Third round of peace talks with the Barisan Revolusi Nasional: Thai South

[webfact]

Pressure on to achieve peace
Pakorn Peungnetr
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- Third round of talks set to start; Chalerm will consider other groups if discussion with BRN fails to cut attacks.

Thai delegates are heading for the third round of peace talks with the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN) today amid speculation that this could be the last.

The talks have failed to ease violence in the deep South since they were launched in March.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung recently reiterated that if the situation in the South did not improve after the third round of talks, the Thai side would consider talking to other groups instead.

Several Thai delegates have mentioned the intense pressure they have been getting from local residents as the violent incidents have not reduced.

Speaking at a recent seminar entitled "Decoding the BRN", human-rights activist Sunai Phasuk said the insurgent group did not operate under a single leadership. He said there were many groups in the BRN movement, including extremist ones.

Meanwhile, some residents in the South have joined public forums held by the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre to voice their opposition to the BRN's demands - especially its call for all prisoners held in security-related cases to be released. Participants also expressed hopes that the violence will reduce as the peace talks continue.

The government delegates are preparing to ask the BRN to prove that it can curtail unrest in the deep South during the Ramadan period, which runs from early July to early August. It remains to be seen whether the BRN representatives will accept this demand.

The government must tread very carefully from now on as it appears to have been on the defensive since the peace talks began.

Even if it decides to end the talks, it will still be at a disadvantage.

By starting the dialogue, the government has recognised that separatist movements are indeed active in the country's southernmost region.

Since then, some groups in the country have urged the government to consider a proposal to turn the South into a special administrative zone. Some have cited the public's right to self-determination, as laid out in the UN Charter, to push for this proposal. The BRN, after all, has called Thailand a coloniser.

Outside the Defence Ministry in Bangkok is a historic cannon that comes from Pattani and was seized by Siamese troops around 200 years ago.

Many locals said they wanted it back, not the replica made by the Fine Arts Department which was installed in front of the Krue Se mosque in Pattani's Muang district earlier this month. On Tuesday, the replica cannon was damaged in a bomb attack.

Before separatist sentiment deepens, the government must come up with an effective solution to the troubles in the deep South.


-- The Nation 2013-06-13

[simple1]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Tawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwat Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the iniative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

[chainarong]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Thawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwas Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the initiative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

That's only Ramadan, what about the other eleven months.

[simple1]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Thawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwas Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the initiative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

That's only Ramadan, what about the other eleven months.

True, but the violence is not going to stop overnight. As said a "road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

Edited June 13, 2013 by simple1

[hellodolly]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Tawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwat Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the iniative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

So 634 Imam agree that the insurgents should honor Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. I take it that all other times of the year it is OK with them.

"Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung recently reiterated that if the situation in the South did not improve after the third round of talks, the Thai side would consider talking to other groups instead"

Being as they are the ones creating the terrorism should he not be talking to them now? They are completly seperated from the Barisan Revolusi Nasional. BRN

Maybe if he would offer to share his ear medicine with them.

[webfact]

Thai patience over southern violence wearing thin

KUALA LUMPUR, June 13, 2013 (AFP) - Thailand Thursday expressed impatience at continuing insurgent violence in its Muslim-majority south as delegates began a third round of peace talks in the Malaysian capital with the rebels.

Thai National Security Council chief Paradorn Pattanatabut told reporters he needed "concrete outcomes" to violence that has killed more than 5,500 in the past decade "so I can answer to the people".

"Our agenda is to reduce violence in a particular timeframe or by area. Today we must get clear answer on the facts (behind the recent spike in violence)," Paradorn, Bangkok's lead negotiator, said before meeting rebel representatives.

Talks which began on March 28 have so far failed to end near-daily violence in the three provinces bordering Malaysia.

Thai authorities had floated the idea of handing some local decision-making to the provinces dominated by ethnic Malay Muslims. But Paradorn said the issue was unlikely to come up in this round, which would be dominated by the violence.

Five Thai security personnel were killed in a fresh spate of gun and bomb attacks two weeks ago, which the government blamed on insurgents seeking to disrupt the fragile peace process.

Despite two rounds of peace talks since March, near-daily bloodshed has raised questions over how much control rebel leaders have over radical militants.

But a Thai delegation official expressed confidence Thursday that "they are the real representatives of all groups" in southern Thailand.

"Every group, they are now together. They are talking to us," said deputy permanent secretary for defence Nipat Thonglek.

The rebels had in April demanded "liberation" from the Thai kingdom and made a series of demands. But Paradorn has insisted that discussions are not about autonomy but about local administration.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-06-13

[winstonc]

why is it called ear medicine,,reminds me of N-IRELAND it wont go away

[ABCer]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Thawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwas Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the initiative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

That's only Ramadan, what about the other eleven months.

True, but the violence is not going to stop overnight. As said a "road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

"road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

simple1, life isn't as simle as... Why do you chose to remember 'extra-judicial killings and torture of detainees' (guilty or suspects) and forget about 'extra-judicial killings, bombings mutilations etc'. of innocent civilians? I know your way of thinking:

Thai Gov't must be civil, judicial, act strictly within the International Human Rights framework, otherwise it will be as bad as the terrorists.

The terrorists can blow up bombs, kill indiscriminately, demand cessation, demand that people different from them live by their laws, etc. and they aren't terrorists after all - they are freedom fighters.

And what happens to the self-defense concept? They hit us with bombs and we hit them back with talks? Animals indiscriminately killing people lose all human rights.

Paradorn is surely going to fail in his 'talks'. Because he is talking from a weak position.

[simple1]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Thawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwas Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the initiative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

That's only Ramadan, what about the other eleven months.

True, but the violence is not going to stop overnight. As said a "road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

"road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

simple1, life isn't as simle as... Why do you chose to remember 'extra-judicial killings and torture of detainees' (guilty or suspects) and forget about 'extra-judicial killings, bombings mutilations etc'. of innocent civilians? I know your way of thinking:

Thai Gov't must be civil, judicial, act strictly within the International Human Rights framework, otherwise it will be as bad as the terrorists.

The terrorists can blow up bombs, kill indiscriminately, demand cessation, demand that people different from them live by their laws, etc. and they aren't terrorists after all - they are freedom fighters.

And what happens to the self-defense concept? They hit us with bombs and we hit them back with talks? Animals indiscriminately killing people lose all human rights.

Paradorn is surely going to fail in his 'talks'. Because he is talking from a weak position.

You are putting words in my mouth. We all know the insurgents carry out bombing, murder and so on. It is rare of this forum that it is highlighted that Thai forces abuse the local population. I was saying both sides of the conflict need to put in place measures to reduce the killings. Whether this is acheivable in the near/medium term is questionable, but at least try.

I noticed in another topic you advocate tactics for the Thai armed forces that were used by the Nazis i.e. indescriminate retribution killings of civilians within the local ethic population. Firstly that is pure evil, secondly if my memory of history serves me correctly it just increased resistance. I would also assume that the insurgents (to use the Thai government term) would reciprocate by attacks on Buddhist civilian targets outside of the deep South that to date has not occurred.

Edited June 13, 2013 by simple1

[rubl]

"Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung recently reiterated that if the situation in the South did not improve after the third round of talks, the Thai side would consider talking to other groups instead."

That's close to heresy. Wasn't our most popular criminal fugitive involved in setting up talks with this 'well connected' BRN group?

[ABCer]

simple1, you are using selectively my proposals. Evil they may be, but there is a difference:

- reaction by evil means cannot be equal to evil provocations;

- bombings and killings cannot be fought against by talks only;

- 5,500 victims on Thai side do call for measured force response;

- not only Nazi used this tactics, Commy did it too and very effectively;

- like it or not we are at war; declaring a war zone and introducing martial law in the troubled area will hurt the silent sympathetic civilians;

- at certain stage they will stop being silent and sympathetic when get their interests hurt;

- one day the acclaimed mullahs may see that bombing should stop for longer than Ramadan and may say so;

- these people are a sizable minority in Thailand; if the killings go at 5:1 ratio they will hurt more than us;

- they will be calling out for talks and not from the position of our weakness;

- the references to History are laughable; give Spain to Moors, England to Celts, USA to Indeans, Russia to Vikings, Australia to Aborigines ... and you can go to...?...back home to turn the clock;

- my first proposed action was to keep Thais dying and do nothing; you may be comfortable with this, not me;

- 5,500 Thais dead indicates more than great tolerance and reserve on Gov't part; if it would have been 5,500 Gov't officials - things might be different in many ways;

- life is cheap in Thailand, but the Gov't here has the duty to protect people and talks in KL to criminals, murderers and their spiritual leaders isn't the only way;

Now, you can label me a Nazi, a Commy, a warmonger and a proponent of genocide - I am none of this.

[simple1]

simple1, you are using selectively my proposals. Evil they may be, but there is a difference:

- reaction by evil means cannot be equal to evil provocations;

- bombings and killings cannot be fought against by talks only;

- 5,500 victims on Thai side do call for measured force response;

- not only Nazi used this tactics, Commy did it too and very effectively;

- like it or not we are at war; declaring a war zone and introducing martial law in the troubled area will hurt the silent sympathetic civilians;

- at certain stage they will stop being silent and sympathetic when get their interests hurt;

- one day the acclaimed mullahs may see that bombing should stop for longer than Ramadan and may say so;

- these people are a sizable minority in Thailand; if the killings go at 5:1 ratio they will hurt more than us;

- they will be calling out for talks and not from the position of our weakness;

- the references to History are laughable; give Spain to Moors, England to Celts, USA to Indeans, Russia to Vikings, Australia to Aborigines ... and you can go to...?...back home to turn the clock;

- my first proposed action was to keep Thais dying and do nothing; you may be comfortable with this, not me;

- 5,500 Thais dead indicates more than great tolerance and reserve on Gov't part; if it would have been 5,500 Gov't officials - things might be different in many ways;

- life is cheap in Thailand, but the Gov't here has the duty to protect people and talks in KL to criminals, murderers and their spiritual leaders isn't the only way;

Now, you can label me a Nazi, a Commy, a warmonger and a proponent of genocide - I am none of this.

Your decision if your'e comfortable with your suggestion for retribution killings of civilians as a tactic by Thai armed forces, Yes I agree with the labels you have used, but not genocide in the context of your posts. However in the context of Thailand, Buddhist facism would be more applicable

Thai Muslims approx 5% of the Thai population & yes the largest religious minority

5,500 victims on Thai side in deep South. I assume you are excluding Thai Muslims from the "Thai side". But to clarify the dead are approx 40% Thai Buddhist, 60% Thai Malay

Martial law has been in place in the deep South since 2004. Not sure if it is now restricted to just the red zones

Edited June 14, 2013 by simple1

[ABCer]

simple1, you are using selectively my proposals. Evil they may be, but there is a difference:

- reaction by evil means cannot be equal to evil provocations;

- bombings and killings cannot be fought against by talks only;

- 5,500 victims on Thai side do call for measured force response;

- not only Nazi used this tactics, Commy did it too and very effectively;

- like it or not we are at war; declaring a war zone and introducing martial law in the troubled area will hurt the silent sympathetic civilians;

- at certain stage they will stop being silent and sympathetic when get their interests hurt;

- one day the acclaimed mullahs may see that bombing should stop for longer than Ramadan and may say so;

- these people are a sizable minority in Thailand; if the killings go at 5:1 ratio they will hurt more than us;

- they will be calling out for talks and not from the position of our weakness;

- the references to History are laughable; give Spain to Moors, England to Celts, USA to Indeans, Russia to Vikings, Australia to Aborigines ... and you can go to...?...back home to turn the clock;

- my first proposed action was to keep Thais dying and do nothing; you may be comfortable with this, not me;

- 5,500 Thais dead indicates more than great tolerance and reserve on Gov't part; if it would have been 5,500 Gov't officials - things might be different in many ways;

- life is cheap in Thailand, but the Gov't here has the duty to protect people and talks in KL to criminals, murderers and their spiritual leaders isn't the only way;

Now, you can label me a Nazi, a Commy, a warmonger and a proponent of genocide - I am none of this.

Your decision if your'e comfortable with your suggestion for retribution killings of civilians as a tactic by Thai armed forces, Yes I agree with the labels you have used, but not genocide in the context of your posts. However in the context of Thailand, Buddhist facism would be more applicable

Thai Muslims approx 5% of the Thai population & yes the largest religious minority

5,500 victims on Thai side in deep South. I assume you are excluding Thai Muslims from the "Thai side". But to clarify the dead are approx 40% Thai Buddhist, 60% Thai Malay

Martial law has been in place in the deep South since 2004. Not sure if it is now restricted to just the red zones

Unlike you I do not differentiate between Thai Buddhists and Thai Muslims. I am not religious. I am not even Thai.

They are all Thais from where I stand. BTW can you provide figures on how many of the victims were Christians?

Your statistics smell more of Nazi/Commy psychology than my firm belief that terrorists place themselves outside of Human Rights Laws. And terrorists are not Muslims.

It has been said: kill one and it is murder, kill a million and it becomes statistics.

Statistically speaking, I said and repeat: 5,500 Thais dead; if or when 27,500 terrorists and people sympathetic to them will be killed, their supporters including their spiritual leaders will change their mind quick smart.

I would respect Muslim spiritual leaders calls for ceasefire much more had it not applied to the Holy month only.

You point out that Muslims account for only 5% of total population in Thailand. Terrorizing such a vast majority is a dangerous game. Religion based genocide may follow.

I am not calling for this ugly outcome, only fearing it and warning against it. You do not have to revert to your knowledge of History - just look at recent events in Burma.

Martial Law since 2004? Don't make me laugh. If it didn't change the situation in 9 years - we are talking about different things!

[simple1]

I understand Christians represent less that 1% of Thai population & mainly concentrated in Northern Thailand. Did you know Catholiics suffered persecution by Thai government during and after WW11 and Christians have been persecuted by Thai buddhists during various periods of Thai history

Edited June 14, 2013 by simple1

[rubl]

Found in Thailand Live Today Tuesday 18/06 #26:

"DPM does not believe violence will be reduced during Ramadan
BANGKOK, 18 June 2013 (NNT) Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung does not believe that the insurgent group in the Deep South will tone down violence during the Ramadan period as promised.
According to the deputy prime minister, he has yet to receive any report from Lt Gen Paradorn Pattanatabut, the National Security Council (NSC) Secretary-General, on the third round of talks between the Thai government and the Barisan Revolusi Nasional (BRN), which took place on June 13th.
DPM Chalerm also said he did not believe violence in the deep South will be toned down during the Ramadal festival given there were still groups of people who would be looking to attack soldiers and southern residents during the period. However, he remained undaunted and would continue to solve the problem in the southern border provinces for the safety of the people and the nation as a whole.
Mr. Chalerm has also told Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt to renovate roads in the Deep South, so that the insurgents will not able to plant bombs underground.

The deputy prime minister has also brushed aside the claim by the BRN insurgent group that violence in the area has been caused by soldiers, adding that Thai soldiers have been trained to protect lives, not to take them.
-- NNT 2013-06-18"

[GentlemanJim]

If the Thai Government were serious about negotiating peace then they would bring in high level, professional, experienced negotiators. Peace in Northern Ireland or anywhere else for that matter is ever negotiated by politicians. It needs expertise and complete Neutrality to listen to what is being said and then to broker a peace deal that satisfies all parties. This bunch of clowns stand zero chance of any effective negotiation.

As I see Chalerm is there it should be fun and games. Does that sign in front of him say "All invited, early happy hour 2 for 1 till 11pm bar open until 5am or until all ear medicine is consumed, whichever is earlier"

[mrtoad]

Ear medicine sales will increase in The South when Chalerm visits.

[rubl]

Ear medicine? Probably 'cough syrup' :-)

"Almost 10,000 bottles of cough syrup seized in the South"
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/647347-thailand-live-tuesday-18-jun-2013/#entry6518406

[Potosi]

Barisan Revolusi Nasional means National Revolutionary Front. There is no reference to Islam, so how did you manage to blame religion for this conflict for all these years, and continue to do so in this thread? Doesn't the 'National' indicate that they fight the Thais because their are Malays, not Muslims? It's staring right in your face, take note.

[hellodolly]

What has not been generally reported is the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre (SBPAC) Director Thawee Sodsong met with the imams of 634 mosques at the office of the Narathiwas Islamic Committee. The clerics said the insurgents should honour Ramadan by desisting from the shootings and bombings. From the BKK Post (not permitted to provide a link). It went on to say the initiative by the Imams was also for the BRN representatives at the talks to demonstrate that they actually had influence with the armed militants and had the authority to negotiate a roadmap for peace

True, but the violence is not going to stop overnight. As said a "road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

"road map for peace", this requires so called "trust building" that can be monitored for compliance by both sides of the conflict. e.g. for the Thai government security agencies to cease extrajudicial killings and torture of detainees

simple1, life isn't as simle as... Why do you chose to remember 'extra-judicial killings and torture of detainees' (guilty or suspects) and forget about 'extra-judicial killings, bombings mutilations etc'. of innocent civilians? I know your way of thinking:

Thai Gov't must be civil, judicial, act strictly within the International Human Rights framework, otherwise it will be as bad as the terrorists.

The terrorists can blow up bombs, kill indiscriminately, demand cessation, demand that people different from them live by their laws, etc. and they aren't terrorists after all - they are freedom fighters.

And what happens to the self-defense concept? They hit us with bombs and we hit them back with talks? Animals indiscriminately killing people lose all human rights.

Paradorn is surely going to fail in his 'talks'. Because he is talking from a weak position.

You are putting words in my mouth. We all know the insurgents carry out bombing, murder and so on. It is rare of this forum that it is highlighted that Thai forces abuse the local population. I was saying both sides of the conflict need to put in place measures to reduce the killings. Whether this is acheivable in the near/medium term is questionable, but at least try.

I noticed in another topic you advocate tactics for the Thai armed forces that were used by the Nazis i.e. indescriminate retribution killings of civilians within the local ethic population. Firstly that is pure evil, secondly if my memory of history serves me correctly it just increased resistance. I would also assume that the insurgents (to use the Thai government term) would reciprocate by attacks on Buddhist civilian targets outside of the deep South that to date has not occurred.

I think he has to put the words in your mouth as you seem to be unwilling to admit to there atrocities. You defend them. If you want to have a fair settlement both sides must take on their own doings and admit that they are not justified in many cases. You on the other hand seem to dwell on the past and I don't mean yesterday. More like years ago.Perhaps you would be happy of Thaksin put up a cross in Yala and crawled up on it and hung there till death took him. But trust me it would not stop the atrocities being performed by the various terrorist groups.

[hellodolly]

Barisan Revolusi Nasional means National Revolutionary Front. There is no reference to Islam, so how did you manage to blame religion for this conflict for all these years, and continue to do so in this thread? Doesn't the 'National' indicate that they fight the Thais because their are Malays, not Muslims? It's staring right in your face, take note.

Take note yourself Malaysia dosen't want them.

[mrtoad]

Barisan Revolusi Nasional means National Revolutionary Front. There is no reference to Islam, so how did you manage to blame religion for this conflict for all these years, and continue to do so in this thread? Doesn't the 'National' indicate that they fight the Thais because their are Malays, not Muslims? It's staring right in your face, take note.

Take note yourself Malaysia dosen't want them.

Absolutely spot on, Malaysia has enough of its own stuff to sort without taking on the southern provinces.

[simple1]

@hellodolly: Your post#20. Usual BS personal attacks from you, where in my comments have I defended atrocities by the insurgents or regurgitate historical atrocities by Thai security agencies.

If you don't agree with me that's OK, but do not post post lies about me. Just as a reminder previous personal attacks by you have been deleted by the Mods

Edited June 19, 2013 by simple1