The Ashes Tour 2013

[BookMan]

Huge news hereabout the DRS!

Australia and England face claims of DRS cheating

Australia and England are reportedly under investigation by the ICC over allegations their batsmen are using silicone tape on their bats to beat the decision review system.

In the latest umpiring controversy this series, concerns were raised after Kevin Pietersen's dismissal in the final innings of the third Test where the batsman unsuccessfully tried to have a decision overturned by the video umpire.

The attempt failed despite the infrared Hot Spot technology not recording an edge, though sound detectors picked up a clear noise as the ball passed the bat.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-07/icc-reportedly-probing-hot-spot-evasion-tactics/4872072?section=sport

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/australia-and-england-face-claims-of-drs-cheating-20130807-2rgll.html

Edited August 7, 2013 by BookMan

[BookMan]

Almost farcical really.

If either teams or any players from either teams have been cheating they should be banned for a good amount of time..2 years minimum.

Of course if the ICC was serious about catching players surely it would wait until the next test match and inspect the bats of the players? hard to imagine any player volunteering their test match bat for inspection once the match has finished. They all carry a swag full of bats anyway

[BookMan]

Even the Aussies looking on this series as a warm up for the real series beginning in November!

I like your optimism here 7by7.

Ill tell you after the fifth test whether I share it or not

[7by7]

I remember seeing a shot of the English balcony at Lords and KP sitting on it apparently wrapping something around his bat.

But if he was cheating in some way, surely he wouldn't be doing it in full view of the TV cameras?

I think this is a case of the ICC getting in their excuses first.

Ashes 2013: ICC to discuss DRS with England and Australia

[theblether]

Can someone point out to that guy that it's pathetic resorting to childish insults.

Almost as pathetic as believing that Australia would not have loved to have won the Ashes back on English soil.

When it comes to the Ashes, there are no warm ups.

Anyone that knows about cricket knows that.

[7by7]

From yesterday's Telegraph.

Ashes 2013: Hot Spot problems to be discussed by International Cricket Council

The future of Hot Spot will be discussed by the International Cricket Council next month with the possibility it could be phased out before the next Ashes series...........

Warren Brennan, the inventor of Hotspot, told Telegraph Sport last week that it sometimes fails to detect faint edges off fast bowlers..........

[7by7]

Blether; show me where I said that the Aussies would not have loved to win the Ashes back on English soil.

BookMan knew what I meant, but then he knows and loves cricket.

You seem to have belatedly joined this topic merely to troll and flame.

I will not indulge you any further in your aim.

[Will27]

An outstanding result.

The reason why Clarke didn't declare on 300 is because he's now fearful of the English. In his mind, and the mind of his management colleagues, they could see Root, Bell, or Pieterson strolling out on Monday and cracking out 140. This played with their heads.

10 years ago they would have declared at 250 and been confident of winning. England drew this test because they have put doubt into the minds of the Australians. That's all part of the psyche of team sports, and test cricket.

Just as much as the weather is part of test cricket. So stop moaning and celebrate the result.

Oh, and be embarrassed that it's a Scotsman that's having to point out the nuances of the game to you.

You keep harping on about Clarke's captaincy but I don't get it.

Are you saying he should've declared the 2nd innings when they were 300 in front?

If so, he declared at 332 in front so at the run rate they were going at, it would've been

about 30 minutes earlier.

Due to rain, England only got to face 20 overs so I cannot see how his captaincy had any

effect on the result of the game. I've been critical of Clarke when I think it was justified, but

in this case I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

We were never going to bowl England out after losing a days play.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Will27

[theblether]

He had to win, he should have erred on the side of winning.

The only way he was going to win was by bowling England out. The best way to bowl England out was to maximize the amount of overs he had to get at them.

He denied his bowlers a decent crack at England on Sunday because he was terrified of losing.

There was only one result available to him, and that was victory. He should have declared at 280 / 290 and went for it.

If he had stood on the steps on Sunday night ( especially if he had knocked over a couple of wickets on Sunday ) and declared that it was victory or bust he would have been applauded by everyone.

However he effed it up because he didn't have the bottle to let his bowlers loose early enough. He lost this series by his own decisions at the weekend.

Poor, poor captaincy.

Edited August 7, 2013 by theblether

[Will27]

He had to win, he should have erred on the side of winning.

The only way he was going to win was by bowling England out. The best way to bowl England out was to maximize the amount of overs he had to get at them.

He denied his bowlers a decent crack at England on Sunday because he was terrified of losing.

There was only one result available to him, and that was victory. He should have declared at 280 / 290 and went for it.

If he had stood on the steps on Sunday night ( especially if he had knocked over a couple of wickets on Sunday ) and declared that it was victory or bust he would have been applauded by everyone.

However he effed it up because he didn't have the bottle to let his bowlers loose early enough. He lost this series by his own decisions at the weekend.

Poor, poor captaincy.

I'm not sure if you actually followed the game because your maths do not make any sense.

And hour and a half was lost on day 4 due to bad light also. So even if he declared when Aus were

280 in front, there was only another 7 overs bowled for the day due to the light.

So going by your calculations, they would've had to bowl England out in 37 overs. Never going to happen.

There wasn't nearly enough time to bowl out England a second time.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree but I don't remember seeing one article saying poor captaincy

cost us a chance.

[7by7]

I remember seeing a shot of the English balcony at Lords and KP sitting on it apparently wrapping something around his bat.

But if he was cheating in some way, surely he wouldn't be doing it in full view of the TV cameras?

I think this is a case of the ICC getting in their excuses first.

Ashes 2013: ICC to discuss DRS with England and Australia

Kevin Pietersen infuriated by Ashes cheat claims

"If I nick it, I'll walk," England batsman Pietersen, 33, said on Twitter.

not sure I believe that, but he goes on

"How stupid would I be to try to hide a nick when it could save me on an LBW appeal, like in 1st innings where Hot Spot showed I nicked it."

Quite.

Also Clarke goes into bat for his players over Hot Spot claim

Clarke said many batsmen had casing over their bats, often made of fibre-glass, to protect it but that he had never heard of anyone applying silicone tape to evade HotSpot. "Because the bats are so nicely pressed and a little bit soft, generally you put an Extratec cover over the top of the bat which protects the bat, makes it last longer.''

Maybe the best thing for the series, and the game in general, would be for Cook and Clarke to agree not to use the DRS for the two remaining games?

Edited August 7, 2013 by 7by7

[theblether]

I followed the game.

He knew the weather forecast, he knew it was likely that the overs would have been limited.

All the more reason for having a crack at England early.

The only maths that mattered were he needed 10 England wickets, he should have had a go at them.

Bad captaincy.

[BookMan]

 

Maybe the best thing for the series, and the game in general, would be for Cook and Clarke to agree not to use the DRS for the two remaining games?

DRS is not the problem.

If indeed players are trying to cheat that is an issue.

Expect the ICC to try their hardest to find no evidence. Good news for the players they are incompetent.

[7by7]

I agree that DRS by itself is not the problem.

But the way it has been operated in this series is a problem; and I don't mean by the teams.

I find it hard to believe that any batsman on either side would deliberately cheat in the manner of these allegations and this is a storm in a tea cup; such as the allegations of ball tampering thrown at England during the Champions Trophy; even though no official reports were made nor action taken.

Not that such things never happen. For example; Atherton with the dirt in his pocket, and was it Imran who after retirement from the game admitted to sometimes keeping a bottle top in his pocket which he used to rough up one side of the ball; claiming that many other bowlers did the same?

[BookMan]

I find it hard to believe that any batsman on either side would deliberately cheat in the manner of these allegations and this is a storm in a tea cup; such as the allegations of ball tampering thrown at England during the Champions Trophy; even though no official reports were made nor action taken.

I can believe that a player or two from either side would try the tape if they thought they could get away with it. Lot of prestige gained for playing for your country. Not to mention the money.

Look at Hansie Cronje. Hero of a nation who turned out to be a cheat

[BookMan]

The Ashes 2013: England's Kevin Pietersen furious over 'cheat' claims made by Channel Nine in Australia Hot Spot could be turning rapidly into hot water for some after lawyers representing the England and Wales Cricket Board demanded an apology and explanation from Australia’s Channel Nine following reports that Kevin Pietersen had used silicone to fool the controversial technology in the last Test.

A spokesman for the ECB yesterday confirmed that the request had been made, the latest controversy to sour Anglo-Australia relations during this Ashes series. Earlier, Pietersen had angrily denied the reports tweeting: “Horrible journalism yet again. My name brought up in Hotspot crisis suggesting I use silicone to prevent nicks showing. Such hurtful lies

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/theashes/10229610/The-Ashes-2013-Englands-Kevin-Pietersen-furious-over-cheat-claims-made-by-Channel-Nine-in-Australia.html

[BookMan]

Talk about pissing away your career...

Monty Panesar's England career on the line after cricketer fined for urinating on bouncers Monty Panesar’s international career is on the line as England seek an explanation for his behaviour outside a Brighton nightclub which led to a police fine.

Panesar accepted a fixed-penalty notice from police after urinating on nightclub bouncers at 4am on Monday.

The incident happened after the 31-year-old spinner was thrown out of the Shoosh Club in Brighton following complaints from a group of women about his behaviour

See Full Article Here

[Will27]

I followed the game.

He knew the weather forecast, he knew it was likely that the overs would have been limited.

All the more reason for having a crack at England early.

The only maths that mattered were he needed 10 England wickets, he should have had a go at them.

Bad captaincy.

He did, but ran out of time

[theblether]

I followed the game.

He knew the weather forecast, he knew it was likely that the overs would have been limited.

All the more reason for having a crack at England early.

The only maths that mattered were he needed 10 England wickets, he should have had a go at them.

Bad captaincy.

He did, but ran out of time

He didn't, he wasted time because his bottle crashed. Fear of defeat stopped him from going for an essential victory.

He hadn't even declared at 331 ahead. He's what we call in Scotland, a big fearty cat.

Anyway, it's all over now. Bring on the next series.

Edited August 8, 2013 by theblether

[Bangkokhatter]

Blether maybe you should read again your condescending thread, all about a bloke talking nonsense. No poster on here, nor any of the so called expert pundits have criticised Clarke's captaincy in the last test. As for nobody having an interest in the following 2 tests, again absolute nonsense. As 7x7 posted, both teams will want to put a marker down for the next series and whichever team wins will carry that momentum forward.

Maybe a Scotsmen trying to explain the nuances of the game is not such a good idea after all.

[theblether]

The series is lost, it's all over. Huff and puff all you like. The next two tests are show matches.

Incidentally like you guys I've followed cricket since boyhood, a short playing career of three years, 37 years of watching it. Give it a by with the stupid comments about Scots, there are plenty of Scottish cricket fans and virtually all of us support England.

Sorry to burst your ill founded "caber tossing, what do we know" puerile crap.

[cardholder]

The series is lost, it's all over. Huff and puff all you like. The next two tests are show matches.

Incidentally like you guys I've followed cricket since boyhood, a short playing career of three years, 37 years of watching it. Give it a by with the stupid comments about Scots, there are plenty of Scottish cricket fans and virtually all of us support England.

Sorry to burst your ill founded "caber tossing, what do we know" puerile crap.

I just hate it when someone destroys my ingrained prejudices and stereotypical views !

[theblether]

Quite right Cardholder

I don't know any Scottish cricket fan that supports anyone but England.

Anyway I'm away to a Temple retreat for a few days so forgive my silence if I don't reply. Here's my final word on the last test.

Reverse the roles, and the Australians would have been doing a Conga round the ground.

The English? So sorry old chap, the weather saved us, we're embarrassed to have retained the Ashes in such circumstances.

Jezuz sufferin'

[BookMan]

Two famous Scots who played for England.

Douglas Jardine...of bodyline fame and fromer England Captain

Mike Denness - Former England Captain

For Australia.

Archie Jackson is the most famous. He died at 23 from Tuberculosis in 1933

[smokie36]

Well....tb has got this one spectacularly wrong.

The next two. matches will be keenly fought and I am thoroughly looking forward to them!

One point about the Ashes is I believe it should be on terrestrial TV in the UK as exposure is limited through paid subscription. The game needs as many people as possible enjoying and taking a passion for it....especially kids.

On to the third test and Clarke really had no choice....if he had declared 250 up with four sessions remaining and no rain had come then a good chance England would have made a buffoon of him.

Rain was the major factor in the end...as it has been in many Ashes tests over the decades.

[7by7]

Clarke maybe should have declared the second innings a little earlier, but not when only 250 ahead; that would have been too reachable target with 4 sessions still to play; which there would have been if the weather hadn't intervened.

But in hindsight I think his mistake was in declaring the first innings too soon. Maybe batted for another hour, or even to the close, and posted a follow on target England had little chance of reaching.

But he did what he, or he and Lehmann, thought was the right thing. Had the weather not intervened, Australia would almost certainly have won; barring an epic defensive innings from two English batsmen, which didn't seem likely given their performance in what little play was possible on Monday morning.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

To say, though, that Clarke bottled it is absolute nonsense.

As is saying the last two games of this series don't matter.

Edited August 8, 2013 by 7by7

[7by7]

I find it hard to believe that any batsman on either side would deliberately cheat in the manner of these allegations and this is a storm in a tea cup; such as the allegations of ball tampering thrown at England during the Champions Trophy; even though no official reports were made nor action taken.

I can believe that a player or two from either side would try the tape if they thought they could get away with it. Lot of prestige gained for playing for your country. Not to mention the money.

Look at Hansie Cronje. Hero of a nation who turned out to be a cheat

A good point, though Cronje cheated because he was in the pay of Asian bookmakers.

I am not so naïve as to believe that a player would never cheat to give him or his side an unfair advantage, and I gave two possible examples of well known players who may have done.

However, the key point in my post is that I find it hard to believe that any batsman on either side would deliberately cheat in the manner of these allegations.

The reason being, as KP has said, that such an action would be detrimental in any review of an lbw decision where the batsman thought he had nicked the ball before it hit his pads.

Although in the three tests so far there have been 26 caught behinds and 17 lbws. But the batsmen have no way of knowing in advance that it would pan out that way. In the West Indies v Pakistan test at Providence in May 2011, 20 of the 40 wickets to fall were lbws (source). (I can't find a similar record for caught behind, only for most catches in a match.)

As we have seen, hot spot is not reliable and during these tests the third umpire has taken a definite mark as evidence of a nick, but where there hasn't been one he has looked for other evidence such as a noise or some deviation of the ball; as in KP's dismissal on Monday.

[David48]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

Ain't that the truth.

In Life ..

In Love ...

In Business ...

In Cricket ...

All the passions ...

.

[tw25rw]

I followed the game.

He knew the weather forecast, he knew it was likely that the overs would have been limited.

All the more reason for having a crack at England early.

The only maths that mattered were he needed 10 England wickets, he should have had a go at them.

Bad captaincy.

He did, but ran out of time:coffee1:

Exactly. It was all set up to be an exciting last day, but the weather ruined it.

[7by7]

It seems that even if the allegations over the use of silicone tape are true, it's not against the rules.

Kevin Pietersen: ECB wants apology over bat cheating claims

The England and Wales Cricket Board has requested an apology from Channel Nine over allegations that Kevin Pietersen "cheated" during the Ashes............

Both teams will meet with International Cricket Council general manager Geoff Allardice before the fourth Test at Chester-le-Street, which starts on Friday.

But the governing body insisted those involved will discuss the controversial decision review system rather than the alleged use of silicone tape on bats, which is within the laws of the game.

"These media reports are totally incorrect," said ICC chief executive Dave Richardson...........

Former England seamer Matthew Hoggard criticised the claims, telling BBC Sport: "You can't just accuse one person of cheating.

"It's not even against the rules. You're allowed to put silicone tape on you bat if you want to, but I don't think the batters are."..........