Very Wrongfull Decision By Ukba....wifes Resident Status Refused.

[asiansun]

thai wife is in uk under eea rules. resident stamp expired on 31 march 2013. we got her application back 2 days ago. REFUSED ! bear in mind my wife made a visa application under eea rules for her child to join us in uk about 1 year ago, it also was refused, we appeal, went to tribunal in high court and won on 2 counts , the 2 counts were based family life and eu law. anyway we won the tribunal and we made the ukba aware of this when we wrote to whoever was dealing with her permanent residence application ( pending and awaiting outcome at the time ) so ukba knew that my wife won decision in court yet they still turned down her right to reside in uk .. without going into detail and confusing everyone they say i was not excercising my treaty rights and was not resident in uk for 5 years in total but i was and this was proven in court in april 2013

so things here to bear in mind

1. her child won appeal against ukba in apr 2013 to come join mother in uk

2. no circumstances have changed since that date.

all i can say at this point is this , the original decision by ukba was very very wrong to refuse child entry, we appealed and won on 2 counts, anyone in ukba with even an inkling of common sense would of granted the visa the first time, it was straight forward and all lawyers and immigration specialists who we spoke to at time were scratching their heads in amazment, the lawyer who won the childs right to reside in uk in april told us at the time that it was an idiotic decision and said that it was not uncommon for ukba to give decisions like this . anyway it was easilly won after lengthy appeal and total waste of money and time to all parties involved.

now we are going to appeal this within next few days and it will no doubt go to another court and wife will win , i spoked with same immigration lawyer this morning and she was totally shocked and astounded by ukba decision once again. she told me they had no right to refuse her and the person in ukba didnt even take all the facts into consideration about the high court tribunal in april to allow her child to reside in uk.

CRAZY

[David48]

Thanks for sharing ...

I read it twice ... but still couldn't discern a question or advice required.

.

[asiansun]

well really i am asking a question about why they would give such a decision and what would outcome be under the current eu / uk laws. i have spoken to an immigration lawyer today well versed in eu law and has dealt with ukba refusals all the time, her exact words were , with eyes rolling " this is a ridiculous decision once again and have they not even looked into the fact that your wifes child won the right to reside under eea regulations in the appeal tribunal heard in court in april 2013 , based on the fact of that outcome we will win this case "

ps. we have another child born here in uk with a uk passport, wife and child cannot be seperated ( child under 18 years old have a right to family life in uk/eu ) so ukba cannot send my wife back to thailand. begs the question why some pea brained pen pusher in ukba want to waste more time and money yet again .

its also a stern warning to anyone wishing to bring wife back to uk what you have to deal with regarding visa,s and dealing with ukba , or anyone else making PR application or any application for that fact to ukba, make sure you guys have everything 100 % in order and give yourselves plenty of time to get papers submitted etc, also be patient if you can because you will be pulling your hair out ( it has been hell !! )

[7by7]

Due to your somewhat confusing post leaving out important details, your non response to questions asking for clarification in your previous topic on the subject where you did the same and the fact that you have engaged professional advisor, I'm not going to comment.

Other than to say that your statement

we have another child born here in uk with a uk passport, wife and child cannot be seperated ( child under 18 years old have a right to family life in uk/eu ) so ukba cannot send my wife back to Thailand

is wrong.

You are talking, I assume, about the Zambrano ruling; which would only apply if your wife was the sole or main carer of her EU citizen children; which she isn't.

Plus, if you really do want comments on the refusal, you need to tell us exactly what the refusal letter says; deleting all names and other identifying information, of course.

Edited May 31, 2013 by 7by7

[asiansun]

my wife is the sole/ main carer of the child , so what you are saying is that ukba can deport my wife ? taking away our child who is here at school, has sister here who she is very close to , leaving her father here in uk also .

child with mother can be deported ? wow

i am not even going to comment on abu hamza <deleted> dont start me !!

[David48]

thai wife is in uk under eea rules. resident stamp expired on 31

march 2013. we got her application back 2 days ago. REFUSED !

Assuming that she doesn't have any Visa at the moment as her resident stamp has expired, under what Visa or condition does she stay legally in the UK?

I'm not trying to stir the pot ... just wondering how she is 'legally' in the UK at the moment?

EDIT ... we posted at the same time ...

.

Edited May 31, 2013 by David48

[asiansun]

she has submitted appeal today. hopefully someone with an ounce of sense in ukba will see that a judge ruled in her childs favour in april. so therefor it will be sorted out by ukba , failing that she will take it all the way through the courts again

[David48]

she has submitted appeal today. hopefully someone with an ounce of sense in ukba will see that a judge ruled in her childs favour in april. so therefor it will be sorted out by ukba , failing that she will take it all the way through the courts again

I can understand what she is doing, but educate me.

Unless she is then granted a temporary visa while the appeal is being considered, couldn't she and her child be deported at any time?

What are your thoughts about moving the Family to Thailand?

EDIT ... those appeals aren't cheap!

.

Edited May 31, 2013 by David48

[thaicbr]

Op. You say your wife is in the uk on EEA rules.. correct?

So you are NOT a UK national.. May i inquire where you are from?

[manarak]

absolutely disgusting behavior by the authorities

the are doing a really good job at being a pain in the ass when dealing with visa and immigration matters related to companions of normal citizens but seem unable to keep the common foreign pond scum out.

why pay tax when the bureaucracy is working against the citizen?

[thaicbr]

absolutely disgusting behavior by the authorities

the are doing a really good job at being a pain in the ass when dealing with visa and immigration matters related to companions of normal citizens but seem unable to keep the common foreign pond scum out.

why pay tax when the bureaucracy is working against the citizen?

Manarak. WHAT is a normal citizen? A British citizen?

[asiansun]

i am both irish and british. father from liverpool mother from holywood in northern ireland therefore im entitled to dual passports.

thaicbr, manarak is saying a " normal citizen " is someone who plays by the rules, pays their way , integrates into uk/eu society and generally doesnt come with 5-6 kids to cream the system like other people /peoples do , and these same people arent even married to a eu/uk member. i dont have to spell it out for you, take abu hamza for example , so why do you even question manaraks choice of wording about these scumbags.

at least all of the thai people i know integrate well into britain, dont bother anyone and are well behaved and respectfull of our laws and our values and religions.

anyway lets not get into it.

Edited May 31, 2013 by asiansun

[thaicbr]

i am both irish and british. father from liverpool mother from holywood in northern ireland therefore im entitled to dual passports.

thaicbr, manarak is saying a " normal citizen " is someone who plays by the rules, pays their way , integrates into uk/eu society and generally doesnt come with 5-6 kids to cream the system like other people /peoples do , i dont have to spell it out for you, take abu hamza for example , so why do you even question manaraks choice of wording about these scumbags.

at least all of the thai people i know integrate well into britain, dont bother anyone and are well behaved and respectfull of our laws and our values and religions.

I was asking because it wasn't clear. as your nationality wasn't (and still isn't clear) do you hold Irish and British passports if yes why are you using EEA rules?

[FDog]

i am both irish and british. father from liverpool mother from holywood in northern ireland therefore im entitled to dual passports.

thaicbr, manarak is saying a " normal citizen " is someone who plays by the rules, pays their way , integrates into uk/eu society and generally doesnt come with 5-6 kids to cream the system like other people /peoples do , and these same people arent even married to a eu/uk member. i dont have to spell it out for you, take abu hamza for example , so why do you even question manaraks choice of wording about these scumbags.

at least all of the thai people i know integrate well into britain, dont bother anyone and are well behaved and respectfull of our laws and our values and religions.

anyway lets not get into it.

Is that true that you hold an Irish passport even though your mother was born in Nth Ireland, which is British?

I was born in Nth Ireland but was told I can't get an Irish passport. I will have to look into that again.

Ok, scrap that, it was a long time ago I asked about and just saw that I can indeed get an Irish passport.

Edited May 31, 2013 by FDog

[manarak]

absolutely disgusting behavior by the authorities

the are doing a really good job at being a pain in the ass when dealing with visa and immigration matters related to companions of normal citizens but seem unable to keep the common foreign pond scum out.

why pay tax when the bureaucracy is working against the citizen?

Manarak. WHAT is a normal citizen? A British citizen?

There are pitfalls in the definition - tying it to a nationality is one of the pitfalls, considering how liberally passports have been given out by western european governments.

I rather think people fulfilling certain criteria including the following should see their formalities simplified and their process expedited:

- long time resident

- taxpayer contributing more than X per year in average for the last 5 years (X to be defined)

- no criminal records

... etc

I also think important persons should be able to recommend a person to the authorites, i.e. write a letter of recommendation to support the application, for example (if considering the UK): a lord, a MP, a mayor, a commanding police officer, a judge, etc.

Not only would such procedures allow the applicants and their national partners to feel better than being treated like criminals (I know, I went through that process), but this would also allow for huge savings.

Edited May 31, 2013 by manarak

[7by7]

Any one who is a British citizen or is normally (and legally!) resident in the UK may sponsor their partner or other qualifying family member to settle in the UK with them. All applicants have to meet the same criteria.

One of the foundations of our democracy is that all are equal before the law.

I, for one, would hate to see this eroded by a person applying to settle in the UK be given special treatment simply because they or their sponsor knew what you describe as an 'important person' or because their sponsor has a high income or is otherwise wealthy.

BTW, following changes to the EEA regulations, someone who has joint Irish and British nationality can no longer use their Irish nationality and the EEA regulations to have their family members join them in the UK unless they themselves have at some time lived in the RoI; and vice versa.

This is not just a UK/Irish thing; it applies to all who hold two or more EEA nationalities.

Edited May 31, 2013 by 7by7

[SunsetT]

absolutely disgusting behavior by the authorities

the are doing a really good job at being a pain in the ass when dealing with visa and immigration matters related to companions of normal citizens but seem unable to keep the common foreign pond scum out.

why pay tax when the bureaucracy is working against the citizen?

Manarak. WHAT is a normal citizen? A British citizen?

There are pitfalls in the definition - tying it to a nationality is one of the pitfalls, considering how liberally passports have been given out by western european governments.

I rather think people fulfilling certain criteria including the following should see their formalities simplified and their process expedited:

- long time resident

- taxpayer contributing more than X per year in average for the last 5 years (X to be defined)

- no criminal records

... etc

I also think important persons should be able to recommend a person to the authorites, i.e. write a letter of recommendation to support the application, for example (if considering the UK): a lord, a MP, a mayor, a commanding police officer, a judge, etc.

Not only would such procedures allow the applicants and their national partners to feel better than being treated like criminals (I know, I went through that process), but this would also allow for huge savings.

.....and possibly huge brown envelopes.

[beano2274]

So the OP's wife does not qualify under the EEA ruling as Northern Ireland is part of the UK, so his wife is illegally there or is she there under the rule about settlement in the UK with a UK citizen.

[7by7]

From what I can gather from his posts here and in previous topics (it's difficult to gather anything as getting information from him is like pulling teeth!) the OP is a dual Irish/British citizen and his wife arrived in the UK via the EEA route before the change in the regulations.

It may be that due to some error in the application or by the UKBA she has been assessed as coming under the new regulations; but unless he posts a copy of the refusal notice we wont be in a position to judge.

Edited May 31, 2013 by 7by7

[asiansun]

From what I can gather from his posts here and in previous topics (it's difficult to gather anything as getting information from him is like pulling teeth!) the OP is a dual Irish/British citizen and his wife arrived in the UK via the EEA route before the change in the regulations.

It may be that due to some error in the application or by the UKBA she has been assessed as coming under the new regulations; but unless he posts a copy of the refusal notice we wont be in a position to judge.

all info has been given, no mistake in submitted app, nothing left out. again and only this last time i will say this , high court judge granted my wifes child resident status in april 2013 ( 2 months ago ) high court judge took all my evidence, my nationality, my rights, my residence, my family life , my marriage to my wife etc etc into consideration and ruled that the ukba was absolutely without a shadow of a doubt wrong in refusing my wifes child entry to uk first time around last year . we won in both counts uk/eu law and family life, as i have said before , nothing, zilch has changed from that day when that ruling was won against the d***********S in ukba. so how in the hell has my wife been refused her residence ? as i will say once again, the lawyer who is our case rep is 100% confident that my wife will win this case if it goes to court. seems to me the ukba has money to burn bringing these cases to court.

7x7 the refusal letter is now with lawyer. i seen nothing in it about the new regulations as they cannot affect my wife. i am resident in uk for 5 years but they said i wasnt so therefore they are going over the high court judges head ( 2 months ago ) when indeed the ukba defence lawyer argued in court that i was not a resident in uk and therefore i was not excersing my treaty rights as an eea member, then my lawyer stood up handed the judge a letter from landlords and social housing for last 10 years saying that i was living in uk for at least last 10 years, then my lawyer also handed judge a letter from my doctor saying that i was a patient of his for last 7 years and i seen him regularly. the court also seen the stamps in my passport showing that i was residing in uk, so ukba were left red faced, not a leg to stand on and we won the case outright.

it all boils down to this , the case against ukba was won in april and nothing has changed since that day . doesnt matter a damn what ukba are saying, the judges ruling was final and she granted wifes child residence - nothing has changed

Edited May 31, 2013 by asiansun

[David48]

she has submitted appeal today. hopefully someone with an ounce of sense in ukba will see that a judge ruled in her childs favour in april. so therefor it will be sorted out by ukba , failing that she will take it all the way through the courts again

I can understand what she is doing, but educate me.

Unless she is then granted a temporary visa while the appeal is being considered, couldn't she and her child be deported at any time?

What are your thoughts about moving the Family to Thailand?

EDIT ... those appeals aren't cheap!

.

COUGH ...

asiasun ... do you not have an answer?

[asiansun]

she has submitted appeal today. hopefully someone with an ounce of sense in ukba will see that a judge ruled in her childs favour in april. so therefor it will be sorted out by ukba , failing that she will take it all the way through the courts again

I can understand what she is doing, but educate me.

Unless she is then granted a temporary visa while the appeal is being considered, couldn't she and her child be deported at any time?

What are your thoughts about moving the Family to Thailand?

EDIT ... those appeals aren't cheap!

.

COUGH ...

asiasun ... do you not have an answer?

answer to what ? why is she here illegally ? she has submitted an appeal, untill that appeal is heard and finalised then i take it she is still entitled to be hear under eea though im not a lawyer. or are you asking me why we havent moved to thailand ? and in that case i wont even answer that sorry

[David48]

she has submitted appeal today. hopefully someone with an ounce of sense in ukba will see that a judge ruled in her childs favour in april. so therefor it will be sorted out by ukba , failing that she will take it all the way through the courts again

I can understand what she is doing, but educate me.

Unless she is then granted a temporary visa while the appeal is being considered, couldn't she and her child be deported at any time?

What are your thoughts about moving the Family to Thailand?

EDIT ... those appeals aren't cheap!

.

COUGH ...

asiasun ... do you not have an answer?

answer to what ? why is she here illegally ? she has submitted an appeal, untill that appeal is heard and finalised then i take it she is still entitled to be hear under eea though im not a lawyer. or are you asking me why we havent moved to thailand ? and in that case i wont even answer that sorry

OK ... a different tact.

What valid visa does she currently hold because you said in your OP that her Visa had been 'REFUSED' ?

.

[asiansun]

no valid visa. as i have told you allready ukba said she must make plans now to leave uk.

[wooloomooloo]

Post the refusal, asiansun.

You appear to prevaricate at every turn and will garner no sympathy with present attitude.

Forum members do want to help.

[meatboy]

keep it up asiansun with your atitude your goner go a long way,immigration will love you calling them what you have we see it every 90days here.

[Suradit69]

keep it up asiansun with your atitude your goner go a long way,immigration will love you calling them what you have we see it every 90days here.

It may arise every 90 days for individuals here, but on TV we see it almost on a daily basis as the bar stool immigration specialists proclaim this or that would never occur in Farang Utopia where logic and the rule of law approach a state of perfection.

[thaicbr]

I still cannot understand why a British citizen is living in the UK on an Irish passport. So I say bullshit on this one. The Op knows damn sure why his wife is being refused. With his attitude I don't know why any of you are wasting your time with him. Like all the other asylum seekers he's just screwing the system.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rct99q]

In the one off you are the exception, I am sure you know the reason why UKBA refused your wifes application for visa. Most refusals come with an explanation attached so that if you so wish to appeal you know on what grounds the appeal can be heard. The following is from the UKBA website

"If you applied from inside the UK, you might have a statutory right of appeal. When we refuse your application, we will write to you giving our reasons and explaining what you can do. If you have a right of appeal, we will give you full details of your rights and a form which you can use to make an appeal."

So you must know why. Unless you are one of the few one-offs where they just say no because the reason is obvious. You say you handed in your passport with all your stamps showing you have lived in the UK. Did you show them both Or perhaps like others you use one to show you have never left the UK and use the other (irish) to travel and live elsewhere. I have dual citizenship and one of my passports is absolutely clean.

It just seems that the UKBA has made a decision based on some facts you have not provided or they feel are not on the up and up. Without all the facts (and it does feel as though you are leaving some stuff out) other people here on this forum who have been through something similar are unable to help out. You may get a favorable court decision but I feel you have a long way to go before your wife is ever granted a long term visa solution.

OR it was just not your lucky day and somebody made a mistake. It Happens. Either way, good luck!

[MrZM]

I always thought an Irish citizen had a British Passport.

Don't understand the situation. But I would really worry for your wife as she has no visa.

Would it not have been easier to apply for a spouse visa.