I cant tell the wife to not bother as it would look as though i don't want him her. All i know is that now you guys have given me the feeling that i was right all the time and that we are just going to be wasting our time and ALOT of money.

Posted (edited)

I'm not saying you have left it too late just that it would have been easier on the child and the visa application if you had done this maybe six years ago. Both of my children went to a boarding school from the age of 11 and left for university at 18+.

At their age I attended two schools and can tell you being the new kid is not easy at 14. By then the other kids have bonded and your the new kid in town.

My sons in their late 20's still have their friends from that period. All I recall is how hard it was to adjust.

They say throw them in at the deep end and they sink or swim. From my experience it was a nightmare adjusting and I could speak English.

We don't have an excuse as to why we feel he should come over. We want him here and he wants to come. Doesn't everyone feel that the power of the ECO is too much for them to be able to keep families apart.

I cant tell the wife to not bother as it would look as though i don't want him her. All i know is that now you guys have given me the feeling that i was right all the time and that we are just going to be wasting our time and ALOT of money.

So it's your wife's idea and you have misgivings?

For sure. Teenage kids are hard enough when they are your own.

We want him here and he wants to come

Has he ever been to the UK for more than a couple of weeks or indeed at all? Reading between the lines this is your wife's idea.

Imagine the agro in your house trying to absorb the extra problems if the stepson has difficulty adjusting.

Plus you have all the extra costs that will go on long after school.

You've admitted to a few problems with the overdraft but this extra mouth will cost you a lot more.

I'm sure some of the regulars will shoot me down in flames but my advice is act on your feelings.

Edited by Jay Sata
Posted

I think that bobrussell and Jay Sata have both indicated very well the situation and the issues which arise from it. Burbonizer, you're definitely between a rock and a hard place but I also think that now is the time for the decision to be made about your wife's son.

If you do decide that it's worth a try then start reading exactly what 'sole responsibility' is and get your application to address it. As stated earlier the difficulty is getting the ECO to believe that your wife has had sole responsibility for her son for the last 7 years when she hasn't lived in the same country. It's normal for the embassy to carry out telephone interviews with those involved with the child's upbringing. Do you know what they will say.....will it help or hinder your cause?

This forum appears to always have someone asking about their failed application for the wife's child to come over to the UK. It appears to me that the common reason for failure is the inability to prove 'sole responsibility'. I don't know if that's because the applicants do not understand the idea of sole responsibility AND then fail to get the Thai side of the family to understand it too because some of them will be contacted by the embassy. Or if it is just that the ECO is looking for something special to counteract the feeling that if the child or children lived apart from mother for X years then the mother cannot show sole responsibility.

My own personal experience with the embassy hinged on the need to address sole responsibility. We had taken care of our niece and had to show that we had sole responsibility when applying for her settlement visa because she wasn't legally adopted. It was a lot easier for us because living together meant that we had lots of photos, school receipts, medical insurance, her name on the Tabien baan and a couple of visitor visas from earlier holidays. My wife and our niece's mother were both phoned and interviewed. The questions were pretty much aimed at finding out who had sole responsibility, and I suppose to make sure that the stories matched up. Before I put the application in I spent many a frustrating afternoon trying to get the wife to understand exactly what sole responsibility was and then got her make sure that if anyone got a call from the embassy to answer the question truthfully and don't ramble on or to embellish stories.

Our niece's mother explained that we took care of her daughter now and that she was happy because she could not take care of her daughter, but she also gave a few Thai style rambling stories (left me feeling frustrated until we got the visa because I didn't know what she had actually said - she couldn't remember herself). It never crossed my mind that she had probably never had a business call before!

With hindsight I feel that the staff at the embassy do have an understanding of how Thailand works and that a mother living in another country can still have sole responsibility. However it is up to you to make the case. It's all about satisfying the rules, so forget thinking that ECO's shouldn't have the power to break up families. It's about looking at each requirement and then proving why you meet that requirement.

Good luck.

  • Like 1
Posted

So basically you are all saying is that

a) we have left it too late

No, only Jay Sata is saying that; ignore him.

What the rest of us are saying is that you have to prepare the application carefully, especially the sole responsibility issue.

As Bob says, it may be worth seeking professional advice on this; but be aware that there are a lot of cowboy agents in Thailand, many run by Brits!

The only agent in Thailand I know to be professional, honest and competent is Thai Visa Express.

Maybe worth a PM to them?

Posted

So basically you are all saying is that

a) we have left it too late

cool.png without showing evidence (other than 7 years worth of receipts of money that we have sent over) the sole responsibility is at a loss. I never understand this, what more can she do from outside of the country to aid in the upbringing of the child?

c) he is too old to come to the UK and have a good lifestyle due to the English barrier (for which we will get extra classes for)

d) the ECO will have seen all the excuses before as to why the child should come over, so don't even bother.

We don't have an excuse as to why we feel he should come over. We want him here and he wants to come. Doesn't everyone feel that the power of the ECO is too much for them to be able to keep families apart.

I cant tell the wife to not bother as it would look as though i don't want him her. All i know is that now you guys have given me the feeling that i was right all the time and that we are just going to be wasting our time and ALOT of money.

Once again I suggest you go with your feelings and in this case I get the impression you have misgiving but you are being pushed by your wife and not the child.

This kid has changed a lot and now going through puberty he'll see you as a threat to his relationship with his mother.

If he arrives he'll always be right and you'll be wrong and you'll be shut out of the situation because they will speak Thai.

As I said elsewhere it's hard enough to cope with your own teenage kids let alone one you have not brought up.

Posted (edited)

I can only give advice based on our experiences. I have a household of teenagers Thai born and otherwise. Once the language skills are mastered they all seem to get on similarly.

Teenagers are very adaptable in my experience and will do OK with suitable support. Don't base your decision on this!

Convincing the ECO can be difficult but can be done with the right information and advice. Many seem to get overturned at appeal (based on cases posted on TV!). Don't let this put you off but let it make you careful with the application wording. Also be prepared for the child to get a phone call - this seems to happen as well and careless phrasing can muck things up!

If you feel the UK is best for everyone go for it but with caution.

The more detailed behavioural advice offered above is based on no knowledge of any individuals involved so pretty pointless. Yes, teenagers are a pain irrespective of country of origin. Thankfully they grow out of it!

Edited by bobrussell
  • Like 1

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