Assaying Gold

[Italian guy]

Hi everyone,

I'm considering investing some of my money in gold but I have some questions and I hope some of you can help me.

The point is, even if I go to China Town where the best gold shops are and I go to the most respected shop in that area, I'm still convinced that as a faring I have a good 50% (probably much more) of possibilities of being cheated! The question is: is there any way to make sure that the gold bars I'm looking at are pure and genuine gold and not some kind of golden coated alloy or other junk? I know there must be a certificate but, again, I can create a false certificate with a computer and a good printer in minutes; so, for what I know the certificate itself may well be crap. How can the gold be assayed?

[Naam]

I'm still convinced that as a faring I have a good 50% (probably much more) of possibilities of being cheated!

you have my sympathy

[yoshiwara]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Edited May 30, 2013 by yoshiwara

[jbrain]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

[PCA]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

hahaha, I didn't grabe it on the first read.

Cheers to the laugh

[Khun Jean]

An easy do it yourself way is as follows:

Buy a 1 baht gold block in a reputable shop.

Buy a micro scale.

Weigh the block you bought and make sure it is the correct weight.

Next you go to a neighboring shop and sell the block to them.

You should get about 100 baht less then you paid for it (if gold price is still the same).

If they are willing to buy it excuse yourself and tell them you changed your mind.

Next step is to make your own measurement tool.

For that you need a piece of metal strip like a metal ruler. 15-20cm length should be enough.

Then make a slit in it that will allow the block to pass with the smallest clearance possible.

This will be used to confirm its width.

Then make a few notches to mark its height and width.

Then glue a triangular shaped piece on the bottom, somewhere 40% from one side so that the ruler becomes a 'scale'.

Place your block on the short side.

Make sure that you add some ridge so that the block can be placed on the exact same spot.

Put a 1 baht coin on the other side.

Move the coin until the ruler balances on its pivot point. The use some glue to fix the coin in place.

After gluing make sure it is still balanced and if not glue some small pieces of material on the lighter side to balance it again.

This 'tool' will measure width, height, thickness and weight. Margin of error with so many measuring points is incredible small.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Khun Jean

[Italian guy]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOL

Btw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

[thrilled]

Some of the gold shops on yaraphat rd are well known.They're reputation is fantastic.They deal in big bucks daily.They will not cheat you.

[Khun Jean]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOL

Btw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

My goodness, you trust banks over reputable gold dealers!

You are in for many surprises in your life. None of them good.

[Italian guy]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOLBtw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

My goodness, you trust banks over reputable gold dealers!You are in for many surprises in your life. None of them good.

I know bankers are "gangsters" as well and I don't trust banks unconditionately BUT I don't think a bank would risk its image to sell a farang a couple of million Baht of fake gold. That would be ridiculous! They rather cheat you in more sophisticate ways with interest rates, commissions and the like.

Thank you anyway for your very detailed answer before, I may give it a try...

[yoshiwara]

An easy do it yourself way is as follows:

Buy a 1 baht gold block in a reputable shop.

Buy a micro scale.

Weigh the block you bought and make sure it is the correct weight.

Next you go to a neighboring shop and sell the block to them.

You should get about 100 baht less then you paid for it (if gold price is still the same).

If they are willing to buy it excuse yourself and tell them you changed your mind.

Next step is to make your own measurement tool.

For that you need a piece of metal strip like a metal ruler. 15-20cm length should be enough.

Then make a slit in it that will allow the block to pass with the smallest clearance possible.

This will be used to confirm its width.

Then make a few notches to mark its height and width.

Then glue a triangular shaped piece on the bottom, somewhere 40% from one side so that the ruler becomes a 'scale'.

Place your block on the short side.

Make sure that you add some ridge so that the block can be placed on the exact same spot.

Put a 1 baht coin on the other side.

Move the coin until the ruler balances on its pivot point. The use some glue to fix the coin in place.

After gluing make sure it is still balanced and if not glue some small pieces of material on the lighter side to balance it again.

This 'tool' will measure width, height, thickness and weight. Margin of error with so many measuring points is incredible small.

...and after you have conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to stash it somewhere in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it?... So much safer than holding it in a bank...hmmm Edited May 30, 2013 by yoshiwara

[bealus]

maybe this TV thread maybe of help: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/586621-gold-testing-kit/

[PCA]

An easy do it yourself way is as follows:

Buy a 1 baht gold block in a reputable shop.

Buy a micro scale.

Weigh the block you bought and make sure it is the correct weight.

Next you go to a neighboring shop and sell the block to them.

You should get about 100 baht less then you paid for it (if gold price is still the same).

If they are willing to buy it excuse yourself and tell them you changed your mind.

Next step is to make your own measurement tool.

For that you need a piece of metal strip like a metal ruler. 15-20cm length should be enough.

Then make a slit in it that will allow the block to pass with the smallest clearance possible.

This will be used to confirm its width.

Then make a few notches to mark its height and width.

Then glue a triangular shaped piece on the bottom, somewhere 40% from one side so that the ruler becomes a 'scale'.

Place your block on the short side.

Make sure that you add some ridge so that the block can be placed on the exact same spot.

Put a 1 baht coin on the other side.

Move the coin until the ruler balances on its pivot point. The use some glue to fix the coin in place.

After gluing make sure it is still balanced and if not glue some small pieces of material on the lighter side to balance it again.

This 'tool' will measure width, height, thickness and weight. Margin of error with so many measuring points is incredible small.

Then after you have played with your bits of metal and glue and have proudly conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to store and hide your worldly goods in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it... So much safer than holding it in a bank. And that is where your paranoia has led you. Up to you chaps!

Well there is something else and that's the exit of a deal. The most important in the end. So if using this example Gold or whatever has been purchased then the smartest way to walk is monitoring whether there is a way to as well get rid of it (optimally by having profited comparatevely). Sticking to reality sharply and not dreaming about counting chickens before risk is covered. Just business essentials...

[Khun Jean]

...and after you have conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to stash it somewhere in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it?... So much safer than holding it in a bank...hmmm

You mean it is better to put it in a bank like this man: http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-went-to-sleep-friday-as-a-rich-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html Edited May 30, 2013 by Khun Jean

[yoshiwara]

...and after you have conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to stash it somewhere in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it?... So much safer than holding it in a bank...hmmm

You mean it is better to put it in a bank like this man: http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-went-to-sleep-friday-as-a-rich-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html

I would recommend stick to blue-chip banks and don't be chasing the higher interest rates. If you really must have gold hold the paper stuff in a HK or Singapore bank. Stashing it in your room a nonsense in my opinion. Edited May 30, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Italian guy]

maybe this TV thread maybe of help: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/586621-gold-testing-kit/

Thanks a lot for the link. That's a really interesting thread and I didn't find it before posting. It's especially interesting (indeed alarming) this link that I've found there: http://www.tungsten-alloy.com/en/alloy11.htm. I would suggest those who trust Yaowarat Rd. sellers to have a look! The point is that probably even the most reputable shops scam some people once in a while and you can be sure that those people are 99% tourists, and 90% of those tourists are farang!

Ani tong na kap! Jin jin! Dee maak loei, suu mai kap? Very good inverstmeeeent....

[Italian guy]

Moreover, I believe the risk is much higher right now if you're aware of what's going on http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Looking-behind-the-dramatic-drop-in-gold-prices-30204364.html

I still want to give it a try but with a small sum, perhaps some 100.000 Baht, and with the same mindset as gambling in a casino: I may either win or lose. I won't go myself but give the money to mi wife instead (OMG...) and ask her to buy the bars (double OMG...), hoping she won't come back with a genuine made-in-china Gucci bag... or perhaps hoping she won't come back at all! LMAO

Edited May 31, 2013 by Italian guy

[Khun Jean]

...and after you have conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to stash it somewhere in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it?... So much safer than holding it in a bank...hmmm

You mean it is better to put it in a bank like this man: http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-went-to-sleep-friday-as-a-rich-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html

I would recommend stick to blue-chip banks and don't be chasing the higher interest rates. If you really must have gold hold the paper stuff in a HK or Singapore bank. Stashing it in your room a nonsense in my opinion.

I don't know what to say. You are truly and deeply brainwashed and beyond help.

I hope you not loose everything like many others who trusted their 'blue-chip' companies.

[Hedghog]

I have bought and sold gold many times in Thailand.

No problems whatsoever,.

As for the assay marking take it to government assay office.

Not sure if they have these in Thailand.

But in the Uk it isn't gold and can't be sold as such,unless it has a recognized assay mark.

[watcharacters]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOL

Btw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

.

Great idea!.

Leave it to banks, the most corrupt business sector in existence.

I'm not a fan of gold but if I were I think i'd favor gold coins over ingots.

[yoshiwara]

...and after you have conveyed your gold bullion back home don't forget to stash it somewhere in a little box somewhere in your Thailand apartment where nobody will find it?... So much safer than holding it in a bank...hmmm

You mean it is better to put it in a bank like this man: http://www.smh.com.au/national/i-went-to-sleep-friday-as-a-rich-man-i-woke-up-a-poor-man-20130328-2gxab.html

I would recommend stick to blue-chip banks and don't be chasing the higher interest rates. If you really must have gold hold the paper stuff in a HK or Singapore bank. Stashing it in your room a nonsense in my opinion.

I don't know what to say.

That is pretty obvious.

[yoshiwara]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOL

Btw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

.

Great idea!.

Leave it to banks, the most corrupt business sector in existence.

I'm not a fan of gold but if I were I think i'd favor gold coins over ingots.

Says the man who presumably keeps it all under the mattress, in the jam jar and in a little hidey-hole.

[Khun Jean]

I don't know what to say.

That is pretty obvious.

Well actually i did but you left it out. Selective quoting is such a bad habit.

Here it is again as a reminder.

"You are truly and deeply brainwashed and beyond help.

I hope you not loose everything like many others who trusted their 'blue-chip' companies."

[yoshiwara]

I don't know what to say.

That is pretty obvious.

Well actually i did but you left it out. Selective quoting is such a bad habit.

Here it is again as a reminder.

"You are truly and deeply brainwashed and beyond help.

I hope you not loose everything like many others who trusted their 'blue-chip' companies."

So sorry I just left in the silly bit and just cut out the extremely silly bit. I am clearly faced with the vision of the financial version of a bag lady pushing around her worldly goods in plastic bags stacked inside a purloined food store trolley, except in the Thailand version it is gold coins and bars jealously guarded in a little hidden storage space in the apartment ceiling accompanied by screeches of 'Don't trust the evil banks!' All very sad.

[Khun Jean]

I see you imagination runs wild.

Just keep looking at those red and green candle sticks. Try it with one of those 3d glasses for better hallucinating effect.

You not live on a high floor do you? When those red sticks are getting long you might feel an urge to jump.

And if you survive the jump don't come begging for food, when your credit card suddenly not works anymore.

You have been warned.

For the op:

Edited May 31, 2013 by Khun Jean

[yoshiwara]

I see you imagination runs wild.

Just keep looking at those red and green candle sticks. Try it with one of those 3d glasses for better hallucinating effect.

You not live on a high floor do you? When those red sticks are getting long you might feel an urge to jump.

And if you survive the jump don't come begging for food, when your credit card suddenly not works anymore.

You have been warned.

Hello! Its the Mad Max Gold Party in full flow! Load up on gold and tins of spam!

(Have you carved out sufficient space in the ceiling for the spam as well as the gold? Also maybe one of those Ninja weapons as well you can buy in the market. PS maybe need a pair of steps to get up there but it might be a giveaway)

Edited June 1, 2013 by yoshiwara

[watcharacters]

Check for the letters L I N D T stamped on the upside.

Good point! LOL

Btw, that's why I believe gold bars, ingots and coins should solely sold by banks, not by Chinese gangsters in Yaowarat Rd. Jewellers should only sell jewels!

.

Great idea!.

Leave it to banks, the most corrupt business sector in existence.

I'm not a fan of gold but if I were I think i'd favor gold coins over ingots.

Says the man who presumably keeps it all under the mattress, in the jam jar and in a little hidey-hole.

.

Hehehe.

Is a presumption similar to an assumption? And we all know what assume leads to. You ain't gettin no cigar but maybe you've given others a valuable idea.

I just wish i had a mattress for storing anything. 555

[yoshiwara]

Hehehe.

Is a presumption similar to an assumption? And we all know what assume leads to. You ain't gettin no cigar but maybe you've given others a valuable idea.

I just wish i had a mattress for storing anything. 555

A presumption has more authority than an assumption, but I'm sure you know that....

You know I can understand someone who stashes away their wealth in a bank in Switzerland, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein, Singapore, Hong Kong, but hiding it in a box in your apartment in Thailand? Is Thailand really the safe haven for Cheap Charlies? What on earth are they thinking? (...on second thoughts don't answer that question).

Edited June 1, 2013 by yoshiwara

[Khun Jean]

I see you imagination runs wild.

Just keep looking at those red and green candle sticks. Try it with one of those 3d glasses for better hallucinating effect.

You not live on a high floor do you? When those red sticks are getting long you might feel an urge to jump.

And if you survive the jump don't come begging for food, when your credit card suddenly not works anymore.

You have been warned.

Hello! Its the Mad Max Gold Party in full flow! Load up on gold and tins of spam!

(Have you carved out sufficient space in the ceiling for the spam as well as the gold? Also maybe one of those Ninja weapons as well you can buy in the market. PS maybe need a pair of steps to get up there but it might be a giveaway)

It really hurts when the world works different then you thought, doesn't it? How is that 1:40 fractional reserve thing working for you? Or is it only working to the advantage of the one who has the power to do that?

You just keep your paper ownership while i choose to really own it. And yes i understand that real ownership (over realestate) is impossible. Only Scotland has allodial titles as far as i know.

I would however never choose to let a bank have the ownership and give you a piece of paper with a promise.

No counterparty is my rule.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, not what you seem to do.

The banks needs your kind to survive. I don't need a bank to survive. The way i prefer.

And i really hate spam, the food (a cheap food made to feed the 2nd world war troops) as well as the uninvited e-mail kind.

Spam is actually proof that economic hardships do happen, learn some history.

I prefer fresh fruit and vegetables from my families own farmland, clean of all pesticides and other poisons.

And a few black belts keeps me fit and healthy.

I now suspect you are a baby boomer banker. You sure talk like one.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Khun Jean

[yoshiwara]

I see you imagination runs wild.

Just keep looking at those red and green candle sticks. Try it with one of those 3d glasses for better hallucinating effect.

You not live on a high floor do you? When those red sticks are getting long you might feel an urge to jump.

And if you survive the jump don't come begging for food, when your credit card suddenly not works anymore.

You have been warned.

Hello! Its the Mad Max Gold Party in full flow! Load up on gold and tins of spam!

(Have you carved out sufficient space in the ceiling for the spam as well as the gold? Also maybe one of those Ninja weapons as well you can buy in the market. PS maybe need a pair of steps to get up there but it might be a giveaway)

It really hurts when the world works different then you thought, doesn't it? How is that 1:40 fractional reserve thing working for you? Or is it only working to the advantage of the one who has the power to do that?

You just keep your paper ownership while i choose to really own it. And yes i understand that real ownership (over realestate) is impossible. Only Scotland has allodial titles as far as i know.

I would however never choose to let a bank have the ownership and give you a piece of paper with a promise.

No counterparty is my rule.

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst, not what you seem to do.

The banks needs your kind to survive. I don't need a bank to survive. The way i prefer.

And i really hate spam, the food (a cheap food made to feed the 2nd world war troops) as well as the uninvited e-mail kind.

Spam is actually proof that economic hardships do happen, learn some history.

I prefer fresh fruit and vegetables from my families own farmland, clean of all pesticides and other poisons.

And a few black belts keeps me fit and healthy.

I now suspect you are a baby boomer banker. You sure talk like one.

Mr Black Belt Turnip. Edited June 1, 2013 by yoshiwara